Thunderstorms

6:38 p.m. on September 11, 2006 (EDT)
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It has occurred to me that i don't really know what to do if I'm caught in a thunderstorm. I know enough not to stand under a loan tree or to stick out if I'm in a large Field. I would guess that my tent is not a safe place to be due to the metal poles. If somebody could fill me in on what to do that would be great.

7:48 p.m. on September 11, 2006 (EDT)
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There is a good National Weather Service web page on this, which you can get to through the regional NWS office for your area. Do a google search for "National Weather Service lightning" and it will give you the link through your closest office. Or directly to http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/

Basically, you don't want to be the highest object in the vicinity, close to the highest object (stay away from tall trees), or on something like a peak or ridgeline. If you are in a boat on a lake, get to shore as soon as possible. Getting into the water doesn't help, because your head will still be the highest object on the water surface.

You can get into a large grove of trees in a valley, making sure you are near the shorter trees. Bottom of a gully is poor, since that makes a natural current conduit. Also, do not get under a rock overhang or into a cave - in the overhang or cave entrance, you partly fill the spark gap, making a good path. Inside a cave, the current may travel through the cracks, which will then find you.

There is a rule about ground currents ("splatter") that takes note of the fact that if you look at the ground around a tree (or more commonly, the flag at the hole on a golf course - golfers get hit by lightning more than just about any activity) that has been hit, you usually see a spiderweb of burn marks. The rule has to do with a 45 degree sightline. It is better illustrated on the NWS pages than you can describe it in words.

A good description is given in Mountaineering Freedom of the Hills - a book you really need to get. This is one of several books published by the Seattle Mountaineers. It gives lots of info about general backpacking and outdoor activities (and has been recommended to you and lots of others here before). The Mountaineers Press also has a good little book on lightning. Much better than anyone can put in a post on the Web.

8:13 p.m. on September 11, 2006 (EDT)
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so if I understand right any thing that makes you stick out is bad. and metal things are bad. like a pack with a metal frame or a tent. If a storm comes along in the middle of the night would the best choice be to get out of my tent and in to a stand of trees??? also I'm assuming that people should stand not sit and stay on dirt or rock and not on tree roots.

2:34 a.m. on September 12, 2006 (EDT)
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I just finished reading "Shattered Air" about a group of hikers hit by lightning on the top of Half Dome in 1985. A very good read-a bit slow in the set-up, but once you get to the storm and the lightining strikes, it really is an amazing story. Besides being really dramatic, you learn a lot about lightning and what it can do to you. This storm killed two of the hikers and three were seriously injured. The hikers that were hit were actually inside a cave at the top of Half Dome and the bolts went right through them like a bomb going off inside it.

I'm no expert, but one thing I learned from the book is that trees may not protect you-you can get flashover if the tree is hit. Read everything you can from the National Weather Service and other sources to get a good picture as to what you should do under various situations.

6:18 a.m. on September 12, 2006 (EDT)
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A cave on top of Half Dome? Admittedly it has been many years (1976) since I was there, but I do not recall one.

Some areas are more prone than others. A guy I know here in town was hiking in a high elevation area of Colorado during a light drizzle. There was no sign of any electrical activity until the bolt that hit his party. They were traveling in two small groups separated by a small distance. The forward group was struck. No one was killed, but it ended the trip as they needed to get some to medical attention. One did not recover from paralysis for several hours.

I had heard (from electrical engineers I previously worked with) that the protective zone from a nearby tall object extends away from it in a curved arc, rather than a straight line. The curve starts at the top, amd descends down and away. This means the "protective" zone is not as large as one would think.

A couple of years ago I was walking through the old trees of Joyce Kilmer memorial forest in NC, where the Tulip Poplars are on the order of 400 years old. They are large trees. What impressed me was that a Hemlock tree that was somewhat shorter than the crown of a large Poplar next to it (and almost directly over it) had been struck by lightning, while the Poplar showed no signs of damage. Lightning does not always strike the high point.

