Superiority Complex of members

2:04 p.m. on January 22, 2014 (EST)
121 reviewer rep
599 forum posts

I think melensdad has a good point over in another thread that will probably be overlooked by members and moderators if not otherwise discussed here. I think it is becoming an ever increasing norm that the more seasoned members or more knowledgeable hikers/climbers in this forum are unfriendly, unwelcoming, and take the stance that they know more or have more to offer than others who post.

It is actually one of the main reasons why myself and others I know on a personal level, rarely come to this community anymore. I feel like I've been involved in a few of these "scuffles" where because my opinion or world view is different than the "superiors" who think they run things, I get berated - I'm too young to know anything, I don't have as much experience as they do, blah blah blah. It has become really offensive sometimes and while I may lash back on occasion, I have tried to be better about not doing that. Sometimes it just gets the best of me and drags me in, because I hate it when people get away with treating others like that.

I rarely visit anymore because of this, and when I find my frustration building because of how cocky some members get with their answers and how much they think they know, I just take a break from the site.

Is that the virtual community Alicia and others hoped to create with Trailspace? I doubt it. I don't have the solution, but I feel like some sort of conversation will at least start the process of fixing this. I feel as though it's probably part of the reason why other valued members have left in the past. I know I can't be the only one feeling this way, and I'm pretty surprised I've stayed a member.

4:11 p.m. on January 22, 2014 (EST)
1,324 reviewer rep
391 forum posts

iClimb...I first want to say that I sympathize with you...but as a person who has to deal with large group dynamics on a weekly (sometimes a daily basis) where the discussions are nearly always personal+political+emotional...I can tell you that it is often best to begin discussions such as this with specific examples...otherwise it becomes a "let us all try to do better" discussion that ultimately does very little...or just makes things worse. Using specific examples allows everyone involved to examine the discussion in question for themselves and decide if it is out of line and how (if it is out of line) it could be done better in the future....with an eye to making sure not to shame anyone...as this would be trading one berating for one shaming....which is both petty and unhelpful (it is part of the freedom to and freedom from paradox). If you think a particular phrase or comment is out of line let the author know within the thread...try to be nice about it...and be open to the idea that the other person is not a terrible human-being...or that you might simply be reading more into the text than the author intended...and that others do not see. Most of the time the other person will apologize and make clear that their intention was not to hurt feelings but simply to state a very pointed position...and everyone moves on.

As far as newcomers are concerned I have never personally witnessed an example of anyone (much less a long-time member) clearly treating a new-comer poorly (actually people seem to go out of their way to provide suggestions and advice)...I am not saying that it doesn't happen...but I would bet it is a rare event. I also imagine for every newcomer who finds the amount of knowledge here on TS uncomfortable or overwhelming there are at least 10 who are happy to have stumbled across such an accessible site where experienced advice is given away at the cost of nothing more than the time it takes to type a question (similar advice in outdoor-seminars can be really expensive)...and this is evident in the numerous examples I have witnessed where newcomers have literally typed their delight and thanks for having stumbled across TS in their search for advice and information...and all the suggestions and information they received.

In general...we all want to be polite and friendly to each other (at least I believe we do...and I don't believe much)...but sometimes this is not always the result. The occasional poorly chosen phrase is to be expected over time (as a person who writes all day I can tell you this is something that is inevitable)...as is the occasional personality conflicts and hurt-feelings...but as long as the occasional poorly chosen phrase is neither habitual or personal I think some measure of tolerance for those who act and speak in ways we find personally less appealing is probably healthy for the community as a whole (otherwise TS might become overly-burdened with teaching and enforcing manners at the cost of ideas and perspective). Moreover...where I have witnessed "scuffles" it has always been between long-time members who are all active participants in the "scuffle"...and never a one-sided affair (it literally takes two or more people to tango in a text-only format)...unlike the corporeal-world...online we truly can "walk-away" and the "scuffle" ends.

