NEW - BA Copper Spur UL1 for $209 !!

10:59 p.m. on January 20, 2012 (EST)
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I recently purchased a new BA Copper Spur UL1 from campsaver.com for $244. This was the cheapest Ive ever seen them anywhere since I started eyeball'n one a few months back 

Now I just noticed they've got them for $209 !! Folks if you been sittin on the fence to buy a Spur this deal cant be beat IMO

http://www.campsaver.com/copper-spur-ul-1-tent-1-person-3-seas

11:05 p.m. on January 20, 2012 (EST)
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Wow, I can't spend any money on gear right now, but that is an amazing deal. It's Christmas for anyone in the market for an light solo tent :)

7:51 a.m. on January 21, 2012 (EST)
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Eeeek. I'm not getting into what I paid for mine(see my review)... Ouch, that hurts...

2012 has a different color scheme on the fly, and a few other weight saving mods. Essentially the same tent...

10:35 a.m. on January 21, 2012 (EST)
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I kinda feel your pain Rick. Its just not quite as painful as yours. Wasnt that longago they were goin for $350+. Thats why I jumped on mine at $244. I figured this was a model closeout sale.  Thats the only thing that bring prices down so extremly on anything.

How much more can they do to dump wieght? Get rid of the zippers and go to ties for closing it up? Maybe replace the poles with inflatable straws? Oh I know, now comes with instructions of how to carve your own stakes from sticks and how to weave guylines from grass. Both can be left behind and made again at next camp.

Joking aside, These things are extremely light already, 3 lbs. for a freestanding double wall tent is pretty darn good. I get the whole UL thing and Im trying to do some serious weight shaving myself, but there has to be a limit to a particular piece of gear to still keep form and function intact. JMHO

 

11:05 a.m. on January 21, 2012 (EST)
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I would jump all over an alternative deal there - For the same price the Nemo Obi 1p.  It reviews even better and given the more waterproof floor, it would be a no brainer.

11:20 a.m. on January 21, 2012 (EST)
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Yeah the Nemo would be another nice option. They've also got a smoking deal goin on those too!

Either one you choose, ya might want to move fast on them before they sellout. When I ordered my Spur I didnt order the footprint for it, was gonna make my own. Then a few days later I saw they had them forsale for I think it was $34 so figured I'd go ahead and order 1. But while trying to find something else I wanted for $16 to qualify for free shipping they sold out of em and sale was over. Whats the saying....YA SNOOZ YA LOOZ!

2:00 p.m. on January 21, 2012 (EST)
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I just purchased two new tents. I emphatically DO NOT need another! But it's taking a real effort of will to keep from clicking on the "Purchase" button...

Some folks are going to be getting one HELL of a deal!

5:49 p.m. on January 21, 2012 (EST)
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CWF- the Obi is a nice tent with one problem. If ya notice there is no ridge pole on this model. 

This makes sitting up in it kinda like wearing a hat due to the slope of the sidewalls. Now I'm not sure if you have ever tried to have more than one person in a tent of this size to play cards, chat, etc or while waiting out a storm but the slope on tents that incorporate this kind of design do a poor job in maximizing interior space. 

The sloping sidewalls eat up the interior. Being the Copper Spur utilizes a ridge pole the sidewalls on this model are pretty much vertical. 

Also I would like to note that the floor on the Obi and the Copper Spur are both 30D and the Obi has a thinner fly at 20D as compared to the Copper Spur being 30D. 

12:19 a.m. on January 22, 2012 (EST)
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there's only one left now...

4:46 p.m. on January 22, 2012 (EST)
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Wow, that really is a great price (or "was" ... it's OOS now).  I, too, paid over $350 for mine (including the footprint) in 2010.  I like the pre-2012 style better with the all-beige fly rather than it being part orange.  I prefer that my tent blend in with the surroundings.   But at least they didn't make the whole fly in orange...

I see they've apparently shaved 4 oz from the weight.  That's pretty significant in an already light tent- I'm curious what they did to accomplish this.  At a quick glance the dimensions seem to be the same. I hope the fabric isn't any thinner...

The only obvious differences are that it ships with 8 stakes rather than 9 like before, and it appears they did away with the little "vestibule door" on the back side.

Oh, and now they claim a packed size of 5.5" x 16" rather than 6" by 18".  But IMO the prior pack dimensions were generous.

9:26 p.m. on January 22, 2012 (EST)
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Didnt think they would last long at that price. I hope somebody here got in on that deal.

I too hope they didnt comprimise the structure or fabric. I have'nt got to use mine yet, (Bitting at the bit waiting on Feb. 4 to get here) but was in,out and all around it at the shop several times as well as had it setup in the living room. I dont see much you could do to shave much weight on the thing. Its all pretty thin and lite material. Guess we just gonna have to see.

