Sterno

12:17 p.m. on February 13, 2012 (EST)
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One of the guys I am taking on a backpacking trip informed me yesterday that his stove of choice is going to be a can of Sterno.

 

Will a can of Sterno boil a quart of water and if so, how long does that take?

12:44 p.m. on February 13, 2012 (EST)
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Sterno works.  It takes a while.  I recall that boil times in the order of 14 minutes in cold weather are ordinary.  It's quite subject to wind too, and wind screen is a must.  I would seal it carefully too, they sometimes leak.

Again - not my first, or second choice for backpacking, but I have used them in a pinch before and they do work!

12:50 p.m. on February 13, 2012 (EST)
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yea, I'm trying to convince the guy to make an effort to get a fuel can for my camping gaz stove and take it instead of the Sterno.

But...I remember my 1st camping trip...didn't learn anything until I discovered that everything I knew was wrong.

12:55 p.m. on February 13, 2012 (EST)
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Ed, as soon as I saw this I went into my man cave and dug this out.

Asstd-010.jpg

I was... well have been planning on experimenting with it. I am curious as to whether or not I could also burn alcohol in it as well. 

I forgot all about it until this thread lol. 

Its been in the man cave for years.

As long as the batting doesn't burn up(which I wouldn't think it would) I don't see a reason why this wouldn't work well as an alchy stove. 

1:20 p.m. on February 13, 2012 (EST)
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Ed G said:

.didn't learn anything until I discovered that everything I knew was wrong.

 Great statement, Ed! And good for you that you made this discovery while young.

Unfortunately too many people make this discovery way too late.

1:24 p.m. on February 13, 2012 (EST)
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Bill S said:

Unfortunately too many people make this discovery way too late.

So I suppose trying to burn Oxyacetylene in my sterno might not be the best idea? 

I was thinking that it would "speed up" my boil times. :)

2:27 p.m. on February 13, 2012 (EST)
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I'm surprised somebody has come up with a stove using calcium carbide like the old carbide lamps.  I would imagine with the correct burner it wouldn't be too sooty.

10:08 p.m. on February 14, 2012 (EST)
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I tried using sterno years ago for car camping. I had an old Coleman liquid 2 burner stove box that had been gutted of its burners. It still had the rack so it made a good carring case for the kitchen pots and pans and utensils. Tossed in a couple of cans of sterno for the heat source. After a 3 week camping/roadtrip hears what i learned.

Sterno will take forever to cook with! Works great for keeping things warm but thats about it.  The cans would leak once seal had been broke so always had to clean things up before trying to cook or the whole kit was gonna become one big stove. Returned from trip, went straight to store and bought a Coleman 2 burner propane that has never let me down and has been beaten and abused in the back of my trucks ever since. That was 1994.

I guess long story short..... tell your buddy to ditch the sterno idea! He'll regret not chosing something different. Leaking sterno in the pack would be a bad bad thing.  Anything, propane, alchy, wood, burning old socks will better. IMHO

11:48 p.m. on February 14, 2012 (EST)
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Rick-Pittsburgh said:

Ed, as soon as I saw this I went into my man cave and dug this out.

Asstd-010.jpg

I was... well have been planning on experimenting with it. I am curious as to whether or not I could also burn alcohol in it as well. 

I forgot all about it until this thread lol. 

Its been in the man cave for years.

As long as the batting doesn't burn up(which I wouldn't think it would) I don't see a reason why this wouldn't work well as an alchy stove. 

 As a matter of fact it works great as an alchy stove. I've burned Methyl Hydrate in it and it worked like a charm. Only one thing to consider though. The flame it produces once it warms up is, well, to say the least, LARGE. Never an out-of-control flame, just BIG. (Even with the side ports closed.) 

So, yup, it works fine. And now I'm gonna have to go and see how long it takes to boil two cups of cold water. Dang you!  ;-)

Cheers! 