5:28 p.m. on January 22, 2014 (EST)
REVIEW CORPS
592 reviewer rep
1,514 forum posts

I think I know some of what iClimb refers to and I think I have even been a part of some. Right around the time Rick left in specific. But that is a two way street because for some of us, newcomers seemed to simply reinvent the wheel instead of look around and see what was going on first. And while I agree with Joe, (I should provide examples) I am reluctant to because those old fish have been fried and it may drudge it all up again. suffice it to say, that there were times I felt that new people sometimes wanted this to be a different place than it was and any discussion to try to arrest that or address it even was met by negativity from the new person. Rick is gone now in part because of that sort of thing. So people on both sides of the issue have either left or greatly curtailed their presence here. I am not at all the most experienced, but I have been around a long while and cherish conversations with BillS, BHeiser1, Patman, Gartman, Caleb, Ed, Gary, Denis Daly, and SOOO many others that I could list and list them. sometimes even things with people in the background having nothing to do with this subject matter. many are over on Facebook and I don't see them here much any more. So I do think you make a point, and I offer this solution: New people....this joint has been around and there are many great people here. Listen and then chime in. Old folks...you are great! New people add to us! Let's all just get along. :)

6:16 p.m. on January 22, 2014 (EST)
TOP 10 REVIEWER REVIEW CORPS
3,612 reviewer rep
1,248 forum posts

Its definitely a fine line to walk to between being polite and correcting someone who is mistaken and may also lead others astray.   Unfortunately something we say with a smile and a wink will probably not sound that way in the forum and can seem pompous or rude. 

I agree also that sometimes we are just trying to be heard rather than helpful. For all the times I have been guilty of that I am truly sorry and thankful for your reminder. 

9:20 p.m. on January 22, 2014 (EST)
121 reviewer rep
599 forum posts

I don't want to hash out examples of things that have happened. For one, I don't feel like I need to call out people on specific things they have done. I don't hold grudges. This post is mainly to point out that as someone who has been a member here and been perusing for years, I have found the overall feeling of the posts to be increasingly negative. Maybe I have just taken things too personally...but honestly, if it's JUST me taking it too personally, why have others left for quite similar reasons. 

Joseph - you have some valid points. Varying perspectives are often at the root of these "scuffles" and also can provide interesting information. The issue is when ego's come to play and things become more insulting and unproductive. I can immediately think of 3 or 4 extremely clear examples of how I was blatantly insulted because I had a differing view point, but I think that calling out people and giving examples only presents a more hostile environment. I'd also see calling someone out in that manner almost like another type of personal insult, and I'd like to think that unless they succeed in dragging me into it, I'm above that.

I think Sage makes an excellent point - many times I think a question gets an answer, just so the person can be heard. The answers resulting have almost more to do with people bragging about what they know, think they know, or bragging about some adventure that they found epic. It's pretty classic egocentrism at work, when someone takes another's question and instead makes it about them and their answer. 

It's almost as if we are all seeking some sort of validation here. As if we need to prove something, anything, and by answering questions or partaking in discussion, we are somehow flexing our biceps and saying look mine are bigger. Personally I hate that. It reminds me of high school. 

Besides, I know mine are the biggest :-)  (sarcasm)

P.S. Sage - you've been one of the most pleasant people on this forum. I'm not sure what you have to apologize about.

1:39 a.m. on January 23, 2014 (EST)
1,324 reviewer rep
391 forum posts

I don't  think you would need to call someone out and give a "real" example...just a specific example that would address a similar concern as a "real" instance...and would allow others to comment on something beyond speculation.

It would be a very rare thing if you were the only one with hurt feelings...as with anything there is an assumed natural distribution...meaning that we should assume some people get hurt-feelings easily...some who nearly never get hurt-feelings...and most people fall somewhere in the middle. That is...the fact that you are not the only one is not that surprising...and not evidence that something is viewed as a widespread problem....just evidence that something is viewed as a problem by some...which we should naturally expect.