6:41 a.m. on September 12, 2006 (EDT)
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Being a backpacker living in the Southeast, I often get the opportunity to go on camping trips where severe thunderstorms are a daily routine.

I have to just ignore the storms.

The probability of getting struck by lightning is fairly low ( I keep telling myself).

I will take precautions when I can. I often get off the ground by getting into a hammock with a tarp hung up above me to stay dry.

If I'm out bushwacking and don't have my hammock or a fly with me, I will continue on my way to camp and not worry about getting struck...doesn't do much good to worry about it.

If a lighting storm comes at night, I'm just glad to be dry in the tent, and just wait for the storm to pass over.

Ear plugs help quite a bit.

7:19 a.m. on September 12, 2006 (EDT)
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But current will travel through wet nylon cords. A wet cord offers a lot less resistance to current than air.

The chance of being struck is small, but I still dislike lightning more than anything else in the backcountry. I have had my share of counting time between flash and boom while camped on a ridge, or with lightning coming down while in a canoe (aluminum) on the water. The wake you make with a canoe is pretty impressive when motivated by lightning.

11:23 a.m. on September 12, 2006 (EDT)
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so ED your saying that as long as the tent is not set up in a bad spot (i.e. on a ridge or in the middle of a large clearing) then just stay in the tent and wait out the storm. After noon thunderstorms are not all that uncommon here during the fall. Lately it seems that at least one or 2 times a week we get a thunderstorm and hail.

11:53 a.m. on September 12, 2006 (EDT)
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Yep, that's what I do. What other choice does one have when in the woods? I head for the trees.

I wait out daytime storms in my hammock under a tarp and try to sleep thru them at night in my tent.

Hail would be a different story. If Hail was coming down, I'd be praying my tarp or tent rainfly didn't end up with multiple holes.

4:33 p.m. on September 12, 2006 (EDT)
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But, Ed, have you ever camped out in a tornado? Barb and I did .... once! That was in Mississippi, near a lake just off the Natchez Trace. We knew it was storming heavily, and the wind was blowing, rain, hail, all that stuff, branches and leaves flying through the air, people at the neighboring campsites packing hurriedly and fleeing. Next day when we got home, there was a photo in the paper that some brave soul had taken while standing out on the shore of the lake of the funnel cloud draining the lake (wonder if his name was Moses?). Anyway, that was a scare, realizing that the photo and lake were within a quarter mile of our tent. Hopefully, never again!

4:49 p.m. on September 12, 2006 (EDT)
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Chumango -
On your mention of a shorter hemlock being hit, according to the Lightning Safety book I have, there is some evidence that some tree species are hit by lightning more frequently and some are hit less frequently. Apparently the study was inspired by an old wive's tale in Germany about some trees being safe to stand under, and the statistics support the story. However, "Less frequent" does not mean "never", as was found in the study. Just when there is a mixed species stand, certain ones tend to attract the lightning more than others. I don't have the book immediately to hand, so I won't try to reproduce the table.

5:07 p.m. on September 12, 2006 (EDT)
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thanks for everyone's help I appreciate it.

ED the hail we get is not very large usually pee size or smaller but there are exceptions. I think a tent with a good fly would hold up to the hail OK but I'm not sure how a single wall would do. anyway if it was hailing hard and I was thinking I would probably put my cook tarp over my tent. if i had it ( I only Cary it when I'm expecting bad weather).

next time I go to Ft Collins I will see if I can find that book you recommended Bill.

7:57 p.m. on September 12, 2006 (EDT)
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Bill,

Perhaps it is the shape of the tree. I know that pointed metal objects have a stronger electric field than round ones, all other conditions being equal, so the more pointed trees may cause a stronger electric field near the top than a tree with a spreading crown. When the ground charge starts building (charge separation between ground and cloud), the electric field at the tops of ponted trees in the immediate area would be stronger. Just a guess, but maybe true.