9:31 p.m. on January 22, 2012 (EST)
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artemis you and your wallet can rest easy now :)

11:39 p.m. on January 22, 2012 (EST)
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Rick-Pittsburgh said:

CWF- the Obi is a nice tent with one problem. If ya notice there is no ridge pole on this model. 

This makes sitting up in it kinda like wearing a hat due to the slope of the sidewalls. Now I'm not sure if you have ever tried to have more than one person in a tent of this size to play cards, chat, etc or while waiting out a storm but the slope on tents that incorporate this kind of design do a poor job in maximizing interior space. 

The sloping sidewalls eat up the interior. Being the Copper Spur utilizes a ridge pole the sidewalls on this model are pretty much vertical. 

Also I would like to note that the floor on the Obi and the Copper Spur are both 30D and the Obi has a thinner fly at 20D as compared to the Copper Spur being 30D. 

 Hey Rick - the Obi actually has clips toward the top of the inner then that clip outward to the fly, negating the requirement of the cross pole and providing the necessary usable height.

You are right about the fly.  However, it has a higher hydrostatic head rating (esp the floor) and is thus more waterproof.  Thread count does not equate to waterproofness, nor durability (i.e. Hilleberg's 30d is substantially stronger than BA's 30d).

12:04 a.m. on January 23, 2012 (EST)
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The Obi is more comparable to the BA Fly Creek/Seedhouse in design. Unless there is a rigid material that is incorporated into the design of the fly(rib) it is pretty much impossible for the Obi 1 Kenobi to generate a flatter type of ceiling/vertical sidewalls like the Copper Spur 1.

As you can see in the photo below the ceiling is somewhat flat due to the rigidity developed by the ridge/spanner pole. This is what generates the near vertical sidewalls.
Big-Agnes-Copper-Spur-UL-1-010.jpg
Also if you look at the photo you can see that the ridge pole also extends out further to one side so that an over hand is developed with the fly.

I just looked at photos of the Obi 1 again(as a refresher) and my presumption was right. Due to the modified A frame design lacking a spanner pole in the ceiling area of the tent there is a greater amount of slope in the sidewall on Obi. 

If ya Google Nemo Obi 1p you will see what I mean. The slope on the sidewalls of the Obi eats up interior space as compared to the Spur's near vertical walls pretty much maximize it.

Ya may be able to see what I mean too some degree if ya look at the Inner pic on Nemo's site:

http://www.nemoequipment.com/nemo2011-obi1p-tent

Here is a pic from a thread on White Blaze that may explain what I mean a lil better. Scroll down to the 3rd post. 

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?72787-Nemo-Obi-1P-backyard-observations.../page3

Another thing that behooves me about some of Nemo's designs is that the rainfly is not full coverage. 

Big no no in my book from experience in really windy/rainy conditions...

My thing is if ya look at the Obi and cut the tent in half from top to bottom you can see how the slope goes into a point at the peak. This is where the whole wearing a hat thing comes into play. I actually looked at this tent before I bought my Spur. 

The ridge pole + the full coverage fly was why I bought the Spur. 


12:17 p.m. on January 23, 2012 (EST)
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CWF said:

Thread count does not equate to waterproofness, nor durability (i.e. Hilleberg's 30d is substantially stronger than BA's 30d).

Durability....

If thread count had no bearing (importance) it wouldn't be listed. If this were the case 70D would be no stronger than 30D. So technically its of great importance. 

The bigger thing is where this heavier material is utilized. I wouldn't buy a tent with a 30D floor and a 70D fly. But I would buy a tent with a 30D fly and a 70D floor. 

In regards to the waterproofing I have to agree to some extent. The floors are all typically coated so it kind of negates the thread count in regards to strength. Hille's Kerlon is a great example of that. 

You could have(notice I said you) a floor that was 20D with a 5000mm hydrostatic head rating if a company wanted to produce it. Kinda defeats the UL purpose of the light weight material though.

Also I believe it has alot to do with the weave. BA for instance has a double spun weave. So in essence this should increase the durability of the material in theory.... Should can be a big word though.

1:13 p.m. on January 26, 2012 (EST)
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Yeah - no.  a 30d floor with triple coated silicon is going to be much more durable than a 70d floor with one coat.  It also depends on the type of fabric.  Many assume a 70d poly floor will be more durable than a 30d silnylon floor.  No true.  In fact, poly is known for tearing heavily at any place that there has been sewing.  Silnylon stretches nicely.

Is it important?  I guess.  But it needs to be considered in context of a lot of other factors.  Just like when discussing something that has a high hydrostatic head and a high thread count but yet proves to leak because of the way the fabric is tensioned.

"You could have(notice I said you) a floor that was 20D with a 5000mm hydrostatic head rating if a company wanted to produce it. Kinda defeats the UL purpose of the light weight material though."

