More bear stuff....

2:45 p.m. on August 30, 2011 (EDT)
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Here is one for ya on the whole "hunting" of bears.

Yesterday I was informed by an associate that a black bear was spotted on the outskirts of a town(Uniontown Pa) where I went to highschool. They were having their Italian festival in the center of town.

Well they did not address the issue early when the 350 lb bear was first spotted on the outskirts of town but they sure did when it was seen in town in route for some freshly prepared gnocchi. 

The bear was tagged as a nuisance bear awhile back so why didn't they dart the bear and relocate it then?

The bear tried to get away and the local police force treed it and unloaded on it. The bear did not act aggressive etc. 

They had a call to the local game commision in and they were sending someone with a tranquilizer rifle but apparently the local police force didn't think they got there quick enough. 

To me this was a senseless killing of a beautiful animal.

I caught alot of slack for publicly voicing my opinion on how this whole situation was handled. My biggest issue was that if addressed early when the bear was initially spotted this whole thing could have been avoided. The bear was being a bear, looking to enjoy some good food...

I am just wondering if the bear mount will make it to the local police station wall. This whole situation makes me sick. 

Anywho, enough of my rant...

2:55 p.m. on August 30, 2011 (EDT)
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It's a sort of species-racism:  Our species above all else, which is also a sort of chosen people complex, the City on the Hill, etc. 

3:11 p.m. on August 30, 2011 (EDT)
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I know what ya mean Tipi. I just hate this kind of thing with a passion. I am just waiting to hit mile marker 50 someday on my one of my favorite local trails and see a sign stating that it is being designated as the future site of a Super Mega Wally-World. Ugghhhhh..... 

Nothing ceases to amaze me anymore. 

"Hey look, its a bear. They always kill people. Hurry up, shoot it. But its in a tree... Shoot it anyways, it may take its aggression out on a poor defenseless squirrel or it may fly out of the tree and tackle someone. What? You didn't know bears could fly? I saw it on the Sci-fy channel."... guns blaze.

That just seems to be the kind of logic people use at times.

3:24 p.m. on August 30, 2011 (EDT)
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We still live in a carnivorous dark age, and I mean this in the worst possible way.  I'm no PETA type, but we'll someday look back at the way we treat animals in disbelief.  Thing is, we are mammals and animals too.

3:26 p.m. on August 30, 2011 (EDT)
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Yeah, but we matter they don't.... at least that seems to be the general consensus. 

4:56 p.m. on August 30, 2011 (EDT)
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I hate to tell you but relocating bears is not good anymore.  The population has grown enough that the places where they are safe from humans are full of bears already. Relocation often ends in starvation because there's not enough food for it which is why there aren't any bears there or killing/being killed by the local bear whose territory it was relocated to. 

What happened to that bear was ridiculous and a shame.  We had a similar problem recently where I live.  Fortunately the bear wasn't killed.  It was just taken back to the Ocala National Forest and set loose where it came from. We're still wondering how the bear got where it was without being hit by a car or even spotted beforehand.

I think we are going to have to manage bears by hunting them in remote areas to relieve the population pressure that is causing them to expand their range into human populations.

In Florida we have problems with alligators.  30-35 years ago you rarely heard about an alligator coming in contact with people.  They had been hunted for their hides and they were few that lived close to humans.   You could find them in swamps, remote lakes and uninhabited stretches of rivers. 

I don't know when it became illegal to hunt them but the population has rebounded.  You can 4-6 foot gators in the middle of cities. I've seen 3 or 4 news casts about gators in somebody's back yard or pool.  Right now we have a 1 or 2 night hunt each year.  The problem is this small hunt doesn't get enough of them to reduce the population pressure in the swamps etc.  Louisiana has a fairly long hunting season on them and issues a set number of tags to control the harvest.  They even have a "reality" show called "Swamp People" on the History Channel. It's the cajun version of Deadliest Catch. More amusing though. In the episode I watched somebody forgot to load the gun and kept trying to fire it. The other person who had the gator on the line was very upset to say the least.

 

5:37 p.m. on August 30, 2011 (EDT)
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ocalacomputerguy said:

I hate to tell you but relocating bears is not good anymore.  

