Evernew Appalachian Kit

2:01 p.m. on March 24, 2014 (EDT)
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The Evernew Appalachian Kit cook set is a phenomenal alcohol/bio-fuel kit I thought all would enjoy. 

Over the past weekend, I completed my review of this kit with an update that included incorporating bio-fuel as well as using the alcohol stove without the windscreen/pot support.

If any of you have any questions about this kit, I'm more than happy to assist.

click link...

http://www.trailspace.com/gear/evernew/appalachian-set/#review30538

5:06 p.m. on March 24, 2014 (EDT)
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That's a brilliant little system, David, but man is that price tag a deal-breaker!

6:00 p.m. on March 24, 2014 (EDT)
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I can see the price with everything being Titanium..A regular titanium pots runs from 40-80 so the market dictates...Nice system tho..

6:19 p.m. on March 24, 2014 (EDT)
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I, of course, gentlemen, wish the price was more favorable, too. However, I've had the system for years without failure or damage and sincerely appreciate the lack of weight over what I was carrying.

There will be more competition in the future, and the prices will eventually fall.

I tend to search the internet for the latest/greatest deals, as most of us do, but when I really want something bad enough, I figure, I only live once and it may as well be ultra-light.

8:32 p.m. on March 24, 2014 (EDT)
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Price is par for the course. While the weight savings are to be expected from an all-titanium system, it's the size of this I really find appealing. Dang, that packs down small. I'm going to give the Caldera Cone a go this season, but it's so big that it requires its own storage container and is rendered useless if the dovetail joint gets bent. Maybe next year's Christmas wishlist, for this one.

9:57 p.m. on March 24, 2014 (EDT)
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The Caldera Cone is a nice system for the price. Are you going for the Ti-Tri, Eric?

10:23 p.m. on March 24, 2014 (EDT)
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Nah. Just got the standard one, though I did spring for the adjustable simmer rings.

8:54 a.m. on March 26, 2014 (EDT)
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Eric Labanauskas said:

I'm going to give the Caldera Cone a go this season, but it's so big that it requires its own storage container and is rendered useless if the dovetail joint gets bent.

This is my third hiking season using the Caldera Cone stove.  I've never had the dovetail joint get bent.  If it ever did, it seems easy enough to crimp back into position using the pliers of a multi-tool.

9:31 a.m. on March 26, 2014 (EDT)
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The simmer rings, Eric, look very innovative and seem to be a wise purchase. Let us know how this system works. Trail Designs really seems to be on the ball!!

@Earth Pig That's good information to know, thanks for sharing!! Three seasons without default is very good news!

12:12 p.m. on March 26, 2014 (EDT)
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@DD - Will do, David! Yet to see a review of the simmer rings (or very much information at all on them, period), so it'll be good to put it out there for folks...once I can really run it through its paces!

@EP -  I know there's a titanium reinforcement on one half, and you'd have to put forth considerable effort to put a kink in it. I'm torn on the caddy. The thing's damn near bombproof, but it comes at the cost of being weighty. Entertaining the thought of using a CCF sleeping pad (GG Thinlight) for my double-layered hammock, and rolling the windscreen/pot support in that. Would buy me more pack space and bring my current volume/weight down, too. Caddy doesn't leave much room for other things, either - at least with my cooking pot, I can fit everything save the kitchen sink in there. 

1:07 p.m. on March 26, 2014 (EDT)
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For me, the weight of the caddy is offset by its functionality.

The caddy holds everything for the stove -- except my cooking pot/kettle (I use the MSR Titan Kettle).  Windscreen, alcohol stove, fuel bottle, measuring device and eating utensil all fit nicely inside the caddy.  As a bonus, the top portion of the caddy serves as my coffee cup. 

I then use my kettle as a storage space for some food items -- instant coffee/tea bags, salt/pepper/spice kit, a pack of instant oatmeal, etc.  I cram as much as I can inside the kettle, since space is at a premium in my backpack proper.

I think your idea of ditching the caddy and rolling the windscreen inside your sleeping pad will work.  And definitely save some ounces.

