Do kids spend enough time in the woods?

In the "What do you get out of the backcountry?" thread Alicia wrote:

Quote:

I’m sure many of you have heard of Richard Louv’s book “Last Child in the Woods,” in which he talks about nature-deficit disorder and why all of us, including kids, truly need nature. The book is right up this thread’s alley. I just opened my copy and saw an appropriate quote in a chapter header.

“I go to nature to be soothed and healed, and to have my sense put in tune once more.” –John Burroughs.

It bothers me more and more everyday i meet some "city" mother here in north carolina that would never allow their child to wander into the woods, or own a slingshot or pocketknife, or swim in the local river...

I live in Charlotte, NC and while I was raised in the country town of Evans, GA (suburb of augusta) a lot of the folks i know/hang out with are very much "city folks." they don't understand the purpose of hiking, just for the heck of it. i've even had people, men and women, comment on how weird it is that i carry a pocketknife with me. i havent read the above book, last child in the woods, but i'm looking forward to it. i feel that with the advancing of modern day technology, more and more kids are being deprived of what nature really is...

[Edited by Dave: fixed quote and added link]

I understand your concern, but if we keep destroying wild places to extract resources our build McMansions it really won't matter, will it?
Sorry - the cynic in me sneaks out once in a while - or perhaps it's the frustrated activist - not sure.
My (far) better half and I have managed to raise three children to their teens / early adulthood years, and have included them on wanderings and hikes since before their first year. Their appreciation for wandering comes and goes, but their appreciation of wild places and the need to not build on every square inch is strong and constant.
As for the city verus country - I grew up in Suburban Philadelphia - which isn't exactly a nature conservancy - but my friends and I were in the woods every chance we got. I've got some good friends who live in Center City Philadelphia who are avid rock climbers and back packers - but perhaps the "city" is more of a state of mind or assumed posture. Or maybe Southerners are just different - dunno.
Kids don't spend enough time in the woods - but typically that's because their parents aren't willing to get dirty - why we, as a nation, are so terrified of dirt and germs I'll never know - unless one of yus can explain it to me!

No, kids have everything delivered to them instead of using skill to accomplish something. It seems like kids these days lack a lot of charecter that was just natural for previous generations. It really makes me sad that we make it so easy to reach "wilderness" areas instead of leaving them wild! We need rough, untouched areas to explore.

It's -45F today in Fairbanks, AK and I would love to grab a bunch of kids and take them outside. "OK kids, let's learn how to layer clothing for the cold!" argh...

Warning: I recommend “Last Child in the Woods” to anyone who will listen to me. I hope it will wake more people up to the issue of kids and nature. So I’m inclined to go on and on about it.

While the fragmentation of wild and natural places plays a big part in the whole “nature-deficit” phenomenon, it’s not the only contributor. A lot of it is cultural. In “Last Child in the Woods” Louv talks about how important it is for all kids, whether they live in urban, suburban, or rural areas, to have access to natural places to play. That doesn’t have to mean only huge, majestic acres of forest to roam in (although that’s fun too), but it can be a vacant lot, a field, a little stream, or a city park that’s been properly planed for play. What matters is that they have a space AND the opportunity and time to explore it and get to know it on their own level.

In addition to less access, there are a number of other reasons kids aren’t outside much anymore: such as overly-protective parents, over-scheduled kids, too much time plugged in, sprawl, fear of strangers, a litigious society that doesn’t let kids climb trees in parks, poorly designed black-topped playgrounds, less time for open-ended play, and so on that contribute to this phenomenon.

Also, kids today may be more informed about environmental issues, but they’re not as connected to their own environment. They might be able to tell you facts about the rainforest or why they’re animal rights activists, but they couldn’t identify the birds in their own backyard and they have no experience with animals beyond their own pets. There is a huge divide between individuals and nature. Ultimately, what we don’t know we won’t appreciate and therefore won’t value and protect.

Another quote for you:

“People who care conserve; people who don’t know don’t care. What is the extinction of the condor to a child who has never known a wren?” –Naturalist Robert Michael Pyle

Louv also shows how nature is important and essential to our physical and mental health (helps fight depression, attention deficit, hyperactivity, obesity, raises test scores, lowers stress, and so on).

So, I think it’s important to protect open and natural spaces and access to them, not only for their own intrinsic value, but also for society’s well being. However it’s just as important that parents and other adults help kids get out into nature. That’s the biggest struggle. Even spending an hour in the backyard every day is better than what most people do now. The National Wildlife Federation now suggests that families have a daily "Green Hour" of outside play and learning (http://greenhour.blogspot.com/). I’ve also heard of a “No Child Left Inside” campaign. So there are some positive acts resulting from Louv’s book.

Anyway, I obviously recommend “Last Child in the Woods” highly. It’s very thought-provoking and eye-opening, even for those of us who think we already know enough about the issue. I learned a lot from it. While reading it I often was tempted to wake up my sleeping toddler (a kid who went on his first hike at one month) just to take him outside yet again.

