Why do I need a tent?

In one of the threads in this forum, Kirby made the comment that a tarp is "still not a tent". So I will ask, "Why do I need a tent, anyway?"

Why not just toss the sleeping bag out on the ground? Ok, maybe with a ground cloth and sleeping pad, but why not just sleep under the stars (or Ed's "favorite", a hammock - just kidding, Ed, but hey, why not?). I have done this plenty of times in the desert, Sierra, Rockies, even on Denali. One of the really great things about this is being able to clearly see the stars, with a clear, dark sky, far from city lights.

Need protection from rain or snow? Then why not a bivy sack, or a tarp? Tom, Ivan, and I did this one summer in Chamonix, for example, and I have done the bivy plus tarp in blizzards on Shasta.

Need protection from the bugs? Why not a bivy sack that has a bug net, or even just bug netting over the face hole of the sleeping bag? I've done this in the New Hampshire Whites and the Sierra at the height (or depths, depending on your viewpoint) of the bug season.

Need winter storm protection? What about an igloo, quinzhee, or snow cave? It's better protection and warmer than any tent.

If you are hiking the AT, or in places like the White Mountains of New Hampshire, there are shelters available. In some places the shelters have chain barriers that keep critters like bears out (in the Smokies, for example - kind of like an inverse zoo, with humans inside the cage and the bears on the outside).

So, let's hear from people. Why do you think you really need a tent, when there are alternatives that are lighter, warmer, equal or superior in protection, etc., besides being a whole lot cheaper.

While I know that I don’t “need” a tent and that the other options Bill has put forward (tarps, bivies, shelters, snowcaves, etc.) will do the job, I have to admit that I always prefer a tent. And I’ll be the first to admit that it’s completely irrational.

Every other item that goes in my pack is judged on necessity and weight. I’ve never taken along a book, a camp chair, or even a bottle of wine into the backcountry. This probably sounds a bit strict, but I don’t need any of those items or want them enough to carry them (although if someone else brings them along, great!). I also have no problem sleeping in a small tent, even with company (being 5'4" probably helps explain that).

However, as much as I logically appreciate the benefits (specifically weight and size) of other shelters I simply can’t make the jump to sleeping outside of a tent. I think it’s great when others do it, but by golly I like having a tent at night with floors and walls and no openings.

Ultimately sleeping with a tarp or in a shelter means there’s no way to keep out those little furry critters. Silly, I know. When I read Bill Bryon’s “A Walk in the Woods” years ago there was a passage about him sleeping in a particularly rodent-friendly shelter and flattening the offenders with his boot. Well, I’m not exactly blaming Bill Bryson, but I’ve never forgotten that image. So even though I hang my food and other smelly stuff far away from where I sleep, I can’t help but still want that separation between the rodents and me.

As for a bivy or snow cave, chalk that up to a mild feeling of claustrophobia. Small tents and mummy bags I can deal with, but if I wake up in the dark I better be able to move around freely pretty quickly. And I don’t like worrying about snow collapsing on me and suffocating me while asleep (obviously if you build the cave right this shouldn’t be a concern, but we’re talking about irrationality here). As for hammocks, I think they’re another great option, but it comes down to claustrophobia in the dark again.

One two practical notes, I’m a cold sleeper, so I welcome any extra warmth from being inside a tent. Also, I camp and backpack with my 2-and-a-half year old, so he needs to be contained for safe sleeping. So a tent it is.

I’m actually not a fearful person and I think the backcountry is one of the safest places to be, assuming you have the right experience and gear. I’m just most comfortable in a tent so that’s what I’m sticking with for now.

Alicia said "Ultimately sleeping with a tarp or in a shelter means there’s no way to keep out those little furry critters."

Good point, Alicia. And might I add slithery scaly reptiles, slimey toads, creepy insects and spiders, and a few flying critters as well. In Yosemite Valley, one of my buddies was attacked by an owl, which apparently thought his face peeking through the face hole in his sleeping bag was fair game.

By the way, don't take my initial polemic to be an attempt to make converts to tentless camping. There have been a number of threads which have made the assumption that a tent is the only option. My question is, given that there are other options, why do you (anyone out there) automatically take a tent while backpacking? Is it just reflex, or because "it is the thing to do", or what?

Other comments?

I like a tent for two reasons - I like to keep me and my stuff dry and I like my stuff organized.

I have hammock spot stuff (that can get wet) and I have dry stuff (clothes, sleeping bag, etc).

