What is the difference between bearing and azimiuth?

11:22 a.m. on January 28, 2002 (EST)
30 reviewer rep
1,239 forum posts

Reason I ask....

Saturday night a buddy and I set up a trail placing reflective tacks in trees as breadcrumbs and making waypoints at each tack. Following it back using the GPSR,(I always use the bearing read-out to set a compass since the el-cheapo ETREX GPSR'S arrow doesn't always point in the correct direction until you get moving) I kept telling my buddy we follow a bearing of xxx degrees to get to the next tack. He kept insisting that "bearing" is the wrong term and it is really an azimuth of xxx degrees. Who is correct?

Bill S, I'm sure you will jump in here - so thank you for the info - in advance!

Ed geary
Orlando

4:33 p.m. on January 28, 2002 (EST)
TOP 10 REVIEWER REVIEW CORPS
2,430 reviewer rep
5,326 forum posts
essentially the same, except that...

Bearing is the direction from you to an object (true, magnetic, grid, as you choose, but you must specify which). The usual usage is that the object is close at hand, by comparison to ---

Azimuth is the direction from you to (usually) a celestial object, such as a star (true, magnetic, grid, as you choose, but you must specify which). This is the terminology used in marine and air navigation and surveying. A little complication - azimuth is measured from an arbitrary standard direction, which is usually one of the "north" directions (north point of the horizon to the point that the great circle from the zenith through the star intersects the horizon), but can be from the south point of the horizon or some other "standard" point, such as the heading line of the ship. Actually, bearing can be from south (and used to be in the late 19th century navigation and astronomy books, for reasons too exotic to go into here, but mostly historical), or from a standard defined point. On a ship, bearing and azimuth are often measured with a pelorus, which is lined up with the ship or boat (do you know the difference between a ship or boat?), the difference being bearing for other vessels, shore objects, etc, and azimuth being celestial objects.

Look in Bowditch for a complete discussion (available on-line, the classic navigation reference)

6:20 a.m. on January 29, 2002 (EST)
30 reviewer rep
1,239 forum posts
Ship vs. Boat.....Do YOU know the difference?

First of all, thanks again for the info. It helped shut my buddy up. Now, Ship vs. Boat; some folks think it is the difference in the SIZE of the vessel. In all actuality,it is HOW the vessel travels the water that determines whether it is a ship or boat. A "ship" is a vehicle that navigates the surface waters. Only the bravest of men travel in a submersible vehicle - a "boat".

5:50 p.m. on January 29, 2002 (EST)
37 reviewer rep
747 forum posts
Re: Ship vs. Boat.....wrongo...

wrongo....
Ship - a LAAAAAAAAARGE vessel, esp ocean-going that is driven by engines or has square-rigging on at least three masts along with jibs, staysails, and spanker.

Boat - a vessel for transport by water constructed to provide bouyancy by excluding water. A small vessel carried for use by a larger one. Or a vessel of any size built for use on inland waters.

Quotes from Wbsters unabridged 2001 dictionary.
Jim S
boats are smaller and used inland - ships are self contained vessels for use at sea.


Quote:

First of all, thanks again for the info. It helped shut my buddy up. Now, Ship vs. Boat; some folks think it is the difference in the SIZE of the vessel. In all actuality,it is HOW the vessel travels the water that determines whether it is a ship or boat. A "ship" is a vehicle that navigates the surface waters. Only the bravest of men travel in a submersible vehicle - a "boat".

6:53 a.m. on January 30, 2002 (EST)
30 reviewer rep
1,239 forum posts
Jim, glad you had an opportunity to crack open your dictionary....

but before you go stating that people are wrong, you ought to read the post in it's entirety. It clearly states that "some folks think it is the difference in the SIZE of the vessel".

You are basing your info on an antiquated Webster's definition. A large ocean going vessel is not only driven by engines it is also driven by nuclear propulsion systems and electric motors.

So according to your religious belief in the dictionary, you are doomed to believe that when the U.S. goes to war - the Navy sends out it's nuclear powered battle"things".


I take it you have never been in the Navy or Marines. Anyone who has had an association with the Navy knows that submarines are boats, surface vessels are ships.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my conversation with Bill S. I'm sure he greatly appreciates having someone around to answer his pending correspondence. However, had Bill answered personally, he would have understood that my question to him was in jest. Just as this note is to you - in jest.

Ed geary
Orlando

10:32 a.m. on January 30, 2002 (EST)
37 reviewer rep
747 forum posts
"Jest" - check dictionary....

Quote:

You are basing your info on an antiquated Webster's definition. A large ocean going vessel is not only driven by engines it is also driven by nuclear propulsion systems and electric motors.

lets see here - Engine - " A machine for converting thermal energy into mechanical energy" - yep sounds like a nuke to me - and just where did those electric motors get their electricity? Doesn't a nuke + electric motor = Engine?


Quote:

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my conversation with Bill S. I'm sure he greatly appreciates having someone around to answer his pending correspondence. However, had Bill answered personally, he would have understood that my question to him was in jest. Just as this note is to you - in jest.

But Ed - this is an open forum. If you want to write to Bill alone - you can. Bill and I often "jest" with each other, sometimes on the internet. I'm not answering for him, I merely read off the definitions. No offence intended. (;->)

JEST "a piece of good natured ridicule; taunt; to speak in a playfull humorous way" EVERTHING I say is in jest, but you seem to have an attachment to your idea that you are defending and therefore you are not writing in "jest".

