Svea 123 R Stove Fire

12:16 p.m. on April 22, 2013 (EDT)
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Yesterday making a bit of tea trail side, my stove caught on fire. This is a 1976 Svea 123 R and it has never been rebuilt ever before.

Making a 2nd boiling cup of water @ 16 ounces each as the cup started to boil the whole stove blew into flames. I took the cup I was using as a pot off the stove and set it down and then tipped the stove over into a ice and snow bank trail side. The snow wasn't soft nor was it deep so i buried the stove to cool it off and cool the tank part off too.

Removing the filler cap i saw the tank was empty and the filler cap gasket was cracked.

This morning a moment ago i wedged in a scrimshaw needle mounted in a stick into that cracked gasket and it just broke up in bits.

No big deal i can make one. The point is if you own a vintage stove, it might be a good idea to check the gaskets. A sign I missed, or better said, didn't take seriously was that the filler cap showed slight signs of leaking, which shows it was getting hard.

Besides a new gasket i need to replace the foam pad the stove sits on, as 1/3rd of that burned away too..

LP

7:38 p.m. on April 22, 2013 (EDT)
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Well it was harder to fix than i thought, and i could use a new wick, but have no idea where to get one. The old wick was dark brown and semi solid inside the draw tube. It was factory wired in brass wire to make it easy for a factory worker to install it, but that wick fell apart there. I reversed the way it was since the center was worn badly and sort of corded what had been the in the fuel tank ends and inserted them into the draw tube.

Once i was ready to start the stove in this instance i got green flame from the copper than had absorbed into the wick since 1976....

If today it is possible to fins a cotton mop I can make a new wick, or just run the stove as is. 

7:45 p.m. on April 22, 2013 (EDT)
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I bought a new cap and gasket a few years ago for my circa 1974 Svea for that very reason.

The stove's last forever, the gaskets not so much.

And as I understand it, the pressure relief cap is the reason you can start the thing like a flame thrower to get it going in cold weather without a pressure pump.  If the pressure relief valve cap doesn't work then all you have is a bomb.

optimus makes the stove now and has parts that fit the original

http://www.optimusstoves.com/seen/technical-support/faq/maintenance-faq/

8:18 p.m. on April 22, 2013 (EDT)
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Yeah that cap has to work. Mine appeared to have lodged a particle and wasn't sealing.

It takes a 5 sided allen key to open it so i didn't. Instead i used a bit of carb cleaner, and that was blown out with air. both from the tank side. The spring there is ok.

My take is Svea didn't want anyone to ever open that valve and seal it shut, or add a home made spring.

I own 2 more 123 not R's and this one is the R model. If i can I will get 3 mops / wicks too if the link you have gets me there.

I had a old repair kit but used it for a new metering needle with the cleaning wire mounted on it for the R model.

I am sure my old wick mop thing is tired too. hmmmmmm I wonder if i would convert a lamp wick by unraveling one..... I run old 1935 vintage Aladdin Mantle lamps and a 10 dollar wick might produce a finer cotton...

For that matter i wonder about cording up cotton twine?

Maybe i am worried about nothing. I can start it up off a can of sterno in the stove's own lid, then run it up to speed, and still have more key to turn which adds too much fuel and the flame goes yellow sending out black soot.

Lean it out and it goes right back to that rocket sound. The main fear is the cotton stuffing will come out of the draw tube someday from the shock  of hiking. There is no wire anymore...

8:27 p.m. on April 22, 2013 (EDT)
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I always inspect my Optimus 8R ( same design) before setting out and dab the gasket with a little mineral oil. I also store it without fuel and never cinch the fuel cap tight in storage. I'm sure one day it may fail just due to old age. But those practices have fended them off since 1974.

8:51 p.m. on April 22, 2013 (EDT)
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Might be wise to check the gasket in the filler cap. It should be softer than a rock :-)

Mine was sudden death yesterday. It split open in one straight line leaving an opening for gas under pressure to pass thru. The gap cold was about 0.001 by eye, but that's plenty to raise the old blood pressure.....

My wife just sat there looking at me as if every thing were alright. I sure have her trained well huh? I was all done needing the stove too. 

That 50 minute burn time is considerably shortened when all the gas emits from a crack in the gasket.

With parts still on the market you might buy a kit. I think i will buy kits for my other 2 Svea 123 no R anyway. bit if i do i will want new wicks for each.

If you have any problems with yours, and want info on the How To if you need any.... just ask.

Maybe there is a How To on line somewhere...... ?? Other than clean the only tech really is getting the metering valve timed to the on off shaft.

What i did was count notches in the metering valve to find 5.

Then I set the shaft in to the valve body snug shutting the orifice off.

Then with the teeth on the metering valve pointing towards the shaft I place light finger pressure and opened the shaft 4 clicks.

Turn the shaft IN and you can feel it seat.... Install the jet and test easy so as to not break that little cleaning wire on the R models.

I suspect the 123 No R also have updated self cleaning needles now too.

If there are no wicks on the market I will just make them.

10:18 a.m. on April 23, 2013 (EDT)
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I like the old Svea stoves, but I had a friend that had one blow up while on a long backcountry trip in the Sawtooth Mts.  She was medivaced out by helicopter with some serious injuries.

Replace your O rings.

 

11:27 a.m. on April 23, 2013 (EDT)
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Svea's are great little stoves. See my review elsewhere on this site. Three things to be careful of, are the cheap knockoffs that are still around used, using a pot that is too large, and making sure that the filler cap is in good condition with the correct gasket. New stoves and parts are available from A & H Enterprises. They have been in business for decades and can supply rebuild kits, as well as new stoves.

To spot a knockoff, look to see that the stove says, "Made in Sweden", and that the lip on the tank bottom is well knurled and brazed. Do not over tighten any parts, especially where the tube attaches to the tank. Do not run it dry, you will risk burning the wick. Do not use the mop for a wick, you'll end up with a clogged jet. A large diameter pot will get the tank very hot. I have also seen folks try to use an MSR windscreen. In that instance, I starting moving my tent and when they asked what I was doing, I replied, "getting ready for the explosion". I also replaced my filler cap gasket and lubricate it with silicone grease periodically.

ppine, the O ring trick will risk a pressure leak on the filler cap. The cap has a flat gasket. The same goes for the gaskets on fuel bottles. Sigg bottles(no longer made) use a flat gasket. while MSR and Optimus/Primus use O rings

Having a stove that has performed flawlessly for four decades, with no maintenance, is testimony to one of the neatest stoves ever made. The burner design is now over 100 years old.

"I suspect the 123 No R also have updated self cleaning needles now too."

Lodgepole, the 123 never came with the integral cleaning needle. The R designation(123R) always has the needle. The 123R will only say "123" on the tank. To tell the difference, the 123 R has a horizontal valve stem, whereas, on the 123, the stem is angled slightly downward.

2:04 p.m. on April 23, 2013 (EDT)
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Erich, Yeah i know.... I own (2) Svea 123's and (1) 123 R. I have had a repair kit on hand for more than 30 years that consisted of 2 metering needles with the wire. 2 filler cap seals, 1 new main shaft with the pinion gear, 1 new jet, 1 brass taper washer, 1 graphite gland packing.

Yesterday nogods sent me here

http://www.optimusstoves.com/seen/optimus-products/products/katadynshopconnect/optimus-zubeh246r/

Well to that site, and there on this link I see 2 metering needles with the wire...... One of the needles is too short for my stove but i wonder if it would be the same as the 123 NO R...

I never had any of these stoves open until yesterday.

And Erich the site you showed me has the kits with the wick but are out of stock.

The stove runs ok with the oem wick but that wick no longer has a wire. Today i bought a cotton mop head for a real floor mop. It is the spitting image and 100% cotton. I figure when i want I can wash a few strands in water and work it out pretty well to get dust and bs off the cotton air dry it and spin it up on either brass wire or stainless wire and just stick it in.

I am not worried about my ability... Volvo and Saab used to be made in Sweden once too...... I have Snap On in SAE, Metric and British Standard, but i don't have any 5 sided allen keys..... I could make one if i really wanted too.

I have that Sigg bottle too with the flat gasket. I could make a gasket like that in a heart beat too. I just need fuel resistant flat sheet stock. I own gasket cutters.

Not about to use a round I Ring where a flat gasket goes either.

I don't like the idea to go BOOM.. The 123 R is 1976 vintage i bought new.... The 123's are maybe a year or 2 older. One was my brothers and the other was a friend of mines, both passed away.

Oddly about 10 days ago I came by a '# 106' that runs on K-1, but has never run once yet in it''s like so far..... I can tell because 1 there is no trace of K-1 in the tank and 2 the rose bud burner is still copper pink not brown that heat would oxide it to be.