I'm way too anal retentive to mix my stuff. Drives me nuts and I can't relax until my stuff is in it's proper place.

For me, a tent equates to good mental health :).

Its funny you should ask this question, as my brother and I did a sort of study on this to see which is better. And by study, I mean we decided to go camping with our solo tents(all we had at the time) and he forgot his. So he just slept on a tarp and ground mat with a sleeping bag, and I slept with all those things while being in a tent.
We knew it probably wouldn't rain becuase of the forcast, and it was the good temperature where it isn't too cold but there aren't any bugs. He said he didn't mind not having a tent becuase he got a better view of the stars. I even considered ditching my tent and sleeping outside, but decided against it. He got into his sleeping bag, and I got into my tent.

All went pretty well for a while, and then out of nowhere tons of deer started sneaking up on us. What I mean by sneaking up on us is I wouldn't hear them get close to me, then out of nowhere, I would hear this huge snorting noise about 8 feet from my tent. This was pretty freaky for me, yet I was nowhere as scared as my brother. I know a deer probably wouldn't hurt us, yet having 100 lb mamals running around you and snorting in the dark while your outside a tent is scary. At least that is what my brother told me. Somehow he found a huge club of a stick in the dark and was ready to take anything out that came near him.

I know a single wall tent like the one I had would probably do next to nothing but trip up whatever animal wanted to come in, yet I could definatly sleep a lot better than my brother outside of the tent. That is one reason I like to use a tent. Another is the fact that I just spent a good deal of money on a Sierra Designs Electron, and so this would not be the most cost-efficient time to start ditching tents.

Maybe in the future I will be better suited for dealing with forest critters, it's just at the current moment I prefer sleeping in my sleeping bag with myself, and not a woodland creature.

-Daniel

I love "sleeping under the stars" and I prefer it most of the time (spring-summer) but when I wake up at 3am with rain hitting my face, I feel safer having some sort of rain fly or shelter. If you have a thunderstorm that may last all night, its always good to have a back up plan. My son and I have made three different styles of tarp tents, all of which have very good ventilation and require no poles, which saves weight, and are either suspended by a tree or between two trees much like the old tube tents or hammock. We also designed them into two sections so each can carry half the weight (marine corp style). Each section, weights about 1.5 lbs and with the bungee cord, stakes and ground tarp, top out about 2 lbs for me and 1 lb for him. They may not last as long as a typical kelty or eureka solo, but they only cost about $15 to make and they sleep two, keeping my son close to me and not inside a solo of his own where he may be a bit uncomfortable, a child can get easily frightened by himself in the woods at night in his own tent, especially in bear country. Although we still sleep outside when the weather permits, we never plan a hike without some sort of shelter, though it would be nice to eliminate the weight and set up time. We have never used a hike shelter on the AT, I'm just weary of strangers when it comes to my kids safety. Too many nuts in this world, not to down any packers, but you can never be too careful.

I would miss the weight and what else would I put in that space in my pack??

If I'm going by myself, I don't tend to take a tent, I tend to take a 10*10 nylon tarp and my poncho. If my wife is coming along I take our Eureka Timberline for a number of reasons - primary being privacy - secondary being that my wife doesn't appreciate being up close and personal with snakes, mice or racoons!
I've tried a bivy sack - if I was on an alpine ascent I'd consider using one - they're great for trying to sleep while you're tied to a piton seated on a ledge hundreds of feet above the valley floor.
I don't, however, hit the trail to suffer - I like to be able to spread out a bit - and if it's raining and I decide to take a day off from hiking I kinda like to be able to cook, read, contemplate nature and move around - a bivy sack would be awfully confining for a full day - my tarp + a bug-net to pull over my upper body while sleeping (in spring/summer - especially if it's black fly season) does me just fine.

You don't need a tent if the weather, weather forecast or everything else is perfact. I've never been to that place. A tarp is cool until the wind blows the rain nearly sideways or it rains for a full day and everything that's touching the ground under it gets wet anyway.

If you don't need a tent, don't set one up. If you need a tent and don't have one....Ooooops! Why on earth would you want to put yourself through that?

I couldn't imagine riding out a multi-day wind and rain storm in the BWCWA or anywhere else in a bivy sack under a tarp. My book might get wet.

