My next UL Winter trip

9:46 p.m. on December 8, 2004 (EST)
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Hi Guys and Gals (:->)

RE: Winer base weight under 17 pounds with ski skins.

I have decided on the equipment list for my snow trip to 7500' in the Sierras with a buddy the weekend before Christmas. My computer generated virtual packs are generally within a couple percent accuracy so these weights are real. The basic pack including empty fuel bottle, empty canteen but no ski skins (for reference), will weigh 15.98 pounds. Add the skins (since I do carry them in my pack)and its 16.93 pounds complete except for the clothes I wear skiing, 3 pounds of food, 1 pound of water and 10 ounces of fuel, or a trail-head weight of 21.5 pounds.
As you might imagine my list includes half of a bibler tent with vestibule (3 pounds for 1/2) a down filled airmattress and my Kelty 6500 spectra pack which is modular and currently weighs 33 ounces.
food 3 pounds
water 1 pound
fuel 10 oz
ski skins 15.25 oz
old down jacket 25 oz
200 fleece side zip pants 17 oz
Sierra designs rain shells 12 oz
warm goretex gloves 6 oz
Balaclava 2.5 oz
fuel can 4 oz
32 oz nalgene canteen with OR insulater 10 oz
half coleman xtreme stove & windscreen 8 oz
Ti pan - one of 2 6 oz
knife 1.5 oz
fork/spoon Ti 1 oz
marmot pinnacle sleeping bag 36 oz
kelty pack 33 oz
Down Air Mat 27.5 oz
half bibler & vestibule 3 pounds
pack cover nylon 6 oz
spare cordage 1 oz
foam sit pad in pack 3 oz
first aid 3 oz
toilet paper 2.5 oz
trowel 2 oz
2 lighters 1.5 oz
microlith flashlight 1.25

There are many lighter new pieces of equipment than I own and mention here. People with really light gear can go much lighter but be aware that somehow you have to be able to put it all together and actually have enough insulation - 2 5 ounce jackets won't cut it. I will ski wearing 100 weight fleece pants and gaiters with a montebell underwear top and a light Marmot microfleece jacket with pit zips windbreaker gloves and a baseball cap. I will wear that marmot jacket inside my down jacket and my coated nylon shells over that, with my zip fleece pants over 100 fleece pants covered with nylon pants for in-camp wear.
So I will welcome any input or comments...
Jim S

9:36 p.m. on December 9, 2004 (EST)
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"half bibler & vestibule 3 pounds"

You forgot to list the repair kit for stitching the two halves of the Bibler back together again. Sewing needle, thread, seam sealer...that must add up to 3 or 4 ounces. :-O


Sorry, couldn't resist....

11:40 a.m. on December 10, 2004 (EST)
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747 forum posts

Dave - no no - I actually only use half of a tent don't ya know... set it up like a tarp... (;->) Hey if ya got a vestibule what do you need a tent for?

I am thinking of replacing the 6 ounce pack cover with an 8 ounce piece of blue closed cell foam - full length to use a chair and as a back-up inder my down airmattress.

One more week till the trip! I expect snow and temps in the teens. Will submit report afterwards
Jim S (:->)

12:23 p.m. on December 10, 2004 (EST)
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Yeah, waking up with spindrift inside the tent is loads of fun! ;-)

The cover-for-pad swap sounds like decent tradeoff as long as it stays cold. With temperatures in the teens, you should be good to go.

Any idea what sort of gas is trapped inside closed-cell foam? You could probably save a couple grams if there was a helium-filled foam. Hmm...

3:47 p.m. on December 10, 2004 (EST)
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747 forum posts
Helium filled blue foam

Dave,
Woah - thats an awesome idea... The more foam you carried the lighter yer pack would be!!!!!!!!!! Yer pack could be made of foam and actually add negative weight to the weight of the contents! Yer tent could be foam, and your sleeping bag - uh oh Dave I think we have a problem though - you'd have to stake down your tent fer sure, but also your sleeping bag and your foam jacket and you could never completely empty your pack or it would float away...
Jim S

4:41 p.m. on December 10, 2004 (EST)
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Re: Helium filled blue foam

If only we had to worry about such problems! Fill the pack with some choice beverages and away we go...

But I did the math and it doesn't look so hopeful.

According to REI, a standard 3/4 length blue foam pad weighs in at 7.5 ounces, with a total volume of 511 cubic inches (56" x 24" x 0.38"). For our purposes let's assume that half that volume is gas and the rest is made up of solids. That gives us 256 cubic inches, or 0.148 cubic feet, of helium.

At sea level, one cubic foot of helium can lift 0.84 ounces. So our 0.148 cubic feet will reduce the weight of the pad by only 0.12 ounce, or 3.4 grams.

It gets worse. The bouyancy of helium decreases with altitude. By the time you get the the South Col of Everest, that 3.4 gram weight savings will be worth less than half a gram.

Oh well...better go cut the handle off my toothbrush instead :-)

1:42 p.m. on December 15, 2004 (EST)
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More weight reduction...tooth brushes no longer needed

my wife came home from the dentist with a new product. Some type of biodegradable tissue you put on your finger and then wipe down your teeth. No brush. No paste.

4:46 p.m. on December 15, 2004 (EST)
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1,238 forum posts
Here is more info on the product

Oral-B Brush-Ups. Textured teeth wipes. Sugar free. Mint flavored.

Comes in a small envelope 1.5" x 3.50" x .01".

Weight doesn't even register on a postage scale.

7:41 p.m. on December 15, 2004 (EST)
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Nice find, Ed

I'm a little jealous. I got my teeth cleaned today too and all they sent me home with was the usual floss and a new toothbrush. That and sore gums.

These can't be effective enough to take the place of a toothbrush and toothpaste, though, can they?

10:37 p.m. on December 16, 2004 (EST)
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747 forum posts
Not nice

We have gone through a major thing over these a couple of times on other groups - they do a lousey job, you don't want to put you dirty finger in your mouth when camping, and several dentists wrote in to discredit them all together. You can buy a childs toothbrush and carry a little powder in a bag or a tiny tube of tooth paste - no one would share a tent wint you using the other things.

Fito had to cancel out on our trip for this weekend so now I have no partner and now blue helium filled foam.
Jim S

5:58 a.m. on December 17, 2004 (EST)
Re: Not nice

they are great for me. I'm not that concerned about having fresh breath while the rest of me stinks.

I just want something that removes the fuzz from my teeth and gives me that "just brushed" feeling. Sticking a dirty finger in my mouth has never been a concern. That dirt is cleaner than most peoples mouths.

My big hygene thing while camping is making sure my butt is clean. Since I started carrying baby wipes many moons ago, you can eat off my butt.

Then stick your finger in your mouth.

5:59 a.m. on December 17, 2004 (EST)
30 reviewer rep
1,238 forum posts
oops! that was me. n/m

nm

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