I can see the wick thru the filler and I had the 123 R wick in my hand yesterday. The wick was weak up inside the draw tube, and loaded with a tan solid deposit.

After i removed the wick and the all the other parts I blew carb cleaner thru the manifold part, then air from the shop compressor. The manifold brass body is clean trust me....

Unless there is some very special high tech process in wick making it otherwise is a mop stand or 2 of 100% cotton.. I bought the wick to just have on hand.....

No telling when the time will come you can't buy a 100% cotton mop head  anymore, but that time is coming.....

I do old time primitive skills too, and with a few cotton balls could take them apart and cord them into wicks as well.

I do appreciate your effort to keep me alive and well no burns even! (serious) 

I have a near to new MSR Dragon Fly too, but for some reason it just remains locked in a .50 cal ammo box in my van, and doesn't see the light of day over years. I bought that new a long time ago too. I think i may have boiled water on it to see how it worked 2 times...

Until the 123R filler cap gasket split last Sunday this stove ran 100% fine..

I would say the rubber filler cap gasket is real rubber and about 1/8th inch thick  aka 1.5 mm. The old stock were pretty well dried out too from the kit.

2:12 p.m. on April 23, 2013 (EDT)
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ppine said:

I like the old Svea stoves, but I had a friend that had one blow up while on a long backcountry trip in the Sawtooth Mts.  She was medivaced out by helicopter with some serious injuries.

Replace your O rings.

 

 I wonder what happened..... The filler cap safety must have stopped working somehow. Mine works and after the fire it worked a bit too well, so i removed it and was going ton open it until I saw i didn't have a 5 sided allen key. So instead it got a carb cleaner spray bath from the inside and then was blown out with air too. A bit of debris must have been lodged in the pressure plate and it's seat. I took a good look at the spring and it looks fine. I can't say if it is a real spring made of carbon steel or a bit of stainless but it still looks shiny new.

Maybe she did a too big of a pot like Erich said.... You don't want to over heat one of these stoves.. And when you do you want the gasses to escape even if the flame is a bit scary...

Mine was just sitting on a foam pad on a rock out on the trail.... Ran fine to boil water for tea.... Fired it up a 2nd time for more tea, and made that water just as that gasket flamed out.... 

There is no gas checking on the cap or tank side threads so it's all good to go.

2:28 p.m. on April 23, 2013 (EDT)
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sounds kind of like the fun I had car camping last year - I only had a jet of yellow flame shoot out the shutoff valve of my coleman canister stove, no fire. I managed to get it turned off without blowing up or getting burned. the valve is not serviceable so I had to retire my good old coleman stove I had for twelve years...bummer!

3:06 p.m. on April 23, 2013 (EDT)
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Trailjester, I have never had a canister lamp or stove. No parts can be had huh? I hate things made that way...

I will even try to repair items made that way and sometimes I get lucky and other times I don't. More and more items are made to not be taken apart and then there are no replacement parts.

I think that is too bad .... I want to run my Svea's into my grandsons generations.

9:09 p.m. on April 23, 2013 (EDT)
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Lodgepole, the 123 R was introduced in 1974, though doubtless there were still old stock 123s available after that. A & H Enterprises the US distributor before Brunton took over. I bought a kero gimbaled Primus boat stove from them that was a great stove. About 10 years ago, Optimus, who had bought the rights to make the 123 from  Max Sievert AG, decided to stop making them. There was such a hue and cry that Optimus agreed to make one last batch and distribute only through A & H. they sold out in a month and the 123 is still going strong. Unfortunbately, now that Optimus changed hands once again, this time to Katadyn, a lot of things aren't available. I have a nice padded case for one of my 111s and wish I could get another.

9:32 p.m. on April 23, 2013 (EDT)
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Erich, I am not familiar with the 111s or the padded case. I would like to see a few pictures of each.

No case is a part of the problem with my msr stove. Most ungainly device man ever had to pack LOL.

A long time ago i used to pack 2 35mm Minolta 101 camera bodies and about 6 lenses into a 50 cal ammo box and pack that up my mountains..

That was a long time ago. Those days are gone and there is no way i will pack anything in any ammo boxes these days up hill.

Canoe maybe but it won't be a stove then either :-)

Do you have a good or a better reason why i can't use 100% cotton mop as a wick? other than new it may contain mungy bits that i can clean up before I stuff that draw tube?

i am certain my 123R was bought in 76, in fact December 1976. I had just come back north from Fla and dd Mt Washington for New Year's Eve, after living in Fla for a few years. 

My brother came north with me leaving school for personal reasons and he already owned his 123 NO R stove for 2 years before me. he has that in Fla my last 2 years living there. he was there for school, and i was there before him to specifically chase women. And work for bently in hialeah.

For many years i had a brass kero gimbaled lamp but gave it to a Pirate as a gift about this time last year. i have forgoten who made it or what brand it is, but have seen other like them at Hamilton Marine outfitters for a pretty penny since... That place is in Portland Maine.. i don't know if that company is national. The glass chimney is a bit onion like.

Once I had dreams of a bigger sail boat than a canoe.

11:35 p.m. on April 23, 2013 (EDT)
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With the cap washer so hard, I'm surprised the stove built enough pressure to work.  The cap requires a special tool to rebuild, that's why it is in the shape it's in to prevent untrained folks from messing with it.  Cotton mop threads can be used to replace the wick, although I prefer the ease of ready-made ones from A&H Enterprises, the bay of evil or in England, Base Camp who have many parts for the old stoves and lanterns.  Washers can be had from Ross over on Classic camp stoves or find a suitable O-ring from the auto parts store or Harbor Freight.

Duane

3:10 a.m. on April 24, 2013 (EDT)
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Bill:

You should consider replacing the fuel cap of your 123.  The pressure relief spring may have been affected by the fire.  In any case being stored under compression for decades probably altered its performance too, causing the spring to lose some of its memory.  Don’t try to rebuild the cap; as Duane points out the nut with the 5 sided Allen key fitting is torqued a specified pressure setting for the safety relief valve to operate   Unless you know this spec, you will only be guessing, literally playing with fire…

The MSR DragonFly has been on the market for too short a period for us old timers to claim we had one for a “long time.”  Sure you don’t mean the MSR FireFly?  The FireFly is a very fine WG cooking stove, I am sure someone would be happy to take it off your hands.  But the FireFly has issues, probably why it was sold only a few years.  The supply line from the tank to the stove is rubber, and has a tendency for the crimps that joins it to the stove and tank to leak with age.  I replaced this hose by soldering some hose barbs on these fixtures and used a longer 1/8” fuel line.  It hasn’t leaked after many years use, and since it is very UL weight, I use a 3’ long fuel line, allowing me to create lots of distance between stove and fuel tank.


MSR-FireFly.jpg
Above: MSR FireFly Stove (shown without fuel pump, tank or wind screen) was sold in the early to mid 1980s.  Below:  The MSR DragonFly stove is a more recent MSR offering, and still on the market as of 2013.


msr_dragonfly.jpg

Ed

10:46 a.m. on April 24, 2013 (EDT)
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Ed I got that rig on the bottom before 1990 maybe 88 or 89......... I know i did because in 90 my 1st wife and i split the blanket.... Ever since i never had the $$$ to have bought one until more recent times.

I see i may need to drag it out and get a pic, since mine has red and turquoise blue plastic on the pump parts. Mine has snow feet too....... That is a separate item a trifold of alloy with holes in it. They would make good snow stakes until you needed beef steaks.....

On the cap relief spring, mine is fine. No rust and it works. If a spring gets weak from just sitting then lesser psi will open the valve.

After the fire which wasn't long because i smothered the stove in snow and ice the valve did work a bit to easy. I think it got a particle of mung from the crudlings living in the tank all these years caught up.

A Spritz of carb cleaner and a blast of air seems to have cleared the problem.

Duane, So far as i can tell everyone and their brother are out of mop wicks for sale. 'Out of Stock' is posted on A&H, bit i can see the picture.

This morning I found a piece of wick I dropped and didn't know i did 2 days ago... It's a dead ringer for the mop head i bought at the Dollar Store yesterday..

I guess maybe when I get ready I will cut up what I figure I need and wash it. After it has dried well I can clamp a 8 penny nail in the vise and lay the wicking over that and pull a wire over all of that to form the wick inside the first loop.

Then maybe switch to a small nail #4 finish maybe and with a old fashioned hand crank drill twist the wire up tight.