12:05 a.m. on February 15, 2012 (EST)
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Well I wasn't planning on staying up this late but a little over an hour ago I put a quart of water in my 1.5 litre pot and set it over a sterno flame.  30 minutes went buy with just a few bubbles on the bottom.  I dumped it out, remade the stand/windscreen I was using so the pot was closer to the flame and started again with a pint of water this time.  12 minutes later still no boil.  I wasn't going to waste anymore time and dumped that out too.  

Suggestion,

Make him a cat stove and give it to him when hes cursing his sterno idea out on the trail.  

G'nite

12:38 a.m. on February 15, 2012 (EST)
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TJCeeJay said:

 As a matter of fact it works great as an alchy stove. I've burned Methyl Hydrate in it and it worked like a charm. Only one thing to consider though. The flame it produces once it warms up is, well, to say the least, LARGE. Never an out-of-control flame, just BIG. (Even with the side ports closed.) 

Thanks for the heads up on that. I was thinking it would work but I was just not sure how well. 

And now I'm gonna have to go and see how long it takes to boil two cups of cold water. Dang you!  ;-)

Cheers! 

Hey anything I can do to help. :)

5:18 a.m. on February 15, 2012 (EST)
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MoZee  (great moniker by the way)...

 

thanks for running the test! 

 Us backpackers are a strange bunch aren't we - finding entertainment in watching water boil :)

 

"Suggestion,

Make him a cat stove and give it to him when hes cursing his sterno idea out on the trail. "

 

I gave these guys all the suggestions they are gonna get untill we actually hit the trail.

 

 One guy wants to heat up surplus store MRE's with his sterno stove, so if he hasn't gotten a fuel can for my Gaz stove and he runs into a problem with his sterno - he can eat it cold.

The other guy won't borrow my old Vasque Clarion GTX boots cause he thinks his Red Wing work boots will be just fine.

Should be an interesting trip.

I've purchased mole skin.

7:02 a.m. on February 15, 2012 (EST)
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Ed,

Where are you going hiking?

7:43 a.m. on February 15, 2012 (EST)
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Cumberland Island National Seashore

 

30 miles above Jax

 

Mar 8 thru Mar 10

Leaving St Mary's 9:00 am ferry returning 4:45 Pm ferry.

 

If you get a reservation, your welcome to come along!

Could be very interesting...Imagine the entertainment if I have to get these guys wading thru a swamp at night

3:14 a.m. on February 16, 2012 (EST)
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Ed G said:

..Could be very interesting...Imagine the entertainment if I have to get these guys wading thru a swamp at night

 

On the other hand it could be a frustrating experience.  The more you describe these boys the more misgivings I have.  At some level I am inclined to recommend you find others to join you.  My experience with folks who ignore very basic advice is they are walking opportunities for the kind of mishaps that are often amusing in the back country, but also often ruin a trip when you have to bug out because they didn’t bring enough warm gear, burned down their tent, got severe blisters, the list is endless.  Let them learn car camping before you waste your efforts with a couple of yahoos out yonder.

Ed

5:25 a.m. on February 16, 2012 (EST)
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Good point Ed.

I had originally passed a message on to the sterno guy (whom I have never met - he is a coworker of my Red Wing friend) that he could borrow my stove if HE obtains a fuel can for it.

Might be worth saving the trip if I just go ahead and give him one of my fuel cans.  What's $10 compared to a lost day in the woods.

 

I do have an adapter for the Gaz stove to convert it to any screw type fuel can (like the thread on a jetboil fuel can).

Does walmart or Target sell this type of fuel (coleman or similiar)?  I live about 50 miles from the nearest "camping store".

 

The Red Wing guy - he is my marathon running partner and I would think (and hope) that he knows his feet.  I'll use the scare tactic of big blisters and being 10 miles from camp.  Could very well happen...happened to me once!

 

7:06 a.m. on February 16, 2012 (EST)
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Walmart sells Coleman in the standard screw top.  I don't know of a local area store that sells Gaz.

12:49 a.m. on March 16, 2012 (EDT)
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I've used esbit tabs for several years now...they boil water in a few minutes....