Al Dennis

I'd be inclined to agree with your argument for a tent IF I hadn't emerged nice and dry after numerous nights spent under a tarp in pouring down rain - the trick to this is site selection and being clever when you pitch - to ensure adequate protection.
Obviously if you pitch in a low spot and leave the wind-facing edges way up in the air - you're gonna be soaked - however - if you batten down the windward side(s) - select your site well - and use a decent groundsheet under your pad/sleeping bag you'll probably be nice and dry.
A tent may be more convenient than a tarp - a tarp is - however - more flexible. There are always tradeoffs - aren't there?
If you're on a budget, not camping above tree-line and are clever with pitching even a 10*10 plastic sheet with some versa-ties and nylon cord an make a nice snug shelter for a week or even more (with a bit of care) - the semi-transparent plastic also makes for a cheerier place to spend a rain-soaked day or two than a tent does (which always seem rather cave like to me).
However, if you enjoy your tent, I'd never try to change your mind - maybe I (and other tarp users) just enjoy getting a bit closer to nature than tent users.
As for bivy-sacks - claustrophobia prohibits me from even considering the use of them - unless I'm on a bivy - up high on a rock face - and have no clear alternative!

I enjoyed my Jerry Cunningham tarp tent. Built in bug screens at either end. Could invent various ways to rig it for myself or my then/present significant other. Never was in a wild rain storm. In some downpours. Like Folkie said, with a ground cloth and some imagination, a tarp can go a long way.

I agree with everything you said because I have used a tarp alot and site selection and creative pitching works very well. Upwind side down low, watch out for low spots and look for signs of where water pooled up, those are no brainers. You better think of those same things when you use a tent. And I've been places where the NPS has you camping in a swampy area so you had to deal with getting damp when it rained a little hard no matter what you were using. The campsite from hell, I'm sure you've heard of it. Anyway, I've been known to not even unpack my tent every night but when things go to SH-T like they can sometimes I prefer to have the little bit of added shelter that a tent offers.

So I guess my better answer to the question that was posed is that you need a tent if like me you prefer to be a little more sheltered, and if you don't, then you probably don't need a tent.

Short answer: You don't. Six years in various infantry positions from machine gunner, to scout sniper and I've never had a tent once during training. Not at Ft. Drum, NY when it was well below zero and two-foot of snow on the ground, nor while doing 48 hour over watch in the middle of summer in Iraq. Sleeping bag, bivy and "woobie" (quilted poncho liner, so loved by grunts, it earned the moniker) has gotten me through it all. With that said, I carry a tent every time I plan on spending the night out backpacking or hunting. Just because I know I can sleep outside in the weather without a tent, doesn't mean I want to. I carry a tent because it keeps me cozy.

You said it better than I've been trying to say it. Cozy it good!

Nobody specificially mentions floorless "shaped tarps" like megamid etc. This is the sort of I've used in recent years (SilSelter & MSR Twin Peaks & Mt Hardwear Batwing). I usually also take a very non-waterproof light bivvy sack. It is especially effective against weather in winter when you can bank snow around the edges & not bad otherwise, though rain does splash in a little around the edges. I really like not having a floor when I spill things, or want to spit (I chew tobacco and camp alone).

There's no denying a well-designed double-wall tent is much warmer, but much heavier and typically smaller. I wanna get a Hex 3. It weighs about 2 pounds and you can nearly stand up and run laps inside. Scott used something like this for months in antarctica, and eventually froze & starved to death or something.

Okay I bought the Hex and slept in it three or four nights. It's completely as advertised and I like it.

Alicia and Ed summed it up for me: I want to stop the wildlife from joining me and I also like to rip open the pack and not have it blow around.

Besides black widows and water mocassins, I think the tent is a choice. I took a bottle of wine to Boreal Mountain in the Brooks Range, so I'm willing to carry weight if I think it's worth it.

Man - when Seward said:"I wanna get a Hex 3. It weighs about 2 pounds and you can nearly stand up and run laps inside. Scott used something like this for months in antarctica, and eventually froze & starved to death or something." -
if that's not effective marketing - nothing is! I want one of the "tents like Scott croaked in" !!!! You in an MBA program, perhaps? Just kidding - struck me funny is all. Perhaps sensory deprived from being in the office all day ....

Scott and his men may have run into some other issues - the shame of it was that they were only 11 miles from food and supplies when they died.

Bill S
I carry a tent so I can sleep comfortably through anything but cowbells. Add a Down Filled Airmat and I am as comfy as at home. I wouldn't go if I got cold or had to sleep on the ground - why? And I guess thats a counter question - why leave your tent at home unless you expect great weather and no bugs, bears, lions, scorpions, black widows, black mambas, etc? I do think animals give some "space" credibility to tents because they cant see through them so they must be rocks.
Is sleeping on the ground in a bivy more sporting? Try this - get in your bivy and have a friend spray you with a hose for a couple hours.
Jim S

let me add to Jim's suggestion...

get in the bivy, have several friends drink mass quantities of beer while standing above you and they can do that old Irish toast on you.