12:48 a.m. on September 13, 2006 (EDT)
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Chumango, from what I recall about the trees listed, it had no relation to shape of tree. The study tried a couple correlations, with the only hint being water transportation (higher sap flow might correlate with more strikes). But it was not very well correlated. On the "cave" on Half Dome, it is more of a rock shelter than a cave, a slight overhanging roof. The perfect spark gap that gets a lot of people who think they are sheltering from the rain but don't realize that they are filling the gap for the lightning current.

Dave, don't count on any tent to stand up all that well in hail. Small sleet and grauple is probably ok, but when it gets to golf-ball-size or larger, it will go through almost anything. Whether a fly or single wall stands up better will depend on the material and age of the tent. Basically, don't count on a tent as a hail shelter or lightning shelter.

1:02 a.m. on September 13, 2006 (EDT)
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Chumango, I've never been up there, however, the book has photos of the cave-it is right at the face. It looks like a couple of slabs sit over it. There is a slab right outside it called The Kings Chair. One of the guys who was killed was sitting there when he got hit. His friends tried to pull him into the cave, but he was too heavy and fell over the edge.

8:48 a.m. on September 13, 2006 (EDT)
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Tom - I do not recall anything like this on Half Dome, and I have been there twice. Granted, the last time was about 12 years ago, but the description of something right at the face does not sound familiar. There are some good boulders right at the face, perhaps there is a slight overhang on one of the slabs.

If things work out, I'll be there again in a few weeks, and I'll look for it.

9:20 a.m. on September 13, 2006 (EDT)
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I just did a search (Kings Chair Half Dome) and found pictures of the nose of Half Dome, and indeed there is a space under a slab right at the nose.

10:58 a.m. on September 13, 2006 (EDT)
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Found my copy of "Lightning Strikes (by Jeff Renner, Mountaineers Press)

Test plots of trees were used. The US experiment was Oak (48), Pine (33), Spruce (5), and Beech (1) during the 1 year period. The German experiment was Oak (56), Ash (20), Pine (4), and Beech (0), for their 1 year period.

The speculation was that sandy soil with deep taproot (like oak or ash) is more likely to attract lightning than trees with shallow, horizontal roots. Also tall trees in the open or near the border of woods.

Hmmmm, we have lots of very tall coast redwoods (doast redwoods hold the records for the tallest trees in the world), and a fairly large number have been struck by lightning, which lights the core on fire. The trees burn out internally, leaving nice, large hollows that are nice for camping and rain shelters, except for knowing that they tend to attract lightning strikes. Redwoods and the sequoia in the Sierra have shallow, widespread root systems (too many tourists wandering around the bases and gawking can kill the trees). I guess it's probably the extreme height of the trees that does it (200-300 feet is not uncommon, with the record currently close to the 700 foot level, plus frequently 50+ foot diameters).

12:14 p.m. on September 13, 2006 (EDT)
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Chumango, That's it. There's also a slab that sticks straight out called the Diving Board that people stand on and have their picture taken. Ansel Adams took a famous photo of Half Dome while standing on it. Do a search and lots of personal websites with these photos show up.

Here are two photos I found that show the King's Chair and the cave behind it really well.
http://tinyurl.com/gdtmn
http://tinyurl.com/gdtmn

12:20 p.m. on September 13, 2006 (EDT)
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Oops. Here is the second photo.
http://tinyurl.com/gp9qr

11:17 p.m. on September 13, 2006 (EDT)
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Tom - Now that I have seen the pictures, yes, there is a space under a slab on the nose. I was thinking more in terms of on the main face area. The diving board is located well below the summit on the western shoulder.