1:51 a.m. on March 16, 2012 (EDT)
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Ed G -Not sure about Target' but I do know Wally World carries white gas. I just picked up a new can not so long ago. Coleman brand. I'm too lazy to get out of bed and look at it to tell ya the exact name.

Must be those Pittsburgh style wings... Or Primati's sandwiches. Or "Arn Cities." ;)

5:40 a.m. on March 16, 2012 (EDT)
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Rick - I'm not a fan of Primati's.  Give me an Italian Hoagie from Danny's Parkview Pizza anyday (Route 88 in Bethel).

They actually sell Iron City down here. All the "Steelers bars" have it. At $5 a bottle, it's still bad.

Went on the trip last weekend with the newbies. All went well and there are now 2 more backpackers in this world.

The Sterno thing went well.  I was never told that the guy using it is a Marine, and he new damn well what he was doing.

He had a cool little fold up grill that the sterno can fit inside, and he had boiling water in about 6 minutes.

 

No swamp wading. I have never seen the island so dry. Very easy to spot the Momma gators with their hatchlings.

11:11 a.m. on March 16, 2012 (EDT)
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When I used to hike the Grand Canyon in the winter I used Sterno to warm my tent in the morning. It will boil water, but as others have said it takes a while. Its mainly used in food service banquets to keep hot foods hot or at least warm.

12:08 p.m. on March 16, 2012 (EDT)
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Well, the Marine proved us all wrong.

As I mentioned above, he had water boiling in about 6 minutes.

 

Maybe it was the military issued cup he had the water in.

He also had a really cool poncho. Made of coated tent material. Big enough to do anything with - including sleep under it.

2:02 p.m. on March 16, 2012 (EDT)
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Glad you had a great trip Ed!

I guess sterno can work well, if you know it’s limitations and work within them ( I guess the same can be said for everything though…)

When I was a kid I loved my sterno stove. It was a little golden anodized aluminum thing that folded flat, weighed about ten ounces ( “That’s under a pound, next to nothing!”  ) and was priced right for a poor boy scout.

The only trouble with it was it sucked as a stove.

The problem with the Sterno can of solidified alcohol is that the flame is starved for oxygen. They burn very slowly with low heat output. Great for simmering and not much else.

My standard tactic when using my sterno stove was to wake up at dawn, light the stove and place a quart pot of water on it ( which I’d set up  right next to me before going to sleep ). I did this without getting out of my sleeping bag, and then I’d go right back to sleep for half an hour. Or a full hour.

Then I’d get up and drink my hot tea, and go cook breakfast over an open fire! Sometimes I put eggs in the water and had hard boiled eggs with my tea, and now and then I boiled a hot dog over it or heated a can of beans.

So it wasn’t the most useful bit of kit, but I did keep on using it right through my college days. I simply couldn’t afford anything else.

4:26 p.m. on March 16, 2012 (EDT)
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Hey Ed G,

I think it's great that you had a good time with your back packing newbie’s, though I would think that the marine you went out with has had some limited amount of outdoor experience in both training and maybe his service. I think it's great that you willing take out new people and realizing that they have limited to no experiences and in fact have preconceived notions of how things will work when in the outback. It was good that you started out with what appears to be a 2 nighter and what appears to be a reasonably easy outing. It would be really hard to starve to death or get so dehydrated on a two day trip as to become life threatening especially with at least one person such as yourself that is educated in backpacking.

I think it's also hilariously funny that all of the nay sayers regarding Sterno were wrong, at least this time. For everyone that said that won't work or you should make him use another stove or you should bring another stove for him when his Sterno did not work, looks like it did work. I also found it funny that no one thought that if his Sterno did not work then he could maybe use your stove thereby starting to become more familiar with backpacking stoves. Heck I guess even all of the old timers with all of their wisdom can learn a thing or two once in a while. Shure the expensive stoves are quicker to cook and boil water and sure there are more extreme climbs and circumstances where it might very well be a good idea to bring something to cook with other than Sterno but to just dismiss it out of hand because you can own and should use a expensive stove seems bordering on snobbery, which even I must fight against sometimes. Seems we can all learn something when we least expect it.