10:16 p.m. on March 26, 2014 (EDT)
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Sorry for inadvertently hijacking your thread, David! EP: my caddy is packed much the same as yours, plus the simmer rings, and minus the fuel bottle (stowed in an outside pocket on my pack). The simmer rings are made from titanium, but are really thin and their shape determines how efficiently they simmer. Because of that, I don't overpack my caddy. However, I've now got a 1.4L pot I'm able to fit my first aid, toiletries, and survival items all into. No point in packing an empty pot, and having those things inside a titanium container that's covered by a cozy and packed into a stuff sack means they're all well protected and easy to find. The CCF pad idea would be for longer hikes and warmer temps. Thanks for the attesting to the durability of the Caldera system...one of several pieces of gear I'm going to settle into this year and I'm happy to have a set rig!

10:21 p.m. on March 26, 2014 (EDT)
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No worries, Eric. All discussion is welcome and encouraged!! I enjoy the conversation!

8:12 a.m. on April 4, 2014 (EDT)
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I'd avoid Ti cooking pots and go aluminum for efficiency.  You want pots that conduct heat to the contents.  Ti is a poor heat conductor, while Al is a great conductor.

Ed

9:01 a.m. on April 4, 2014 (EDT)
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Hi Ed, thanks for the response!! Ti is relatively inert in comparison to Al. Al conducts heat tremendously more efficient than Ti, yes, but I don't want the Al leaching into my food, or any heavy metal, for that matter. Avoiding Ti pots may be a preference in terms of thermal conductivity for many but I'd much rather go with a rather inert, safer, material for heating foods... which is why I'll never use Al! Heavy metals are toxic and may cause nervous system damage! The less heavy metal your liver has to process the better! 

11:27 a.m. on April 4, 2014 (EDT)
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I'd avoid Ti cooking pots and go aluminum for efficiency.  You want pots that conduct heat to the contents.  Ti is a poor heat conductor, while Al is a great conductor.

Ed

 

Whenever I hear that it give me a chuckle and makes me wonder if the poster has any experience with what they speak. If they did, they would not be saying it. It is an internet meme, a complete fallacy that Ti is a poor choice for boiling water.

The fact is and this I have personally tested, my Ti pots with the same diameter bottom as my Al pots bring the water to boil almost to the second (the Ti pot was actually about 5 seconds faster). It is the pot diameter that matters so that is what folks should be acting concerned about, not the material when it comes to boiling times. Try it yourself and see. Use the same stove, the same amount of water and time it. Efficiency comes from a wider pot.

3:12 p.m. on April 4, 2014 (EDT)
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@ghostdog I completely agree with you! The surface area and whether or not the pot is touching the blue flame is more important than the material, as you said, there may be a difference in seconds when comparing various metals. 

There's nothing incorrect at all about Ed's decision and/or preference to go with Al, and I most certainly will never disrespect his decision(s) to do so. I would actually put this to the test but I have no desire, whatsoever, to use Al. I see no personal benefit in it. However, I know many whom will use an Al pot and rather than making every attempt to keep it clean or take every precaution to keep it free of abuse, because of it's associated low cost, they simply replace it. That benefit does not transfer or extend to Ti. Ti equipment is expensive and is treated as such. Thus, I spend quite a bit of energy to ensure my equipment is safe and will perform for me for as long as I possibly can... Therefore, reducing cost over time.

Thanks for the comments, Gentlemen... Great stuff!!!

2:12 p.m. on April 5, 2014 (EDT)
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Well, Ti isn't as good of a conductor as Steel and Al, but is much stronger for the same weight so Ti pots are made thinner.  By the way, stainless steel is not a great conductor of heat, either, and we see lots of pots in our kitchens made out of it.  The benefit of Ti is in the strength.  Ti weighs half as much as steel for the same strength.  Then for Al, you need 40% more Al than steel for the same strength.  

 

Then there are also two types of conduction that matter.  One is the heat getting through the bottom of the pot to the contents.  The other is spreading out the heat across the bottom of the pot.  If only boiling water, the first one is all that matters.  The second is why people complain about Ti - it doesn't spread the heat out.  That is probably why Ti pots tend to be made taller instead of wider.  BTW, some stainless steel pots in the kitchen have an Al or Cu plate in the bottom - to spread out the heat.       

 

That means that a Ti pot of the same strength as steel can be half as thick, so while it doesn't conduct as well, there is only half as much material to conduct through.  Similary, an Al pot is going to be thicker than a steel pot for the same strength, offsetting some of the conduction advantage.

 

That is also why they offer multiple types of tents stakes in Ti.  Some are thin and light, but as strong as steel.  Others are the same thickness and weight as steel nail pegs, but twice as strong.

