Mountainsmith "Master" Extrenal Frame?

I'm planning on buying a nice sized pack for camping and whatnot, and have decided on an external frame.

The Kelty Trekker 3950 seems to be about right for me, as far as size and price. However, I'm intrigued by a Mountainsmith pack that I've found at Dick's Sporting Goods.

It's the Mountainsmith "Master", with 3500 cubic inches, a mesh tie-down area underneath, and the top is sort of a bungee thing that will allow you to lash stuff to the top fairly easily as well.

Despite being slightly smaller than the Trekker, I think this thing may actually pack more. But I can't find a THING about this pack anywhere. It's not on the Mountainsmith website, nor on the Dick's Sporting Goods site. Google comes up with nothing, and there are no reviews anywhere that I can find.

Has anyone ever heard of this pack? Or do you know where I can get an opinion on it?

I also looked for this pack, including on eBay and found nothing and I'm usually pretty good at finding obscure stuff. I think your best bet is to call Mountainsmith and see what they can tell you about it-not the same as an independent review, but at least you'll learn something. It may have been made just for Dick's or is a discontinued model, but even then, something usually pops up.

Welcome to my life. I work for Dick's Sporting Goods and I don't know how many times I have found stuff like that. I haven't quite figured out where this stuff comes from. Some stuff seems to be good quality gear for the price. I have found several sleeping bags and some tents that there just isn't any information for anywhere. I always tell people that I just sell the stuff I don't have any say in what stuff I get to sell. I have tested the Mountainsmith bag out in the store and to me it is on par with other externals at that price. To me a lot of gear you can tell if it is good or not by looking it over closely.

Well of course, now that I have posted here and asked, I finally got my reply from Mountainsmith. (I wrote to them last week sometime, and they never replied, so I got impatient.)

Hi Greg

That pack is a special pack we make for Dicks that is not part of our regular line. That is why it is not on our web site.

Let me know if I can help with anything else.

Regards,
-Richard @ Mountainsmith Consumer Service
mountainsmith@summithut.com

Hey hoosierbackpacker, do you work in the Clarksville store? I was there today. I first found that pack at Oxmoor.

No I work at another store. I am glad you asked Mountainsmith about the backpack because there is all sorts of gear that I can't find anything about and it is always gear by really good brands. I suppose a big retailer can get stuff like that but I don't really see why having exclusive merchandise helps.

Having exclusive merchandise is a big plus for a store or chain, especially if it is a known brand. If you know the brand, but can't get a particular item anywhere else, then you'll be shopping at Dick's and most likely will buy other more common things that you could otherwise get anywhere. This is often why stores have "house brands" like REI does. Plus house brands are usually cheaper-not necessarily cheaper quality, just cheaper in price for various reasons such as economy of scale when ordering, less money spent on advertising, etc.

This triggers something that is a problem in the outdoor industry -

Big chains have a lot of leverage that local shops do not have. One of the results of chains like REI, EMS, Sport Chalet (major SoCal chain that is expanding rapidly), Dick's, all the various Sports Authority names, being so big is that they get better deals than local Mom and Pop shops. 20 years ago, we had about 10 local shops that sold climbing gear. We now have 2, but we have about 10 REIs and a dozen Sports Authorities. Even the local chain Any Mountain is shrinking.

A shop like Sunrise Mountaineering, which has a very knowledgable staff and a good selection of top climbing and backcountry ski gear, has to pay more for the gear ("wholesale") than a big chain like REI can sell it for at a profit. The big attraction of Sunrise and stores like that is that their employees are extremely knowledgable and will make sure you have the right gear for your activity. Unfortunately, the REIs and EMSs today are not what they were 40 or 50 years ago (when REI had one shop in Seattle and EMS had one shop in North Conway). They have a lot of employee turnover, so many, probably most, of their people do not know much about the gear. And, since clothing is what sells (lots of wannabes like the rugged outdoorsmen/women look, but never hike farther than from their parked car into the Starbucks), that is what they devote most of their floor space to. To some extent, the tents, climbing ropes, and skis are loss leaders - they attract customers who are seeking the woodsy atmosphere.