 

Besides the weight savings that Sterno can provide the savings as far as money is astounding.

Here is the Sterno fold up stand that I bought for $2.99
DSC05345.jpg

 


 


I got the three pack of fuel for $1.99DSC05343.jpg

 

5:23 p.m. on March 16, 2012 (EDT)
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Ed, what is the attraction of Sterno? If you want to use alcohol, why not make a soda can stove instead? There are dozens of designs online or you can even buy one ready made (Trangia is a well-known commercial alcohol stove) off of eBay or homemade gear sites. A guy named Jason Klass has several designs on his website. Just search for his name and his sites pop up. He has several.

I've made a couple of these stoves and depending on the design, they can be extremely simple, requiring nothing more than an empty soda can and basic hand tools- a utility knife, scissors and a small punch or needle. They are the "go-to" stove of UL hikers. Alcohol is readily available and easy to carry. They will work down to about 10F or so before they don't function all that well, according to those who use them regularly.

You can find plenty of instructional videos and demos on YouTube. You can make one in about ten minutes if you have all the tools at hand and are even remotely handy with them.

As far as the "naysayers" of Sterno are concerned, anything flammable will eventually boil water, but there are far better ways to do so than a Sterno stove, which btw, compared to an alcohol stove made from a soda can isn't all that light.

6:54 p.m. on March 16, 2012 (EDT)
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Tom D said:

Ed, what is the attraction of Sterno? If you want to use alcohol, why not make a soda can stove instead? There are dozens of designs online or you can even buy one ready made (Trangia is a well-known commercial alcohol stove) off of eBay or homemade gear sites. A guy named Jason Klass has several designs on his website. Just search for his name and his sites pop up. He has several.

I've made a couple of these stoves and depending on the design, they can be extremely simple, requiring nothing more than an empty soda can and basic hand tools- a utility knife, scissors and a small punch or needle. They are the "go-to" stove of UL hikers. Alcohol is readily available and easy to carry. They will work down to about 10F or so before they don't function all that well, according to those who use them regularly.

You can find plenty of instructional videos and demos on YouTube. You can make one in about ten minutes if you have all the tools at hand and are even remotely handy with them.

As far as the "naysayers" of Sterno are concerned, anything flammable will eventually boil water, but there are far better ways to do so than a Sterno stove, which btw, compared to an alcohol stove made from a soda can isn't all that light.

Hey Tom, Your post was maybe directed at me. No particular attraction to

Hey Tom, Your post was maybe directed at me. No particular attraction to Sterno except that it's easy to use, easy to carry assuming you can find a way to not let those silly little cans leak, I would guess one could go to the paints store and get the pint cans that will seal. When on a hike it seams that it would be a lot easier to use than pump up stoves with fuel bottles and even caring canister stoves. One can make alky stoves, but that takes work, esp if you want one that can comfortable support a pot of water or food. One can make one out of a soda can but I'm not putting a pot of water on it if I don't it'll be reasonably steady. I suppose that if I was going out for weeks on end or a long trip I most likely would not use Sterno but for the day hike or the short trip in good weather I find that a reasonable option and maybe fust flat out fun to use. One must remember that I have always live out west and have not much experience with stoves as every where I camp I’m allowed to have a camp fire. As I already have plenty of stoves. I just can't keep buying things with the only rational that it is cheap. That's what our economy is built on. The fact that every thing is cheap so I should just keep buying does not make sense to me. I'm not saying that anyone should or should not use Sterno but I though it quite cool that Ed's Marine buddy made it work when there was so much poo pooing it. Esp. since I got my Sterno set up for under $5. And even if some of us still find reasons not to use Sterno, it is still a cheap if not as efficient option amongst a number of others.

10:46 p.m. on March 16, 2012 (EDT)
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Apeman, right, I was thinking it was Ed who was all enamored with Sterno. My mistake. I couldn't care less what other people use, just wanted to point out other alternatives that I think work far better under most circumstances.