More or less I do this to make a silver ring..... Just with a lot more wire. Each one of these rings is a single stand of wire around 56 inches long. They are folded in the center and then twisted in ab hand crank drill to be made to look like cordage. After that you just tie a turks head knot in work hardened wire.  :-) The 'you just' can vary.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll275/Mac_Muz/silverwork/7747.jpg

I noticed these days you can't get Stoffers boiling bag meals, Wedding Cake, the vanilla ice cream and choclolate rlled cake, nor NECCO WAFFERS. nonpareils  (well almost can't) Wool is harder to find, and assorted many other used to be common items are almost gone or are gone..

Certainly with the past Peak Oil cotton will go way.. :roll eyes:

11:18 a.m. on April 24, 2013 (EDT)
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Lodgepole, you may have misunderstood. Your 123R of 1976 vintage is correct. The R with the cleaning needle was introduced in 1974. Here is a photo of a 111b. These are box stoves and there are many variations. The 8r uses the same burner as the Svea, doesn't have a pump and is smaller than the 111, but the same basic layout. The 111 is kerosene, the 111b, white gas, the 111c multi fuel quiet burner and the 111t a super stove multi fuel and hot burning Swedish Army stove. Other box stoves were the uprights, most using a variation on the Svea burner. Then there are the Phoebus stoves, which I used and liked, though never owned one. Oddly, the 111 is called the Hiker and the 8r the Hunter. The 111 is too big to hike with unless you are cooking for a large group. That said, the 111 is one of the most common stoves for extreme conditions...base camps, canoe expeditions, antarctic camps, because it is so rugged and reliable.

mFSWq0bLDuzdq8YZGRBnmZw.jpg

11:32 a.m. on April 24, 2013 (EDT)
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Erich I have seen stoves like that but never had one..... What is the  padded case? That box is steel and painted a hammered blue...

8:50 p.m. on April 24, 2013 (EDT)
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Check for cracks on that MSR pump, that color/model was about the worst MSR ever made.  The cracks will be on the pump housing/tube part where the pump plunger locks into it.  I sent the one I had that came with a brand new, vintage Dragonfly back to MSR for an exchange this last year.

Duane

8:58 p.m. on April 24, 2013 (EDT)
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Duane, Will do..... I almost opened the ammo can it lives in today, thinking pics.. I sure will in the AM..

MSR would stand up to this if the item is broken from all these years, and no use?

10:51 p.m. on April 24, 2013 (EDT)
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They did, only cost me shipping to them, however on a used one, they did the usual $20 fee and will send a new one out then.  If it is for the DF, specify that in the initial contact.  I wish I could get my hands on a old white pump, but they destroy those and the yeller ones when they are exchanged,  a shame but they would be a liability if resold to collectors like me.

Duane

1:24 a.m. on April 25, 2013 (EDT)
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Lodgepole, Optimus used to make accessories for their stoves, including the padded nylon case for the 111. It had enough room for the repair kit, as well as a few other things. Sadly when Katadyn bought Optimus, all those little things went away.

2:17 a.m. on April 25, 2013 (EDT)
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LP, the Spiritburner website is the place for all things stove, surprised Duane didn't mention it already.

www.spiritburner.com

Also, A&H has parts for old Sveas, at least some of them-

http://packstoves.net/cart/

 

8:36 a.m. on April 25, 2013 (EDT)
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Tom, I mentioned it (Classic camp stoves), you'd have had to pick it out of my post as it did not stand out, nor did I post a link.  Thank you.

Duane

10:46 a.m. on April 25, 2013 (EDT)
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I have been to every mentioned link.. I just open another browser and go to google. I copy and past search related search info.

Right now as best I can tell no wicks are for sale. That's ok I know how to make things with what i can get.

I know i can get gasket material for a lot of things water proof, fuel proof with in reason..... 30 years time is with in reason.

Also before somewhere else Duane pointed the way to www.spiritburner.com over the topic of a Svea # 106 K-1 burner that I have on loan.

I don't need to own everything I see. I do need to understand most things I see.

X foreign car techs are fairly handy people. So are Buck Skinners.  :-)

If it got to the point i could not fix a Svea 123 R it would make very pretty arrow heard and assorted jewelry for my Bride eh?

The stove had a problem 1 time so far. Then I took it all a part and found the wick in poor condition.

By inverting the wick which was bad in the center I have double the amount of wicking up the draw tube.

I will take a wild guess here that the draw tube works In Part cold to pull fuel up the wick by capillary action.

Heat the fuel tank by body heat alone n summer, or under the sun, and or by the methods in the instructions, and or by my method of heating with sterno pressurizes the tank and begins to force fuel vapor and raw fuel up the draw tube and into the manifold.

When you open the On /Off valve raw fuel is forced into the main jet, the only jet in this case. where it runs over and down the manifold into the well. I don't usually allow that to happen.

Once the rose bud is lite up heat runs down the brass manifold and gasifies the raw fuel in the tube by the action of boiling raw fuel before it can escape.

In theory with a good filler cap safety valve no psi should be able to expand the fuel tank to bursting pressures... However any time gasses are released thru that valve there will be flame. That flame in theory should be a jet.... 

In my case after i did the repairs and lite the stove off the valve emitted a low flame like a candle almost from the start. 

That told me a object was stick holding the valve open. It was't open very much and the stove could run like normal.

So I cleaned that valve with carb cleaner in case the object was carbon or old varnish, and then blew the valve out with air from the shop compressor.

The stove works just like it should, but I know that wick is still in bad shape. I know that wick has picked up copper from the brass too. Brass is an alloy of tin and copper. The copper tends to migrate in time and it's had time. The green flames are very pretty..

I don't want green flame carbon in any of my food. I wear a copper bracelet I made to assist in pain control. I have no idea if it works.

I used to work in brass, copper and silver and sometimes still do. When working copper if you eat or smoked you would know that after buffing copper that tastes of everything is strange. That copper dust is not a healthy thing to ingest or breath.

Most acids have a nasty reaction with copper too. An example is foods containing citric acids will begin to foam and fizzle turning green in a plain copper pan.

For this reason many copper pots and pans are tin lined. Probably it was just a matter of time before someone cooking in a tin lined copper vessel invented brass by mistake.

On the other hand a plain copper pan is fine for boiling off maple sap. There is no acids in maple sap and copper conducts heat very well.

At the seasons end the pan should be cleaned of carbon, sugar crusts and oiled with edible oil, so sulfur in air doesn't turn the pan green.

Just sayin'

10:48 a.m. on April 25, 2013 (EDT)
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Erich said:

Lodgepole, Optimus used to make accessories for their stoves, including the padded nylon case for the 111. It had enough room for the repair kit, as well as a few other things. Sadly when Katadyn bought Optimus, all those little things went away.

 Do you have a picture?

10:59 a.m. on April 25, 2013 (EDT)
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The common opinion of burnt or brownish wicks is from running the stove until empty of fuel, but I wouldn't think that possible, but maybe so. ? You got a handle on this I believe.

Duane

2:40 p.m. on April 25, 2013 (EDT)
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Cotton mop heads is precisely the stuff to make a new wick for your Svea out of. I used a bit of lamp wick to make a new wick for my Optimus 8R just last year, and the old boy runs much better now. We run up to five ordinary flat wick kerosene lamps in the winter. My wife had about 4" of wick left from one - 

( When the wicks get short with weekly trimming she sews the tail ends of the wicks together so they are long enough to draw kerosene and run the lamp some more. Talk about being frugal, eh? Of course, the sewed seam doesn't fit in the burner, so at some point you have to give it up and buy a new wick.  Anyway..)

- She unraveled the cross-wise threads of the lamp wick that make it a flat webbing, and the resulting long white lamp wick threads I gathered up with fine stainless steel wire to make my new stove wick. For directions on how to do this, see this You Tube vid -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-svgLuqyGG4&list=UU-HRgttvZQQtg7_G0_T6Sqw&index=1&feature=plcp

Or this thread with excellent photos which is one of the best tutorials on wick making I know of. The stove used is the 8R, but its the same routine for the Svea. -

http://www.spiritburner.com/fusion/showtopic.php?tid/137/

Hope this helps ya get yer old war horses running Lodge Pole!

I've had the safety valve let loose on my 8R several times I'm afraid...

First time was during a test to see how long a tank of fuel would burn I was also using automotive gasoline instead of white gas, and car gas burns hotter. I'd set the stove up outside in the snow, got it primed and lit, warmed it up and stuck a two gallon pot on top. Then my wife and I went for a walk in the snow. 20 minutes later we returned to see the valve spouting a nice tong of flame.  Took the pot off and blew out the flame, no big deal. 