Jim and Ed,

In your last posts, I think you missed the point of the original question. More broadly, the question comes down to "why do you need (name any piece of gear) on this particular outing?" Jim, you have been keeping a very complete spreadsheet of your gear, its weights, and whether used (and you have advocated such a list for years for everyone). That is exactly the approach suggested by the original question.

I could ahve stated it as "why take an expedition tent?" or "why take a family tent?" or "why use a tarp tent?" Some of the answers were pretty thoughtful - "I like to see the stars" or "I am uncomfortable about the spiders/ants/snakes/bears (as if a tent would keep a determined bear away)". People ask on this forum about gear all the time, often with the idea of "my buddy/the salesperson at the store insists that I heed this vital item - do I really need it/ why do I need it?" or similar questions. A good example is a GPSr - the store clerks will tell you "you will never get lost again" - wrong! I found yet another failure mode on my polar visit this past month. If I were depending on that widget in the kind of featureless whiteout, I would still be out there on the ice with no landmarks in sight.

Tents serve a purpose. The question in essence is what is the purpose of taking a tent on an outing. In some cases, just throwing the sleeping bag out on the ground is plenty good. In other cases, a full-on expedition tent is needed. In other cases, the "clamshells" we had at Patriot Hills are more appropriate, and in still others the kind of "portable habitat" I saw one person experimenting with is more appropriate. So, rephrasing, why one rather than another?

Bill, we completely understand the point of the original post.

We just can't refuse an opportunity to do a little chain yanking.

Chains are too heavy to take on climbing or backpacking trips. And my 4WD doesn´t need chains. They are ok for anchoring canoes and kayaks, though. Oh, wait, I forgot, you displaced Pittsburghers are into things like whips and chains.

"Scott and his men may have run into some other issues"
Do ya think?
I've read a bit about Scott,Amundsen and Shackleton and seen some good documentaries about them. Scott seemed to be the one who fared the worst because of how he thought the expedition should have been done. He had a tractor and ponies instead of dogs, which was not a wise decision from the start.

Some of his last letters to his wife have just been published in full. Some of the stuff from one of his expeditions is in a museum in Christchurch at the university if I remember right.

It all seems sort of pointless to argue about the need of a tent, from what I read above. I could compare the arguement in parallel fashion to asking 'Why do I need a first aid kit'. In most cases I wouldn't. I may never need it. But I sure as heck will carry one just in case. And some argue they would never need one, even if they really did need to use the kit. (Toughman syndrome). As a kid, I never used mercurochrome or bandaids or that purple stuff, and I have the scars to show for it. Thankfully, I never had a bad infection.

So I suspect that it's a personal question only the OP can answer. How much do you want to need a tent? Will you change your opinion as you age? You certainly can get by without one, but do you want to?

All of this is just my opinion, mind you. Nothing difinitive.

Blackbeard

Bill S
gee Bill, I guess you didn't understand my answer. I carry a tent so that I have a light weight medium sized space that I can call home temporarily which limits the access of everything outside from rain to animals, insulates me from wind and to a certain degree cold. Thats the place it fills in my chart.

Why do I need stove, because it gives me heat to make hot water for coffee.

Why do I need boots - so I don't lose my toes.

?????????????????
Jim S

Jimmy, I understand part of your answer. But I don't understand the point of having someone in the wilderness spraying you with a hose, nor do I recall reading or hearing that tents and such had any bearing on being "sporting".

Oh, on a semi-serious note, two of the folks who passed through our camp while we were "stranded" were Ray Jardine and his wife - ultralight backpacking in polar regions????

The women's group that did Shackleton's last degree (from the point where Shackleton had to turn around when headed for the South Pole the rest of the way to the SP, something like 108 miles) took a group photo at the pole in their bikinis - talk about ultralight! And yes, for real. I've seen the photo.

However, Bill, in New York one can very nicely use a tarp shelter for at the very least the best four or five months of camping, with no fear of insects or excessive cold.

Also, oftentimes, in both hottest and coldest seasons, they may be good or better than most tents.

Dumbest of local animals are primarily rhodents, able to gnaw into tents, and only a serious worry in wooden trail shelters.