7:08 a.m. on March 17, 2012 (EDT)
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yes, one should read a post carefully before responding.

I hate sterno and I do not like any type of liguid fueled stoves.

I'm strictly a Jetboil guy and even when I'm car camping I'll use a small Bluett Camping Gaz stove with a 470 canister.

 

I actually had the Bluett stove in the car for the one guy to take, but when I found out he is a Marine (infantry) with plenty of experience heating MRE's with Sterno, I did not want to insult him in any way by pressing the issue.

 

"It would be really hard to starve to death or get so dehydrated on a two day trip as to become life threatening "

 

LOL. Tell that to to the guys I went with.  on the 2nd day we ended up doing a 16 mile day hike. They insisted on going up to see the church where JFK Jr got married.

Temps reached an unexpected 80+ degrees with bright sun. Had to stop and filter up some drinking water less than 1/2 way thru the hike.

 It was dark and we still had not reached the turn around point.

Last 4 miles were hiking on the beach in soft sand (under a very big and bright full moon), and the extremely high tide had us trapped against a dune wall.

Longest 4 mile trek I have ever done. 

I thought it was a blast, but when we finally made it back to camp, one of the guys was obviously suffering from not drinking enough.  His fault.

Couple of glasses of salt water and he was fine.

7:40 p.m. on March 17, 2012 (EDT)
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I think the point that Brian is making is that gear in the hands of one might not be the same as someone that uses that gear all the time. In this case a pair of red wings, and a sterno stove. Both guys seemed to be fine with what they have. There is a learning curve. But if one has something that works for them we should not poh poo them for having that gear. There are times we should learn just how they used it to make it work when we thought it would fail. Personaly I'm kinda fasinated just how he got a boil in 6 minutes. Thats impresive.

12:54 p.m. on March 18, 2012 (EDT)
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guy didn't do anything special to get his water boiling in 6 minutes.

 

Just lit his Sterno and slid it into his little folding stove.

 

BUT.....he wasn't boiling a quart of water at once. He was just boiling water in one of those metal "butterfly style" cups you see the military and Bear Grylls use.

 

http://www.bestglide.com/military_canteen_cup.html

8:10 a.m. on March 27, 2012 (EDT)
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 Well, I said that I was gonna have to test the boil time with the methyl hydrate. 

And the verdict is in; 1 cup of cold water boiled in 6 minutes.


DSCF4157.jpg


DSCF4164.jpg


DSCF4167.jpg

I was never able to get even one cup boiling on top of the "Sterno" type fuel. I just had a generic "Jellied Cooking fuel" so that's what I used. True Sterno may be hotter, I don't know.


DSCF4169.jpg


DSCF4172.jpg

Pretty wimpy flame compared to the alcohol stove. Anyhoo, unless actual Sterno is hotter than the jellied fuel that I had, I can't see myself ever using it. 

...The alcohol stove on the other hand, I could see myself using to heat up some water for a hot chocolate or tea while on a day hike.

Righty then, that's all folks!

Later.

Cory





12:06 p.m. on March 27, 2012 (EDT)
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the stove the Marine had put the cup closer to the flame than illustrated in the above photos

8:32 p.m. on March 30, 2012 (EDT)
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You want to get the old, pre-1963 Sterno. The percentage of Ethanol was 71% and Methanol only 3.5%. That was drinkable. So, you could drink one can - squeeze it through a sock to get the juice - while waiting for the other can to heat your water.

Don't consume modern Sterno. They boosted the Methanol to 54% without telling anyone. In one week in Dec. 1963, thirty-one people died from Methanol poisoning in Philly due to the "new" Sterno.

Just one of those little factoids to remember as you sit by the stove, sipping your Sterno. :)

P.S. - I sometimes wish my backpacking days had omitted certain hard-won knowledge; for example the smell of Thunderbird wine in the morning, wafting from a few gentlemen of the road.