11:48 a.m. on April 6, 2014 (EDT)
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Thank you, Drphun for clarifying my points.

Ti may suffice for water boiling, but you need better heat distribution than Ti provides if you intend to do real cooking.

Ed

2:02 p.m. on April 7, 2014 (EDT)
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Okay we are now switching from boiling/fuel efficiency to cooking performance when it comes to real food eh? Have you cooked real food on Ti vs Al backpacking cookware?

Well, I have done this and I will be specific, something a review site deserves; I have cooked numerous soups and stews from fresh ingredients and sauces like tomato sauce for spaghetti and real chocolate pudding, the kind you make from scratch with dry ingredients from the cupboards. I have also made it the French way (Pot de Creme), eggs and real block chocolate...in both Ti and Al. I have also baked biscuits in Ti and a pizza on Al.

I have the MSR Gourmet Cookset in Al, two sized sauce pans and a small skillet and have four Ti pots of various sizes and shapes from Snow Peak, MSR and Evernew.

I have used some very thin stock Evernew SS too. They rusted up pretty bad over time after lots of use. I was never impressed much by them.

We are into nutrition over the long trips we like to take and feel it is important to get some fresh stuff when we can...cooking is an important part of that, maybe not so much for those who take shorter trips.

Again, the problem is not the material so much as the thin stock that comes with backpacking pots and pans. Even the Al would burn at the spot that the stove flame hit it with a canister or liquid gas stove with relatively low flame setting with things like pancakes. I found it better to set the pan over fire coals that heated evenly. With puddings or sauces, the Al pot has to be stirred just as vigorously as Ti.

I cooked the puddings and sauces in the Ti pans over an alcohol stove, probably the worse stove for that but never had it burn or stick with vigorous stirring with a whisk. And Ti is naturally kind of non stick. We cook the chocolate pudding several times on each trip. Same with the spaghetti sauce, fresh veggies when we can supply them and a lot of home dried veggies and meats too. I have used my Snowpeak 2L Ti pot over 1000 times now, about the same for my Snowpeak 1400 Ti.

The trap some fall into is not having any real experience and somehow deciding the cookware they use is superior to something they have never used but in reality the difference is not enough better to be noticeable in practice.

10:49 p.m. on April 8, 2014 (EDT)
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ghostdog said:

"Okay we are now switching from boiling/fuel efficiency to cooking performance when it comes to real food eh? Have you cooked real food on Ti vs Al backpacking cookware?...

...The trap some fall into is not having any real experience and somehow deciding the cookware they use is superior to something they have never used but in reality the difference is not enough better to be noticeable in practice."

I should have used better phrasing on my first comments; efficient was a catch-all adjective to state performance across several criteria.  I apologize for the misunderstanding, I was not strictly speaking in terms applicable to a water boil test. 

As for the trap some fall into, I can assure you I have sufficient experience using myriad of stoves and pots (with the exception of alcohol stoves).  Yes, I own a Ti pot kit.  I have no dog in this race; I have owned close to a dozen different white gas and canister stoves, almost as many different pot sets, and a handful of different fry pans.  I have worn out a portion of these items.  I have even fabricated and significantly modified some of these items to suit my preferences.  I hope after a life time of camping I have some idea about this topic. 

Granted someone with skill can perform pretty impressive tricks with crude or poorly suited technologies.  Bill can make a Whisperlite stove simmer, something I have never seen others do, and is something I have no patience for, as it requires constant fiddling to maintain the right combination of tank pressure and fuel flow to pull off.  Certainly if one can get a Whisperlite to simmer, it is possible to cook a soufflé using only a water boiler type over canister stove and Sierra cup.  But most of us - back country chefs included - can't be bothered trying to get equipment to perform well beyond the intended design considerations.  I like my kitchen arrangement to be easy and trouble free.  While my go-to set up is a freestanding, large burner head, stove with remote canister, and a set of Al billies and a fry pan, I will opt for an old MSR Firefly WG stove and small squat Al stock pot for snow camping, or any combination of gear that best fits the intended application.  Ti pots are suitable for boiling water, but inferior to both Al and SS when it comes to "real" cooking IMO.  If one were to own just one cook set my vote is Al or SS gear, as these are more versatile than Ti.

Ed   

December 19, 2014
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