Bill - The tallest coast redwood is 368' tall. Coast Redwoods are typically in the 300-350' range, 15-20' diameter for a mature specimen. The largest sequoia is 274' tall and 35' diameter at the base. Mature sequoias are typically around 250-275' tall (plenty of snag tops due to lightning strikes) and around 25-30' diameter at the base. The largest base diameter that I have seen is 40', and the tallest sequoia that I have heard of was 321' tall.

6:13 p.m. on September 14, 2006 (EDT)
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The new record redwood is one of a group just found in a survey. 3 in the group exceed the previously recorded max by a fair amount. The location is being kept under wraps for reasons I don't completely understand. I see I mistyped what was supposed to be 370+ (dropped the 3 and apparently held the 0 down). The record tree is 378.1, 8 feet taller than the previous record. It was announced a week ago, and is in a "remote part of Redwoods National Park". On our property in the Santa Cruz mountains, we have several stumps in the 40+ foot diameter range. The property was extensively cut during the rebuilding of San Francisco after 1906.

Ought not to type faster than I read. Anyway, I'm headed for a short trip in the backcountry.

2:08 p.m. on September 17, 2006 (EDT)
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no luck finding freedom of the hills i might have to order it from amazon.com. Bill the hail that usually comes with the afternoon thunderstorms is pee size or smaller if we get hail at all. if I'm gathering what people are saying about tents they don't really attract lightning unless there in a bad location but they don't protect either.

7:48 p.m. on October 7, 2006 (EDT)
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I would just stay in my tent.

I,ve been really safe from all types of weather in my ALPS Mountaineering Taurus models. Very weather-proof, not one leak to speak off. Plus if the winds really begin to blow, there is nothing to fear. The tent can be guyed out on each of the four corners. Very stable in high winds!

8:24 p.m. on October 7, 2006 (EDT)
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ministercreek -
Dave's major worry was the lightning danger. A tent does not afford significant protection against lightning if it is not placed in a safe area. It doesn't help to stay dry if you get zapped. The group that got hit in Sequoia last year was sheltered well enough from the rain, but were in a location very exposed to lightning (obviously). One died, a couple others have permanent damage.

And tents are not completely windproof - having seen a few top-quality expedition tents shredded (ones far better quality and stronger than anything ALPS makes). Try one in a tornado (ooops, forgot, tornadoes only hit mobile home parks, which we used to call "tornado magnets" when I lived in the South)

1:51 p.m. on October 8, 2006 (EDT)
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Bill,

I got news for you. Tornadoes hit here in the Midwest too. We had our share here in Wisconsin this year.

I can see your point about a tent not surviving a tornado. However I've considered "riding out" an hurricane in my tent. It would be most likely my TNF VE-25 due to it's multiple stake out/guy out points.

Good point though.

8:18 p.m. on October 8, 2006 (EDT)
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Ah, yes, you have a bunch of the tornado magnets and tornado generators in the Midwest, as Dorothy found out. My son (an atmospheric scientist by trade, specializing in severe weather) is a researcher at UW Madison.

The VE25 will survive 70 knot winds, if properly pitched, although windwalls help. On the other hand, at the Denali 17,000 foot camp, there was a VE25 that was lifted out of its windwall enclosure at what the NPS wind meter at the camp measured at about 70 knots. Proving that there are right ways and wrong ways to pitch even a top-level expedition tent and right ways and wrong ways to pitch one. There were several tents shredded in that particular storm (we were nice and cozy at 14,000 feet during those 3 days, with "only" 50 knot "breezes").

I have been carrying a pocket wind meter for most of my backcountry and expedition treks for several years now. I was curious how strong those "hunnert mile an hour" winds were that people kept telling me about. Turns out that most of the ones people were calling that while I was present with the various meters were more like 30-40 knots (35-45 mph). At those speeds, it starts getting hard to move around. By 75 mph, it is hard to stand, and if it were really 100 mph, people are getting blown off their feet.

