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DWR

10:07 p.m. on November 25, 2001 (EST)
(Guest)

My Moonstone Savauge Parka is apearing to be wet on the inside sholders. It is about 2 - 3 years old and the water doesn't bead-up anymore. I've used Techtron spray-on DWR but it doesn't seem to last long. Does anyone have a clue as to how to restore DWR to new conditions. Why are some jackets better at the dwr than others, is it fabrics or chemicals? Does Gore-tex wear out and how can it leak, being PTFE?

1:36 p.m. on November 26, 2001 (EST)
39 reviewer rep
20 forum posts

DWR is the nemesis of all waterproof/breathable rainwear. Not knowing the moonstone line, I'm assuming your jacket is 3 ply. You're right - the PTFE won't leak (unless there's a hole in it or a tear); what is likely happening is that the jacket is "wetting out" - the DWR is not keeping the water from beading up on the face fabric (some face fabrics are better than others for maintaining integrity), and so the goretex is not breathing at all, since it's impossible for perspiration to pass through a soaked garment. The wetness you have been experiencing is probably condensation. You can try washing the garment in Nikwax techwash, and then applying Nikwax DWR spray (TX-Direct i think) on it while it is still damp; spray it lots and let the excess drip off. Once it's a bit dry, throw it in the dryer on warm (not cooking hot); the warm will do two things - it will dry it of course, but also the mild heat bonds the new DWR, and helps restore and shape up the old DWR which gets cracked through normal flexing and use.

Hope this helps - check with Moonstone as well, since I don't want to void any warranty or give you bum advice. This is based on my experience only.

Cheers!

Jon


Quote:

My Moonstone Savauge Parka is apearing to be wet on the inside sholders. It is about 2 - 3 years old and the water doesn't bead-up anymore. I've used Techtron spray-on DWR but it doesn't seem to last long. Does anyone have a clue as to how to restore DWR to new conditions. Why are some jackets better at the dwr than others, is it fabrics or chemicals? Does Gore-tex wear out and how can it leak, being PTFE?

3:17 p.m. on November 26, 2001 (EST)
(Guest)

a.k.a. Karl
Help me out--What's DWR; PTFE?

Help me out--What's DWR; PTFE?

Quote:

My Moonstone Savauge Parka is apearing to be wet on the inside sholders. It is about 2 - 3 years old and the water doesn't bead-up anymore. I've used Techtron spray-on DWR but it doesn't seem to last long. Does anyone have a clue as to how to restore DWR to new conditions. Why are some jackets better at the dwr than others, is it fabrics or chemicals? Does Gore-tex wear out and how can it leak, being PTFE?

4:30 p.m. on November 26, 2001 (EST)
39 reviewer rep
20 forum posts
Re: Help me out--What's DWR; PTFE?

DWR stands for "Durable water repellant" - it's a finish they put on all waterproof/breathable garments. think of it like Scotchguard, in a way. It keeps the water beading up on the outside of the fabric so that the PTFE laminate can do its job. The fabric you see on a Goretex jacket is in itself not waterproof; it's the PTFE laminate that's sandwiched to it that provides the waterproof/breathable barrier. PTFE stands for polytetraflourethylene (I apologize for misspellings; i'm no chemist). It's a thin membrane that on microscope has pores which are too small for liquid water to pass through, but large enough for water vapor (perspiration) to pass through. That's the so-called 'miracle of goretex'. The problem is that lab testing vs. real-world testing show different results at times, and also the DWR wearing away is a very real problem.

Quote:

Help me out--What's DWR; PTFE?

Quote:

My Moonstone Savauge Parka is apearing to be wet on the inside sholders. It is about 2 - 3 years old and the water doesn't bead-up anymore. I've used Techtron spray-on DWR but it doesn't seem to last long. Does anyone have a clue as to how to restore DWR to new conditions. Why are some jackets better at the dwr than others, is it fabrics or chemicals? Does Gore-tex wear out and how can it leak, being PTFE?

8:17 p.m. on December 6, 2001 (EST)
(Guest)

Gortex is a layer of stretched teflon-like film that's stuck to fabric with a polyurethane coating. Gore doesn't mention the polyurethane since it's the Evil Competitor, used by lots of other folks. Sooner or later this membrane will deteriorate due to physical processes (such as might occur as your pack straps crush and wrinkle the jacket's fabric) or chemical-like (such as might occur as body oils or washing detergent get into the membrane).

DWR improves the performance of water resistant fabrics by increasing the surface tension of the fabric surface; that makes it repel water better. DWR doesn't do anything (good) to the membrane coating inside.

You can improve the performance of your jacket by washing it in a liquid laundry detergent. This will remove dirt, skin oil, sunscreen, insect repellant, and funk, but it will leave a powerful hydrophilic chemical in the pores of the fabric (that's bad). Then wash again with a special product for water-resistant fabrics. No need to dry in between. NikWax makes an expensive wash liquid for this purpose, but there are others (some of which remove any scent that could spook deer, yippee). This will remove the detergent residue and make the fabric (and NikWax corp) happy. Next, spray on a DWR-restoring product, such as made by Gore and NikWax. I've used both and they seem about the same, although the NikWax is a bit cheaper per garment. Follow the directions carefully; they call for application to the damp garment followed by tumble drying the garment all by its lonesome.