 If you knew the layout of the land in this area you would understand why I thought of this. Uniontown is located at the base of the Laurel Highlands. If they would have tranq'd the animal and relocated it many mile back in the hills I highly doubt it would have came back. 

This is a very large region that spans over quite a few counties in SW Pa with some pretty rugged, remote, terrain. One of the many reasons why I love it.

1:24 a.m. on August 31, 2011 (EDT)
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Rick-Pittsburgh said:

Here is one for ya on the whole "hunting" of bears.

Yesterday I was informed by an associate that a black bear was spotted on the outskirts of a town(Uniontown Pa) where I went to highschool. They were having their Italian festival in the center of town.

Well they did not address the issue early when the 350 lb bear was first spotted on the outskirts of town but they sure did when it was seen in town in route for some freshly prepared gnocchi. 

The bear was tagged as a nuisance bear awhile back so why didn't they dart the bear and relocate it then?

The bear tried to get away and the local police force treed it and unloaded on it. The bear did not act aggressive etc. 

They had a call to the local game commision in and they were sending someone with a tranquilizer rifle but apparently the local police force didn't think they got there quick enough. 

To me this was a senseless killing of a beautiful animal.

I caught alot of slack for publicly voicing my opinion on how this whole situation was handled. My biggest issue was that if addressed early when the bear was initially spotted this whole thing could have been avoided. The bear was being a bear, looking to enjoy some good food...

I am just wondering if the bear mount will make it to the local police station wall. This whole situation makes me sick. 

Anywho, enough of my rant...

 

AGREED

9:05 a.m. on August 31, 2011 (EDT)
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its pathetic, maybe a relocation in that area might not have been good because of the higher numbers of black bears, but relocate them to other states where their population hasnt rebounded to its normal capacity, such as missouri, southern illinois, indiana wisconsin. it all goes back to they dont have enough space for the animals where humans feel "safe" we have over taken this country with population booms, cities, towns amusement parks, etc. the people who argue and say theres too many bears its a populated area, those are the idiots, look at the deer, elk pronghorn etc population, more people are killed each year by hitting these animals with there cars than any attacks by predators (black bears, grizzlies, large cats, gators wolves etc...) if we released the predators back into the wild all animals would keep themselves in check, its called natural selection, right now there is a boom in prey (deer) you release the predators they start killing of the deer then the predators numbers drop because now theres less food, then the deer population comes back and the chain starts all over again. wait i forgot the missing link in that chain humans, nope never mind this wont work.

11:36 p.m. on August 31, 2011 (EDT)
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dwoods8581 said:

its pathetic, maybe a relocation in that area might not have been good because of the higher numbers of black bears, but relocate them to other states where their population hasnt rebounded to its normal capacity, such as missouri, southern illinois, indiana wisconsin. it all goes back to they dont have enough space for the animals where humans feel "safe" we have over taken this country with population booms, cities, towns amusement parks, etc. the people who argue and say theres too many bears its a populated area, those are the idiots, look at the deer, elk pronghorn etc population, more people are killed each year by hitting these animals with there cars than any attacks by predators (black bears, grizzlies, large cats, gators wolves etc...) if we released the predators back into the wild all animals would keep themselves in check, its called natural selection, right now there is a boom in prey (deer) you release the predators they start killing of the deer then the predators numbers drop because now theres less food, then the deer population comes back and the chain starts all over again. wait i forgot the missing link in that chain humans, nope never mind this wont work.

 I agree with so much of what you are saying but the problem is that humans have invaded all of the native lands that once belonged to the animals and have skewed it so much through over population that there is no conceviable way to return the habitat to it's natural state with the existing population of humans.  Unless we reduce the human population to levels that allow nature to have some of it's own land with out our interference all will be lost in regards to what nature (without man) was ment to be.  Soon all that will be left is little zoo plots of land with "wild" animals keep and fed by man.  Look at Europe.  Look Johnny, The mighty Buffalo, Once ranging through out much of the American west, was brought almost to the edge of extintion by the thoughless actions of man.  Now we keep them on farms and selected National Parks.  Why did we do that daddy.............................. 