If you’ve read this far thanks for bearing with me.

ALICIA FOR PRESIDENT 2008!!!
FIRST LAW TO CREATE? FORCE KIDS OUTSIDE!

Thanks for the vote of confidence!

Unfortunately there’s some pretty tough competition out there for presidential nominations…namely our own Bill S (http://www.trailspace.com/forums/climbing/topics/36093.html#36102). I don’t think I have what it takes to go up against him! Maybe running mates?

"Thanks for the vote of confidence!

Unfortunately there’s some pretty tough competition out there for presidential nominations…namely our own Bill S (http://www.trailspace.com/forums/climbing/topics/36093.html#36102). I don’t think I have what it takes to go up against him! Maybe running mates?"

cool - a ticket I could actually vote FOR. If you need a singer/songwriter who tends to write songs against war, environmental rape and against social injustice to help out - just drop me a note! Friends of mine consider me to be a re-incarnation of Phil Ochs ....have guitar will travel!

Steve

I'll have to pick up a copy of the book and read it. Growing up my mom used to yell out "get outside and play." In her case it was a means to preserve her sanity but there are other benefits as well. Perhaps we all need to do this more often.

I scantilly reread the posts on this thread after an incident this past weekend. I don't know it will fit exactly, but it made me feel good for a while.

I have some bottom land on my property that has a stream bordering my property line. It's sort of wooded, and the deer use it to hide from hunters, just to sort of describe the setting. I was cutting up some fallen trees, and one of my dogs started raising a fuss over something. I went to check it out and found 3 young chaps trying to cross the stream.

I asked why they were so intent on crossing over to what is nothing more than scrub, and they told me they were trying to get a big yellow car. I had to have them show me, as they really had my interest. Turns out, it was one of those battery powered cars kids get nowadays that had floated down the stream in high water. It was destroyed, but this was their adventure for the day. They had a piece of rope and some other things like big sticks and such to try to use for tools.

I helped them retrieve it and get it back across the stream, and they left. It brought back some nice 'adventure' memories of my own.

My town is a small town here in WV. We still have parades down main street for the things that matter, and most everyone goes to home football games on Fridays. There isn't a lot to do here in the way of fancy entertainment. The people here aren't wealthy, as a rule, in fact most are probably considered poor. The high school isn't big, and there is a constant battle here to keep it in town and avoid consolidation, yet it produces some of the finest young people I have met.

The point of the story is that I feel we have made kids the way they are today. These 3 young boys looked as though they didn't have the GameBoys, XBoxes, and such which may make them less likely to find something outside to entertain themselves. I would guess their parents probably scooted them out the door to make them get out and away. The whole scene reminded me a little of the movie 'Stand By Me', as these fellows looked liked they were cast members.

It's not enough, though, to make kids go outside and play. We have to provide them with the safe environment in which they can use their imagination without worrying. Neither parents nor children will be able to enjoy the outdoors if there is constant worries in the back of the mind about the dangers of today's world.

What a world we have created! I sure wish it were like it was when I was a kid.

Blackbeard

I think you confuse wealthy with rich. Seems to me that the people of your town have more wealth than many rich people I know.

Adam,

Another thing that comes with the richness of my town is honesty. A very pleasant side effect of knowing what really matters in the world.

Thank you for your comment.

Blackbeard

Adam, Blackbeard and others -

I read the comments with great interest and I have to agree - we have created quite a world. We tend to have more money and more "things" than our parents ever thought anyone could have, we have fantastic material wealth, but along the path to a "wealthy" society we've lost a lot.

We've traded the ability to entertain ourselves, the art of conversation and polite disagreement and debate, a sense of personal responsibility and to a large extent, we've traded a sense of ourselves for material wealth.

Even our "adventures" come pre-packaged. For enough money you can be part of an "expedition" to many parts of the world, where your every need is (supposed to be) tended to.

I've worked hard, as a parent, to instill a sense of curiosity in my three children, that gut instinct to find out what's over the next rise, to discover something new - even if it's just new to them. I'll admit that when they were younger, they probably didn't appreciate the sleeping bag or backpack for Christmas as much as they'd have appreciated an game system of some sort, or a TV in their bedrooms (which could occupy the space taken by their bookshelves) - but as they've gotten older and have had to face the world they seem far better prepared for it than some of their friends who didn't wander the woods for fun - who didn't just take the canoe and paddle around the lake or out to that island -

The parenting method my far better half and I selected probably wasn't modern, but we've managed to rear three good problem solvers, who are able to fend for themselves in most situations, who have the confidence to strike out on their own paths. Now, they know we'll always be there for them - sort of like a good belayer when you're trying to push that 5.11 move for the first time - but like any belayer worth his/her salt, we leave enough slack in the rope so that they can make their own moves.

