water purifiers

I want to get a water purifier.and was looking at the First Need Deluxe,which claims to filter viruses.I also was looking at some of the Katadyn models ,Both claim to filter down to one micron.The Katadyn has no claims of filtering viruses.I was wondering if the claim by First Need is true or not ,and if the Katadyn also can remove Viruses

The First Need manufacturer at http://www.generalecology.com/portablesystem.htm
claims "all General Ecology Water Purifiers are certified to meet EPA Microbiological Purification Standard against cysts, bacteria AND virus."
My wife and I have used this filter on our backpacking trips in Vermont since 2003. We have filtered from some iffy sources such as a stagnant beaver pond and have never had a problem. We can filter and then drink immediately. The filter and cartridge weigh a little over a pound but since my wife has allergies and we both have experienced immune system problems we feel it's worth the weight to be able to remove both bacteria and viruses (even though viruses are supposed to be less of a threat in North America).
I would advise you to keep the pre-filter membrane as clean as possible since pumping will be difficult if it gets too dirty. I keep a small tooth brush handy and it does the job just fine. Also the replaceable cartridge is rated for 125 gallons but we replace it every year at the start of the summer hiking season. You can also test the filter before you go out on the trail with the blue dye that is provided. A good working filter/cartridge will remove all the blue color from the water.

First Need filters use a carbon element (which you can add to the Katadyn) to deal with viruses. Katadyn tends to be a bit more conservative in their claims. You can take care of viruses with any of the filters by use of a chemical purifier following the pumping operation. Some manufacturers incorporate an iodine resin element at the end of the filter chain to take care of the viruses (Katadyn does this with their filter bottle, for example).

Personally, I have found the First Need filters to be harder to use in the field than the Katadyn, MSR, or Sweetwater (the ones I have personal field experience with). I will repeat the comment that has been made in Trailspace before and most outdoor medicine publications, though - personal hygiene is more important even than the drinking water. Always clean your hands before handling any food, whether preparation or holding the sandwich or candy to put in your mouth. Most backcountry illness, it seems, comes from contamination of the food, with much less from the drinking water (that is not to say ignore precautions with the water). Since you won't have a convenient wash basin with soap, at least use an alcohol-based "waterless hand sanitizers" like Purelle, Pure Touch, or one of the generic imitation lotions, and frequently clean yourself with babywipes.

I'll amen the post that includes advice to use hand purifiers. Have used several filters over the yrs and my fav is SweetWater. Not the smallest but just 1 lb, is reliable & easy to clean, pumps fast and lucky for me is darn near foolproof.

"And we're walking..."

I had the Katadyn bottle purifier. . .great product. . .lightweight and reliable, but hard on the hands when larger amounts of water are needed or it's cold. I upgraded to the Katadyn Vario. . .I'm a big fan and it's never let me down. . .filters water super fast. My friend Doug has the First Need and it's never failed. My other backpacking partner, Kirk, has an MSR filter and it's been great too. It's hard to go wrong really. Take the time to research the product, so you get what you want. . .or need. Follow the product directions and don't cross contaminate your hoses.
Todd

Has anyone tried the Camelbak Filter and pump? I just got it and it pumps super fast. I have 2 set ups. The first is a Camelbak pump and filter with a MSR SweetWater Siltstopper, the Camelbak filter then as an added protection a Sawyer filter and finally a Katadyn charcoal filter just before the outlet. This allows me a good filtering system with a built in backup filter if the Camelbak filter goes bad. I carry extra Siltstopper filters and extra charcoal.
BUT I always carry iodine tablets as a back up and if conditions permit I will boil water first. I saw many a person go down because of bad water. Simple hygiene clean hands, clean body parts makes the outdoors more fun. I know that there are GRAM WEENIES out there who will say that I am crazy to carry that much weight, but with all the hidden toxic sites in the north east I trust no well let alone ground water. To all the ultra light people out there, I wish I had your trust in nature and you ability to feel secure with minimal weight. I cut down weight in other areas, such as cookware - 2 qt ultra light pot, lexan cup, plate, Spork, and an ultra light. Pot/pan.
But I won’t cut back on my canister stove or candle lantern.
Just remember it is easier having an inconvinence then it is to cure a problem.
Just as a quick note the second setup is a MiniWorks EX with a Sawyer filter after the filter just before the outlet port.
I apologize if I have offended anyone that was not my intention. I believe that shared knowledge and prior planning and preparedness is the key to success.
Please comment to vlabella@aol.com. Thanks.