On a cycle tour of Iceland in 2010 I ran my optimus 8R on scrounged fuel of all sorts, including the dregs from a gas can I found in the interior desert one day -

th_MOV02240GotGas.jpg

One evening on that trip my cycling partner the  "gourmet cook" managed to pop the valve again, with an oversized pot, in high winds, and not paying attention  to the stove. When cooking for long periods of time the 8R gets quite hot and you need to reduce the flame because the hotter the stove gets, the more fuel vaporizes, so it gets hotter and hotter till it blows. Just keeping an eye on it and turning it down when needed is all that is really needed to run one safely.

3:03 p.m. on April 25, 2013 (EDT)
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hikerduane said:

The common opinion of burnt or brownish wicks is from running the stove until empty of fuel, but I wouldn't think that possible, but maybe so. ? You got a handle on this I believe.

Duane

 Well it's hard to say if i ran the stove out in the distant past. I may have but not for trying. It wasn't burnt, but brown and the draw tube is brown too.

Now this time,  after the fire,  the tank was dry, at least it looked pretty dry. The wick still had a damp feel though.

Heat will darken brass and copper, so I expect after some years of use a lot of wicks turn dark. In the eye of the brass wire was a deposit of some sort like a  large grain of tan sand.

I am not sure what that was, but my best guess is a form of oxidized fuel typical of motorcycle carbs just about this time of year, and or out board motor carbs. The fuel left in these in longer term storage can turn into a white crystal deposit and or brown and green color sticky mung.

3:24 p.m. on April 25, 2013 (EDT)
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EtdBob 

I run up to 4 1930-2 vintage Aladdin round wick oil lamps all winter for both light and heat. My bed room isn't heated by any other source at this place. Well there is a bottle gas heater but the pilot hasn't been used in years. That heater runs to dry to suit me.

So more or less i will run 3 lamps and all 4 if it is really cold in here. This year that happened just once. 

 

The 3 all on one dresser make heat that mimics a small camp fire, and that works well enough. Once the temps are up to mid 60's I let 2 run until the room hits 70 maybe and them put them all out.

I move the metal tabs that go in the metal wick holder down when the wicks are to short.. I save the old wicks too, but haven't yet sewn any to whats left...

This year I believe something is in the red dyed K-1 that carbons wicks up more than in the past. For years i had to clean and trim these wicks about once each 2 weeks, and this year it's been more like every 3 to 4 days.

 

I am getting a glassy hard carbon deposit that makes lighting the wick harder to do, and the wicks don't take fire like they should and then the carbon makes a long feather flame that the mantles hate, which in turn carbons up the mantle and you then have to turn the lamp down low to cook off the carboned up mantle.

 

I see all these items as carbs.. Fuel metering systems that all make energy...

 

The first of these lamps came to me from deer hunting in NH. I came upon a strange stone wall way out in the woods. The wall was low and coated in dense moss and there were two 90 degree corners about 16 feet part on the diagonal.

In the center of the area was porky pine dung and a lot more moss in a low mound. In the mound there was a rounded object, which after looking was bras and then a brass burner, and that wouldn't move when i tried to raise it up..

I started to dig with my hunting knife and when I was done I ended up with a milk glass white Lincoln Drape Aladdin lamp font and burner.

At the time i had no idea what it was. I took it home and came by some glass that sort of fit I cleaned out the moss growing inside the font, and for a few years i used it like that no mantle at all with the wick that was in it.

The next came from a yard sale for cheap, and then 2 more came for free as a gift from someone that was moving and i just helped. He mentioned trash! I asked at that point if i might buy them and he just said take em have fun.

5:04 p.m. on April 25, 2013 (EDT)
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Wow! That ‘ol Aladdin of yours has some history behind it. I bet every time you light it you smile.  

I bet running that many in one room sure do heat it up in there!

Watch yer ventilation though – ( Not that I need to tell you that, I’m sure ).

I’ve never used any but the flat wick lamps myself.  

Back in ’98 when my wife and I moved off-grid up into the hills, we lived in a tiny travel trailer for the first year and a half.

Naturally we needed light, so we went to Walmart and for ten bucks got a two-pack of lamps with a quart of lamp oil included, all boxed up nice and pretty.

It was a heck of a deal. Those lamps worked surprisingly well. We still have one, and it is one of my favorites.  

They lit out little trailer just fine.

We did have a propane mantle lamp in the galley, but next to never used it. Eventually I added solar panels, two deep cell batteries and a tiny charge controller, and installed a DC fluorescent light. When we had the power, that worked very well indeed.

When we moved into our straw bale cottage, we were given some old lamps from family and friends. ( this happens all the time. The extended family has given us old sad irons, butter churns, crank ice cream makers, wheat grinders and all sorts of junk laying in attics and garages because being off grip my wife and I actually use this kinda stuff! )  One ‘ol lamp is a real heavy glass antique and also works very well. That lamp sits on our refrigerator. We’d go through almost ten gallons of kerosene a winter. The first winter we’d run a propane mantle lantern inside the cottage for an hour or two a night, for the super bright light to cook and wash dishes for, then shut it down and use just the kero lamps and candles ( and the fire light ) the rest of the time.

Then I installed a big enough solar system to run DC fluorescent lamps and for about a decade that was our primary lighting but in the winter there simply isn’t sufficient sunlight to charge the batteries to power those power hungry lights, so we’d still only use the bright light for cooking and dish washing, then go back to the kero lamps.

In recent years I switched to LED lights, that is some fantastic technology there! 

I have only one neighbor on this mountain and he’s been here since the early 70’s. He calls those round wick Aladdin lamps “ Cabin Burners” and won’t have anything to do with them!    

Says he had one back in the day and left it lit on the table while he and his wife stepped outside to do something or the other one evening. Came back in to find flame shooting two feet out the top of that lamp! I guess they need to be watched when they heat up? So, I never dropped the coin on one. They are about a hundred bucks new.

Now, I do have a round wick samovar! Found it in a second hand store in Ft. Collins, Co. one fine day, just needed a little soldering to put it all back together. I’ve always wanted a real samovar, and this one is great, even has a little mica window to adjust the flame by.

Eh, last fall I found clear kero a bit cheaper than the red stuff ( which is what we usually burn ) so I can’t say if they’re mixing something odd in the red kero these days. Of course you can burn diesel or jet fuel in these lamps too, if need be. I always wanted to make a batch of bio diesel and try that in my lamps.

Ever drop a kerosene lamp? My wife dropped one of ours one day, one of our original Walmart lamps no less. She had just filled it and trimmed the wick of course! Our floor is brick-on-sand, and boy did that lamp fly into pieces! She said cleaning up all the kero and glass was quite a chore.  

Heh, I don’t go into winter without a spare wick or two, spare mantle or two, ten gallons of kero, a few extra bits of stove pipe and the like, and I bet you don’t either!

5:19 p.m. on April 25, 2013 (EDT)
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Lodge Pole said:

..When you open the On /Off valve raw fuel is forced into the main jet, the only jet in this case. where it runs over and down the manifold into the well. I don't usually allow that to happen...

Nor should you fill the well with fuel.  Your practice of wetting only the burner rose bud (spirit cup) is exactly what the instructions stipulate.  That depression you refer to on the tank is not a well, its intended purpose is to strengthen the tank where the burner shaft meets the tank.

Ed

6:30 p.m. on April 25, 2013 (EDT)
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Huh?

I've never run a Svea, but didn't Colin Fletcher say to wet the burner and fill the bowl when priming one ( after warming it sufficiently with a burning Lipton tea bag wrapper to get the gas to well up and out ) in his Complete Walker?  

To prime my 8R I do everything from hold a lit wooden match against the brass tank, unscrew the tank cap and withdraw a bit of gas with a short length of soda straw or eye dropper and drop that on the burner, to sloshing gas over the whole bloody stove and tossing a match at it, depending upon how freezing it is out, how well my fingers are working, how much gas I have and what-not...  

7:50 p.m. on April 25, 2013 (EDT)
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"Lodge Pole said:

..When you open the On /Off valve raw fuel is forced into the main jet, the only jet in this case. where it runs over and down the manifold into the well. I don't usually allow that to happen...

Nor should you fill the well with fuel.  Your practice of wetting only the burner rose bud (spirit cup) is exactly what the instructions stipulate.  That depression you refer to on the tank is not a well, its intended purpose is to strengthen the tank where the burner shaft meets the tank.