No comprende.  There are fabrics that are 0.74oz per square yard that not only almost completely tear resistant but also have a hydrostatic head of well over 3500mm.  The three - UL, durability, and waterproofness are not mutually exclusive.

1:25 p.m. on January 26, 2012 (EST)
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Hey guys,

I e-mailed Henry Shires to ask about the fabrics in his tents and (I hope he doesn't mind me sharing his response) it was very interesting:

Hi Patrick,
We use 30D fabrics for both floor and canopy/fly.  The head rating is somewhere about 1500mm for the floor.  I can tell you we just don't get reports of floor water penetration with the possible exception of situations where an impermeable (plastic) groundsheet is used and water gets trapped between the groundsheet and floor.  In that situation it's possible to create high pressure water bubbles which, if rolled on, can get forced through the floor.  I always tell people it's better to put a groundsheet on the inside  if you're expecting heavy rain or camp in an area that it likely to flood.
Thanks.


Henry Shires

I bolded the text for this post.

I've noticed that Tipi does the same thing in his Hillies (puts a tarp on the inside). To me this is counter intuitive but seems to be the prevailing wisdom.

 

1:43 p.m. on January 26, 2012 (EST)
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We had a discussion over at BPL.com and the vast majority put it on the outside, not inside.  For me, the only reason to use an additional groundsheet would be to protect the floor from sandstone (ex), not to increase the waterproofness.

On a related note, I have a couple of Tarptents and I have never had penetration through the floor.  I have also heard that Henry is now using a silnylon of closer to 2500mm.

1:50 p.m. on January 26, 2012 (EST)
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CWF said:

 I have also heard that Henry is now using a silnylon of closer to 2500mm.

 I would tend to trust the word directly from his mouth (or email) about what he is using,  rather than third or fourth hand heresay. 

2:47 p.m. on January 26, 2012 (EST)
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gonzan said:

CWF said:

 I have also heard that Henry is now using a silnylon of closer to 2500mm.

 I would tend to trust the word directly from his mouth (or email) about what he is using,  rather than third or fourth hand heresay. 

 I am.  The floor is  "Shield Silnylon" that has a 2500mm HH (a Sil-PU double coating blend) independently tested by Richard Nisely.

Don't start something you can't finish.

3:12 p.m. on January 26, 2012 (EST)
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What I was saying in regards to the 20D material with a 5000mm hh rating was that this could be achieved by different methods of coating, etc as well as multiple layers. 

Oh well, it was just an example and of no great significance. 

I actually had this discussion with a tent manufacturer. But based on the exchange in regards to Henry Shires floors its somewhat apparent to me that companies have no idea of what materials they use. 

Soooo, I guess from here on out I will no longer contact companies when it comes to inquiring about the products that they produce. 

I will guess. Thats what they do right? So what is the point in me wasting my time by making a phone call and asking questions when I know about as much about their product as they do....

Time to go watch the grass grow....

3:42 p.m. on January 26, 2012 (EST)
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CWF said:

gonzan said:

CWF said:

 I have also heard that Henry is now using a silnylon of closer to 2500mm.

 I would tend to trust the word directly from his mouth (or email) about what he is using,  rather than third or fourth hand heresay. 

 I am.  The floor is  "Shield Silnylon" that has a 2500mm HH (a Sil-PU double coating blend) independently tested by Richard Nisely.

Don't start something you can't finish.

I am sorry you feel like I, or others, have affronted you and are not willing to follow through. I can assure you there was no intention of offence, and no one has displayed any indication of self recusal.

From Patman's correspondence, Henry Shires himself contradicts what you are reporting. 

Curiously, what is it that I have started? I merely established my position: Henry Shires in direct correspondence says one thing, you report another, and I am inclined to trust the source, rather than a a third hand report of what someone else uses. 

That said, being that I do not know when Patman's correspondence took place, it is possible that he has subsequently decided to use a different fabric. It is also possible that it is not a different fabric, but that out of integrity he is only willing to quote a more conservative figure. It is also possible that there is a misunderstanding or miscommunication involved in one or more persons' representation. Regardless, my position is that until there is more complete and reconciling information, I will take the word of the man who actually makes the tents. 

12:29 p.m. on March 2, 2012 (EST)
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No Copper Spur 1's at the moment, but the "Deals" section of Big Agnes's site -- bwear.com -- can be worth keeping an eye on, especially late season.

12:38 p.m. on March 2, 2012 (EST)
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Apparently from what I have learned BA shaved some of the weight off of the new Spur by 86ing the small pass through zippered door opposite of the entry point. 

This is a great place for boots, etc.

Big-Agnes-Copper-Spur-UL-1-034.jpg

Sorry, as I said in my review of this model I wouldn't do away with this feature just to save some weight.

Then BA turns around and does exactly that lol. Go figure. 

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