All of this is to say...from a practical stand-point it does little good to complain about something in a general sense...as someone who is held responsible for ensuring that discussions are kept constructive and cordial I can tell you that addressing specific examples is considerably more practical and effective...but that's only my experience:-)

Validation...hmm...I try to stay away from assigning something as fluid as intentions (ever notice how fluid these are?)...I'll leave this up to the folks who like studying things you cannot touch...see...or prove actually exist in any meaningful form. I'm sure there are some folks who like to give advice simply to demonstrate what they know...but for most of us I would venture to guess that it is a combination of things (one of which is demonstrating what we know). I think this is fine...very few things in this world are pure-types...and aren't we doing a similar thing if we go out of our way to demonstrate that we are not simply giving advice to demonstrate what we know (i.e. presenting ourselves in a certain elevated light)?...might as well do it in a manner that is somewhat useful:-)

2:04 a.m. on January 23, 2014 (EST)
MODERATOR
38 reviewer rep
1,757 forum posts

I posted on the other thread about this. As a moderator, one of my tasks (which are strictly volunteer, I have no financial interest in the site) is to quell personal disputes that get out of hand. Those tend to be few and far between. Occasionally, members get banned, but that is rare.

I think some people are more thin-skinned than others; I'm not one of them. As I said, in my experience here over 10 years, the vast majority of experienced posters are more than willing to share their knowledge and experience with newbies to hiking and backpacking. The spats tend to be between experienced members who are convinced that they are correct. In one aspect of my business, we have winners and losers and those are determined by a third party, such as a judge, jury or court of appeals. Whether you personally like someone or not, makes little difference as to whether you win or lose, it is much more objective and while I understand that is not the case here, getting into personal scuffles with people you don't know seems to be a waste of time.

8:09 a.m. on January 23, 2014 (EST)
TOP 10 REVIEWER REVIEW CORPS
1,979 reviewer rep
430 forum posts

This place is actually pretty friendly compared to some other places I've left behind due to serious negativity issues.  There are a few who seem to post in ways meant to provoke, but so many more who are always trying to be helpful.

I think the reason you see people answering questions from their own perspective is because that is how people think.  A hanger, when asked about shelters will see the question from the perspective of a hanger just as a tarper would see it from theirs and a tenter from their own.  The  nice thing about this place is that we haven't segregated ourselves into specific groups.  Sure some people will try to get you to do things their way, but I like sleeping in my bearproof tent and I'm not changing!

As for how beginners are treated I'm guessing you weren't paying much attention over the last year.  The top reviewer of last year was someone who came here as a beginner.  In a series of long threads that just about everyone joined in on at some point he went from never having been backpacking to doing trips alone and with other TS members.  They didn't just answer his questions, they went on a trip with him.

I'm not going to say I don't see why you folks think there are some bad vibes at times.  I'm just saying this place may not be perfect but it ain't all bad and most of the time is actually pretty darn good.

IMHOYMMVOWGARAIAEITALGGAB

9:51 a.m. on January 23, 2014 (EST)
REVIEW CORPS
592 reviewer rep
1,514 forum posts

I will be the first to admit that in real life I tend to be somewhat argumentative...not necessarily in a sense that I need to be right but I like a good debate! Perhaps that is why I love being a lawyer. I do know for a proven undisputed fact that I come across in emails as somewhat short and even curt though it is not my intent. So when it IS my intent, I imagine it looks quite ugly from the outside. OK sometimes I DO want to be heard or I DO want to make my point. But not to put others down. I know I do cross the line from time to time and Seth has quashed those passions when needed. I also know that if you ask my wasband, he can tell you that in a good old fashioned verbal fight, I am lethal. Something I have to be aware of and not let that demon out. To the extend that I have not been successful with that here on the site, I am sorry. I love being round here and really don't want to make others experience here less fun than I see my own as. And I agree there have been some negative patches recently....but that is sort of gonna happen with passionate people who get together on a site like this. The key is to quell it and perhaps, iClimb, your bringing it up will prompt us all to do a gear check and see where we might be best at not contributing to negativity in the future. I know I will.

edit:

Let me just add that I don't know if you were lurking around back in 2012, iClimb, but that is when I did my big trek to Everest. I did a spot connect and several people from here asked to be included. Also, BillS and bHeiser1 met me for coffee in San Fran as I was leaving the country and we had a great real life visit. Then they posted updates about my trip as it was going on and others followed. When I returned, I did a fund raiser for my Sherpa who had been denied electrical power along with 5 other families in his village (they are untouchables in the caste system). SEVERAL people from here participated monetarily and still more lent moral support to the project. It took a year, but the project was complete and those people all have power now, thanks in a great measure to the people here. For one, I would not have been successful in even doing the trek without the help I got here preparing and never would have known Mani and his plight. :-O

12:10 p.m. on January 23, 2014 (EST)
121 reviewer rep
599 forum posts

So based on the overall response, it would seem that some people recognize there can be some negativity but that as a whole it's my own personal response to how a few people have treated me?

I'm ok with that I guess. I will try in the future to not be so thin skinned and take it in stride. I guess I normally am not thin skinned, but it built up over time with several situations that really got to me. I understand this community as a whole is helpful and it's impossible to not bring in ego's with so many perspectives and so much knowledge. I suppose I can do better about how I resolve those situations in the future, rather than becoming offended and engaging in the same behavior, I will just let the person know what they said that offended me. I might find they didn't even intend on doing it.

I think this was somewhat therapeutic for me, and I hope it encourages me to start coming back more. I'm far from the most knowledgeable here, but I'd like to think I've got SOMETHING to offer that you all might miss out on if I'm not here

:-)

Jospeh -  I have studied medicine, pharmacology, and psychology, and have 2 degrees in those studies. I'd say I study the metaphysical but I would argue that those things that can't be touched or proven real are usually just a lack of education regarding the science behind it. Neurology, brain imaging, and neurotransmitter particles can easily map out emotions and things like validation. Off topic, but just my 2 cents. No need to venture off in that discussion here. :-)
Either you know a lot about stats, or you're just overall very intelligent...with all that regression to the mean talk back there :-)

12:15 p.m. on January 23, 2014 (EST)
BRAND REP TOP 25 REVIEWER REVIEW CORPS
2,003 reviewer rep
476 forum posts

You can't gain experience without going out there and doing it, and when you do get out there, there isn't a point of making mistakes simply to form an education from them when I could instead ask someone with experience I don't yet have.

I've never been afraid here to ask even the most seemingly trivial questions, and they've all been politely and generously answered by the community at large.

I'm also a member of Hammock Forums, and while incredibly helpful and very welcoming to "noobs," it's a MASSIVE forum. TS is a much smaller, tight-knit community that truly allows you the chance to know the folks you're talking with, and - if you're lucky enough - hike alongside. That's one thing you'll find here that's hard to match, elsewhere.

As LS noted, it's not only inspired me to go out there myself (and do so safely), but has allowed me the opportunity to join other TS members and learn from them, too. And for that I'm very grateful. Y'all have been there with me on the trail literally and figuratively. 

No, it's not a perfect system. Everyone here comes from a different background and for different reasons, and what we each give and get differs accordingly. But - at the end of the day - I'd hope we all do get something from our time here, and contribute something back someone else has found helpful, inspiring, or what have ya.

Proud to be a part of it.

3:14 p.m. on January 23, 2014 (EST)
1,324 reviewer rep
391 forum posts

First...I apologize for getting off subject below...but this is an apology of sorts so I wanted to make it public...though it is directed at iClimb...so please ignore if you prefer:-)

iClimb...in regards to statistics...I am about to finish my PhD in Sociology...so statistics is one of our most powerful instruments for making claims about society (since society is big and not directly observable)...but I thought I did a good job of explaining a normative distribution without using a lot of jargon. Personally I prefer ethnography (cause I like watching people...that sounded creepier than intended)...which more often than not (due to my areas of "expertise") leads me to following a "tribe" of scientists + physicians + engineers around as they make truth and facts come into being (a truly magical moment...though they would argue that they revealed it)...though broadly speaking I study the construction and transmission of ideas across time and space (I just think the ideas we call truths and facts are more important to study).