Several reasons I would not suggest trying to ride out a hurricane in a tent - main one is storm surges and flooding (tent won't keep that kind of water out). Another is the flying debris (tents won't keep flying branches or, in urban areas, flying pieces of roofs and walls). The wind per se is one of the least of your worries. Highest wind I have measured when staying in an exposed tent (on a mountain ridge) was a bit above 50 knots, and there were stronger gusts I did not measure. The flapping and general noise was great enough that it was uncomfortable, to say the least. That was in a Mountain Hardware Trango. I have had similar experiences in a VE25, but not with a direct measure of the wind.

12:29 a.m. on October 9, 2006 (EDT)
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I would pitch my tent far enough away from any flooding due to storm surge.

That is one of my outdoor goals: surviving a hurricane in my tent. I hope it to be a Catergory 5!!!!

3:29 a.m. on October 9, 2006 (EDT)
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sure ministercreek. A cat 5. Right.

Have any idea what a cat 1 is like? Four of them passed over my house two years ago.

Cat 1 is strong enough to bring down large trees and tear roofs off of houses. To this day, evidence of those storms are still everywhere in Central Florida.

I bet a strong tropical storm would make you soil your drawers.

I've been left behind on an island when the National Forest Service evacuated all the other campers due to a hurricane coming our way. Luckily, it hit land at tropical storm strength.

It's true, sounds like a freight train is bearing down on you. Then it goes away. Then it starts to come back. Over and over again - for hours.

Then when you think it's finally over, here comes part B.

Next day when I arrived at the dock to catch the ferry to go home. The dock was gone. Storm surge had ripped it to pieces.

I would not want to go thru that again.

Ed G
Clermont, Fl

6:04 p.m. on October 9, 2006 (EDT)
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If I recall correctly, a person survived Hurricane Hugo in their tent back in '89. I recall seeing a photo of that person and his tent with all the debris but his tent suvived the hurricane.

Storms don't scare me. :)

7:13 p.m. on October 9, 2006 (EDT)
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Good thing you are a minister and God is on your side. Somehow your bravado reminds me of a story I heard many years ago when I was living in Mississippi. Seems a preacher was driving on a country road when he came up behind a car that was clearly being driven by a drunk. The drunk was weaving all over the road. After following patiently for ten or fifteen minutes, the preacher decided "I better get around this fellow before he kills us both." At a somewhat wider spot, as the drunk veered to the right, the preacher gunned it and pulled out around the drunk. But the road proved a bit slippery, and the preacher's car slid off the road and rolled over. The drunk stopped, walked over to the car, and asked if the preacher was all right. Preacher replied, "I'm fine, God's at my side." Drunk replies, "Better have Him ride with me, 'cause he's gonna get hurt riding with you, driving like that."

As Ed says, clearly you haven't been through a significant storm, much less a serious hurricane. "Hubris" is the term for what you are expressing, with an excess of "macho" thrown in. Remember the people who have stayed in beachfront hotels in various hurricanes along the southern Atlantic and Gulf coasts, only to find that those steel-reinforced concrete buildings vanished in the storm. Take a look at the photos from the Cat 3, 4, and 5 hurricanes that have gone through Florida, the North Carolina barrier islands, or Galveston. Do you really believe your tent will still be there after one of those?

While I have never been near the eye of a Cat 3 or higher hurricane (closest was 75 miles from one), and never experienced a tornado first hand, I have seen the damage within a few hours after. And I have experienced storms on mountains that I measured 50 knot winds (and were reported by the ranger station to have measured 75 knot gusts). That's mild compared to a hurricane. I won't voluntarily go through a real hurricane in a building, much less a tent, because of what I witnessed at a lower level.

Or maybe you are just putting us on? Yeah, that must be it - you aren't really serious.

9:25 p.m. on October 9, 2006 (EDT)
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Re: hurricanes....................

Bill,

First of all I am not a minister or preacher, but thanks for your good sense of humor. I got a chuckle out of that. :)

Now to the discussion at hand.

