Mesh body pack?

7:05 p.m. on April 1, 2012 (EDT)
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I was on another thread that was discussing waterproofing a pack and had thought that got me kinda wondering.

Has there ever been a company that has produced an internal frame pack with a mesh body? Sounds like a silly question but it may make a bit of sense.

A) it would not retain water being it would be mesh

B) just pack your gear in drysacks so that wouldn't be a problem

C) it would probably be pretty light

D) dependent upon type of mesh used it may be pretty durable

I know I know, I am thinking too much but I am just curious as to whether or not a company has tried this approach.

It probably wouldn't be very suitable for winter but then again I have no clue.

I suppose its safe to assume that my gears are spinning. Maybe its boredom. Either way I am a curious feller. ;)

7:47 p.m. on April 1, 2012 (EDT)
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I would guess it would have to be very heavy duty so as to keep any kind of shape. It might work for smaller packs but I don't thing you could make it so it would not sag under heavy weights. Maybe dyneem or sprectra would work to keep it light enough and strong enough. The main thing I'd be worried about would be it's superior ability to catch on branches and the such. Could also be a problem with rodents unless again its made of spectra.

Now if one were to make a thing such as you are talking about with shoulder harness for the proper storage of tents and the such. That would be the gig!!

7:50 p.m. on April 1, 2012 (EDT)
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That is one interesting idea!  I'm 100% with apeman.  Something of that nature would have near-epic abilities in the branch-snagging department.  

How about a frame system with industrial velcro on it?  Then, you could velco together your drysacks... ultimate modular pack!  But... I digress.  

7:54 p.m. on April 1, 2012 (EDT)
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Lol. Maybe the pack could go on the front of the individual? Might be good for bushwacking. just take of on a dead sprint into any patch of over growth and rip it all out?

Should be fun in green briar patches.

8:13 p.m. on April 1, 2012 (EDT)
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Cannot recall the brands, but there are several external frame pack systems that use straps in lieu of a big mesh bag to secure stuff like dry bags.  If you already have a frame it is easy to come up with your own system.  I believe Mystery Ranch has a model that would work similar to what Rick describes.

I personally have no problems with my pack retaining water – the water proof coating has long ago worn off.  I use a large trash bag and a Go Lite umbrella to keep my kit dry while underway.

Ed

8:40 p.m. on April 1, 2012 (EDT)
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In winter I would think that snow would get trapped in between all your stuff, then refreeze into nice solid lump.

11:12 p.m. on April 1, 2012 (EDT)
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In winter I would think that snow would get trapped in between all your stuff, then refreeze into nice solid lump.

 

Dependent upon how you look at it this could also be considered a positive. I could carry a few Porterhouses, keep my sushi cold, have my Ben & Jerry's for the week, and a whole slew of other fun stuff... who needs gear when I have a portable mini-fridge on my back.

12:20 a.m. on April 2, 2012 (EDT)
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jump on it.

12:41 a.m. on April 2, 2012 (EDT)
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Pitch it to GoLite Rick! Or kickstarter. I hope you're not April foolin. Seems like mesh could snag easily.

12:53 a.m. on April 2, 2012 (EDT)
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:)

12:58 a.m. on April 2, 2012 (EDT)
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Dana Design had a unique pack that doesn't necessarily fulfill your query, but I did think of it when I opened this thread.  It was called Racer X (any Big Black fans?).  If this doesn't show up, google "dana design racer x"

http://image.wangchao.net.cn/lvyou/1257262634651.jpg

1:15 a.m. on April 2, 2012 (EDT)
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Hmmm, that's kinda neat. The cross stays(rods) is different. Not a bad looking pack either.

1:16 a.m. on April 2, 2012 (EDT)
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Rick-Pittsburgh said:

ocalacomputerguy said:

In winter I would think that snow would get trapped in between all your stuff, then refreeze into nice solid lump.

 

Dependent upon how you look at it this could also be considered a positive. I could carry a few Porterhouses, keep my sushi cold, have my Ben & Jerry's for the week, and a whole slew of other fun stuff... who needs gear when I have a portable mini-fridge on my back.