9:13 p.m. on March 30, 2012 (EDT)
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overmywaders said:

You want to get the old, pre-1963 Sterno. The percentage of Ethanol was 71% and Methanol only 3.5%. That was drinkable. So, you could drink one can - squeeze it through a sock to get the juice - while waiting for the other can to heat your water.

Don't consume modern Sterno. They boosted the Methanol to 54% without telling anyone. In one week in Dec. 1963, thirty-one people died from Methanol poisoning in Philly due to the "new" Sterno.

Just one of those little factoids to remember as you sit by the stove, sipping your Sterno. :)

P.S. - I sometimes wish my backpacking days had omitted certain hard-won knowledge; for example the smell of Thunderbird wine in the morning, wafting from a few gentlemen of the road.

 I so do sometimes miss the days of yore..................................

10:59 p.m. on March 30, 2012 (EDT)
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I know what you are thinking, apeman. "Did Overmywaders really know people who could afford Thunderbird?"

Thunderbird, despite what you may have heard, was not a pretentious fortified wine, although perhaps a bit overbearing and known to stagger or cause same. It was a superb Gallo (gallows?) vintage. The fine bouquet (pronounced "bucket") was best experienced from a distance of thirty meters or more. At $1.25 a jug, it was suitable for any dinner or celebratory occasion, such as making bail, and could accompany either meat or fish; depending entirely upon the scraps found behind the restaurant that evening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xY7mBQrzXU

Some of the finest backcountry can be found along the railroad tracks.

11:05 p.m. on March 30, 2012 (EDT)
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Thunderbird wine has an unusual taste...

Sort of like freshly prepped carp. Ya nail it to a board, cook it over a tire fire, rip said carp off of the board, and eat the board.

Yum, yum, yum...

5:15 a.m. on March 31, 2012 (EDT)
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Thundaburp is a fasteningnating prooooooduct.  Reminds me of the good ole days I couldn't remember the next day...

Eyes doo believe Tonofbeard inspirer’d the child p-p-proofed medicine bottles, causin I nevered fingered out how ta remove the cap.  Try as I could, the dang corkscrew did little more than put a hole in the cap.  Then I’z had ta drink the n-tire bottle in one sitting else risk it spilling in me pockets.  I alwaezz ent up cut’n m-lip on tha rezultin bur.  Why they wanted ta torment poor folk like tat is b-yond me.

 Lotz zove peoples like ta put downe Thudabyrd, sayin they used lousy grapes.  Buts I have it on insides knowledge they don’t usin any grapes attall, that actually furmented leftovers Tanksggivin dinner cranburry sauce an turkey gravy is what goes inta Toungedirtbag.  Next time you be sippin, notice the metal tang of dem berries and the smoothness of the gravy grease as it slides down yer throat.

Whilest Thunderturd is plenty fine straight up, it makes fer sum reefereshing mizxed bleverages too.  One-ah m-favorites is sanguria usin the fruit slices recovere’d from the dumpster b-hind the bar.  A ‘nother treet I dizcovured round da fire is Hobo Suc’lickin Pig, made by roastin spam marinated in thumbherthebird over a woodin vegitable crate and cardboard fire.  On special occasions we likes ta spread shredded up Prince Alburt cigar butts over the fire for a special smok’y flaver.

Oh I due d’clair, I thunk weeze has gone plumb off topic, ‘cept sterno ‘n Thumperturd make fer a fine wine flight pair-in;  perfectly matched and gives a good wallop, like saltpeter and pepper on yer tatter skin.  Yesserie!

Hearz looking at you (sideways).

Ed   

7:41 a.m. on March 31, 2012 (EDT)
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Given that I started the thread - and I sort of "own it", I say going off topic when discussing sterno is fair, just and plain 'ole entertaining.

 

Being from the Burgh, I miss Rick's recipe.  It's good comfort food just like mom used to make.

I dream about the days of carp haluski and those big glasses of Mad Dog

11:44 a.m. on April 9, 2012 (EDT)
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Pressurized gas stoves, 3 min/litre of water, at sea level. Longer at colder temperatures.

Alcohol (methyl hydrate) stove 7 min/litre of water, at sea level.

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