Ed"

Guys, I have to agree with etdbob here. The well on top of the tank on a Svea 123 is where fuel should go for priming. In the instructions and parts diagram, this depression is called the "priming cup". On 111s and bob's 8r, there is a separate cup, usually with an abestos-like material, to absorb the fuel for priming. For the Svea, the well should be filled, more than dampened, less than full, and lit, this will pressurize the tank AND heat up the burner tube so that when fuel goes through the tube it will be in vapor, rather than liquid form. You do not want to over fill the cup, but it should have enough liquid in it to sufficiently heat up the burner tube. On the stoves with a pump, such as the 111, the pump pressurizes the tank. When the valve is opened, a small amount of fuel will spurt out and run down the burner tubes to the priming cup. Close the valve, light the fuel in the cup and wait until it burns down before reopening the valve to light the stove. If the flame is yellow, or flares up, the fuel is not vaporized and you need to prime it more. On the Svea without a pump, warming the tank with your hands is often sufficient to get enough fuel out of the tank through the jet an into the cup for priming. Do not prime while holding the stove, or with the valve open. A match or a lighter, or even just altitude change can pressurize the tank enough to get priming fuel out. I have to add that Colin Fletcher would use this last method, but leave the valve open a quarter of a turn. Though I have used flame underneath the tank, and it works well, I always have the valve closed until I put out the fire under tank. Then I feel it is safe to open the valve and get some fuel out.

If you do not use the priming cup for priming, I suspect it takes a while to get the stove running right quickly. As well the stove will have a lot of soot, which can clog the jet. In 40 years, I have never had a clogged jet, yet.

Kerosene stoves like the 00 have the same priming cup on the top of the tank. These can be primed with either white gas, alcohol or paste, via the same method. I hate paste as it leaves a residue. On a kero burner, you really know when it is primed because if it isn't, the stove will smoke badly.

Lodgepole, burning the Svea until it is empty, dries out the wick and "cooks" it. That is most likely why it turned brown. Another possibility is auto gas. Always use coleman fuel, aka, and marked on the top of the Svea tank as "bezoline, petrol essence, bensin" or as we know it, benzene, MSR fuel or white gas. The jet on the Svea and the stove itself, is intended only for this type of fuel. The 8r is the same. 111s vary. The 111 is a kerosene stove only. The 111b is a white gas stove only. The 111c and 111t will burn anything, but the jets need to changed if burning kero or alcohol. As well, a small tool must sometimes be used to restrict air flow to make the alcohol burn hot enough.

As etdbob had alluded, using something like a 2 gallon pot on an 8r is a recipe for disaster, as the tank gets too hot. Even on my 111s, I am careful not to use a pot that is too large a diameter and therefore reflect too much heat down onto the tank. Normally, this won't be a problem, unless you run multiple pots with the stove running at maximum. 

Another critical area, is not to overfill the tanks. This is also true of MSR stoves and fuel bottles in general. Some fuel bottles have a level indicator showing where to fill to, and this is definitely not near the top. On a Svea, too much fuel in the tank can cause it over pressurize and vent.

There is a lead washer on all of these stoves at the base of the burner. On the 8r, this is between the spirit cup and the burner tube. On the Svea, it is between the tank and the burner. If you take the stove apart, you may have to replace this washer.

Finally, remember that that in essence, these stoves date back over 100 years. They started as blow torches. All pressurized stoves, especially the white gas versions, can be dangerous if not used according to the instructions and with common sense.

If anyone runs across or knows where to find a bailed billy pot, at least 4 inches across and 5.5 inches deep, let me know. I have not seen one in years and they work perfectly as a pot and case for the Svea 123.

8:33 p.m. on April 25, 2013 (EDT)
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Since I discovered stove collecting three years ago, most of the time I use denatured alcohol for priming everything, even my Coleman 502 and my MSR stoves when able.  They all stay nice and clean now.  The 123's, 80's and 71's the same, they take right off.

Duane

 

9:17 p.m. on April 25, 2013 (EDT)
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The alcohol works great, but on my month long trips, it adds to the things I need to take. For shorter trips, a small squirt bottle doesn't add much weight.

1:50 a.m. on April 26, 2013 (EDT)
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Sorry Duane, I missed it; I usually spot these things when they are links.

 

8:55 a.m. on April 26, 2013 (EDT)
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Tom, I know what you mean and I did not capitalize the complete name.  Classic Camp Stoves, a forum devoted mostly to stoves of all kinds for camping and backpacking.

Duane

10:43 a.m. on April 26, 2013 (EDT)
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Geeze what a list to reply too!..... I turned in early put my bloody back out knockin a oak tree down. The clean up got me not the tree, and it still isn't cleaned up yet. And it was very dead.. and aimed at the house. Now it's layin' in the dooryard.

EtdBob, Yeah most certainly Aladdins must be paid attention to. They do not run like any other oil lamp period.

When you first light one from cold, you turn it up to a low glow and as it warms up it will become brighter all by itself. If you plan to step out then it is best to turn it back down to low if you won't be gone for long.

A lot of people probably should not run these lamps if they won't take time to learn how to use them.

If you just light iut up to be as bright as you like, pretty soon it will warm up and start to run 'Rich' which will carbon the mantle, and if you don't lower the flame then and there the flame will plume, I guess out of the top of the glass chimney, but I have never seen that.

As bad as i get has been to coat the glass in carbon and carbon up the mantle bad, maybe 1/4 inch thick carbon.

That happens if I have had my back to the lamp a bit too long , but it doesn't happen often.

When it does i turn the lamp off to let it cool. Once the glass is cool I wash it.  Then light the lamp with the mantle carboned up bad and run the lamp low to cook off the carbon.

I don't like the Model 23... which I own one off but don't use and it's in a box out in the barn.A circa 1990 vintage lamp....

I burn a lot more gallons than you in NH winter, maybe 7 or 8 (7 gallon) jugs of the stuff..... The room I heat is apx 14 x 24 and has a suspended ceiling that holds no heat. The places I live are not that well built as to stop cold air influx. I own a lot of the same type tools your extended family give to you to. Power goes out forever and i have leather and wood working tools to still do as I please and a lot of hand metal working tools too.

10:57 a.m. on April 26, 2013 (EDT)
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whomeworry said:

Lodge Pole said:

..When you open the On /Off valve raw fuel is forced into the main jet, the only jet in this case. where it runs over and down the manifold into the well. I don't usually allow that to happen...

Nor should you fill the well with fuel.  Your practice of wetting only the burner rose bud (spirit cup) is exactly what the instructions stipulate.  That depression you refer to on the tank is not a well, its intended purpose is to strengthen the tank where the burner shaft meets the tank.

Ed

 Recently I read the instructions on line and it said to place fire paste in that well..... I never had any fire paste, but assume Sterno is like it. I don't place sterno in that well either.

However i do jump off a can of sterno, by placing that can in the cup with the cup handle sticking up and lean the stove on the handle so the fuel tank is tilted. So times the signal the stove is ready is when the safety vale pops open and the gasses light, which is about the flame of a Bic.

I consider the sterno a good back up to the stove or a bit of fire starter camping modern, but have never had occasion to test it.

In NH we have 'paper' 'white' 'tourist' birch all the same tree. We have Silver and Yellow Birch 2 more types, and then black and swamp.

The black and swamp make ok tinder in bark but the first 3 are most excellent tinders.

So I am never with out very decent tinder even is a wicked storm. In the case of the silver and yellow birch, there would have to be one hellova' blow to put out that bark. It amuses me to know that back in the day a new 'Cutter' (new kid with a ax going to work in a logging camp) Would be initiated by first getting him good and drunk, then betting him he could not climb a silver or yellow birch, with plenty of  stout limbs. :-)

Of course this was done after evening dinner at dusk, after work....

Once the kid was up the tree enough the rest of the crew lit the bark at the bottom of the tree and of course the flames went right up the tree.

I just wish i could have seen this.... I have set these trees on fire myself, but with no victims.... so far ;-)

Knowing this, I also know there is a little trick to it too. That is the flames is slower and then with just a bit of care you can move so the fire goes right on by. Maybe that's why they got the kids drink first eh? ;-)

How's that for getting off topic huh? :-)

11:10 a.m. on April 26, 2013 (EDT)
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Erich the Svea "# 106" I have here, which doesn't belong to me .yet. Appears to be the spotting image of a # 00. What's up with that?

You might look this site over, and if you don't find anything in the way of that billy contact Tom and see if he might build one custom, after you know it will be a 18th century reproduction made of copper and coated with tin.

It would weigh in around the same as stainless of equal size and parts, perhaps on the lighter side a smidgen. Be sure to look over everything. Nesting pots may have something and so could cooking pots.

He seems to mix 's' and 'f' interchangeably too. After all it is ia 18th century site.

http://westminsterforge.com/index.html

12:03 p.m. on April 26, 2013 (EDT)
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By any chance, does anyone here happen to have a spare key for a Svea, and maybe even a vent pick and the aluminum cup/cover ?