Headlines:

Starving man found trying to chisel his frozen pack apart.

2:37 a.m. on April 2, 2012 (EDT)
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more Racer X
DANADESIGN--RacerX--goodview--02.jpg


DANADESIGN--RacerX--goodview--05.jpg


DANADESIGN--RacerX--goodview--09.jpg


2:39 a.m. on April 2, 2012 (EDT)
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Rick,

ULA-Equipment has something like that at least from the perspective of a harness that utilizes drybags.  You can vary the size of the pack by varying the size of the drybag but still retain a nice backpacking harness.

They call it the Epic:

http://ula-equipment.com/epic.asp

9:18 a.m. on April 2, 2012 (EDT)
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Equinox LTD used to make a few mesh bags: http://www.equinoxltd.com/the-gear/backpacks-and-pack-covers/

2:37 p.m. on April 2, 2012 (EDT)
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http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___90344

people who hunt and carry out big game would be familiar with the hauling frame concept.  you could pretty much use any bag you like with this - dry bag, mesh bag, duffel bag even.  kelty sells a packbag to attach, too. 

2:45 p.m. on April 2, 2012 (EDT)
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I was thinking that a mesh bag may make a good summit bag(dependent upon summit of course.)

On the note about the bag deforming maybe something like carbon fiber rods ran vertically in in various areas could negate this problem and at the same time keep weigh uber low?

6:23 p.m. on April 2, 2012 (EDT)
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following up on your suggestion, Rick, it may be patented, but the Boreas backpacks that Backpacker's annual gear issue liked have a series of diagonal compression/webbing straps that reinforce the lightweight packbag & help keep it from sagging. 

i imagine that stitching some 'ribs' like this onto a mesh bag might give it just a little more shape without adding much weight.  without something, i think a mesh bag would sag, a lot.  to me, mesh would be a really interesting idea for canoing/kayaking w/occasional hiking, so long as the contents were in dry bags.  (alternatively, you could just use a dry bag w/shoulder straps, which is where most people end up when they spent a majority of time on the water). 

 


boreas-lost-coast-602.jpg

 

not to hijack the thread, but my experience with summit bags favors durability over saving weight.   someone above observed that mesh has a tendency to snag - that's particularly concerning with the the hard scrubby undergrowth you see as you approach treeline on a lot of mountains.  i also don't see mesh doing well with a lot of sharp rocky outcropping or abrasion, and a mesh packbag would get sliced to ribbons doing any serious bushwhacking.

my choice for an extremely light summit bag would be some kind of nylon/spectra grid like this (golite ion - no longer in production, about 1600 cubic inches, dyneema grid, 10 ounces, no frame or backpad):

 


ion.jpg

 

the ion i have is servicable, but the shoulder strap attachment points are a little suspect after much use.  the current golite jam pack (the 35 liter one) weighs in at about 26 oz. and holds about 2100 cubic inches, made from the same material.  there are some ultralight nonwoven dyneema/cuben fiber packbags around, but most of them are either minimal to the point of being pointless or more full-featured and pretty darn expensive.  (feel free to correct me if there are better options in this category!). 

i use the cold cold world ozone as a summit bag today. (2300 cubic inches, frame is a double-folded foam sit-pad).  admittedly hefty at 36 ounces but simple, comfortable, and extremely durable.  
ozone-front.jpg

 

though i wouldn't personally compromise the integrity of the packbag, someone concerned with allowing water to escape could modify these by punching a small hole in the bottom & finishing it with a rust-resistant grommet, like the bottle pockets on my other large daypack, to allow water to escape. 

