Guy Line for tents....

8:09 p.m. on August 24, 2012 (EDT)
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Do you keep your guy line cords attached to your tent when packed/stored or remove?

What cord do you use?

I've been using regular 7 strand paracord and keeping them attached.

8:34 p.m. on August 24, 2012 (EDT)
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I keep them on; maybe wrapping them up before I store the shelter.

Left the stock cordage on my Hillebergs; on my ID sil-wing, I use this guy's stuff: http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_from=&_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ssn=mlhwilderness&rt=nc

I use their 2.2mm dacron line, with a 200# break strength. An ounce for 50 feet.

My current cordage list (which you can feel free to copy/add to if you like):

550 cord, milspec, type III, 3.1mm, 550# test: 3.55oz per 50’

Flat braid Dacron cord (masons line), 1.8mm, 130# test: 0.75oz per 50’

Round braid Dacron cord (MLH), 2.2mm, 200# test: 1.0oz per 50’

Gossamer Gear EZC-2 Spectra core cord, 2mm: 1.5oz per 50’

Gossamer Gear, AntiGravity Gear pure Spectra 725 cord, 725# test: 1.2oz per 50’

BPL AirCore Nano pure Spectra cord, 1mm, 200# test: 0.5oz per 50’

BPL AirCore Pro pure Spectra cord, 1.7mm, 560# test: 0.9oz per 50’

MLD LiteLine Spectra core cord, 1.5mm, 400# test: 0.875oz per 50’

Kelty Triptease Spectra core cord, 3mm, 188# test: 1.0oz per 50’

Z-Packs Z-Line Spectra core cord, 1.25mm, 200# test: 0.55oz per 50’

Z-Packs Z-Line Spectra core cord, 1.5mm, 200# test: 0.88oz per 50’

Ultralightdesigns.com Spectra core cord, 1.5mm, 170# test: 0.85oz per 50’

Hilleberg Spectra core cord, 2mm, 200# test: 1.09oz per 50’

Hilleberg Spectra core cord, 3mm, 300# test: 1.52oz per 50’

Zing-It Spectra core cord, 1.75mm, 400# test: .96oz per 50’

Zing-It Spectra core cord, 2.22mm, 580# test: 1.28oz per 50’

Fling-It pure Spectra cord, 1.75mm, 450# test: ?

Fling-It pure Spectra cord, 2.22mm, 650# test: ?

8:48 p.m. on August 24, 2012 (EDT)
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I not only leave them on my tents but I also guy my my tents out everytime I set them up. 

Weather can change quickly from good to bad and I really don't feel like climbing out of my bag in the middle of the night(especially in winter or in the rain) to guy the tent out when Mother Nature decides to go on a tirade.

It is much easier to just guy the tent out when I set it up. 

As far as line goes. I like Spectra(3mm.)

Spectra is interwoven so ya won't run into a problem with the outer sheath slipping on the inner core fibers like ya would with other types of cordage.

9:41 p.m. on August 24, 2012 (EDT)
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Rick-Pittsburgh said:

I not only leave them on my tents but I also guy my my tents out everytime I set them up. 

Weather can change quickly from good to bad and I really don't feel like climbing out of my bag in the middle of the night(especially in winter or in the rain) to guy the tent out when Mother Nature decides to go on a tirade.

It is much easier to just guy the tent out when I set it up. 

As far as line goes. I like Spectra(3mm.)

Spectra is interwoven so ya won't run into a problem with the outer sheath slipping on the inner core fibers like ya would with other types of cordage.

 Same here. I always set up my guy lines no matter what the weather conditions. The little extra time it takes to do it while setting up is well worth it.

I'm also curious if the cord has any effect on the tents coating/materials when packed (pressing, rubbing, etc).

9:44 p.m. on August 24, 2012 (EDT)
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I wouldn't think so. Spectra is pretty "slick" stuff. Then again so is the Kerlon on a Hille.

I don't think it would cause ya any problems.

10:09 p.m. on August 24, 2012 (EDT)
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Rick-Pittsburgh said:

I not only leave them on my tents but I also guy my my tents out everytime I set them up.

 Doesn't everyone?

Don't like Paracord, it's too stretchy. The reflective cord that came on the Kayak I just bought has convinced me I want it for my tent. Probably going to get the Kelty Triptease.