As to why a submarine is an "electric boat" is probably because some old admiral didn't think such a crazy new fangled underwater war "thingy" deserved to be reffered to as a "ship"
Jim (:->)

11:52 a.m. on January 30, 2002 (EST)
30 reviewer rep
1,239 forum posts
Good stuff Jim, you win! (do I jest?)....

The early submarines were small coastal submersible "boats" that the crew couldn't live on for any length of time. The first subs could not cross any sizable body of water. They were hauled up to the deck of a larger ship to be transported across the ocean just like a ships boat! Later on, even after W.W.I, smaller subs had to be towed across an ocean by their tender. Tradition being what it is in the Navy, the term "boat" is still used in reference to a submarine even though modern subs are up to 560 feet in length. "Electric Boat" was coined due to their primary function of quietly running submersed on battery power.

I worked at Electric Boat in Groton, Ct. Plenty of old admirals visited there, especially Hyman G. Rickover "the father of the nuclear navy".

2:58 p.m. on January 30, 2002 (EST)
0 reviewer rep
408 forum posts
...off topic, but interesting!

Quote:

The early submarines were small coastal submersible "boats"

So...I figured I could find out for sure....called a friend at SWFLANT...

Then I strolled down the hall to the Navy office and asked an old submariner. He gave me one of them stern, over the glasses looks and said, "ships are targets".

Boats. Submarines are boats. I think I got it...

Too funny...

Brian in SLC

10:14 a.m. on February 1, 2002 (EST)
(Guest)

a.k.a. Scott, Scott M
Re: ...off topic, but interesting!

"targets".....that's rich comedy...


Quote:

Quote:

The early submarines were small coastal submersible "boats"

So...I figured I could find out for sure....called a friend at SWFLANT...

Then I strolled down the hall to the Navy office and asked an old submariner. He gave me one of them stern, over the glasses looks and said, "ships are targets".

Boats. Submarines are boats. I think I got it...

Too funny...

Brian in SLC

6:19 p.m. on February 3, 2002 (EST)
(Guest)

Re: Ship vs. Boat.....wrongo...

Boat -- You can't afford one.

Ship -- You *really* can't afford one.

6:19 p.m. on February 3, 2002 (EST)
(Guest)

Re: Ship vs. Boat.....wrongo...

Boat -- You can't afford one.

Ship -- You *really* can't afford one.

2:03 p.m. on February 5, 2002 (EST)
TOP 10 REVIEWER REVIEW CORPS
2,430 reviewer rep
5,326 forum posts
Re: Ship vs. Boat.....Do YOU know the difference?

Yup, since my daddy was a sailor (his _ship_ got sunk by a _boat_, U-boat in particular, at the very end of The Great War). So I got well-schooled in the differences.

However, don't tell a Cajun that his pirogue is a "boat" or a "ship", unless you want a "real hard lesson" (learned that from living in the Deep South close to Cajun country)

Just got back from a bit of backcountry ski travel and ice climbing, so I'm not thinking in nautical terms right now.

6:20 a.m. on February 6, 2002 (EST)
30 reviewer rep
1,239 forum posts
Thank You! Glad YOU got the joke! Welcome back. U have been missed. n/m

n/m

9:26 a.m. on February 11, 2002 (EST)
(Guest)

a.k.a. Jim M, Jimbo
Re: Ship vs. Boat.....Do YOU know the difference?

Quote:

First of all, thanks again for the info. It helped shut my buddy up. Now, Ship vs. Boat;

Ahoy!
If the vessel can be lifted aboard another vessel, it is a boat. At least thats the way it was told to me. Truly enjoyed ready the replys on this subject.

12:17 p.m. on February 12, 2002 (EST)
30 reviewer rep
1,239 forum posts
But Jim, a fast attack submarine (688 class) can be lifted ...

onto a floating drydock.

11:42 a.m. on February 15, 2002 (EST)
(Guest)

a.k.a. Jim, Jimbo
Re: But Jim, a fast attack submarine (688 class) can be lifted ...

Quote:

onto a floating drydock.

Ed, have you considered..
The class you mention is not lifted but floated into a flooded sea going drydock and then 'raised' as the drydock
is dewatered. It is not lifted and hence a ship. Anyway, don't all Naval Vessel names including subs begin with USS? :-)
Not to get to far from the form, I bought a Slumberjack
20 deg down bag yesterday. $159 Jim M

11:01 a.m. on February 18, 2002 (EST)
30 reviewer rep
1,239 forum posts
Hmmm, you got a point there. Subs (modern) begin with SSN, and I too have the Slumberjack

SSN does stand for Submersible SHIP Nuclear. But, ask anyone in the Navy and darn it, it is a boat! I am open minded enough to consider anything - just enjoy verbally yanking some chains. Anyway.....I believe the Slumberjack I have is the "Eagles Nest" rated to 20 degrees with man made fibers. Very nice bag! I use it for temps that are going to be above 40 degrees - any lower I switch to the Marmot Merlin. I feel that you do get yor moneys worth with a Slumberjack product.

October 30, 2014
Quick Reply

Please sign in to reply

 
More Topics
This forum: Older: Light 2 man tent Newer: Pack choices
All forums: Older: semi-rigid crampons Newer: BD Black Prophet