9:14 a.m. on September 1, 2011 (EDT)
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When anyone mentions speciesism it makes me remember the book they made me read in college that said it was wrong if my house were on fire and I chose to rescue my son over my dog. 

We treat animals WAY better than they treat each other.

9:58 a.m. on September 1, 2011 (EDT)
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Rick-Pittsburgh said:

...I caught alot of slack for publicly voicing my opinion on how this whole situation was handled. My biggest issue was that if addressed early when the bear was initially spotted this whole thing could have been avoided. The bear was being a bear, looking to enjoy some good food...

I am just wondering if the bear mount will make it to the local police station wall. This whole situation makes me sick. 

Anywho, enough of my rant...

 In my job, I often find myself being a voice of reason when there "seems" to be no other option but killing...and I get flack for it too, believe me!

As far as relocation goes.  It costs money to transport across state lines, and there are federal laws that may prohibit it. Relocating withing a state may be useless too.  Some years ago, 15 black bears were relocated some 60 miles from Hickory Run state Park.  Roughly 2 weeks later all but one had made their way back to the park, on their own.  Bears are territorial. State game officials know it, but they do relocations anyway, to appease politicians and taxpayers. The Hickory Run relocation didn't take 15 bears from one place and put them in various others. In actuality, it placed 15 bears in every single area, populated and otherwise, between the capture site and the relocation site, creating havoc for bears AND the people in between! Solution? No.

10:25 a.m. on September 1, 2011 (EDT)
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@f_klock- Good point. I can understand what you are saying completely.

I dunno. I guess from my view of the situation there were other options instead of the "hey theres a bear on the outskirts of town, well lets just wait and see what it does approach."

I know how bears will travel many miles when they get a slight sniff of something tasty. One of the many reasons I bear bag in the hills even when others deem it unnecessary. 

10:40 a.m. on September 1, 2011 (EDT)
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I definitely understand and empathize with your frustration.  

Unfortunately, a large percentage of bears that are relocated from GSMNP to the Cherokee NF end up either finding their way back to the park or seeking out the closest campground to  begin raiding again. That combination of associating people with food and a loss of fear is usually permanent, making it quite rare to successfully relocate a habituated animal.  

1:18 p.m. on September 1, 2011 (EDT)
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I think what this whole thread boils down to is this.

If you have a single bear who wanders into town and it's not aggressive, tranq it (hopefully after scaring it up a tree, setting off some firecrackers and pepper spraying it) and haul it back to the woods.  If it continues to come back (3 strikes you're out?) the most humane thing to do to it maybe to kill it if you can't find a zoo that wants it. If people live in a place where there are lots of bears like Yosemite West or someplace where bears take the proper precautions with your garbage and food.

However if one charges you while you are hauling in your groceries or throwing your garbage into the bear proof bin you have every right to treat it like a stray aggressive pit bull.

Most of all people need to not over react and to use common sense (an oxymoron if there ever was one because it isn't common).  Educating the public would be good also but has to be done on a mass scale.

Maybe we should replace a few of the "reality" shows with shows like Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom one night a week on prime time. They're still producing the show. On the website's home page they had a couple of excerpts from the old show.  One of them was Marlin and Stan wrestling a huge python in a river trying to stuff it in a sack. Watch it. If that's not what you call reality I don't know what is. Come up with one for each network and call it "America's Nature Hour." I'm sure that plenty of advertisers would jump in on the nature band wagon and brag about what they were doing for nature.

4:09 p.m. on September 1, 2011 (EDT)
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ocala,

The "nature" shows are quite unnatural. Typically, one of these shows will fence off about an acre of land and introduce three times the amount of wildlife they wish to film. If that doesn't provide the interactions they require, the producers will force the animals toward one another or edit the film to make them appear close. Truly the modern "reality".

I would rather have films of cornered bears tearing up a pack of hounds or a cornered raccoon slashing at a Plott hound until the dog retreats. Maybe show a black bear eating refuse from a garbage dump, or burying its muzzle in the pile of stale doughnuts left for it as bait by a Maine guide. Also include shots of someone mauled and partially eaten by Br'er Bear.

That is nature as it truly exists. Just as the Redman was never "the noble savage" and Bambi's mother tasted great; let us show bears as they really are, not in the Disney design.