Something to keep in mind is this - if you go to the local shop to seek advice, you owe it to them to buy some significant gear there, even though the same thing might cost more than at your neighborhood EMS. They have to stay in business for you to get advice. It is worth it to pay a bit more for that advice and service. You will get a better pack fit and a better boot fit (including some customized alterations of the boots to make them really fit well) from the local shop than the Big Box store. I am not saying that you should not patronize the Big Box stores, rather that if you are going to get the personalized knowledgable advice you need for a lot of outdoor gear, be willing to spend a little of your money at the Mom and Pop backpacking and climbing shop.

(The Old Geezer steps down from the soap box and continues mumbling incoherently in his beard...)

Bill, you are right on the money-no pun intended. It's kind of hard to think of REI as a "big box" store, but that's really what it is. Same for Sport Chalet. I've got several of each within about a half hour drive. The closest thing I have to a small store nearby is A16. There are a few really knowledgeable people at the REI I usually go to, but it takes a while to get to know them.

Quick story-I was buying a Voile shovel at the new REI in Folsom, CA (near Sacramento). The clerk said, "Can I have your member card?" to which I replied, "Oh, usually I get asked, 'Are you a member?' What gave me away, the REI rainjacket?" She looked at the shovel and said "No, you're buying a 'member item', the non-members just buy clothes."

I'm not sure manufacturers realize the value of small stores. Some of them might sell them products on a "most favored nations" basis as the big stores, but I bet most don't. I think this is true across the spectrum of products-bicycles, cameras and so on. Online shopping might even help some small stores-it doesn't take a big store to have a big mail order business.

Tom got the reply - "She looked at the shovel and said "No, you're buying a 'member item', the non-members just buy clothes.""

Funniest thing I've heard in a long time! So true, so true!

On the other hand, REI, EMS, Sport Chalet, Patagonia, and some others used to be small stores, and have now grown huge. But their character has changed, as we have discussed here many times.

Interesting that you got asked for the card. I don't think I have been asked for the card in years, maybe because I usually just recite my number somewhere in the checkout process. Sometimes I get the reaction "that's all?", since I have a 5-digit number in the low 30,000 range (Barb's parents were in the 7000 range). In my neighborhood REI (1.5 miles from my house, opened in August) during the first week they were open, I attracted all the checkout clerks who had never seen such a low number. Oldest one in the group said something about the number being older than she was. I think it is in the 6-digit range these days.

The Folsom store isn't all that new, is it? Gotta be 3 or 4 years old anyway. We pass it on the way to South Lake Tahoe, but I don't think we have stopped there, although it is right next to the freeway.

Bill, The Folsom store was brand new when this happened. I think it was two or three years ago at the most. BTW, remember when Banana Republic used to sell British war surplus jackets and other military gear they brought back from India and the Middle East? I used to get their catalogs with all that stuff in them.

Low 30,000 range - I'M NOT WORTHY!!!

My number is in the mid 600,000 (late 1970's) range and I had a clerk comment that I had a "nice low number."

Just remember guys like me, in a state where no one wants to do business in, when it comes to mail-order houses. Heck, I don't even know where the closest Denny's is located around here. I live in one of those towns where you say "want to go to Charleston to get a pizza?" instead of "want to go get a pizza?". Sort of like on the old Andy Griffith show about going to Mount Pilot for something.

If it weren't for large distributors and mail order on the internet, I wouldn't even know about half the stuff in the world. Did you guys know they have tubeless tires now?

Steve

Steve, There are a lot of specialty gear makers and small stores that can now compete with bigger ones because of the Internet. The little makers can't sell to the big stores because they can't make enough product to meet the needs of a chain. They have limited advertising power, but sometimes word of mouth on forums like this one enable them to get known. The specialty stores can sell online because someone like me has no idea how big the store is, and doesn't actually care, as long as I can find what I want at the right price. Online sales can help small stores keep their brick and mortar operation going without the need to compete with REI and the other big guys. I really like being able to talk one on one and see things in person, but sometimes, it just isn't possible. That's why a good return policy will encourage me to buy online.