Though I made a quip about Psychology I can say that no field of science is without questionable claims regarding the direct observation of phenomena (if scientists are not using an "instrument" to observe phenomena...a special "vision" is required). This is not to say that science is a sham (I am a scientist and my own position is subject to the same criticisms...I use a special "vision" to observe truth in the making...and statistics [instrument] to observe social phenomena across time and space)...but it is to say that nature is not "revealed" it is constructed...and a bit of humility is required in all scientific claims (if history reveals anything it is that we should fully expect people in the future to think that our "facts" and "truths" are silly and not true). The point being...it is not completely valid for me to criticize Psychology based on a criteria that all of science would fail...but I do believe that motives specifically (not all of Psychology) are a phenomenon that I have great reservations about...and which I find are given too much explanatory power in our theories and understanding of behavior...I think we ignore the fact that motives have not always held the same position in our understanding of behavior as they do today...and that the "rise" of motives is largely a result of the socio-historical context from which they have emerged...where the development and spread of individualism (namely the impact of individualism on our social institutions such as law) often require us to establish motive(s) in order to determine the "proper" "treatment(s)" and/or policy.

3:27 p.m. on January 23, 2014 (EST)
REVIEW CORPS
592 reviewer rep
1,514 forum posts

jrenow said:

The point being...it is not completely valid for me to criticize Psychology based on a criteria that all of science would fail...but I do believe that motives specifically (not all of Psychology) are a phenomenon that I have great reservations about...and which I find are given too much explanatory power in our theories and understanding of behavior...I think we ignore the fact that motives have not always held the same position in our understanding of behavior as they do today...and that the "rise" of motives is largely a result of the socio-historical context from which they have emerged...where the development and spread of individualism (namely the impact of individualism on our social institutions such as law) often require us to establish motive(s) in order to determine the "proper" "treatment(s)" and/or policy.

 James Joyce would be proud! ;)

6:26 p.m. on January 23, 2014 (EST)
121 reviewer rep
599 forum posts

see I was right, you're a smart fella :-)

7:05 p.m. on January 23, 2014 (EST)
210 reviewer rep
4,219 forum posts

Garfield the cat says it best 


Garfield.jpg

11:16 p.m. on January 24, 2014 (EST)
MODERATOR TOP 10 REVIEWER REVIEW CORPS
6,363 reviewer rep
834 forum posts

What's lacking in the TS forum is a large volume of people interacting. Some days, it feels like the forum is made up of less than two dozen people. Since January 1, I have attempted to read as many new reviews as I can, commenting on the review, and voting them up so that people will feel welcomed to TS and possible come to the forums.

This thread came about because of the response most of us had to those foolish hikers in distress. But those guys didn't come here looking for help, and their responses in the news indicate they learned nothing from the experience.

On the other hand a PERFECT example of TS friendliness is HornRimmedHiker. He came here last summer a complete newbie and started a thread called "Backpacking in Baby Steps," and that thread became a long discussion that helped him get started. Even further, 3 of us from TS took him out on his first multi-day backpacking trip and showed him what works and what doesn't. Another thing we did was help guide him in better testing of his equipment before posting a review. To this day, HRM and I exchange private messages about various things, and I'm sure we'll go hiking again when weather improves.

In ANY forum you will have snide comments, abrupt responses, and things taken the wrong way. I think TS is one of the better places to be!

1:36 p.m. on January 25, 2014 (EST)
87 reviewer rep
1,067 forum posts

I have to happen to agree with Iclimb that there is a problem with ego's.

I don't post that much anymore because I've noticed it..I think its up to the members to put things as simple as possible to new people..And for people who don't know IClimb he's been a member for a long time and I am glad he's started to participate agian. He and ED are two of my favorite posters to give a different perspective and they do it with class..Iclimd thanks for comijg back and bring up what needed to be brought to people attention and No your not thin skinned to many think they have all the answers and may work for them doesn't mean it will work for everyone..

4:18 p.m. on January 25, 2014 (EST)
0 reviewer rep
178 forum posts

Some of this may simply be a question of the perception of the role of this forum in general.  As a teacher, when someone asks me a question, I always have two goals:  one, to answer the question as best I can, and two, to encourage the student to get more involved, even excited, about the subject.

