Looking for a quality 2 season tent

In preparing for my trip to Thailand I'm looking for a solid 1 1/2 person tent that is a good value for the money. I'll try and get it used but if necessary I'll buy it new as I don't expect it to be overly expensive.   This tent will only need to stand up to 4-6 weeks of use, but I really hate to buy throw away items. Originally I was going to go with Nemo Meta 2p but as I have some time I thought I'd look around and ask advice as all of my tents are 4 season tents.  I know nothing of newer tents as my collection mainly consists of vintage tents.  The tent will need to have the following qualities:

1) Enough room for me and my gear which will be a Bora 80 backpack and enough room to at least move around in.

2) It needs to be natural colors and not bright colors that stand out as I will be camping in many spots where I do not necessarily want to stand out and this my include stealth camping.

3)As light weight as possible but it must be able to stand up to some rain (I am going in the off season regarding rain)and the tent must have an attached floor. I can make a sub floor and a foot print about to Tyvek but it must have an attached floor.

4)As I will be in mosquito country and trying not to get bit,  I'm very apprehensive about light weight netting even on a double wall tent.   It seems to me that tent material is much more sturdy than netting.  Your thoughts on the matter would be appreciated.

5)I would prefer to not have a vestibule unless it has an attached floor as poisonous creepy crawlies abound in Southeast Asia.

6)  I was thinking of the Nemo Meta 2p, but this tent my have to much space for what I need to set up camp in smaller spaces when stealth camping.

Your thoughts on the matter would be appreciated

Fun game!...I'll be back in a minute...

An Integral Designs BugDome combined with a SilDome meets all your requirements, can be found used (if you look hard) or new, is modular, and is decidedly NOT throw-away. Lots of room inside for your gear, plus, since it has a full inner tent, no insects whatsoever can get in.

I'd use just the netting wherever I could, as in such tropical climates I'd not want to block any breezes unnecessarily. The shelter I recommend allows this, as one can pull back the fly to almost any degree, as needed, or remove it entirely.

I am a big fan of Henry Shires' designs on the Tarptent website. 

www.tarptent.com 

Innovative stuff and not steeply priced at all. Henry is a genius designer IMO. Lightweight but not flimsy.

Thanks pillow. That looks promising and in fact that looks spot on. Dual use.............Really lite..............good colors..........perfect for warm conditions and super cheap as a new shelter. All the reviews read good and none read bad. Could it be that the search is over just as it began. It's actually so cheap on Amazon that I just may have to break my "don't buy new rule" as the total between the two pieces Integral Designs Silshelter $145.00/Integral Designs Silshelter Bug Liner $120=$265 . This is a shelter that I could use for year's and is replaceable in an instant. Not only that it should be really, really cheap in a few years when bought used. Thanks again for the great start to what could be a limited search.

Thanks Brerarnold. I did not know that Tarptent made so many products as I never really looked at them. I do remember a number of people having condensation issues with a couple of these tents and I'll have to go back and see what that was about. I will have to investigate these more, and maybe you can tell me, one of the reasons I felt it necessary to have a built in attached floor was the poisonous creepy crawlies that reside in Thailand. For the same reason I need a door that zips shut. I can't tell by looking at them all if they all have floors and zippered doors. I'll go back and look at their site and see what I can determine.

 * Added  to my list of demands:

7) The tent must have a door that zips shut.

FYI apeman...my son lived for two years in Thailand and speaks the language fluently...if you need some help with the country, I am sure he'd love to answer any questions.

Charlie

vigilguy@gmail.com

vigilguy said:

FYI apeman...my son lived for two years in Thailand and speaks the language fluently...if you need some help with the country, I am sure he'd love to answer any questions.

Charlie

vigilguy@gmail.com

Thanks for the offer.  As I'm so ruff around the edges I will need some coaching before going.  My ex-girl friend has a friend that grew up their who now runs a small resturaunt here whom I will be getting together with next week.  I will PM you tomorrow.

apeman: Just to point out, you priced the Silshelter (basically a shaped tarp  which opens/closes by moving a stake) and its corresponding bug liner, while I was originally referring to the SilDome/BugDome, both of which have a zippered entry. Much more room in both length and headroom w/the SilDome...though if you like the trekking-pole set-up of the Silshelter, I've heard of adding a few strips of velcro along the edge to keep it "closed."

@ pillowthread :

Yea,  I had too many window's open on my computer as I read about the SilDome/BugDome.  I then priced out the Silshelter/Bug Liner by mistake.  I'm not used to looking at websites with so many choices and prices as I usually buy vintage stuff.  Thanks for catching that.  The SilDome/BugDome is a little more pricey but I'm sure it's worth it.  I spend a few days reading reviews and trying to track down a used set. Thanks again.