I usually take the cord off and stow it separately. I'm just anal that way, doubt it matters.

10:33 p.m. on August 24, 2012 (EDT)
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I have the reflective cord on my BA Spur. Great stuff at night. Not so great during the day...

It is black.

Not quite sure why but never really cared enough to change them. They work so that is what matters to me.

10:47 p.m. on August 24, 2012 (EDT)
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I replaced the stock cord on my Marmot EOS 1P and Kelty Teton with the reflective cord that I got at a local store.  It's orange, so it has high visibility day and night.  I really need that because I often camp with young scouts who have a knack for finding guy lines the hard way.

10:59 p.m. on August 24, 2012 (EDT)
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JerseyWreckDiver said:

 Doesn't everyone?..

..Don't like Paracord, it's too stretchy...

I  guy out my tent only when necessary, as my fellow camp mates have a knack for tripping over lines.

I use paracord because it stretches, taking up some of the force that otherwise would be transferred to the tent, raising the potential for damage under high wind conditions.

Ed

11:48 p.m. on August 24, 2012 (EDT)
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whomeworry said:

I use paracord because it stretches, taking up some of the force that otherwise would be transferred to the tent, raising the potential for damage under high wind conditions.

Ed

Correct me if I am Ed wrong but wouldn't this actually put more stress on the tent being the slack from the lines would give the shelter the ability to move in the wind and when the the lines reach the point that they are fully stretched the sudden "halt" in movement would be more stressful on the shelter than having the guylines taut in the first place?

I would think that the sudden/intermittent resistance would be harder on stitching than constant resistance. 

The jerking effect would kind of worry me...

You know that sudden slap of the lines becoming taut when the tent is moving which would transfer the shockwave to the tent(stitching.). 

Most companies I know advise that the lines be taut and I would think that this would be one of the primary reasons for that. 

That is one of the reasons I like my Soulo so much. The stress on the guylines is actually transferred from the tent itself and onto the poles. 

Feb-2012-LHHT-010B.jpg

2:41 a.m. on August 25, 2012 (EDT)
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Rick-Pittsburgh said:

whomeworry said:

I use paracord because it stretches, taking up some of the force that otherwise would be transferred to the tent, raising the potential for damage under high wind conditions.

Ed

Correct me if I am Ed wrong but wouldn't this actually put more stress on the tent being the slack from the lines would give the shelter the ability to move in the wind and when the the lines reach the point that they are fully stretched the sudden "halt" in movement would be more stressful on the shelter than having the guylines taut in the first place?

I would think that the sudden/intermittent resistance would be harder on stitching than constant resistance. 

The jerking effect would kind of worry me...

You know that sudden slap of the lines becoming taut when the tent is moving which would transfer the shockwave to the tent(stitching.). 

Most companies I know advise that the lines be taut and I would think that this would be one of the primary reasons for that. 

That is one of the reasons I like my Soulo so much. The stress on the guylines is actually transferred from the tent itself and onto the poles. 

Feb-2012-LHHT-010B.jpg

  Exactly. Spend enough time by the ocean around boats and you learn fast that slack means damage from thrashing.

Beyond that, I just find taut line hitches work better with static line. For me at least.

I like that tent set up Rick.

2:44 a.m. on August 25, 2012 (EDT)
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Rick-Pittsburgh said:

Correct me if I am Ed wrong but wouldn't this actually put more stress on the tent being the slack from the lines would give the shelter the ability to move in the wind and when the the lines reach the point that they are fully stretched the sudden "halt" in movement would be more stressful on the shelter than having the guylines taut in the first place?

I would think that the sudden/intermittent resistance would be harder on stitching than constant resistance. 

The jerking effect would kind of worry me...

You know that sudden slap of the lines becoming taut when the tent is moving which would transfer the shockwave to the tent(stitching.). 

Most companies I know advise that the lines be taut and I would think that this would be one of the primary reasons for that. 

That is one of the reasons I like my Soulo so much. The stress on the guylines is actually transferred from the tent itself and onto the poles.

If things acted the way you describe, you might be right.  But your description doesn’t fit actual circumstances. 