 

7:32 p.m. on April 2, 2012 (EDT)
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I love those CCW Ozones.  I picked up an old Chouinard prototype a few years ago off eBay that is incredibly similar to the Ozone.  THICK ballistic cloth before it was probably called that.  This pack is just beautiful, and it carries wonderfully, too.  A work sack or day pack.  I'm sure it was designed to be a climber's pack, but man is it heavy for its size.  I need to get one of those Ozones.  He'll make it out of Dyneema and do any kind of custom work you can imagine for a lot less than McHale.  Different animals, so it isn't fair to compare them.  Just wanted to mention you can customize the heck out of those CCWs if you so desire.  Some examples at this good blog:

http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2011/01/my-climbing-pack.html

7:48 p.m. on April 2, 2012 (EDT)
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Zeno Marx said:

I love those CCW Ozones.  I picked up an old Chouinard prototype a few years ago off eBay that is incredibly similar to the Ozone.  THICK ballistic cloth before it was probably called that.  This pack is just beautiful, and it carries wonderfully, too.  A work sack or day pack.  I'm sure it was designed to be a climber's pack, but man is it heavy for its size.  I need to get one of those Ozones.  He'll make it out of Dyneema and do any kind of custom work you can imagine for a lot less than McHale.  Different animals, so it isn't fair to compare them.  Just wanted to mention you can customize the heck out of those CCWs if you so desire.  Some examples at this good blog:

http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2011/01/my-climbing-pack.html

 I like those.  But I read the Blog and that is Dyneema Gridstop, not full Dyneema (ripstop fabric with strands of dyneema in a cross check pattern).  Full Dyneem fabric is approximately 2.5 times the price of 210d Dyneema Gridstop.  Mchale will use full spectra / Dyneema and it is 4-6oz per square yard.  It is also unbelievably durable.

Please correct me if you can get full dyneema on that pack because I might be interested.

8:10 p.m. on April 2, 2012 (EDT)
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The blog was just to show a couple examples of custom work; one a slight tweaking, and the other a complete custom job.  I wasn't claiming either of those custom packs was Dyneema.  I didn't think my wording made that unclear.  As far as I'm told, CCW will do practically anything you want.  I think he'll even use whatever fabric you send him if he doesn't have it in stock.  Don't hold me to that, but I seem to remember someone talking about sending him the materials and letting him do the tailoring.

9:11 p.m. on April 2, 2012 (EDT)
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Can't buy dyneema on the street.  Too bad.  If he could supply it, however....

10:45 p.m. on April 2, 2012 (EDT)
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Worth asking. Wild things used to offer the andinista in spectra/dyneema.

4:30 p.m. on April 3, 2012 (EDT)
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Not to divert the great ideas here (Dyneema Gridstop is light and very tough) but the OP may not be totally out to lunch on the mesh idea. I have a Deuter pack with mesh side pockets for water bottles and after a couple of years of wear and tear, they're still in pretty good shape. 

What about using a light sold fabric on the sides, where the likelihood of snagging is strongest, and using mesh in the central and inside sections where it would be more protected?

(just brainstorming)

4:42 p.m. on April 3, 2012 (EDT)
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That could be a possibility peter in regards to the solid fabric sides. Granted it may increase over all weight but at the same time it would probably help with the snag issue.

I would be willing to bet if a pack was made like this it would be rediculously light dependent upon what materials are utilized...

Also, if the mesh was a finer type of mesh(sides) that didn't have holes in it the size of a laundry bag this may work as well.

So maybe fine mesh for the sides and launrdy bag type(not same material) for the rest of the pack.

I would be willing to say that sweaty back syndrome would be substantially less with this type of pack as well.

Woo hoo, new market...

3 season/hot weather packs. ;)

6:10 p.m. on April 3, 2012 (EDT)
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Rick-Pittsburgh said:

That could be a possibility peter in regards to the solid fabric sides. Granted it may increase over all weight but at the same time it would probably help with the snag issue.

I would be willing to bet if a pack was made like this it would be rediculously light dependent upon what materials are utilized...

Also, if the mesh was a finer type of mesh(sides) that didn't have holes in it the size of a laundry bag this may work as well.

So maybe fine mesh for the sides and launrdy bag type(not same material) for the rest of the pack.

I would be willing to say that sweaty back syndrome would be substantially less with this type of pack as well.