I like the sound of the I.D - when it's hot and humid you want all the netting you can get, could work better then the single skin tarptent (I think they come with the floor and a zip if it answer your question) 

Brian, not sure if it fits the bill as far as what you are looking for but ya may want to take a look at LightHeart Tents. I am thinking the Duo may very well be an option for you.

Here is a link:

http://www.lightheartgear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=12

Sets up with trekking poles like the Nemo ya mentioned above and weighs in at 2lbs(with stuffsack, etc.)

They have a few different models. Some Cuben Fiber coming in at 20oz if thats your thing. 

I slept in the jungles of Thailand for two months on an bamboo mat without any problems. Even hiking in flip-flops back in the day. Anyway, venomous creatures really aren't an issue unless you're doing a lot of evening walks in deep brush without a torch. As for tents, buy something similar to the MH Drifter, but whatever you purchase make sure it has two doors and a complete mesh inner for ventilation. Ok, I have to ask..... why not just stay in cheap bamboo bungalows? Same same but different, no?  

How about a used Peak1 Cobra? I know someone that has one. Good tent at a better price.

Babokulu said:

I slept in the jungles of Thailand for two months on an bamboo mat without any problems. Even hiking in flip-flops back in the day. Anyway, venomous creatures really aren't an issue unless you're doing a lot of evening walks in deep brush without a torch. As for tents, buy something similar to the MH Drifter, but whatever you purchase make sure it has two doors and a complete mesh inner for ventilation. Ok, I have to ask..... why not just stay in cheap bamboo bungalows? Same same but different, no?  

I looked at the pro's and con's of taking a tent. The cons  are it's more weight that I will have to take with me for 4-6 weeks.  That‘s why I‘m trying to keep it as light as possible as I don‘t need a 4 season tent. The Pros are that I will traveling on the fly with no itinerary and with friends who don't have a itinerary either. My guess is that we will be in situations that require us or me to lay up and be in places we didn't quite plan on. The main thrust of the trip for me will be fishing and if you can sleep by the fish, you can catch more fish. I'll also be trying to save some money and I figure that even though lodging is cheap there, I will still save a few bucks that I will be able to spend elsewhere.

Why the Peak1 Cobra?

1) Enough room for me and my gear which will be a Bora 80 backpack and enough room to at least move around in.

Yes

2) It needs to be natural colors and not bright colors that stand out as I will be camping in many spots where I do not necessarily want to stand out and this my include stealth camping.

Blueish green rainfly.

3)As light weight as possible but it must be able to stand up to some rain (I am going in the off season regarding rain)and the tent must have an attached floor. I can make a sub floor and a foot print about to Tyvek but it must have an attached floor.

With floor, around 3lbs 2oz

4)As I will be in mosquito country and trying not to get bit,  I'm very apprehensive about light weight netting even on a double wall tent.   It seems to me that tent material is much more sturdy than netting.  Your thoughts on the matter would be appreciated.

Netting is great. Rainfly will protect you. More on the netting later.

5)I would prefer to not have a vestibule unless it has an attached floor as poisonous creepy crawlies abound in Southeast Asia.

Ok here we go on the netting, rainfly. doors and vestibules.

This tent has 2 doors, 2 vestibules, and mesh inner. The vestibules can be opened and held up with sticks or treking poles. Makes it look like a bird in flight. Also gives a very nice breeze through the inner mesh tent. Yet gives you cover from mist and light rain. Vestibules give you more living area inside the tent. No rolling round or climbing over your gear. 2 doors gives you more set-up options. You can place your gear out in one vestibule, and get in and out of the tent through the other. The mesh inner allows you to sleep under the stars w/o the rainfly. No creepy crawlies. As far as the vestibule floor...Just cut your foot print to include the vestibules.

There are many many reviews on this tent. Look them up. One of the finest 1-2 person tent EVER made!

If you want to look further at the Tarptent line, I think the Squall 2 and the Cloudburst probably fit your criteria the best. I have the Contrail and love it. It fits most of what you want except it is not roomy enough for what you are talking about.

Being from the US and traveling overseas might not be wise with high tec gear. You have to remember that we arnt the most liked country in the world.

3 season tents and what to look for. #1  I think is the waterproofing on the outer tent. To be truely water proof it must be at least  1500mm HH. This alone raises the weight of the tent. If you check around you will find that all the realy good tents that measure the waterproofing have higher weights 3.5-6 lbs. I have to laugh at some of the new UL gear knowing this. Plus most UL gear wont even tell you how waterproof their tents are. A UL tent will be under 2#. Dont go with the tarp tent as the floor is pinned on. This leaves gaps between the floor and the upper skin. Alowing creapys to get in. The tarp tent is a single wall tent too. The ventilation will be poorer than in a true 3 season tent. The ID tent looks nice but is pricey for what it is. And not even that light 3.56 lbs. Plus whats the deal having to buy the outer and the inner seperate?! For gods sake its a 3 season tent! Sell it as a tent! The other one Lightheart looked like a fine tent! And it was the ONLY one that listed the HH rating 3500mm! Very impresive. The only thing that bothers me is the UL fabric. As IMHO it has not been time tested. But at 2.3 lbs WOW!!