Funny - the best advice I got when our first child was born was from a friend of mine - who at the time happened to be my boss - he's a brilliant engineer - has some children of his own and his advice was beautiful in its simplicity: "they bounce". Yep - they do - especially if you give 'em the slack to fall.

I've rambled enough -

Peace

Steve

Alicia said -

"Thanks for the vote of confidence!

Unfortunately there’s some pretty tough competition out there for presidential nominations…namely our own Bill S (http://www.trailspace.com/forums/climbing/topics/36093.html#36102). I don’t think I have what it takes to go up against him! Maybe running mates?"

While it is true that I would make a far better President than any of the 500 candidates currently declaring themselves, as a certain former President said "I choose not to run, and if elected, I choose not to serve". Besides, Alicia, as you know from comments I made a couple nights ago at dinner (and by the way, a very deep-felt thanks to you and Dave for hosting Brian in SLC and me and the enjoyable conversation), I am anti-political and anti-politician (recall the "curse on both their houses" comment).

Just in case anyone gets the wrong idea, it isn't so much that I would make a good, or even barely passable, President, as it is that I think the current choices are even worse. At least I do not have any special interests to which I am beholden (well, not any who have any money to donate - just those of us dirtbag tree-hugging, cliff-climbing, woodsy folks, trying to find enough snow for our skis, and believing "In Wildness is the Preservation of the World").

To add to the "wealth-rich" confusion, my richness is in the wealth of my life's experiences, and my wealth is in the richness of the time spend with my friends and acquaintances in the wild places of the planet.

Bill, you and Brian in SLC are very welcome for the dinner the other night. It was a lot of fun meeting you both face to face, especially after reading so many of your thoughtful posts.

I’ve enjoyed reading this thread and everyone’s personal experiences and comments on raising outdoors-minded, self-sufficient kids. With my own toddler I’ve thought a lot about how the choices we make will influence him. I want to give him more opportunities for experiences that encourage his curiosity and imagination, rather than yet more things. I also told myself that I wouldn’t be a parent who cared if my kid got dirty or wet (assuming they were safe).

Only time will tell how it works out. But, so far, he’s gone hiking and backpacking and been happy entertaining himself with elaborate stories involving sticks and rocks and talking about what he sees. I don’t think that my son’s imagination is unique. I think every kid has the potential for that type of deep imagination, but we do a poor job of encouraging it with the toys we offer and activities we choose.

Parents need to make sure kids have the opportunity for safe, open-ended play, like those kids Blackbeard saw exploring the woods and stream. Too few kids get to do that now, whether due to real or imagined dangers.

It occurred to me that this thread echoes a bit the thread on important pack items. Ultimately most people pointed out their experiences and knowledge as the most important thing they can bring outdoors. It seems like that’s really what we want to give kids: a wealth of experiences (many of them outdoors) that lead to self-sufficiency and self knowledge.

Alicia -
I only saw your son for a couple minutes when you brought him with you to the show, but my observation is that your son is a delight, even if a bit shy of Old GreyBeards (hmmm, maybe you rightfully warned him about greybearded strangers ;>D). Seriously, though, I think you and Dave are doing a great job with him.

I agree with the folks saying that more kids today need to get out into the wild. My parents started taking me out into the woods and hills by the time I was 6 months old (going by the photos). Same with Barb's parents. And we took Young Son out almost from the day he was born (first bike ride was at 2 weeks, using a kiddie pack). I will admit to being a bit apprehensive when first letting him walk and bike to school unattended, or even going out by himself to play, what with all the stories about kids being abducted. When I was growing up in that little village in Arizona, our parents had no concern with us wandering out into the desert (it was right there, just out the back gate). Somehow we survived (no, not "somehow" - our parents taught us what to look for and how to deal with things out there). No video games, no computers, no cars. Well, the last isn't quite true - I learned to drive the tractor when I was 8 or 9 and the pickup when I was 9 or 10. But that was part of the chores.

I do think parents and teachers these days are over-protective. As was already posted "kids bounce", and even when they get scrapes and breaks, they heal. I also think the current fashion of "not letting children fail" is wrong-headed. Hey, we all fail lots of times. We all fall short of perfection. Question is, how do we deal with it? Is it a learning experience, or do we let it drive us into depression? As the song says, "pick yourself up, dust yourself off, do it all over again."

Thanks, Bill. I'm sure if my son spent a just a few more minutes with you, you'd have soon been his new best friend.

I think you and the other posters are right about over-protection. You're right that we all fail at times (even at parenting), but what matters is how we deal with it.

I read a column today in the October 2004 TrailRunner magazine that ended with “Don’t be afraid to lose. It’s how to win.”

The postscript says about the column’s author: “The winner of 100 out of 217 races in 216 weeks, Bernie Boettcher can only say, ‘I lost 117 times. There’s a lot left to learn.’”

I thought that was a great attitude.

Okay, enough quotes from me for now…