No, I am not kidding. I desire to one day test my tent out in a hurricane, God willing. I am not joking.

I would use my TNF VE-25 tent for the simple fact it is built for such extreme weather. Is is not???
Only buy testing the tent in this manner will prove it to be such a well made tent afterall. Perhaps TNF (or other Companies) will consider using me to test their equipment.

Sounds like a great job to me!

3:42 a.m. on October 10, 2006 (EDT)
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Re: hurricanes....................

MC,
here's a good web site for ya. FLHurricane.com

You can find out about every storm that exits the African coast and have plenty of time to hitch your ride on a hurricane.

Tell the folks on the hurricane forums what you wish to do. That ought to be an interesting string. You'll even hear back from folks who went thru Katrina.

Not much is expected during the final days of this hurricane season, but better luck next year.

Houses in these parts are built out of concrete block.
When storms are approaching we cover our windows with 13 gauge corragated aluminum panels and use 4x4's to brace garage doors.

5:16 a.m. on October 10, 2006 (EDT)
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Re: hurricanes....................

I would imagine the tested wind ratings for any tent are perhaps performed in wind tunnel situations. There is no debris or anything else other than wind in these tests, and if not done in a clean environment, then at least performed in a clean air situation.

I have stood on the beach in a mild tropical storm, winds and gusts around 40 mph, and the sand turns into liquid sandpaper. If you are thinking of doing this on or around a sandy site, your tent would most likely not stand up to the sand and debris. It might (MIGHT) just survive the winds.

Just my two cent rookie thought, but nylon is no match for this type of stuff.

Steve

10:38 a.m. on October 10, 2006 (EDT)
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Re: hurricanes....................

You gotta be kidding... You'd risk life & limb just to prove the durability of a tent? Priorities in order?

You aint see nothing like a hurricane or even the remnants of one, Creek. You better have your will and the rest in order because this is a death wish. Had the remnants of Opal go over me a few years back. Although it was only a Tropical Depresion at the time it was 5 - 6 hours of 60mph winds steady. Not gusts of 60 but steady @ 60 with gusts higher than that. Trees bending great angles, a lot falling, limbs flying, pine cones shattering against the house, sh.. err.. stuff flying everywhere (!!!) and no place really safe. It's nothing like you see on TV.

If you just want to test the tent, you'd be better off setting it up & tying it to the top of you car and driving down the interstate.

Hope you don't expect anyone to be sorry for you if you get injured or killed doing this. Darwinian theory is still alive & strong.

2:47 p.m. on October 10, 2006 (EDT)
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Re: hurricanes....................

Adam,

This is no different than someone taking and using their tent down in the Arctic/Antarctica regions. I understand the winds could be blowing at 100+mpg. Ever see those ferious gales down in the Southern Ocean around Anarctica? Winds often blow way above the 75 mph "hurricane" limit!

These tents are supposed to be built for such extremes as I understand. Let people run and hide from these beautiful storms but one day soon I hope to experience one in my tent...I plan to survive. Maybe I'll even video tape it!

2:59 p.m. on October 10, 2006 (EDT)
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Re: hurricanes....................

Here is something interesting I found concerning Antarctic weather: http://www.amnh.org/education/resources/rfl/web/antarctica/s_katabatic_winds.html

Notice they use tents down there...even though those winds can reach 200 mph! So tents can stand up to such extremes it proves to me.

Life is not without risk. Actually I consider it "dangerous" driving on our roadways but that does not stop me from driving.

Hope it helps!

3:20 p.m. on October 10, 2006 (EDT)
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Re: hurricanes....................

It's not so much the air itself you have to worry about, it's what's in the air.

Areas that experience very frequent high winds (e.g. parts of the Antarctic, the upper reaches of 8,000 meter peaks, etc.) have been scoured clean of most debris that has potential to get airborne.

But when a hurricane slams into, say, Florida, there's a lot of stuff that it's going to pick up and hurl around. Your tent will be no match for a flying two-by-four, much less a car.