The benifets of having a all mesh inner tent is ventilation. But there must be more than one opening. Having two doors and two vestibules is the key here. Believe me you do not want to put all your gear inside the sleeping area in a 1.5-2 person tent Being able to open the rainfly on both sides of the tent allows for the greatest ventilation. And will keep the tent dry as long as you can open it up like a canopy, tarp. If you roll it up the inner tent can get wet. So being able use a stick or trec pole to hold it open is important.

Another thing thats top on my list is the distance from the outerskin from the inner tent. They MUST NOT be able to touch!!!!! If they do water can leak or condensation will drip on you. And this is another reason I like large vestibules. The netting and the outer will never touch.

Oh and storage. I like pockets on the sides of the inner. Hate banging my head on those overhead storage nets in the morning.

BTW there is a TNF Canyonlands tent on Ebay right now. It is a very fine tent. Its drawback is the vestibule is small. But  I have overcome that with 2 tarp clips, string and two sticks. After setting up the tent I connect the tarp clips to the vestibule, add on the strings for stakeout points, and use the sticks as poles. This brings up the vestibule adding enough room for my pack. You must allso seam seal around the zippers. Somehow they missed these areas. The last little drawback is that when you sit up in it you will touch the inner netting. BUT, the netting is far from the outer so it doesnt matter much. IMHO the Canyonlands was and still is the finest 1 person tent that I use. Though it is on the heavy side, just over 4 lbs. But the door is the whole side of the tent. And the vestibule has 2 zippers alowing it to open as a canopy.

I hope this helps.

What about something like a Sierra Designs Flashlight?

Eureka Spitfire (2 person model)?

Both from Campmor and relatively cheap.  Maybe a deal to be found on ebay.

Boy Mike, I really hoped you wouldn't get off on one of your anti-big name, anti-UL rants again, but here we go...

Notice you're the first person in this thread to start criticizing UL gear (laughing at it?), and your use of so much exclamation is pretty fan-boyish. If anything lightweight was suggested, it is because apeman asked for lightweight, so please don't lambast us for it.

Re-reading your prior posts on these subjects, this actually seems to be a bit of a trend...you often criticize someone's suggestion, and then invariably suggest a Peak 1, Alps Mountaineering, High Peak product, or the like...

This is especially apparent here, as your suggestion does NOT meet the OP's list of desired "qualities." You very conveniently glossed over #5 in your reasoning; the Cobra does not have floored vestibules, so please explain to us how you're not spewing fanboy BS?

Oh, and by the way, if anything, I'd bet a Peak 1 (Coleman) tent will be more recognizable as American "bourgeois" culture (especially with all the labels everywhere) than will a little-known manufacturer like Integral Designs...

(Please don't get me wrong here, Mike. I have sincere respect for you and greatly envy your lifestyle. I too will soon be able to live a life of transhumance, and eagerly look forward to it. If you can believe it, I really do think the Peak 1 Cobra looks like a awesome tent. I just want to prevent your sometimes obvious bias in recommending gear.)

Vince, I dont see were I'm blasting away at the big boys. I  just dont think that the fabrics use on some of this UL gear hasnt been time tested long enough to say wether or not it will last for years. And the tents I talked about were a Coleman and a North Face (big brand names). Nor did I meen to lambast anyone.

 I know and understand what Brian is asking for, I was just making some observations of the tents suggested. And told him what I look for in a 3 season tents. He has no expereance in 3 season tents. Brain LOVES 4 season tents. As for #5 Do you know of any 1-2 person 3 season tents that have a connecting floor on the vestibule? I dont. I did tell him why I think a vestibule is important to me. And I suggested that he makes the footprint to fit the inner and the vestibule. I thought this valid. Now look what I said about the Lightheart tent. Impressive! IMHO It would overall fit his needs.

But to spend $300 for a tent he may very well use only 4 weeks would be expensive. As far as the ID tent, it has no advantage over the gear I talked about. Unless you think that selling the rainfly and the inner seperate is a good thing. So yes I made fun of that selling ploy. So many times here I see people suggesting the "Newest, shinny toy" that I feel the need to interject with some of the goldie's but oldie's. There are many tents on the market. Most made for backpacking have their upside ans downside. It is not a onesize fits all world.