 

I suspect that many of the senior members here tend to focus on the first goal--answering the da#n question.  But for newbies, I also think that it is more important to encourage them to continue their pursuit, to explore this activiity, and to support their enthusiasm.  The more members we have, and the more backpackers we have, the better this country will support the wilderness areas we love.

 

I know I sometimes feel as if newbies here are being taught a lesson...in the old time classic sense...rather than encourage to take part in the discussion and become part of the community.  

 

6:54 p.m. on January 25, 2014 (EST)
1,324 reviewer rep
391 forum posts

I just personally don't feel that comfortable with making claims about what other people think (I'm unsure enough about what I think)...I have no idea whether other people think they know it all or not...and I am not really sure it matters a whole lot if they actually do.

For sure I think we all want TS to be a welcoming place which for the most part I believe it is (based on the sum of all the positive and negative things that are written)...but at the same time questioning the way others present themselves seems to me as much a superiority complex as the superiority complex it is calling into question. That is..."act the way I say because I know the way to act"...seems to me very similar to "camp the way I say because I know the way to camp" (if not worse because questioning another person's character is often thought to be worse than questioning another person's intelligence).

As I have said...insulting someone is obviously a behavior which would be frowned upon by most members...and it can sometimes be a fine-line between critiquing another person's position and insulting them...but beyond overt clear insults does it really matter how someone presents their perspective? Most of us would agree that the "right" way to enjoy the outdoors is the way that one enjoys the most...and if someone suggest otherwise it is nothing more than an opinion...does that person really need correcting?...and if so...is TS the place that it should be done?

I'm not saying that my perspective is correct on this matter...perhaps TS members do need a lesson in manners...perhaps TS might be a better place for it in time. I just personally feel uncomfortable with questioning the way others present themselves...and I am wholly unsure that TS is an unfriendly place in need of greater politeness.

5:12 p.m. on January 26, 2014 (EST)
REVIEW CORPS
592 reviewer rep
1,514 forum posts

I work with a guy who I sent an email because I knew that something of his was coming up in court and he was not informed about it. He still didn't show up in court and the judge was pissed. i let him know the judges response and left it at that. Later my boss came and said that this guy did not like the tone of my email. I liked my boss' response: EMAIL'S don't have tone. In other words, don't think because it is short on kisses it is a negative response.

10:03 p.m. on January 26, 2014 (EST)
MODERATOR TOP 10 REVIEWER REVIEW CORPS
6,363 reviewer rep
834 forum posts

giftogab said:

I work with a guy who I sent an email because I knew that something of his was coming up in court and he was not informed about it. He still didn't show up in court and the judge was pissed. i let him know the judges response and left it at that. Later my boss came and said that this guy did not like the tone of my email. I liked my boss' response: EMAIL'S don't have tone. In other words, don't think because it is short on kisses it is a negative response.

Back in the 00's I use to know a young dating couple attending different colleges. They couldn't afford big long-distance phone bills. Email nearly destroyed their courtship. FORTUNATELY, Skype came along about that time and saved their relationship. They'll be married 13 years in May.

I also had to explain to my boss one time that when he TYPES IN ALL CAPS he's yelling. He didn't understand one Monday when I came in with an weekend email from him ready to quit.

3:54 a.m. on January 27, 2014 (EST)
MODERATOR
38 reviewer rep
1,757 forum posts

G00SE said:

giftogab said:

I work with a guy who I sent an email because I knew that something of his was coming up in court and he was not informed about it. He still didn't show up in court and the judge was pissed. i let him know the judges response and left it at that. Later my boss came and said that this guy did not like the tone of my email. I liked my boss' response: EMAIL'S don't have tone. In other words, don't think because it is short on kisses it is a negative response.

Back in the 00's I use to know a young dating couple attending different colleges. They couldn't afford big long-distance phone bills. Email nearly destroyed their courtship. FORTUNATELY, Skype came along about that time and saved their relationship. They'll be married 13 years in May.

I also had to explain to my boss one time that when he TYPES IN ALL CAPS he's yelling. He didn't understand one Monday when I came in with an weekend email from him ready to quit.