12:10 p.m. on April 26, 2013 (EDT)
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Lodgepole, thank you for the link. Swedish stove history is complex. The guy that is credited with coming up with the first dependable one, is Carl Nyberg. He made the first practical blowtorch and Max Sievert sold them. Nyberg later made a stove called the Viktoria, which didn't work so well. His second stove, the Svea was a success. By the time the 20th century came around, Primus and Optimus were using similar designs and eventually even more companies used the same principal. Fuel heated enough to vaporize, is ignited under pressure, generating heat. Sieverts is still around, I think they sold the Svea brand to Primus which then sold to Optimus about 1970. So, in short, the reason your 106 looks like a 00 is that they are the same basic design, much copied. I have seen kero burners in the Middle East that are knock offs. And the Russians made what was essentially an 8r for many years. Even the much touted MSR stoves are based on Carl Nyberg's blowtorch. The reason MSR uses a remote tank, is that Larry Penberthy was an engineer and climbing safety guy. He felt the remote tank was safer. His studies of load on ice axe shafts and the failures when using them for a belay anchor, was the principal reason ice axe shafts are no longer made of wood.

I'll also note that the flame spreader on the 106 is almost an exact duplicate, of the spreader on my Optimus 111b. Essentially, almost all liquid fuel camping stoves, including MSRs, are based on the same design, with little variation. There are still unique ones like Joseph Borde's designs, but they are not common.

1:27 p.m. on April 26, 2013 (EDT)
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Unless you're an expert, many of the brass stoves look similar when they actually are different sizes, burners and tanks/founts for example and fuel capacity.  Household stoves had the legs soldered on and the transportable  stoves had sockets for the removable pot supports so a stove could be taken partially apart and taken elsewhere like a picnic or camping trip for example.

Duane

6:30 p.m. on April 26, 2013 (EDT)
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EtdBob said:

By any chance, does anyone here happen to have a spare key for a Svea, and maybe even a vent pick and the aluminum cup/cover ?

 In don't have any spare key and am missing 1 key for a Svea 123. You will need to be more specific as the 123 and 123 R keys are different. The hollow square is larger on the 123 R type stove.

because you asked for a wire jet cleaner i will assume you are talking about the 123 NO R.

There is a common stainless cup that is very close to the size of the Svea 123 R wind screen. I can fit mine on.

How ever if i have tea and don't wash the ss cup the acid in the tea will draw copper from the brass. You can see that layer of copper the next day.

The brass of the stove and the brass of the wind screen are not the same quality.

IMO the quality of the aluminum cup is also poor, and i would not willingly eat from it. Mine is used to protect the stove and to contain a can of sterno only.. I don't even boil water in it to drink.

If all you want is a cup to protect the stove I have a damaged one that came into contact with a salt some how. I have no idea what salt, but it ate the rim in a deep u shape, and the aluminum is pitted.

If that answer is yes, I would want shipping only.. Then IMO the rim should be cut back below the damage, rendering the cup 1/3rd maybe more shorter.

6:41 p.m. on April 26, 2013 (EDT)
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Erich I would be interested in if you buy a 18th century pot....  ;-)

I have one of the corn boilers and it stores a ceramic mug (something somewhat special) that houses a horn cup (apx 2 shots) and that houses a salt horn and pepper horn (2 parts)

Mine is too small for a Svea 123 R, but then I might not mind something that the Svea can nest in. Corn boilers have lids.

I also own one of his copper cook pots i am not sure what size that is.. Not the smallest but maybe the next size up. I also own a copper wash basin, like a very large gold pan, but that was a wedding gift, and we didn't buy it.

I personally know Tom, but not so well he discounts items to me.

I believe he makes a corn boiler that has a trapped lid... I am not sure but i think so. If that idea floats yer stick be sure to ask if you do consider this good enough gear to suit you.

I will eat out of Toms work any day. Be sure you get it tin lined.

2:04 a.m. on April 27, 2013 (EDT)
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Lodgepole, Tom's pots look great, but heavy. The billy pot I have for my Svea 123 is lightweight aluminum, and still in ok shape. I bought it at REI in the 70's. It is tall and skinny, so fits the 123 well and doesn't present a problem as far as overheating the stove. An old coffee can would make a great pot for a 123, but they rust and there is no top.

I just happened to reread you post about priming paste. I had some from A & H. It was essentially napalm, and came in a tube with the consistency of klister wax. It burned well, but left a residue. It's advantage is it stays where you put it. The Optimus 111c came with an asbestos wick that sat in the priming pan. The same idea...keeping the priming fluid in the pan and not spilling onto the ground. My 111b never had one, nor did the Svea 123.

18th century pot? I have a Baker tent in egyptian cotton, and a canoe length blanket coat made from a Whitney blanket, so I'm not opposed to older style gear.

10:29 a.m. on April 27, 2013 (EDT)
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Erich i won't eat from aluminum pots and pans unless they are hard coated and not scratched. i had the idea the billy was stainless. I was wrong. 

I work with SS and Aluminum and have heavy contact to ally dust in the air.

I don't need the extra contact. Milling these metals places me in a top risk for full body contact to the various toxins.

Even copper dust is not good for people and i deal in that some times.

What the heck is a canoe length blanket coat? Long short of it fits the canoe? I have a Whitney Blanket Coat made by the owners from tentsmiths, and 2 more blankets we traded for with them for a tractor overhaul.

Yup if the billy is alloy copper is heavier.

I have never used priming past. i have never used Sterno as back up to the 123 either, but i do use it to jump the stove in winter. At that time of year you can't remove you mittens for 0.5 seconds so you won't jump a stove from the heat of 2 hands. and that cold stove isn't going in my shirt no matter what!

man I need more coffee this morning. ugg.

11:44 a.m. on April 27, 2013 (EDT)
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Lodgepole, a canoe length blanket coat is mid thigh, usually pull over, but in the same style as a full length capote. Too bad Whitney closed its doors. Theirs was some of the finest wool. Now it is just Pendleton that makes point blankets.

1:36 p.m. on April 27, 2013 (EDT)
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Lodgepole, a canoe length blanket coat is mid thigh, usually pull over, but in the same style as a full length capote. Too bad Whitney closed its doors. Theirs was some of the finest wool. Now it is just Pendleton that makes point blankets.

 

Hi Erich, Lodgepole. In Canada, the Point Blanket is still made by John Atkinson and Sons in England and sold for the past 300 years through the Hudson Bay store.

The Svea is a great little stove. I remember the 111, too. I have never had any problem lighting any of my white gas stoves, even though they are 30 years old or so. Although, when it gets really cold, say minus 50, the gas is a little stubborn.

I have a few Dietz kerosene lanterns kicking around the house in case the power goes out, which usually happens in the dead of winter and no one wants to go out to re-start the generator.

5:11 p.m. on April 27, 2013 (EDT)
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North, thanks, I had forgotten about Atkinson as another source for point blankets.

5:19 p.m. on April 27, 2013 (EDT)
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I know that Early, Collier, Marriott and Thomas Empson produced blankets for the HBC from at least 1730, and apparently other woolen goods for the HBC from about 1640. They were all based in Whitney. In the late 19th century, the woolen mills of Whitney started selling point blankets under their own name, not the HBC. Now days, the woolen industry in Whitney is pretty much gone, and the companies have the goods made in other places, like India, the Czech Republic. As I recall, Early closed their mill in Whitney about 2002. They were the last large mill in Whitney. Atkinson and Sons today produce the point blankets for the HBC label. However, they were only founded in 1828, according to their web site. I suspect that when the HBC and the mills of Whitney had their falling out in the late 19th century, the HBC found Atkinsons very eager to steal business from their competitors.

6:10 p.m. on April 27, 2013 (EDT)
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I have two Point Blankets labelled "Early's Witney Point Blanket made in England"; they are great for those long winter nights around the wood stove.

While living around Dawson, YT as a teenager, there was a little store on Front Street that soled army surplus goods. I would often buy wool army surplus blankets and make my clothes out of them; pullovers, pants, mitts and liners for my mukluks, all hand stitched. I was charcoal grey from head to toe, but I was warm.

Times have certainly changed.

8:11 p.m. on April 27, 2013 (EDT)
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I have 2 "Early's Witney Point Blanket made in England" also one red and one blue. I have assorted other trade Blankets Hudson bay in white with candy stripes, gold with darker gold stripes, another pale green and thin withe HB tag.

I have a unknown horse blanket a sort of sick looking pea green with orange strips and no points..... That's ok this thing is 100% wool and thicker than any other blanket  have. Came to me from a old friend who build bark canoes too. In some ways my camps are still his camps.

I got some Russian trade blankets too, no points but nice wool in a smaller blanket. I won't be buying any more wool blankets unless i suffer a fire or similar loss..

North 1 I make blanket liners for elk mittens i make. These mitts get gauntlets to the elbow, and i never needed glove liners in them.