BTW did you look at that Lightheart tent? Very cool!

I just looked back on my older post. There has never been a mention of Peak1 nor ALPS. Heck I dont even have a working Alps tent. But I did buy one, used and ripped up. I used the poles, floor for a foot print, and the screening. And If you realy read I have never flamed a person. But mearly suggested a good value for the money. Are you having a bad day?

mikemorrow said:

Being from the US and traveling overseas might not be wise with high tec gear. You have to remember that we arnt the most liked country in the world.

3 season tents and what to look for. #1  I think is the waterproofing on the outer tent. To be truely water proof it must be at least  1500mm HH. This alone raises the weight of the tent. If you check around you will find that all the realy good tents that measure the waterproofing have higher weights 3.5-6 lbs. I have to laugh at some of the new UL gear knowing this. Plus most UL gear wont even tell you how waterproof their tents are. A UL tent will be under 2#. Dont go with the tarp tent as the floor is pinned on. This leaves gaps between the floor and the upper skin. Alowing creapys to get in. The tarp tent is a single wall tent too. The ventilation will be poorer than in a true 3 season tent. The ID tent looks nice but is pricey for what it is. And not even that light 3.56 lbs. Plus whats the deal having to buy the outer and the inner seperate?! For gods sake its a 3 season tent! Sell it as a tent! The other one Lightheart looked like a fine tent! And it was the ONLY one that listed the HH rating 3500mm! Very impresive. The only thing that bothers me is the UL fabric. As IMHO it has not been time tested. But at 2.3 lbs WOW!!

The benifets of having a all mesh inner tent is ventilation. But there must be more than one opening. Having two doors and two vestibules is the key here. Believe me you do not want to put all your gear inside the sleeping area in a 1.5-2 person tent Being able to open the rainfly on both sides of the tent allows for the greatest ventilation. And will keep the tent dry as long as you can open it up like a canopy, tarp. If you roll it up the inner tent can get wet. So being able use a stick or trec pole to hold it open is important.

Another thing thats top on my list is the distance from the outerskin from the inner tent. They MUST NOT be able to touch!!!!! If they do water can leak or condensation will drip on you. And this is another reason I like large vestibules. The netting and the outer will never touch.

Oh and storage. I like pockets on the sides of the inner. Hate banging my head on those overhead storage nets in the morning.

BTW there is a TNF Canyonlands tent on Ebay right now. It is a very fine tent. Its drawback is the vestibule is small. But  I have overcome that with 2 tarp clips, string and two sticks. After setting up the tent I connect the tarp clips to the vestibule, add on the strings for stakeout points, and use the sticks as poles. This brings up the vestibule adding enough room for my pack. You must allso seam seal around the zippers. Somehow they missed these areas. The last little drawback is that when you sit up in it you will touch the inner netting. BUT, the netting is far from the outer so it doesnt matter much. IMHO the Canyonlands was and still is the finest 1 person tent that I use. Though it is on the heavy side, just over 4 lbs. But the door is the whole side of the tent. And the vestibule has 2 zippers alowing it to open as a canopy.

I hope this helps.

 @mikemorrow :

Dang dude that looks like on of my posts containing a lot of ground to cover.

First I agree with you 100%. One of the things I've noticed through my travels of the world (limited) and the travels of others is that when one goes to a third world country that one may not come back with what one left with for a variety of reasons, natural disasters, government over throwes and downfalls, natural disasters, the acts of theft, loss, and most important people seeing what you have and wanting to trade you for your stuff. In some cultures it's bad juju not to trade esp. if the trader wants to trade something that is of higher value that what you have. So, with that being said I have many tents that would fit my needs but don’t meet some of the criteria of color and the fact that I all the tents I have I have "collected" and want to have in my position when I return from my journeys. Second I'm hoping to get much use from this new tent I'm looking at as I'm looking at my trip to Thailand and then the Philippians and even Peru. I will be looking at other countries if I can find really good deals on flights as that will be the main expense once I get my shots ($1000).

You bring up a good point mike, that many around the world do not like people from the US. I do dind more often taht mostly people of the world hate the US govemnent but do like the people themselves.  With that beings said some can not seperate the people from the goverment.  This may piss some off but because of this I will have no problem telling people that I'm of Northern decent and telling them I'm from Vancouver BC if it is necessary. One of the things I've noticed is that if one is showing off their wealth in any manner, that is one of the first things that turns off the local population of those who are in a poorer economic status than the "American". One of the things that trips the breaker for people seems to be Americans who are surrounded with things that are bright, expensive, and showee. With that being said I did not want to use that (expensive) as on of my points as I could find a high teck tent in muted colors that would fit the bill if it were cheap enough.  One does have to think about the fact that my tent might be worth more than the housing that the local population is living in.