Let’s first address the notion of a sudden halt in guy line stretching.  Paracord does not suddenly stop stretching.  Instead its action is similar to monofilament fish line, a climbing rope, or even a coil spring under tension; it will continue to stretch until it reaches a breaking point, or until the forces transferred to the tent exceed whatever component of the tent first reaches its failure point.  And it doesn’t matter if you tether your tent with wire or bungee cord, once the forces transferred through the attachment point with the tent reaches this failure threshold, the tent will fail.  A stretchy guy line, however, will draw out the impulse forces of a wind gust over a longer time frame, decreasing the shock load forces.  I am not suggesting you use bungy cord, however, only that the guy lines have just a bit of stretch in them.  Mind you, the actual amount paracord stretches is rather limited under most circumstances.  If you should find yourself in a wind so strong that it stretches and lengthens paracord, I strongly advise you collapse your tent and consider holing up in a snow cave.

Secondly I did not say my guy lines are strung slack; they are taut, but only to a point.  Anyone so determined can draw a guy line so taut that they stretch the tent such that daylight can be seen through the tent panel seam stitch holes.  This obviously is not desirable.  The idea is to place some static tension on the guy lines so they cannot suddenly slap taut, and cause the condition you describe.

A non-stretching guy line does not eliminate sudden/intermittent resistance (aka impulse moments of force); quite the opposite a nonabsorbent material is more efficient at transferring forces, particularly impulse moments, than a stretchy material.  If this were not the case the axles on cars would be bolted directly to the chassis instead of utilizing the flexible connection of a spring.

As for what part of the tent the guy line is attached to depends on the line’s purpose.  In this context the lines are usually affixed to a pole.  It is easier to engineer a sturdy guy line lash point from a tent pole than a tab somehow attached to the fabric tent wall panel.  Never the less some of the most hardcore tents do have wind guy line lash tabs mounted directly on the tent walls (we're talking tents that will put your Hille to shame!).  But not all guy lines are for wind stability.  Some tents use guy lines to hold the rain fly off the inner tent wall, or pull tent walls outward to create more interior volume.  While one can argue this is an inferior solution, compared to designing a tent where the outer and inner walls stay put on their own accord, the point is guy lines designed for this purpose should definitely be stretchy and responsive to the wind, so they do not place undue stress on tent fly or inner wall.

Ed

9:16 a.m. on August 25, 2012 (EDT)
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Thanks for the clarification Ed. Much appreciated.

These tents you mention have sparked my curiousity. Any brands/models come to mind?

I am inteerested in any tent that can put a Hille to "shame."

Gotta be one heck of a tent.

10:45 a.m. on August 26, 2012 (EDT)
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Does anyone use or have tried he MSR Cam Ring cord Tensioners? They seam a little gimmicky and pricey ($10 for four or $20 with 50 ft of cord). Looks like they would do they same thing as the regular, flat, plastic ones that are much cheaper. 

http://www.trailspace.com/gear/msr/ultralight-utility-cord-kit/

4:44 p.m. on August 26, 2012 (EDT)
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Nite Ize Figure 9 Tent Line Kit

 

I don't use the clips only the line and leave it attached (coiled) in place on the tent's fly.

8:52 p.m. on August 26, 2012 (EDT)
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I leave my triptease attached, don't always guy out though. only when its windy rainy. I trip over the stupid things in the dark!

8:49 p.m. on August 28, 2012 (EDT)
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I second the nite ize figure 9s. I use somebodies shock cord on them, dont remember who made it but its orange and black with something reflective so you can see it day or night. Having the nines on my tarp I can change the tension in the rain and only get my hand wet.

2:14 a.m. on August 29, 2012 (EDT)
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Rick-Pittsburgh said:

..I am inteerested in any tent that can put a Hille to "shame."

Gotta be one heck of a tent.

These tents are what comes to mind.  A couple of other brands are also in this category.  Virtual bomb shelters, but they are a bit too heavy to use for back packing.  I was just messing with you about the Hillies.  Hilleberg tents are fine runner ups, and only a fraction of the weight.

Ed

 

10:34 a.m. on August 29, 2012 (EDT)
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Here is one for ya Ed:

http://www.alaskatent.com/oven/aoarkvest.html

It's only around $2300... :p

Then there is this:

http://wyominglostandfound.com/dyneema.html

I am going to start a new thread(here)on this so we don't take away from this thread and steer it too far off track. 

I think it will make for a fun discussion.

Apologies to the op. 

December 22, 2014
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