The elk mitts get welts too, so there is a upper a lower the welt, and the thumb is partly cut from the lower and has another tab. The liners are the same way. These are wicked warm and roomy. I used them most driving team in winter to haul tourist. From 4:00 pm to 1 am tends to be somewhat chilly here. A easy -20 F. My blanket coat would steam after the horses were put up for the night and i grabbed last call at Beef & Ski for a beer roast beef drowned in James River Sauce with O rings or fries...

Can't recall slow gasoline... Slow sterno maybe..

Erich , yeah wool is getting harder to come by. Sad IMO,  more so for me as i seem to be allergic to some of the poly pro, usually cuffs at the wrist and ankles. Also something in Cabela's Sandals where there is a black closed cell foam padding... 10 minutes in them,  and it's like i rubbed poison ivy on me.

10:32 p.m. on April 27, 2013 (EDT)
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I have two Hudson Bay 4-point blankets that I inherited from my mother, and my sister has two. My mother bought them in Canada during one of our visits there (or maybe 2 different visits, since the labels are different sizes, and the one with the smaller label has seen a lot more wear - that's what comes of letting a couple of rambunctious 4 to 10 year olds have them on their beds). I think she bought them in the late 1940s. Here are the labels:


HudsonBayS.jpg


HudsonBayL.jpg

Both are 4 point, and both have the same color stripes - black, blue, yellow, red (plus the 4 point tics).

We don't use them much these days, in part because we live in the very mild climate of the SFBay Area, and in part because we use our eiderdown duvet mostly during the cooler times of year (we sleep with the windows open year around - something those of you in colder climates can't do).

There is high quality wool available in garments and blankets - merino wool from New Zealand.

So what does this off-topic excursion have to do with exploding stoves????

5:43 a.m. on April 28, 2013 (EDT)
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"Lodge Pole said:

..When you open the On /Off valve raw fuel is forced into the main jet, the only jet in this case. where it runs over and down the manifold into the well. I don't usually allow that to happen...

“Whomeworry said:

Nor should you fill the well with fuel.  Your practice of wetting only the burner rose bud (spirit cup) is exactly what the instructions stipulate. That depression you refer to on the tank is not a well, its intended purpose is to strengthen the tank where the burner shaft meets the tank.

Ed

Erich said:

Guys, I have to agree with etdbob here. The well on top of the tank on a Svea 123 is where fuel should go for priming. In the instructions and parts diagram, this depression is called the "priming cup".

Indeed, Erich, the current online user’s manual for the 123 states as you describe.  I used to own a 123 and the Primus #71.  The 71 was essentially the same stove-on-tank design as the 123, except packaged in a blue sheet metal box that served as a carry case/pot stand/wind screen.  I no longer have either stove or their manuals, but recalled one of the manuals expressly instructed not to fill that depression with priming fuel.  Perhaps I am succumbing to Alzheimer’s…

Ed

7:39 p.m. on April 28, 2013 (EDT)
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Whome, paste in that well might be one thing, where plain fuel in that well another eh?

Bill S life is off topic ain't it? That top pic if it is green like it looks is the green my light HB blanket is and it has no stripes or points at all, but the tag looks more like the lower pic to me, gold threads.

Wool is getting harder to come by and it is getting costly. Trust me I know as I hunt the stuff used and new.

I could sleep with the windows open in NH Winter but my wife might shoot me. Then maybe not..... She checked out a tent you Do Not Heat.... for many nights over winter....
DSC08616web.jpg

:-)

10:43 p.m. on April 28, 2013 (EDT)
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Ed, on any of these stoves with a priming cup, the trick is to use enough fuel and not too much. My 111b instructions say to allow 2-3 teaspoons of fuel into the priming cup. They are clear that you should keep your head away from the stove when priming. They say that if the stove burns with a high yellowish flame, it is not properly primed, and should be primed again. The 111c came with an asbestos wick in the priming cup, whereas the 111b did not. The wick prevents spills onto the floor of the box, but I like to see how much fuel is actually there.  A friend used to have a 71, and it was very similar to the Svea 123, but a larger tank, as I recall.

10:00 a.m. on April 29, 2013 (EDT)
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In summer time I found i could hold the stove in my hands a few moments and that was enough to get fuel to run out of the jet... Even a short time in the sun..... That was in other states than NH. There is no sun in NH ever. ;-)

In colder weather, I just used the sterno can in the alloy cup method, which always worked no matter how cold it was. i also firgured if the stove wouldn't run I could still warm up something on the sterno.

1:13 p.m. on April 29, 2013 (EDT)
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Lodge Pole said:

.... That top pic if it is green like it looks is the green my light HB blanket is and it has no stripes or points at all, but the tag looks more like the lower pic to me, gold threads.

 Sounds like you are using an uncalibrated monitor on you computer. The wool should look a slightly yellowish-white on a properly calibrated monitor, due to aging. I am not sure what the staining on the label is due to:


HudsonBayS.jpg

Getting back on subject, proper priming of any white gas stove requires very little priming fluid or paste. If the priming flame is more than 2-3 inches above the burner head (whether "roarer" or "silent" burner, you have used too much primer. Using the paste (Fire Ribbon, for example), 1/2 to 3/4 inch placed on the generator section of the fuel line (that's the section that loops over the burner is plenty and will get the stove going quickly. In temperatures above freezing and using the stove's own fuel, all that is needed after giving the canonical 10 strokes of the pump is to open the valve to give a small "spritz" (hearing the "spritz" with another stove going nearby or when your partner is chattering away is admittedly difficult). I will note that the directions for some MSR stoves (like the Simmerlite) refer to the cup below the burner as the "overflow cup", indicating that you should NOT be running enough fuel into it to overflow. In subzero conditions, filling the cup half-full has always worked for me, whether near sea-level in Alaska in winter or at the 17k camp on Denali.

To repeat and strongly emphasize - your stove (including the Svea 123, Primus 71L, and their Optimus cousins) should be thoroughly inspected before and after every outing, particularly the gaskets. I have gotten away with replacing the gaskets (particularly the fuel tank gasket) as long a 4 years of weekly usage, but I must emphasize "gotten away with". The fuel tank cap gasket in particular tends to harden fairly quickly when fuel is stored in the tank between trips, and hence stop sealing. The same applies to the "remote tank" stoves like the MSR XGK and Primus MFS.

By the way, the stabs at the history of Svea, Primus, and Optimus given above lack accuracy. This is largely due to the fact that, while Primus was the original stove of this type, the 3 brand names have at times (early days) been independent companies, then combined and spun off multiple times by each other and other holding companies, among which was Sievert (Max Sievert's company, and a colleague of Carl Nyberg who invented the "roarer" burner stove in 1892). Sievert took over Nyberg's company early on, with the Campus No. 3, which became later the Primus 71, being introduced in the 1930s, and the Svea 123 being introduced in 1955 as a slightly smaller version of the Primus 71 with the brass windscreen and small aluminum pot that serves as a lid. Unlike Whome Ed's 71, my Primus 71L has a galvanized steel storage/windshield unlike his blue-painted one, which came a bit later. Sievert, as a welding gas company in turn was taken over and spun off by various companies over the years, at one point being spun off by Optimus, then Sievert Welding bought Primus back from Optimus (Optimus at that point was using the Primus name only for compressed gas stoves). The Svea name stayed with Optimus. Another thing that has muddled the picture is that various companies have handled the North American sales of Primus and Optimus products, sometimes for as few as 1 or 2 years.

I would not recommend buying the Taiwanese knockoffs of the Svea 123, called Fire-Lite and Trav-ler 77 and Pak-Cook 235, or the Stansport and Texsport, which are the same stove, just marketed in the US under the Stansport name.

5:05 p.m. on April 29, 2013 (EDT)
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Bill S said:

I would not recommend buying the Taiwanese knockoffs of the Svea 123, called Fire-Lite and Trav-ler 77 and Pak-Cook 235, or the Stansport and Texsport, which are the same stove, just marketed in the US under the Stansport name.

 For which reasons Bill? Mine is not, but i would like to know anyway.

And in your opinion the fuel dries the filler cap gasket out?

I am not so sure that is correct but age has a lot to do with rubber in general drying out.

13 years killed the bootie soles on my Koflach boots, about 12 years killed the rubber parts on my Yamaha motorcycle, less about 6 years killed the rubber drive shaft boot on my Kawi Nomad. car and Driver magazine claims a car tire 6 years old on the shelf is junk, or should be at least steeply discounted.

That proved true with a 6 x 6 x 12 cargo trailer I bought brand new in 06. Last year i had to replace the tires for sun cracks, and the fact these tires wept air from everywhere. Cheap Chinese junk rubber.

I wonder what the shelf live of a rubber gasket for a 1976ish Svea 123 R should be?