Regarding that the floor of tarp tents are pinned to the body of the tent. I did not know that and it would have sucked desperatly if I had bought a tent without know this.  I would have then had to restart my search for another tent.  This is very important and I will have to investigate this more. I feel I need a tent with the entire floor sewn to the body. I don't even want welded seams as welded seams can fail and I'm not at this time concerned with warranty issues.   I'm concerned with quality. A warranty will do me no good while in the middle of a Thai jungle catching fish. It will only help once the trip is over.

Regarding Looking at UL I for the most part agree with you on this issue. I believe that while reducing the weight of the materials of the tent while also reducing the amount and dia. of poles of a tent you decrease what a tent can handle in sever weather. My plans are to mostly be in over covered canopies most of the time during the dry season.  But those are just plans and I really don’t know where I’ll be, so imsut be perpard within reason. With that being said most of the tent failures I’ve seen have happened during the first and second seasons when people have really wimpy tents that would not handle a middle of the spring/summer snow storm at high elevations and or massive thunder storms accompanied with high winds. So, I'm looking for the compromise which is difficult to find. A light weight tent within reason that can handle a modicum of heavy weather. Hence the search for a tent that so far seems to be in the 3-5 lb range. I'd like to keep it closer to the 3 lb range but well see.

I'd say that the peak one meets most of the my original needs except that it has an open floor vestibule. I just will not leave any gear period in a open floor vestibule in the conditions I'll be in with out the vestibule having a sewn in floor for three reasons.

1) Unless the floor is sew in the vestibule is useless as far as keeping out moisture and condensation.

2)I do not wake up well in the morning and, as I'm usually in a fog, I will be unlikely to check every nook and cranny in my gear including my boot's/shooes/sandles. If the tent and the vestibules are 100% sealed from intrusion I have to worry much less about the poisonous creepy crawlies being in anything I own.

3) Far to many times I have come back to camp where my friends (stuff) have been dragged out from under the vestibules and the local wildlife are shredding everything that they have dragged out of the vestibule to see if there is anything they can eat or drag away. This has never happened to me as I usually don’t use my floorless vestibule for anything other than a mud room unless it has a floor or unless I‘m in 100% dry conditions.  Even then I always try and remember to put my stuff in the tent when I’ll be leaving for longer than just a few min.

@pillowthread :

I must come to mike's defense to some degree. I just do not get the UL thing. I understand it to some degree but feel that it has become a silly competition of becoming so light as to be unsafe. Only time will tell. I believe that UL has it's limited applications but, in IMHO, nothing can make up for a stout structure when and if it's needed. I for one will carry the extra 1-2lb. for my safety even if it's over kill. This has save my tail many times as I have watched the destruction of lesser tents. Sometimes the very same tents of the owners who had been laughing at my big, heavy expedition tent only hours earlier.

I think the reason that mike "pushes" the tents he does is that those are the tents he uses. Just as you use a lot of lighter weight single wall tarp/tent style of tents and I myself use and know the larger 4season base camp style of tents,  mike use of  the smaller single/double man tents that are less expensive that the tents that you and I use and know.

All tents have there applications for their intended uses and price ranges. We each seem to have our own specialties within our own needs, wants and desires and what we know and are accustom to.  Hence the reason I’ve asked for all of your opinions.

Mike did, early on in this post, PM me and suggested that I consider the "Bibler Ahwahnee 2".  He did in fact step out of his "tent comfot zone" and knowing what type of tent I might be looking for found the Ahwahnee below on eBay.  What was really funny is that not more than 10 min later a member offered to sell me his Bibler Ahwahnee 2. Kinda odd. I'm now watching the one  that mike found on eBay. The nice thing about this tent is that the vestibule is removable so I don't have to have it and carry it with me as I will have no use for a floorless vestibule.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-Diamond-Bibler-Ahwahnee-2-Mountaineering-Tent-FREE-SHIPPING-/270840635921?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0f5c2211

@ Everybody :  Thanks so very much with your tent recomendations.  I'm going thru them all.  So............With All that being said, and I have said much. Keep the thoughts & ideas coming as I'm trying to buy the best tent for the best price that meets my current needs and I'm in uncharted territory in the area of lightweight 3 season tents. Thanks all for your replies.

 Dont go with the tarp tent as the floor is pinned on. This leaves gaps between the floor and the upper skin. Alowing creapys to get in. The tarp tent is a single wall tent too. The ventilation will be poorer than in a true 3 season tent.

 And exactly what tarp tent you are referring to ? I ask because the ones recommended by some here were Tarptents (the brand not the type of tent) and none of the Tarptents fit your description. All of the Tarptents have sewn in floors, they are hybrids (fly with a wall/s door panel  sewn in) or double wall (as with the Scarps and the Strato Spires) also are well known for the air flow, in fact the most common criticism is that they allow too much ventilation. But do let us know what you had in mind ...

