Slings: Tied or Sewn?

3:39 p.m. on December 21, 2001 (EST)
(Guest)

What are your thoughts? Pros and cons of each. I am not sure if I should spend the extra $$ for sewn ones or not.

5:05 p.m. on December 21, 2001 (EST)
tie'em

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What are your thoughts? Pros and cons of each. I am not sure if I should spend the extra $$ for sewn ones or not.

You do much climbing and you leave bail slings. You can untie them and put them through or around anchors. If you sew them, then you end up having to double them up to bail off the same thing.

Cheaper and more versatile. Tie em yourself.

matt s in NYC soon to be back in SLC(thank whatever power that is).

5:07 p.m. on December 21, 2001 (EST)
(Guest)

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What are your thoughts? Pros and cons of each. I am not sure if I should spend the extra $$ for sewn ones or not.

Tied are heavier, not much. knot is bulkier, real pain depending on how you carry your slings, only real advantage (other than a little $)is being able to untie for rap stations or threading big things, yeah, yeah, tell me about the spectra friction crap..bla..bla

if you tie, try double fishermen's instead of water knot, a little peace of mind.

10 singles...8 nylon sewn..2 tied.. 8 X 3.95 + 2 X 1.95....hell, not even a cam. I wouldn't make this decision on $, get what you want.

12:45 a.m. on December 22, 2001 (EST)
(Guest)

a.k.a. Don M, Don Morris, Don P. Morris

Quote:

What are your thoughts? Pros and cons of each. I am not sure if I should spend the extra $$ for sewn ones or not.

On a climb of any significance, you want some of both, probably more sewn than tied - they are lighter, more foolproof, and less hassle, but there are times when you will want to thread, etc.

9:04 a.m. on December 22, 2001 (EST)
(Guest)

One discrepency

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if you tie, try double fishermen's instead of water knot, a little peace of mind.

Double fisherman will be perma-tied if you body weight them. It is a good knot if you leave a sling behind and dont want it to be swiped, but it negates the usefullness of being able to untie them to leave them behind.

matt s

7:53 p.m. on December 23, 2001 (EST)
(Guest)

Re: One discrepency

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Double fisherman will be perma-tied if you body weight them.

I must have imagined all the ones I untied, granted its not easy. Just like a hard water knot, anything to mash it with loosens it up, whack it with the hammer, a boot heel, generous application of molars, or just knead it a bit.

3:07 a.m. on December 24, 2001 (EST)
(Guest)

Igo water

I go with the water knot. I also make sure to test and entaughten the waterknots I have over my knee or something. On the Ice you will never know when you might have to get creative. So, either knot you'll have to take your gloves off to untie but concider which one you' get untied easier. Rapping is another story. But if you can get your knots untied other stories are aesy.

1:24 p.m. on December 26, 2001 (EST)
(Guest)

Re: water knot is simple

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I go with the water knot. I also make sure to test and entaughten the waterknots I have over my knee or something. On the Ice you will never know when you might have to get creative. So, either knot you'll have to take your gloves off to untie but concider which one you' get untied easier. Rapping is another story. But if you can get your knots untied other stories are easy.

Besides being secure, and easier, the water knot is simple.
The double fishermans violates the "keep it simple" rule. It is more bulky, and harder to inspect. And just plain looks like an ugly mess, making me say "What the hell is that!?" every time I see one.
You should be able to inspect those knots at a glance!

6:31 p.m. on December 26, 2001 (EST)
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408 forum posts
Mostly tied...

Quote:

Quote:

What are your thoughts? Pros and cons of each. I am not sure if I should spend the extra $$ for sewn ones or not.

Tied are heavier, not much. knot is bulkier, real pain depending on how you carry your slings, only real advantage (other than a little $)is being able to untie for rap stations or threading big things, yeah, yeah, tell me about the spectra friction crap..bla..bla

?? I hear tell the Spectra knot friction might be mostly myth...but, Tom Moyer's test data pulling various cord-e-lettes is purty interesting...

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if you tie, try double fishermen's instead of water knot, a little peace of mind.

Make mine a water knot. Easy to untie which is why I carry tied ones in the first place...

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10 singles...8 nylon sewn..2 tied.. 8 X 3.95 + 2 X 1.95....hell, not even a cam. I wouldn't make this decision on $, get what you want.

I'm the opposite. Gimme 8 tied, 2 sewn. Ice climbing on Monday, I left 5 tied slings. Glad to have had the option...