Woo hoo, new market...

3 season/hot weather packs. ;)

I would guess that the mesh itself would have to me made of a material that is much, much stronger than the solid material that packs are made of currently even if the mesh were had smaller holes than the laundry bag type material.  Remember that things inside as well as outside of the pack will catch on the material.  Things that would normally not have to be put in stow bags will have to be if you use mesh.  I myself would not touch a mesh pack as besides the mesh itself catching on things and tearing if you slip, imagine branch or sharp rock protrusion going right thru the mesh, thru your tent and or your new down bag, now that would make for a really annoying time.  Imagine if you slipped during a water crossing, wet everything. I have a spectra pack and I had it on the other day (empty)to go pick up a tent in Seattle.  It's a 4500+/- cui and weighs 2.5 lbs.  It's so light that I kept forgetting that I had it on until I sat down.  Really it's that light.  Like any other material I would guess that as time dyneema and spectra goes on it will get cheaper and cheaper, but even if it does not it still seems to me from all accounts and reports that I have read to be the current ultimate pack material.  It's for the most part puncture proof and rodent proof and so very light.  If I were to by a new pack and had all the money I wanted to spend on it, it would be a custom pack made of dyneema and spectra.  At least at this point in my material and backpack knowledge those are the materials I would use.  The mesh bag backpack may have some applications as a summiting bag for light loads where there is little chances of encountering branches and water.  IMHO of cource 

I’d like a tent that has a waterproof dyneema floor and partial sides maybe 21 inches up the sides from the floor, with a waterproof spectra fly, properly vented of course.

6:25 p.m. on April 3, 2012 (EDT)
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I am sure as time goes on there will be products that that hit the market that will blow Spectra, Dyneema, Cuben, etc out of the water in regards to strength, abrasion resistance, and so on and so forth.

Make a pack out of this stuff:

http://www.jhrgllc.com/fabricthread.html

1000lb tear strength/inch.

Gotta love innovation. ;)

7:04 p.m. on April 3, 2012 (EDT)
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Rick-Pittsburgh said:

I am sure as time goes on there will be products that that hit the market that will blow Spectra, Dyneema, Cuben, etc out of the water in regards to strength, abrasion resistance, and so on and so forth.

Make a pack out of this stuff:

http://www.jhrgllc.com/fabricthread.html

1000lb tear strength/inch.

Gotta love innovation. ;)

Yep this seems to maybe be the stuff you would want to use if you were going to experiment with a mesh backpack. The mesh material in the link seems to be a cousin of the spectra/dyneema fabrics, 100 % UHMW-PE woven fabric with EVA film coating. Now I can't say by any means that I know much about these materials other than I do a lot of reading and I have one spectra pack myself but if you can just get a little of this material and get a old backpack for cheap or free, not like there is not a ton of those out there, you can cut  the major panels out leaving enough structure to hold the thing together and have the mesh sewn in or at least glued in for a few tests.........................heck who know’s, you could be on to something...........

I think it will be a while before you find a fabric that surpasses Spectra for it's intended purpose.

10:29 p.m. on April 3, 2012 (EDT)
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How about a scuba-gear bag ?

I have one, that is shaped roughly like a pair of flippers.   In-fact, that is what they are intended to do -- hold wet flippers as they drip-dry.    Sturdy, but not heavy construction, with mesh panels around the bottom 1/3 of the bag.   The bag has shoulder straps, and is frameless.   Has a grab-loop at the top.   Side pockets.

Obviously, I use the bag for hauling flippers, face-mask and snorkle.   It has daisy-chain loops, to which I have afixed several carabiners.   I hang wet camp-towels, wet sandals (or flip-flops), swim-trunks,  or whatever else is dripping wet ... on the outside of the bag, from these carabiners.   Wet flippers go inside the bag.

Is there a dive shop in your area?   If so, take a gander.   Not expensive either.   These bags can also be used as great gym bags, slung over the shoulder(s).

                         

                             ~ r2 ~

                         frugal dude

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