Not that a TT is necessarely a good suggestion given the OP's  personal taste,  but a Double Rainbow would do for me in the situation and I certainly would not lag an Awanee. Great mountain tent but not for hot humid weather.

But I am also biased...

 Franco

 franco@tarptent.com

Once agian, dude, you are looking at a 4 season tent! Old habbits die hard. LOL

I realy think for your travels you might want the 3 season tent. There is a sale going on at http://www.campingworld.co.uk/Models.aspx?ModelID=6158 I even hand picked the tent. The very big vestibule has a floor, but you might need to make some adjustments to it. And it is a make an offer sale. This is the same place that we picked up base camp Rita. But you might have to pull the trigger fast becouse I noticed things are selling out. There is a box in the upper right hand corner for USD. $150 shipped looks like a great deal to me.

Thanks for your offering, Franco. I believe you to be one of the most knowledgeable persons on this site regarding Tarptents, and refrained from positing a response of my own for this very reason.

I think you'll now be getting quite a few follow-up questions...

Hey Franco. This is what the site says "

• Hybrid bathtub floor — clip / unclip floor walls for splash, space, views, and airflow

If it isnt a clip foor please explain this to me? Every site that sells the Double Rainbow states that this is a clipped foor = not sewn in=removeable .

Sorry I had the wrong tent. Those two do have the sewn in floor. I guess that I was liking the Double Rainbow and checking it out for myself. But with a clip floor I for one will pass. Too many creepies getting in.

Its good to know that you are a Tarptent rep. No bias there. But please be aware that not all Tarptents have sewn in floors. And most are single walled. Unless you buy the inner. I find it irratating when sales men dont know their stuff. Sorry about the flame, but your profile doesnt state that you are a Rep. Please fix this as it is an infraction of trailspace rules.

to explain the clip/unclip bit...

 It refers to the corner attachment on the outside.  That is to allow the floor to fall flat so that you have more space. So with the solo Rainbow by unclipping the floor you can fit two x 20" wide mats or you can fit easier 2x 25" mats inside the DR BTW, if worried about mist, you can always add the liner to the DR, (effectively the top part of a water resistant fabric inner)

That takes the total weight (shelter/pole/pegs,stuff sack and liner) to almost 45 oz but it is still not bad for an easy to set up shelter with plenty of ventilation and rain cover...

Franco

So is the floor sewn in and you can clip it up higher to form a bathtub floor? I do find this interesting. I understand the inner tent. And I like it alot. And I have tents that set up outter first. Most of mine have 4-6 inches from the outter. I like this system better than inner first. Becouse when the wind blows and the rains come down hard the outter will flex and the inner just moves with the outter. With inner first tents the outer moves but the inner stands unflexed, allowing the outter to touch the inner. Thustly wicking though the tent.

Just noticed your wording of " water resistant" Just what is the HH in mm? Most the time this will meen 800mm in the US.

 Franco said:

 "But I am also biased..."

Are we not all..............I so do resemble that remark ;-}>

first apologies for the thread shift.

The reason I am following this is because sometimes comments of this type are then repeated in other forums as a "fact"

Here we go.

The liner is water resistant, the fly is , as TT put it "functionally waterproof",  and that means that after 10 years we still have a lot of repeat customers. In other words it has been waterproof enough for them to buy another newer/smaller/bigger version  This is the liner :

 so with that and the mesh door walls it is pretty much a double wall tent. Now , back to the clip bit. it refers to the corner. By clipping it up you put the floor in tension. Clip in use

 Un clipped

 (the other corners are unclipped ) Franco

Thank you for the pictures. They helped me understand what TT ment by a clipped floor.

Hey Franco, Could you please go to your profile and disclose that you work for Tarptent. Thanks Mike

Thanks.

I thought that the franco@tarptent link could have been enough ...

Franco

I was heading for bed and I got to thinking about the tent being " functionally waterproof' Is that like rating a sleepingbag "functionally warm"? I live in a wet area and having a tent functionally waterproof is like saying I hope it dont rain. And I sure wouldnt trust a functionally warm sleeping bag if I was going to camp in sub freezing weather. As far as having repeat custumers, people return to Walmart every day. It dont mean a thing.

I think of the term this way:

Sheet of steel = waterproof

Sheet of fabric = functionally waterproof

In other words, waxed canvas is functionally waterproof, as is silnylon, and 200D PU-coated nylon. "Functionally waterproof" is being any degree of not-completely-waterproof that would still repel the droplets produced by normal precipitation (as opposed to some spray of high-pressure water, the PSI of which could be increased such that any fabric would eventually yield). I believe it is used the same way when referring to tent/shelter fabric by those within the industry as well.

