Boots with Waterproof linings - loose or bonded?

2:33 a.m. on February 22, 2012 (EST)
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Hi

Does anyone have any boots or shoes with laminated waterproof liners (Goretex or similar) who can help with the following? I just need to know whether this material is supposed to be firmly stuck and bonded to the inside of the shoe, or whether some looseness is normal/common.

I have just bought a pair of expensive Zamberlan Cristello women's leather hiking boots. Yum. I really love them and they are so comfy. HOWEVER I've noticed the Goretex lining seems to be loose inside the boot, not bonded securely to the leather. I don't know if they were like this from the beginning as I've only noticed it where it is forming uncomfortable wrinkles which worries me (I've only had them a week, just few hours' trail time so far ...) I can't seem to find out whether or not this is normal, or whether it's a manufacturing fault in the boot.  The retailer couldn't tell me, and I can't seem to contact Zamberlan. 

Cheers

Donna

2:39 a.m. on February 22, 2012 (EST)
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Hey Donna, welcome to Trailspace.

Other than my Lowa walking/running thingamabobbers I do not own any footwear with gore-tex.

Have you tried contacting Gore-tex and firing this inquiry to them? 

They may be able to answer this better than anyone.

Here is a link to get in touch with them:

http://www.gore-tex.com/remote/Satellite/content/customer-service/contact-us



3:12 a.m. on February 22, 2012 (EST)
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Thanks Rick nice to hear from you.

Yes I've already emailed Gore-tex a couple of days ago and only response was automated "we'll be in touch". I've just tried again. Do your Lowa walking/running thingamabobbers have lining that is loose, or is it fully stuck to the shoe?

3:31 a.m. on February 22, 2012 (EST)
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I never really looked but I will take a closer look later and give ya a heads up on what I see.

3:56 a.m. on February 22, 2012 (EST)
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I have a Gore-tex boonie hat where the membrane is exposed. It is completely loose except where it is sewn to the brim. The membrane has tiny pores to pass water vapor and they would be plugged if it were laminated to another material.

With my boots and jackets, the membrane is covered by a liner to protect it so you cannot see the Gore-tex membrane.

4:11 a.m. on February 22, 2012 (EST)
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Thanks Snow Goose - just wondering, though, whether the liners in your boots are firmly bonded to the outer material of the shoe, or whether they are loose like the liner of your hat?

1:59 p.m. on February 22, 2012 (EST)
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I have some older Vasque Sundowners, and the goretex is basically a floating booty sewn in place around the upper ankle padding.  I've never been crazy about the design because when your feet sweat and you pull your foot out of the boot, you can sometimes pull the inside lining and goretex membrane out.  You then have to sit there and re-seat the inside, getting all the wrinkles out etc.  It's not a big problem, but I consider it a design flaw.

2:40 p.m. on February 22, 2012 (EST)
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I checked my Lowas... The membrane/liner really isn't attached uniformly in the shoe.

It floats as stated above in the other responses. 

3:22 p.m. on February 22, 2012 (EST)
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i think that the boot manufacturers deal with gore tex 'booties' differently for nylon/leather boots than for all-leather boots.  with shoes that are lighter and more like running shoes in terms of nylon/leather construction, the membrane tends to be bonded somehow to the shoe rather than 'floating,' whereas you tend to see the gore tex bootie/sock only attached to leather boots in a few spots. 

i don't think that applies across the board and don't know, functionally, why there would be a difference.  maybe it's easier to bond the gore tex membrane to synthetic parts of a shoe; maybe the bonding process lessens the effectiveness of the membrane's ability to let moisture out, hence having the membrane 'float' actually increases its ability to vent moisture.

my only pair of gore tex shoes is a pair of trail runners, and the membrane definitely does not float, it is firmly fixed to the shoe.  it might even be encased between a thin lining and the outer elements of the shoe. 

 

 

4:04 p.m. on February 22, 2012 (EST)
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fwiw, Like leadbelly I also have a pair of goretex trail runners and there is no discernable loose fabric

4:38 p.m. on February 22, 2012 (EST)
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Thanks to you all, I'm very grateful for you all sharing your time and experience. So sounds like I'm not alone with the loose boot liners, and it's not necessarily a faulty pair of boots, just the way they are! So now I need to work out if it's going to be a problem on a multiday hike, or whether the wrinkles tend to just wrap around my feet and not cause any problems... I guess only time will tell, if I don't return them (I really don't want to, they are so lovely!)

6:10 p.m. on February 22, 2012 (EST)
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Boots and bigger boots both bonded.  One a little better bonding that the other.

6:21 p.m. on February 22, 2012 (EST)
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Here is a shot of the inners on my Lowa Argons:

Argon-GTX-liners-002.jpg

Its a little blurry but this will give you a better idea of what I am seeing than words. 

5:24 a.m. on February 23, 2012 (EST)
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Oh that is great Rick! Your shoes are so CLEAN!!!! Mine are more loose and wrinkly than that and the wrinkles are in the toe area too which is the bit that worries me - along the sides of the forefoot, ball and toe area. I'm gonna see can I take a photo too, what a good idea! 

6:04 a.m. on February 23, 2012 (EST)
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Ok here's the boots, aren't they beauties!!


Zamberlan-Boot.jpg

And here's a look inside ...


peek-inside-Zamberlan-boot.jpg

I'm going in !!!!


in-boot-one.jpg

This (above) is about as far as I could poke the camera in  but you can see the beginning of a wrinkle along the left side which extends right down into the toebox.