This is about the best you can do, because the problem might still be the deterioration of the Gore membrane itself as the result of friction under your pack straps, etc. Nevertheless, it makes a big difference in other than a steady rain.

OTOH, new jacket colors are pretty cool.


Quote:

My Moonstone Savauge Parka is apearing to be wet on the inside sholders. It is about 2 - 3 years old and the water doesn't bead-up anymore. I've used Techtron spray-on DWR but it doesn't seem to last long. Does anyone have a clue as to how to restore DWR to new conditions. Why are some jackets better at the dwr than others, is it fabrics or chemicals? Does Gore-tex wear out and how can it leak, being PTFE?

3:42 a.m. on December 13, 2001 (EST)
(Guest)

Re: Help me out--What's DWR; PTFE?

Quote:

Help me out--What's DWR; PTFE?

Quote:

My Moonstone Savauge Parka is apearing to be wet on the inside sholders. It is about 2 - 3 years old and the water doesn't bead-up anymore. I've used Techtron spray-on DWR but it doesn't seem to last long. Does anyone have a clue as to how to restore DWR to new conditions. Why are some jackets better at the dwr than others, is it fabrics or chemicals? Does Gore-tex wear out and how can it leak, being PTFE?

3:49 a.m. on December 13, 2001 (EST)
(Guest)

Re: Help me out--What's DWR; PTFE?

Quote:

Help me out--What's DWR; PTFE?

Quote:

My Moonstone Savauge Parka is apearing to be wet on the inside sholders. It is about 2 - 3 years old and the water doesn't bead-up anymore. I've used Techtron spray-on DWR but it doesn't seem to last long. Does anyone have a clue as to how to restore DWR to new conditions. Why are some jackets better at the dwr than others, is it fabrics or chemicals? Does Gore-tex wear out and how can it leak, being PTFE?

Dear Karl,

I came across your quest for information, on which I have the following information:

PTFE is the term for Teflon, as it is registered by Dupont france, and it is mostly aplied in the form of a coating.
Core-tex is probabely the material the applied the teflon coating to. I am not sure how to re-seal your jacket, but I would try a hiking store for a sealant.

best regards Mark

It has nothing to could very well be that the

7:57 p.m. on December 19, 2001 (EST)
(Guest)

Quote:

Gortex is a layer of stretched teflon-like film that's stuck to fabric with a polyurethane coating. Gore doesn't mention the polyurethane since it's the Evil Competitor, used by lots of other folks. Sooner or later this membrane will deteriorate due to physical processes (such as might occur as your pack straps crush and wrinkle the jacket's fabric) or chemical-like (such as might occur as body oils or washing detergent get into the membrane).

DWR improves the performance of water resistant fabrics by increasing the surface tension of the fabric surface; that makes it repel water better. DWR doesn't do anything (good) to the membrane coating inside.

You can improve the performance of your jacket by washing it in a liquid laundry detergent. This will remove dirt, skin oil, sunscreen, insect repellant, and funk, but it will leave a powerful hydrophilic chemical in the pores of the fabric (that's bad). Then wash again with a special product for water-resistant fabrics. No need to dry in between. NikWax makes an expensive wash liquid for this purpose, but there are others (some of which remove any scent that could spook deer, yippee). This will remove the detergent residue and make the fabric (and NikWax corp) happy. Next, spray on a DWR-restoring product, such as made by Gore and NikWax. I've used both and they seem about the same, although the NikWax is a bit cheaper per garment. Follow the directions carefully; they call for application to the damp garment followed by tumble drying the garment all by its lonesome.

This is about the best you can do, because the problem might still be the deterioration of the Gore membrane itself as the result of friction under your pack straps, etc. Nevertheless, it makes a big difference in other than a steady rain.

OTOH, new jacket colors are pretty cool.


Quote:

My Moonstone Savauge Parka is apearing to be wet on the inside sholders. It is about 2 - 3 years old and the water doesn't bead-up anymore. I've used Techtron spray-on DWR but it doesn't seem to last long. Does anyone have a clue as to how to restore DWR to new conditions. Why are some jackets better at the dwr than others, is it fabrics or chemicals? Does Gore-tex wear out and how can it leak, being PTFE?

8:08 p.m. on December 19, 2001 (EST)
(Guest)

Above is pretty much correct. Just to add; if the surface wets out, it offers a cold surface for the moisture vapour inside to condense at which point it cannot exit the Gore-tex membrane (vapour only). You will be sure it is leaking but it can very likely pass a pressure test w/out a drop going through. Complicate this with the fact as previously mentioned that pack straps etc can cause stess leaks in the membrane. Look closely at the Gore care label and you will see a symbol suggesting a light iron. I suggest a hot wash, extra rinse, followed by a toasting in the dryer. Follow this up with a steam iron @ 350 deg. Harsh you say? Seems so but 7 years with a Gore manufacturer dealing w Police Gore-tex Jackets and good quality 3 ply will stand up to it. What good is the jacket if it doesn't work? On current "Gore" they have eliminated any polyurethane component.

April 20, 2014
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