Franco said: "first apologies for the thread shift."

Not a problem.  I'm learning new stuff from each post and were even still on topic.  ;-}>

Dont get me wrong. I truly like this tent. And It looks very roomy for one. But one more question on the floor. I see that it is a bathtub style, how far up the side does it go?

And I still dont like the term "functionally waterproof"

As a guide; A tent with < 1200mm HH is shower resistant

                  1500mm HH is summer camping

                  2000mm year round

                   3000+ is expedition tents

As you can see all are "functionally waterproof" But they are not equal.

If I were to buy this tent for winter camping around here I would like the fly to be around 3000mm and the floor to be 3000-5000mm.

An inexpencive tent with say 800mm HH could be said to be "funtionall waterproof" But it would fail me in the winter.

I would suggest that it will be hard to beat this deal of the week...

Big Agnes Seedhouse 2 Tent - Special Buy - Free Shipping at REI-OUTLET.com

Euph

Mike thanks for the link to the UK Camping World, lots of interesting tents at great prices! 

As for the Tarp Tents, I think they are fairly water proof, their are quite a few vids on YouTube about these tents.  I think some are even from Franco.  I have been looking at the Rainshadow 2 from me and my kids.  Or possibly making one myself. 

Apeman, have you thought about a Hammock?  It seems to me it would be the best thing in the jungle, but of course it dose not meet all your requirements.  Mainly the gear protection, many have bug netting and with a rain tarp it would be dry if it stated to rain.   Not sure how you feel about hammocks, but it could be an option.

Wolfman

That BA Seedhouse 2 deal is hard to beat...but it does weigh 5lbs.

@amEuphorbia & pillowthread : That seed house is hard to beat but as you said pillow that it is a bit heavy and is towards the higher end of what I'm looking for. That is a great price and it will be on the back burner.

@ Wolfman : I have thought about a hammock but I'm afraid it would not work due to the fact that I have a or some sleep disorder(s) which does not allow me to get more than a few hours of sleep at one time each night causing me to move around and toss and turn all night. One of the reasons I will not share a tent with friends.  If you've seen the video of the person who thrashes around all night destroying the covers/tossing and turning and rolling over, that would be me.  Also with the need to rise a number of times nightly to make sure the plumbing is working, makes a hammock not very attractive to me at this point . Along with these reasons I envision ending up some where in a situation where there are no trees there by rendering the hammock useless.

So after much thought and consideration I have come up with these 2 choices. They meet most of my criteria save the color aspect. I can take a piece of Tyvek that can be used for a number of purposes on the road and lightly spray paint it camo colors to cover the tent if necessary. Here are my two top choices for the moment.

The Black Diamond Lighthouse Tent 2-Person 3-Season

http://www.backcountry.com/black-diamond-lighthouse-tent-2-person-3-season  

Weighs in at 3lb.

Cost 140.00 http://www.moosejaw.com/moosejaw/shop/product_Black-Diamond-Lighthouse-Vestibule-Tent_10007871_10208_10000001_-1_?cm_mmc=CSE-_-GoogleBase-_-na-_-Black-Diamond-Lighthouse-Vestibule-Tent&ad_id=GoogleBase

The Black Diamond Firstlight Tent 2-person 3 season

http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/shop/mountain/shelters/firstlight-tent/

Weighs in at 2 lb. 13 oz.

I found one on Craigslist for $150 like new used only four times.

Both have removable vestibules which would allow one to very easily sew in a Tyvek floor which I can waterproof before installing.  I most likely would not do this for this trip.  I may look for a use vestibule for later use.

These tents are almost exactly the same with one being side entry and one being end entry.  All of my tents like these are end entry and I've been wondering about the advantages and disadvantages of a side entry tent.  Anyone having used or owned a side entry tent?    Another advantage is that both of these tents are freestanding.  So setup is easy and it can be staked down after setup if necessary.  At this point the side entry has a slight lead over the end entry.

So...............The weight is right............The vestibule thing is right.............The cost is right.............Has just enough room........The door/bug netting zips shut to keep the critters out.................has a built in floor............easy setup.............

Only #2  My desire for muted/natural colors needs is not meet with these two tents.

If you have any more ideas or thoughts on the matter keep them coming as I will most likely not do anything for a couple of days.  Again thanks to all who have taken their time and made efforts in searching out different tents that would meet my requirements and needs.