JMO

4:46 p.m. on September 1, 2011 (EDT)
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9:23 a.m. on September 2, 2011 (EDT)
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Must have been a young bear, they usually don't give up a meal that easy.  The lady was lucky  she was not attacked.  

I wonder how the dog was.  I would think the pup couldn't have survived the grab.  We do love our pets.

11:00 a.m. on September 2, 2011 (EDT)
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Re: More bear stuff

The dog suffered minor scrapes and cuts.  Didn't need a trip to the Vet.  You can follow this link http://juneauempire.com/local/2011-08-30/woman-punches-bear-save-her-dog#.Tl5ft82TzDc which came off the page Rick posted to the another story.  Has a picture of the girl and dog and a good description of what happened.  She punched it in the nose.  Maybe the bear was related to a shark?

4:53 p.m. on September 2, 2011 (EDT)
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That's wild.  Not at all what I would have expected.

6:04 p.m. on September 2, 2011 (EDT)
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Nice soft mouth on that bear! Are they sure it wasn't a Newfoundland in love? Simply trying to elope with its beloved? (The biological difficulty of propagation would be extreme.)

6:24 p.m. on September 2, 2011 (EDT)
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omw, thats funny...

5:02 p.m. on September 6, 2011 (EDT)
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putting bear attacks in perspective:

“for each person killed by a black bear attack there are 13 people killed by snakes, 17 by spiders, 45 by dogs, 120 by bees, 150 by tornadoes, 374 by lightning, and 60,000 by humans.”

5:11 p.m. on September 6, 2011 (EDT)
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leadbelly2550, ya left out rabid squirrels... Just kiddin, thanks for the numbers. I personally think if respected blackies are borderline harmless. At least from my encounters they have proved to be. 

6:54 a.m. on September 7, 2011 (EDT)
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Lightning kills twice as many people than tornadoes? 

8:24 a.m. on September 7, 2011 (EDT)
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Grew up in the heart of black bear country in northern Wisconsin.  They always preferred to go the other way.  Most did not not like being around humans.  Only if the food supply was low would they wander into town to raid the trash cans.  Usually, just a loud shout would send them running.

9:31 a.m. on September 7, 2011 (EDT)
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It's the Grizzly/Brown Bear that you have to look out for.  Black bears only get aggressive defending their young or (I'm guessing here) if you try to take away their food. 

10:33 a.m. on September 7, 2011 (EDT)
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Here's an oddity:

I live now, in Maryland.   On the Del-Mar-Va Peninsula ... sometimes called Maryland's "Eastern Shore" (near the Chesapeake and the Atlantic).

My next-door neighbor is a prominent Maryland State politician, and former Superintendent of the Maryland State Police.

Two years ago, he snapped a photo of a black bear in his front yard, and the pic was on the front-page in large headlines, of the regional newspaper.   The bear had been spotted in the area, but until then, no one had managed to get a picture of it.

Bears are NOT supposed to be anywhere near the region.

Was talking with him the other day; asking if he has seen any more bears.   His response?   "Only my (his) wife".   :)    She was present, and not too pleased with his comment.

                                                        ~r2~

11:05 a.m. on September 7, 2011 (EDT)
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ocalacomputerguy said:

It's the Grizzly/Brown Bear that you have to look out for.  Black bears only get aggressive defending their young or (I'm guessing here) if you try to take away their food. 

 Well, mostly. It would  be more accurate to say Black Bears almost never predate on humans, and the very rare instances of acting with violent intent is due to disturbing an one with food or a mother with young. 

12:16 p.m. on September 7, 2011 (EDT)
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"There are lies, dam* lies, and statistics." :)

Most people in the US have (probably) never seen a black bear in the wild. However, snakes, spiders, dogs, etc. are prolific in all urban, suburban, and rural environs. Thus, for every fatal bear attack, people have probably encountered millions of the varmints above; thus the difference in numbers.

I recall when a state boasted that their yearly highway fatalities were now less than deaths by firearms. Unfortunately, they didn't mention that this was entirely due to an increase in the number of deaths by firearms. : )

As was noted in another thread on bears, most black bear maulings are done by healthy, male predator bears.

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