5:31 p.m. on October 10, 2006 (EDT)
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Re: hurricanes....................

but there not built to have a 80ft tree land on them (doesn't matter if you have AL, FG or steel tent poles) or a limb (or 2x4) driven through them with you being the meat on the shish kabob hiding in the tent. Like I said, there is stuff flying everywhere.

6:40 p.m. on October 10, 2006 (EDT)
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Re: hurricanes....................

mcrk -

It is true that the tents are tested in wind tunnels (by a few of the top companies), and that they are used in places like Antarctica, Denali (where I have sat out storms lasting up to a week), the 8000 meter peaks, etc. But, as others have been pointing out, a hurricane or tornado transports a lot of debris - branches, trees, roofs, sheets of glass ripped out of buildings, sometimes cars, sheds, cattle (good shot of some cows being lofted on one of the Weather Channel programs a few nights ago). Can your VE25 stand up to a tree or large window pane landing on it? Or one of the cows or the pickup that was tumbling in another Weather Channel program?

Oh yes indeed, dealing with a hurricane is orders of magnitude different from the situation in polar regions on on 8000 meter peaks.

One of the things we do in high mountain and polar regions is to construct wind walls. Also, the tents do not stand up indefinitely to the winds. The poles (usually Easton aluminum of fairly large diameter) bend, and will fatigue and break (I have seen this happen). Sometimes, as in 2002 when I was last on Denali, an incorrectly constructed windwall will fall over onto the tent and rip it open (you have to get out every so often to rebuild the walls by cutting new ice blocks and propping them against the walls to replace the fairly rapid erosion by the winds).

As I have mentioned before, the highest wind I have measured during one of the extended storms was in the 50-55 knot range, staying behind the wind wall and holding my Kestrel 4000 up above the wall. The NPS wind meter about 150 meters away was measuring occasional 70-80 knot gusts. In 2002, there were several tents shredded at the 17,000 ft camp in winds measured by the NPS wind meter there in the 75-80 knot range for several hours continuously (the standard wind meters are 6 meters above the ground).

When the winds get above 30 or 40 knots, some of the gusts will actually lift the tent if it is in the open and not sheltered behind wind walls. This is a rather unsettling feeling to have the floor lift underneath you (the wind actually gets in under the tent). Thankfully, I haven't been in the open in the higher winds, but people I know who have said they have been lofted in the tent for several minutes at a time in winds over 50 knots.

Another thing in polar regions and high mountains is that when the winds get really high, many times climbers have prepared snow caves in anticipation (you know winds can get that high, so you prepare beforehand). When the winds do pick up, you head for the bolt hole. Yet another thing is that when the winds are getting that high, you don't just depend on the standard tie-downs for the tent. In addition to using all the tiedown tabs, you often use the climbing rope looped back and forth over the tent, tied to snow anchors, pickets, deadmen, and anything else at hand ,plus the internal guying system. You don't use the tiny wire "stakes" that come with the tent or those plastic things they sell as "stakes" in the stores. The standard accessory cord (2 or 3 millimeter stuff, like parachute cord) is not up to the task. You go for 6 and 7 mil stuff at least.

I suggest you do some hard thinking about this suicidal death wish and find out what mountaineers really use, as well as what really happens in a hurricane. Read again what Ed and alan have said about their real-life experiences in hurricanes. It ain't just the wind when you are up against the full Wrath Of God (and Thor and Vulcan and Poseidon and the whole team together).

8:02 p.m. on October 10, 2006 (EDT)
153 reviewer rep
460 forum posts
Re: hurricanes....................

I don't doubt you about flying debris. I'm taking this into consideration, plus the aforementioned storm surge. Points noted.

Well we see what happens. Now in the meanwhile I have other fish to fry (like considering relocating to the Missouri Ozarks since I may have a job offer).

October 2, 2014
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