 I see the same problem with Twitter (which I don't use) and text messages. Too often, people don't or can't understand the subtext or I have no idea if a short or blunt message will offend someone. I usually warn people I'm dealing with, especially other lawyers I do contract work for, not to expect any subtleties from me while I'm trying to solve a problem for them. I save those for my work product (as Karen knows, we have lots of ways to call someone an idiot without using the word; it's an acquired skill). :)

4:02 a.m. on January 27, 2014 (EST)
1,324 reviewer rep
391 forum posts

The need for additional information beyond text in human communication is why emoticons were invented:-)

8:19 a.m. on February 10, 2014 (EST)
REVIEW CORPS
592 reviewer rep
1,514 forum posts

Tom D said:

G00SE said:

giftogab said:

I work with a guy who I sent an email because I knew that something of his was coming up in court and he was not informed about it. He still didn't show up in court and the judge was pissed. i let him know the judges response and left it at that. Later my boss came and said that this guy did not like the tone of my email. I liked my boss' response: EMAIL'S don't have tone. In other words, don't think because it is short on kisses it is a negative response.

Back in the 00's I use to know a young dating couple attending different colleges. They couldn't afford big long-distance phone bills. Email nearly destroyed their courtship. FORTUNATELY, Skype came along about that time and saved their relationship. They'll be married 13 years in May.

I also had to explain to my boss one time that when he TYPES IN ALL CAPS he's yelling. He didn't understand one Monday when I came in with an weekend email from him ready to quit.

 I see the same problem with Twitter (which I don't use) and text messages. Too often, people don't or can't understand the subtext or I have no idea if a short or blunt message will offend someone. I usually warn people I'm dealing with, especially other lawyers I do contract work for, not to expect any subtleties from me while I'm trying to solve a problem for them. I save those for my work product (as Karen knows, we have lots of ways to call someone an idiot without using the word; it's an acquired skill). :)

 ah yes. not to mention I come from a family who says what they mean and moves on. getting all hurt  from stuff wasn't an option or you didn't keep up with the pace.

3:20 a.m. on April 7, 2014 (EDT)
102 reviewer rep
2,295 forum posts

Iclimb:

It is unfortunate your experiences with the  forum members are unsatisfactory.  You and I have debated topics on more than one occasion.  You have always comported yourself in a respectable manner when addressing my comments.  I sincerely apologize if I have not reciprocated this courtesy.

Regarding other members of the forum:

Let me apologize if I have come off arrogantly or offended anyone.  I rarely mince words, you'll always know what I think; perhaps that is putting positive spin on what more candidly is indicative of a social moron.  Like GoG, I too like a good debate, but sometimes don't know when to quit.  More moronic behavior on my part, I am sure.  Sorry.

Let me also apologize for being a bore.  I try to be witty and amusing, but overshoot that objective at times, and made a fool of myself.  Thank you all for tolerating these moments.

But there are times I intentionally come off strong, especially when the topic is unsafe practices, such as igniting and using stoves in tents; or advice that compels qualification, for example, those who profess reduced gear lists that result in unnecessary risk and  exposure to the elements.  I also hold little back on threads pertaining to news worthy incidents of knuckleheads getting in trouble, practicing blatantly poor wisdom while in the woods.  I will comment how the scenario should have been managed, but foolish behavior is what it is, and it is just as appropriate to note that as it is to correct it.  Sorry next of kin, but the victim was a fool wading into a stream mere yards upstream of a two hundred foot waterfall - I am only stating the obvious.  If that appears arrogant do note I have used my own follies on many occasions to caution others.  I have no perception I am superior by any means; on the contrary I feel lucky to have survived myself, let alone still possess of all my fingers and toes.  I wish I was more smart, but hope luck continues to make up for my lack of gray matter.

Ed

October 24, 2014
Quick Reply

Please sign in to reply

 
More Topics
This forum: Older: Upload issues? Newer: Where are the new reviews???
All forums: Older: No Joke: Win a Kayaking Package from Johnson Outdoors Newer: Mt. Katahdin / BSP advice.