About | Blog | Forums | People | Free Newsletter
Trailspace is a product review site for outdoor enthusiasts. Use it to find and share great gear.

Using PAS or similair "sling chain"

9:08 p.m. on March 29, 2011 (EDT)
0 reviewer rep
11 forum posts

I am wondering other peoples thoughts on using something like the Metolious PAS (personal anchor system http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/pas_personal_anchor_system.html) for anchoring yourself at a hanging Belay or on top of a route before cleaning. I think It seems like a good system that gives you the adjustment of a daisy chain but the strength of a typical sling. The downfall obviously is that if one link in the chain fails the whole system fails which is no good. Also Black Diamonds QC lab has done some testing  regarding nylon on nylon attachment which was a little disturbing. (http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/journal/climb//qc-lab-connecting-two-slings-together) In the PAS though the Nylon is not girth hitch or anything so I am not sure how much this applies. Just wanting to know what people who may know a little more than me have to say.

2:20 p.m. on March 31, 2011 (EDT)
TOP 10 REVIEWER REVIEW CORPS
2,249 reviewer rep
5,186 forum posts

A problem with the PAS is that it is Dyneema plus nylon - strong, but Dyneema (and the similar fiber of different names by other brands) is problematic when subjected to friction when rubbing on itself. I have a PAS that we tested by anchoring it, then moving back and forth as you might when standing at a belay. It didn't take too many cycles before it came apart. You should never let fabric rub on fabric in anchors or belay points.


IMGP0001.jpg
In other words - BAD IDEA!!!

Fabric on fabric should never be done for joining slings, ropes, etc, whether running rope through a sling to rappel or (SHUDDER!) top roping (people have died that way), even when girth hitched. You can tie knots, as long as they are fully tightened, but any slippage (which does happen in girth hitches) will allow frictional heating. Nylon is less subject to the problem than Dyneema (or Spectra or the others in the same family), but is still problematic.

If you have to join slings or rope, use a carabiner (multiples for non-lockers - "opposite and opposed") or rap rings. Never use someone else's rappel sling that they pulled the rope down through. And when joining ropes to get a full-length rappel, consider which rope will stretch and hence rub on the rappel sling if you don't have a rap ring (or better, chains at a fixed rap point).

5:27 p.m. on March 31, 2011 (EDT)
171 reviewer rep
223 forum posts

To anchor yourself lower than the belay, those PAS are okay as long as you do as bill said. Use biners. If your higher than your belay your exposing youself and your anchor system to a factor two fall with no means of absortions. Dangerous. PAS, daisy chains, slings and the likes are okay for hanging belay. As soon as your on top of the route and tied in higher than your anchor/belay, you should use a dynamic sling or your climbing rope to secure yourself. Beal make the aformentionned dynamic sling. E safe and good clim.

11:51 a.m. on April 5, 2011 (EDT)
TOP 10 REVIEWER REVIEW CORPS
2,679 reviewer rep
1,137 forum posts

Dyneema has also shown accelerated photodegradation over nylon according to BD's QC lab guy. 

Heard about a demo where a guy used a nylon sling to saw through a dyneema one.  It took six pulls.   

7:39 p.m. on May 4, 2011 (EDT)
0 reviewer rep
90 forum posts

...good info here. I just got one of these as a gift and have been thinking about putting it into use. That is if we ever get any decent weather...

Previously I always used a 9/16 sewn webbing sling girth hitched to my harness with a simple overhand knot separating it into two halves. Upper half was used to clip into the anchor while I set up the extended rap in the closer half of the sling. Always use a Yates Belay slave and usually got the right amount of extension for me on the rap but the PAS looks like it has more options.

A coment I saw about the photodegradation issue doesn't make sense to me saying that Dyneema would be more photoactive than nylon...I'd really like to see the data as I'm a chemist.

9:02 a.m. on May 5, 2011 (EDT)
MODERATOR REVIEW CORPS
658 reviewer rep
2,137 forum posts

Mazama said:

A coment I saw about the photodegradation issue doesn't make sense to me saying that Dyneema would be more photoactive than nylon...I'd really like to see the data as I'm a chemist.

 I have seen the same thing reported by multiple manufacturers and outlets. I have not looked into the details or the explanation, but I haven't questioned the reports either.  If you find out more, I for one would love to hear what you discover.

11:39 a.m. on May 6, 2011 (EDT)
0 reviewer rep
90 forum posts

gonzan said:

Mazama said:

A coment I saw about the photodegradation issue doesn't make sense to me saying that Dyneema would be more photoactive than nylon...I'd really like to see the data as I'm a chemist.

 I have seen the same thing reported by multiple manufacturers and outlets. I have not looked into the details or the explanation, but I haven't questioned the reports either.  If you find out more, I for one would love to hear what you discover.

 If you see where this is said about Dyneema...shoot me a copy or the link as I have a client that I'm working with right now on projects that pertain to photochemistry so it would fit right in with some current work.

Thanks!

April 20, 2014
Quick Reply

Please sign in to reply

 
More Topics
This forum: Older: What to look for in a climbing shoe? Newer: Lessons vs. Figuring it out
All forums: Older: Private Message Moderation... hmmmm. Newer: Trade? MSR WisperLite Shaker Jet For Optimus Svea