Anchor methods for clipping into a tree!

2:03 p.m. on June 22, 2004 (EDT)
(Guest)

Ok, if I'm going to be in a tree for extended periods,
what are ideal methods to clip into a tree?
Spectra webbing with knotted loops and around the tree?

There ARE anchor points, but I find the "lobster claws"
very bulky.

I am currently looking at Petzl caving gear to see if any of it could work.

thanks guys!

8:29 p.m. on June 22, 2004 (EDT)
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So why ....

are you going to be in a tree for extended periods (Enquiring minds want to know)?


Quote:

what are ideal methods to clip into a tree?

Clip *into* a tree??? If you were a logger (you can tell, because loggers stir their coffee with their thumb), you would use loggers tools. There are a myriad of special devices that loggers have used over the years, some of which are still available from various logging equipment companies. Do a Google search for forestry safety equipment, such as tree trimmer's suspension systems. I have seen pole-climber's spikes in such places as OSH.

Quote:

Spectra webbing with knotted loops and around the tree?

If you want to jury rig something, you can always just use nylon tubular sling around branches or the trunk, eyebolts screwed into the trunk, or even climb using ice tools and crampons. Of course, all this damages the tree. You should be aware that the tree's circulation system is just under the bark, so cinching something down around the trunk or a branch cuts the circulation of the life fluids of the tree from that part, just like a tourniquet. It doesn't matter to loggers, of course, since they are cutting the tree down and converting it to lumber or pulp anyway. Anything that bores holes provides a path for various pathogens that can infect the tree and potentially kill it. Some trees (e.g., redwoods) have very thick bark that is somewhat protective, but this is still problematic. Unfortunately, a lot of the tree-sitting protesters did not (and apparently still do not) understand this and ended up killing or sickening the trees they were supposedly trying to save.

If you use limbs for your tie-off points, you should be aware that there is no easy way to determine the strength of the branch. Depending on the health of the branch (such as whether it is in the process of being shed), it could be strong or very weak (even when looking substantial). Some trees (redwoods are a good example) have very shallow root systems that are easily damaged, and may be quite weak. A year or so back, we had an orienteering meet in Big Basin Redwoods State Park. On one of the legs, a number of orienteers were rather startled when a huge redwood decided to drop (visible from quite a distance around, thankfully with no one within the danger zone). Some of us had passed by that tree within the previous half hour and had seen what appeared to be a substantial, healthy tree.

5:31 p.m. on June 24, 2004 (EDT)
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Try an arborist website...

Quote:

Ok, if I'm going to be in a tree for extended periods,
what are ideal methods to clip into a tree?
Spectra webbing with knotted loops and around the tree?

Seriously, them fellers know.

Brian in SLC

2:12 p.m. on June 29, 2004 (EDT)
(Guest)

Re: So why ....

Working at a camp, and have to run a zip line.
Not a fan of the Y shaped screamer they want me to use,
since when you fall, you're going to fall a LONG way.
Prefer a spectra daisy chaing, and maybe a secondary for
"good measure"

Duration is will be 2 X 1hr a day, afternoon and morning.

I was expecting a zipline tower, but it's in the trees.

Cross your fingers for me!

2:54 p.m. on June 29, 2004 (EDT)
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range of motion?

How far to you have to be able to move in this tree? If you're stationary, I'd think a static daisy chain between yourself and the (presumably solid) anchor would be fine.

If you're moving around (on a platform,etc.) and significant slack can develop between you and the anchor, being tied in with something dynamic might be a good idea. Though a screamer seems an odd choice. Maybe an OSHA-type bungee tether?

12:26 p.m. on June 30, 2004 (EDT)
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On the zipline ...

Quote:

Working at a camp, and have to run a zip line.

Since you mention a camp, I suspect that you will have to have the zipline conform to ACCT standards (otherwise, if something happens, the lawyers will have proof of negligence and the insurance companies will say you personally and the camp are not covered). ACCT = Association of Challenge Course Technologies. Get the ACCT standards book from
http://www.acctinfo.org/. You better ask the camp if they have had an inspection from an ACCT-listed inspector.

My first impression was this was something you were doing for yourself. Doing it for "customers" is a whole different ballgame, and under the auspices of a camp (presumably kids under 18) opens a whole can of worms. The legalities require that the supervisors and instructors be properly secured as well as all the stuff for the people who ride the zip line.

Quote:

Not a fan of the Y shaped screamer they want me to use,
since when you fall, you're going to fall a LONG way.
Prefer a spectra daisy chaing, and maybe a secondary for
"good measure"

The screamer will reduce the shock load on you. Dave's suggestion about having some sort of dynamic anchor setup is an excellent one, and the screamer is one way of doing this. A daisy is *not* intended to hold any sort of fall (as the hang tag on them says). If you used just a spectra sewn loop, you would also have a pretty high force (spectra is quite static, and won't absorb the energy of the fall). You could use an adjustable daisy (the Yates and the Kong are good ones), but they also aren't intended to hold falls.

Quote:

... Cross your fingers for me!

You're gonna need more that that! I suggest you start asking a lot of questions of the camp management about things like who set up, who inspected, who signed off, what their insurance company says, and so on.

12:41 p.m. on June 30, 2004 (EDT)
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Re: On the zipline ... should add that ...

I have worked ziplines. We don't use screamers, but an anchor (SRENE, of course) for the supervisor/instructor who is at the load point that is dynamic (as Dave suggested). Most were towers, but some were on trees. The tether itself was always a "single" climbing rope (except at one setup where we used a "double" rope, just to have some redundancy in the tether itself, but a single is plenty good). We also always belay the "customer" up the tower (or tree) on a top rope, with the belayer (another supervisor/instructor) on the ground at the bottom of the tower/tree to make multiple checks on their harness, etc. There was never enough space on the loading platform to move very much, so adjustability and extensibility of the tether was never a problem. The places where you might fall were the forward end of the take-off platform (so the farthest reach of the tether) or the sides of the platform. The total range of movement typically is a meter at most, so there isn't much slack to build up.

Which makes me question the need for a screamer. I think that I would ask a lot of questions of the camp director and program manager. It sounds like they may not have much experience with ropes courses.

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