And i see the same photo 2 different colors now... the later being the color you say it is.

7:45 p.m. on April 29, 2013 (EDT)
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"dries the...gasket" is not quite the correct description. There are chemical changes going on that affect the plasticity and flexibility of the gasket material. I have had gaskets for the 123 for as long as 8-10 years without them losing flexibility and sealing well when I emptied the fuel tank when storing the stoves, and I have had the gasket get rigid and crack in as little as 3 or 4 years when leaving gas in the tank - same with MSR and Primus fuel bottles. 

Tire aging is a bit different process, but still a chemical change. When I lived in the LA Basin and in the Sonora Desert, we would see tires cracking and weakening in 5 years, while tires here in the SFBay Area tend to last much longer. The mechanisms are smog (ozone primarily) and UV in the sunlight plus high temperatures in the desert.

The Taiwanese knockoff stoves are of significantly lower quality construction, as can be seen easily by comparing the real Sveas with the knockoffs. While there are very high quality products made in Southeast and South Asia, there are a lot of counterfeits that are just plain cheap junk. Some are just poor quality and some are significantly dangerous to health, life, and limb. Often you can tell with a careful inspection, but some of the problems require careful and thorough examination and testing. Working in the occupation you say you work would make it pretty easy for you to spot the problems if you do one-to-one comparisons.

8:00 p.m. on April 29, 2013 (EDT)
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Bill I am talking about a gasket that was in a Svea 123R i bought new in 1976 man.... I would say it had a life span better than it should have been..

As to the cheap knock off everything made in China is low quality if it is a knock off. The North Face is made in china and is up in quality, but not the cheap knock offs. What i am after is are ALL repro 123R's cheap knock offs or are some better than others? What is it that fails?

I know the Chinese make copies of 30 year old Japanese motorcycles and these bike are junk before they get off the boat. the batteries are junk in 90 days and they don't get off the baot that fast. The rubber parts are junk, the flash from the engine castings make the engines junk as well.

What makes the 123R junk? bad needles and seats in the on and off valve? bad press fit or brass joint in the tank? Bad fit for the cap threads?

I believe they are junk, I just want to know how this is so? I believe cheap The North Face jackets are junk too, because of shoddy workmanship, and cheap fake materials. I am just looking for a example.

10:57 p.m. on April 29, 2013 (EDT)
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Bill, thanks for the continued clarification on stove history. I hope my briefs were not too confusing, but didn't want to get into all the various changes in the various companies...that gets very confusing. A history of campiong stoves, or even Swedish camping stoves could fill several volumes with competing manufacturers claiming exclusive innovation of what is essentially the same design. Max Sievert met Carl Nyberg at a country fair, as I recall and offered to market his blow torches. After Primus started selling blow torches, Nyberg marketed his Viktoria cooker. This was followed by the Svea. I didn't mean to imply that this was the Svea 123, which didn't come out until 1955. In the twenties, Nyberg sold his company in the twenties to Sievert, who owned the company until 1961 when it was sold to Esso. Nyberg was a talented inventor. I know Primus claims to have developed the first pressurized parafin stove in 1892, but research I have done indicates that Nyberg came up with the concept of the pressurized blow torch and didn't develop a stove until after Primus. In any event, both Nansen and Amundsen both used Primus stoves.

Nyberg was also an early aviation pioneer, or at least one who tried.

For anyone who wishes to learn more about the history of camping stoves, this site has a lot of great information. http://www.spiritburner.com/fusion/showforum.php?fid/99/

As far as priming fuel, I personally do not use much more than a teaspoon and one half or so in the priming cup of my 111s, but the directions on my 111b, c and t all say to use 2 to 3 teaspoons of priming fuel. The main thing is to get the burner tubes hot enough to vaporize the fuel. Kerosene is more difficult to vaporize, as is diesel, than benzene. As well, stoves like the 111(no letters) have multiple vaporizing tubes so getting them all hot enough to function with parafin is important to prevent sooting.

The provence of a 123 is important to know, as Bill says. In the early 2000s, Optimus was still making these stoves in Sweden. At that time, they decided to discontinue production. That caused such an uproar that A & H had exclusive worldwide rights to sell one last batch. Production has continued, but I cannot say if they are made under license in the far east or still in Sweden.

As I mentioned earlier, any of these stoves, especially using coleman fuel, is a potential bomb. This especially goes for the quirky but cool Borde Benzene Brenner. They are simple, but components must be well made in order to function properly.

6:16 p.m. on April 30, 2013 (EDT)
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Erich,

The Primus company (or rather, these days, the Primus division) claims that Nyberg developed the idea of the stove from the blowtorch, the stove dating from 1892, the blowtorch a couple years before that. I don't read Swedish, but a Swedish friend gave me a rough and condensed translation of what was on the website. The whole thing is so complex and interwoven that it is really confusing. Apparently the families involved were intermarried as well, so there is some question of who was the real owner and who were the relatives and how they participated. On your comment about using Coleman fuel (naphtha), from what I read, the stoves for the first 10-20 years were what we now in the US call kerosene, with what is now called gasoline coming later as automobiles became more widespread so that gasoline became more available.

Anybody got a time machine handy, so we can go back to find out for sure? Where is Dr. Who when we need him and the TARDIS?

7:03 p.m. on April 30, 2013 (EDT)
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Yep, Bill we do need a tardis. In clarification to what I had alluded to above, a bit of digging says that Nyberg started as an apprentice solderer and developed the pressurized blow torch about 1885/6. Primus's Lindquist followed suit with his own torches and marketed his first stove in 1892 and Nyberg marketed his first stove in 1894. As you mentioned, these were all parafin based. If Primus claims Nyberg invented the stove from his blowtorch before they did, perhaps they are correct, rather than the source I found. Maybe no one really knows. I suspect that once the demand was there, everyone jumped on board making their own versions of what, as I mentioned earlier, was essentially the same mousetrap. In a way, not unlike the modern stoves. Penberthy came up with the separate fuel bottle/tank and then others jumped on board with their versions.

7:49 p.m. on April 30, 2013 (EDT)
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All those bombs being driven around everyday on our streets and highways.

Duane

9:44 p.m. on April 30, 2013 (EDT)
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hikerduane said:

All those bombs being driven around everyday on our streets and highways.

Duane

 I didn't recognize your new look man.... Send me a pm before you pull a stunt like this again. I got CRS! It's in the water!

1:00 p.m. on May 1, 2013 (EDT)
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Lodge Pole said:

EtdBob said:

By any chance, does anyone here happen to have a spare key for a Svea, and maybe even a vent pick and the aluminum cup/cover ?

 In don't have any spare key and am missing 1 key for a Svea 123. You will need to be more specific as the 123 and 123 R keys are different. The hollow square is larger on the 123 R type stove.

because you asked for a wire jet cleaner i will assume you are talking about the 123 NO R.

There is a common stainless cup that is very close to the size of the Svea 123 R wind screen. I can fit mine on.

How ever if i have tea and don't wash the ss cup the acid in the tea will draw copper from the brass. You can see that layer of copper the next day.

The brass of the stove and the brass of the wind screen are not the same quality.

IMO the quality of the aluminum cup is also poor, and i would not willingly eat from it. Mine is used to protect the stove and to contain a can of sterno only.. I don't even boil water in it to drink.

If all you want is a cup to protect the stove I have a damaged one that came into contact with a salt some how. I have no idea what salt, but it ate the rim in a deep u shape, and the aluminum is pitted.

If that answer is yes, I would want shipping only.. Then IMO the rim should be cut back below the damage, rendering the cup 1/3rd maybe more shorter.

 Hey Lodge Pole,

I'm the soon to be proud owner of an old Svea. Found one for sale and sent off for it.  It may be the old version but the seller isn't really sure. I'll find out when it gets here. I'm sure it will need a total rebuild but that's OK as I already have a mop and extra gaskets for my 8R and hopefully they are the same size.

I'll probably just make a key, maybe a bit of small caliber tubing hammered square?  I was just curious if anyone had spares laying around. 

Does a tin can of some sort fit over the stove?  That would make as handy a cover as any.

When I get the stove and have it all nice and running I'll post some photos. maybe I'll take it on my Appalachian trail attempt next year.

7:49 p.m. on May 1, 2013 (EDT)
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The only other cup I know of is the stainless steel cup we are all familiar with I think. It is a tighter fit than the alloy cup that comes with the stove.

I can put my ss cup in the stove and push the alloy cup down on the ss cup which is kinda tall. You can make a square key with tubing but it needs enough wall to hold it's shape. You might want to slit the tubing with a jewelers saw if you have one, and get a steel wire hammered square as a mandrill to work on. This will depend on which model stove that appears..

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