I by Bluewater's 9/16" webbing (black) by the spool! Great stuff, plenty strong.

Also recently picked up a few of BW's Titan rabbit runners. Nice option to tied slings. Very useful.

Fun stuff...

Brian in SLC

7:43 p.m. on December 28, 2001 (EST)
37 reviewer rep
747 forum posts
water knot is archaic

Quote:

The double fishermans violates the "keep it simple" rule. It is more bulky, and harder to inspect. And just plain looks like an ugly mess, making me say "What the hell is that!?" every time I see one.

A double fishermans knot properly tied is smaller around than a water knot, much stronger, and less apt to fail. The double fishmans knot is a trifle longer...

why not carry some sling material untied? I do...

(Flame on)I see no excuse in this age of high tech climbing for anyone to ever use a water knot. I personally do not climb with people who use water knots. I have noticed that the European climbers use many more knots than Americans, I think most Americans have trouble tying their shoes without tying a granny knot. Give us sewn slings and snap links so we don't screw it up. (:->)(flame off)

I like sewn spectra...
Jim S (:->)

9:37 p.m. on December 28, 2001 (EST)
(Guest)

Re: water knot is archaic

I see you missed the point of my post; that the water knot is SIMPLE! In every way.

Sewn runners are, of course, simpler! Instead of untieing, threading, and retieing; just double up a sewn runner and clip with a biner = simplest and fastest.

12:23 a.m. on December 29, 2001 (EST)
(Guest)

Re: water knot is archaic

"""Instead of untieing, threading, and retieing; just double up a sewn runner and clip with a biner = simplest and fastest."""

Remember those famous lines....it is better to appear ignorant that to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...

When you say the water knot is 'SIMPLE', well, you're right, more people will be able to check it at a glance cause they know it, doesn't make it any better...knot work is a lost art to a lot of climbers, I cringe when someone says 'what's that' to the bowline on a bight or the butterfly...

One data point here, three years ago I was on a wall and on day three my partner had to take a crap in the morning, so, with nothing better to do at the moment, I was sorting biners and slings, and low and behold 2 water knot tied slings that had had 2 inch or so tails at the start now had tails disappearing into the knot, these guys I believe had been used for the hauling anchor at most belays...repetitive weighting, scary...

Too much rain here in northern CA...

12:02 p.m. on December 29, 2001 (EST)
(Guest)

Re: water knot is archaic

"I was sorting biners and slings, and low and behold 2 water knot tied slings that had had 2 inch or so tails at the start now had tails disappearing into the knot"

That's the great thing about water knots....it's easy to spot and fix such problems. Hope you take time to check those knots more often than when there's nothing better to do. I have spotted dissapearing tails (less than 1/2 inch) on one of my climbing partner's fishermans knots, and tails less than one inch on another's. Of course, they could have been tied that way to begin with.

"Remember those famous lines....it is better to appear ignorant that to open one's mouth and remove all doubt..."

If you're going to tell me that fisherman's knots are permanant fixtures and never need inspecting; I'm not buying that.
All gear (including knots) should be inspected while it's in use. Shouldn't take more than a glance and some awareness to spot a problem.

I concede; If you can't inspect knots because they are going to be un attended or whatever reason, beefier knots may be better.

12:09 p.m. on January 9, 2002 (EST)
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2 forum posts
Re: water knot is archaic

Quote:

"I was sorting biners and slings, and low and behold 2 water knot tied slings that had had 2 inch or so tails at the start now had tails disappearing into the knot"

That's the great thing about water knots....it's easy to spot and fix such problems. Hope you take time to check those knots more often than when there's nothing better to do. I have spotted dissapearing tails (less than 1/2 inch) on one of my climbing partner's fishermans knots, and tails less than one inch on another's. Of course, they could have been tied that way to begin with.

"Remember those famous lines....it is better to appear ignorant that to open one's mouth and remove all doubt..."

If you're going to tell me that fisherman's knots are permanant fixtures and never need inspecting; I'm not buying that.
All gear (including knots) should be inspected while it's in use. Shouldn't take more than a glance and some awareness to spot a problem.

I concede; If you can't inspect knots because they are going to be un attended or whatever reason, beefier knots may be better.

If I could ask about a knot I use occasionally: I've never seen it in any manual, but that doesn't mean it isn't valid...it's 2 water knots in series, starting with an overhand knot on each side, then a followthrough on each side...twice the protection of a water knot, but easy to inspect and tie and untie....Am I off base using this knot?

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