Those are both GREAT tents--as is the HiLight--but you might want to look for one of the newer ones made of the "Nano-Shield" fabric as opposed to the "Epic" fabric; there is considerable discussion on the internet over the perceived lack of water-resistance of "Epic" fabric. This is less so with Nano-Shield, though all these issues seem to entail individuals experiencing water droplets appearing on the inside of the tent, and not being sure if it's from rain drops pushing through, or condensation build-up. At any rate, most accounts seem to only note this problem after multiple hours of prolonged rain. If they made one of these tent to fit tall people--yes, I know the Lighthouse is 87"long, but the walls are sloped--I'd have one. (Then again, such a long footprint would work against the purpose of these tents as light-and-fast, plop-down-anywhere-on-the-mountain shelters)

NM

@ pillowthread: 

I checked with the guy that has the First light and it is indeed Nano-Shield fabric. All the Lighthouses are made of Epic. I just got off of the phone with Black Diamond and the reason they got ride of the Epic was it went from 100% waterproof 0% breathable to very breathable and not at all water proof at all at the end of the run of fabric. Nano-Shield was Black Diamond's answer to this. I looked at the Hilight the only real difference between the Firstlight and the Hilight is that the Firstlight has a end door and the Hilight has a side door. The reason I was considering the Lighthouse was it has a side door and I figured that the side door would have better ventelation. Since I wil be in Thailand in the dry season I should be able to leave the door mostly open with the netting closed to take care of all venelation problems. With that being said I got the Firstlight for $150 vrs. Hilight for $370. Hugh difference. Other than the doors they weigh almost the same and both have 27 sq ft. As all the Lighthouses were made out of Epic fabric, and again, at the end of the run, they were very breathable but not water proof.  These are the ones that are now for sale at discount places like Moosejaw. The Lighthouse  might make a great tent for dry climates but don‘t get stuck out in the rain with it.  I will keep an eye out in the next few years for a Hilight (though I'm sure one will come along way before then) as I really think I would like the side door entry for a number of reasons.  The Firstlight will now take the place of all my bivys as it's weight is not much more than my bivys but has much more sq. footage and headroom.  Thanks again one and all for all the wonderful recommendations and information regarding tents.  I learned a lot from all you guy’s (no gals in this thread).   I’m now set for a tent, backpack and boots for my trip. I will be looking for other necessary items but will get to them later.  I will start a thread in Trip planning as the time grows nearer.

Franco. . I have 12 tents Ranging from $24- $350 From all differant makers. I use them for differant reasons . They range from 800mm HH - 3000mm HH. How do you think that I know this? I ask questions. Sorry you felt attacked. You are in sales arnt you. 

Brian I have to agree with Franco and Pillow on this tent that you are looking at. There doest seem to be alot of ventilation with this tent. I think on a hot night you will die in there. Plus there does seem to be a few questions on its water proofing. You might want to get ahold of  a custumer service person and find out more.

Franco said:

NM

 NM?

It stands for Never Mind (it doesn't sound right does it ? , but I have seen others using that for deleted posts so I occasionally use it too)

 I posted before you made your mind up but the post became redundant when you had. So I deleted that.

Franco

 mikemorrow said:
  

"Brian I have to agree with Franco and Pillow on this tent that you are looking at. There doest seem to be alot of ventilation with this tent. I think on a hot night you will die in there. Plus there does seem to be a few questions on its water proofing. You might want to get ahold of  a custumer service person and find out more"

I would agree with you guys if I had to keep the door completely shut during my time in it due to bad weather. Experience tells me that I have never, even in bad weather, not been able to open the top of the door(s) on any of my single wall tents to use as a vent. When one opens the door in a storm it usually increases the flow thru and actully makes condesation even less of a liklyhood due to the vastly increase air movement outside.  As I'm going to Thailand in the "good season" with little chance of rain I will be able to keep the door completely open with the mesh completely zipped up closed to keep out the creepy crawlies. As I've had a bit of experience in single wall tent in a variety of conditions and have never had condensation in a single wall (save when I tried to and: shut all vents and doors to see what would happen, thereby developing a very slight amount of condensation) that is open and properly vented to outside air. I will however test out this theory (as that's all it is till I actually receive the tent) out as soon as it arrives. I believe that it will be a good test here as it is the rainy season here (humid) and will be the dry (not as humid as here) season in Thailand.  I did check to see if this was the older "Epic" fabric and this is a one year old tent that has only been used four times and uses the Nano-Shield Silicone coating on the fabric.

We will see.  The best laid plans mice and men.........................

 Franco said:

"It stands for Never Mind (it doesn't sound right does it ? , but I have seen others using that for deleted posts so I occasionally use it too)

I posted before you made your mind up but the post became redundant when you had. So I deleted that.

Franco"

Makes sence,  thanks.  The only thing I could think of was New Mexico and that did not make sence.

"1 1/2 PERSON TENT"

Well, that would definitely be a TarpTent Contrail. At 24 oz it's light and roomy.

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