____________________________________________________________

And another one (below) along the little toe side of the right boot (this is the one I felt first!)


right-boot-wrinkle.jpg

I hope these pikkies make sense - they do to me but I know what I'm looking at...

BTW you lot have all been so much more helpful than Zamberlan, Goretex or the retailer of these boots!!! All of whom have just seemed a bit bemused - except Zamberlan, who still have not replied to my email. Maybe I'll send them some of these pikkies too!

8:04 a.m. on February 23, 2012 (EST)
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If your going Zamberlan you may as well go with their all leather, it is what they are known for! My Zamberlan trekkers are as waterproof as waterproof gets. No liner to fuss with then! =P

Surprised they didn't get back to you, would have thought they would. Did you actually try to call their customer service line in Italy? This is the USA line in San diego 888-745-4774, the Europe line is +44 1614320319.

2:19 p.m. on February 23, 2012 (EST)
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Donna said:

Oh that is great Rick! Your shoes are so CLEAN!!!! 

Lol, they have yet to see the trail but trust me they will(shorter trips, lighter pack.)

I have to agree with TheRambler. From my own experiences when it comes to boots, all leather/no membrane is the way to go. They breathe better and honestly last longer.

I have worn my Scarpas in warm weather, snow, washouts.., etc. As long as you maintain the leather they will be just as waterproof as a boot with a liner.

We have had many conversations here in regards to that subject.

4:57 a.m. on February 24, 2012 (EST)
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A picture is worth a thousand words. I now understand what you are concerned about. The inner liner that protects the Gore-tex membrane and provides comfort for your foot has rolled/folded/buckled into a shape that is uncomfortable on your feet.

In my boots, Cabela's Whitetails, this inner liner is fixed to the boot and does not move around any. There are no folds or wrinkles in the fabric to annoy my feet. It is completely smooth. My feet are sensitive, so something like you show in your pics would absolutely drive me crazy if I had to wear it for any length of time.

Bottom line with any boot is how it feels on your foot and how it protects them from harm. No matter how good they may look, if they bother your feet to wear them or develop a condition that may cause blisters, they are not worth keeping.

5:16 a.m. on February 24, 2012 (EST)
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Hi All

I'm glad my pictures explained some. It's actually worse in real life than it looks in the pictures, as the pictures don't show how raised the folds are! My partner thinks I'm completely nutty now! (Caught me plunging camera into boot on kitchen bench last night!)

The retailer has finally gotten back to me and offering to replace the boots. Sorry I just realized this is like some sort of boot shopping soap opera! Only the truly obsessive are still with me at this point, I'm guessing!!! (LOL)

I'll have a look at the offered replacement pair but if they are no better I'll ask for a refund. Thanks for all the good advice about liners and full leather boots. I would love to buy these and the Zamberlan Trekker RRs look good, but only available in Australia by online ordering, so there's postage costs if you return etc. My partner has ordered a pair so I'll have a look at those.

Happy Trails everyone!!!

6:50 a.m. on February 24, 2012 (EST)
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Only available in Austrailia? We talking about the same boot?  lol, tons of places sell them. They are called Zamberlan 308 Trekkers now i think. REI, Zappos, Altrec, and my personal favorite Vermont Gear(cheapest price on alot of things and free shipping, and awesome customer service), to name a few places.

7:12 a.m. on February 24, 2012 (EST)
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I recently received a pair oF Lowa Zephyr GTX boots.  The bootie looks just like Ricks.

In fact, I just looked at my 10 year old Vasqe Clarions - they look the same too.  Some wrinkles, but nothing that would bug me.

 If you need contact info for Goretex, I believe I still have their email address. I have found them to be great folks to work with and their customer service is awesome.

 

11:17 a.m. on February 24, 2012 (EST)
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Donna...you are new here so let me give ya a heads up....pssst....I don't think these guys live in houses...they live in tents with back packs and boots and gear 24/7/365. No really. They all have a weird UPS drivier the delivers to them in the back country because they live and breath this stuff. It is the best information I ahve ever gotten on any subject. It is great place to hang out in and learn about all sorts of good hiking/trekking/back country stuff and they are genuinly nice folks. Stick aroung...bet you are one of them.....admit it.....now.

12:12 p.m. on February 24, 2012 (EST)
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giftogab said:

Donna...you are new here so let me give ya a heads up....pssst....I don't think these guys live in houses...they live in tents with back packs and boots and gear 24/7/365.

I personally try . :p

No really. They all have a weird UPS drivier the delivers to them in the back country because they live and breath this stuff.

I wondered why my UPS driver did his deliveries on a pack mule.

It is the best information I ahve ever gotten on "any" subject.

Please do not ever ask me about nuclear physics. I would just confuse myself.

On that note I am hitting the ridge.

Gonna find me one of dem dere bigfoot things. Talk to ya in 3 days(a short trip.)

 

11:29 p.m. on February 24, 2012 (EST)
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Oh Rambler sorry my phrasing was confusing - "only available in Australia by online ordering" - I meant - you can't go into a shop here in Australia and try them on... so I'd have to order them from O/seas and that means big shipping costs. The Land of Oz is a small market so only a small range makes it into shops here. But that's Ok, I'll work it out. I'll have to look into the mule delivery option! 

Giftogab yes I have really enjoyed my short visit to Trailspace, haven't laughed so much for a while! - might pitch my tent. I'm only a newbie with not much to contribute, but love reading all the info. from more experienced folk.

1:08 a.m. on February 25, 2012 (EST)
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I am not near as experienced as the men and women here, but sure am learning good stuff!

7:57 a.m. on February 25, 2012 (EST)
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Ahh, now that makes sense lol.

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