Personaly, I use an MSR MIOX purifier pen, it essentualy creates chlorine bleach using salt, water and a little electricty. The only problems with it is over extended use your going to want spare batteries and the taste. The taste however can be countered by adding a water soluble vitamin C tablet, or drops to the water after the chlorine has done it's job (about 4 hours). The BIG plusses on it are the size, weight and it's ability to kill just about anything in the water after 4 hours, though most things are dead within 30 minutes.

Weight is easily the main concern in selecting a filter, in my view. Six years ago, I purchased a PUR filter that weighs a rather nasty eleven ounces. I mostly try to leave it at home, though it is welcome on certain trips.

There is interesting debate about this topic elsewhere, in which, in terms of legitimate citations of factual testing data, those who suggest that filters are over-used, seem to have the edge by a wide margin.

Lots of people use the simple rationale that "I'd rather not get sick" which is quite easy to grasp. Yet it does appear, that a lack of hand washing, rather than filtration, is a more relevant factor in whether somebody gets an unfortunate illness on a given trip. Beware, especially, of companions with young children, or those who work in day care.

Filters clearly have their place. For example, I camped on a very lovely site, downstream from a small sewage treatment plant, and the PUR functioned admirably, though water still tasted awful.

In Mexico, I carried no filter, and drank straight from a spring at 15,000 feet, but Latin America would be among most obvious places to rely on filters.

I don't doubt for a moment the worst-case scenarios that are possible from water-borne disease, yet in my narrow, personal experience, I've drank water from hundreds of sources that lots of people would prefer to filter, and yet as a result, I've never become significantly ill. Maybe I've got a strong stomach, though this is doubtful.
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I have one of these hang Katadyn models
Junk !! filter is so fine cannot get water thru it.
Have tried filtering water first thru a coffee filter the the Katadyn bag
Junk JUnk

Walmart sells a picher filter we use now does fine.

I'm planning a canoe trip this summer to the boundary waters canoe area wilderness with one other dad and three kids. I had thought of bringing a Katadyn Base Camp filter. http://www.trailspace.com/gear/katadyn/base-camp/

Anybody use one? I've used a pump before (First Need) and found it to be too much work. I'd prefer not to use chemical tablets to treat the water as the kids won't like the taste.

My thoughts are to fill up the filter in camp, let it hang from a tree, then tend to other camp chores while water is filtered. Even if the flow rate is half the claimed speed we should have sufficient drinking water in a 20 minutes. Cooking water will be boiled, not filtered.

The water in the boundary waters is minimal risk, I'm just looking for an easy means to provide drinking water to the rest of the group. If I were by myself I'd use chemical tablets or just drink right out of the lake.

Alan,
I think butchfig8 is referring to the Katadyn Basecamp filter. Some people have found it works well (and a couple of others that are similar). I know several river guides who use them regularly.

Since you only have 5 people, one of the regular pump filters for backpackers, perhaps the larger sizes, should be sufficient. An alternative is the PuR system that I am in the process of testing, called the PuR Clean Drinking Water Kit. This is a system that is based on the approach used by municipal water supply systems and was originally developed for use in 3rd World countries. PuR is a division of Proctor and Gamble, and used to make backpacking pump filters (they sold that business to Katadyn a few years ago). Basically, you fill a 10 liter (2.5 gallon) container with the water to be purified, add the chemical, stir and let sit for a few minutes. A floculli forms (looks like cotton) that collects the bacteria, viruses, protozoa, and a number of industrial contaminants, then settles to the bottom. You decant the cleaned water into a 2nd container (part of the full kit) and let it sit for another 10 minutes (total time is about the same as chlorine dioxide tablets), and you get water that meets (it says here) the purity standards of all government agencies around the world. Tastes ok and looks clean (and I'm still alive).

The problem with it is that the packets are for 2.5 gallons, and you can't use it for smaller amounts. But for your 5 people, that's 2 liters each (2 Nalgene bottles worth). So it would be the right amount. It's certainly easy to use, and since the containers are folding it is compact enough for a canoe trip (they are made by Reliance, who make the 2.5 gallon folding jugs many of us have bought over the years in EMS and REI).

However, I think I would just use my regular Katadyn Hiker Pro pump, along with the boiling you said you will do for the cooking water.

Bill, Interesting product you describe. At this point I'll have to buy something as the only filter I have is the old first need pump and I've never liked it much. Pumping enough water through the first need for 5 people is not a good option.

The base camp filter idea is simple and easy and less expensive than a pump filter which is it's appeal. I'll have to evaluate whether the pump is worth the extra money. I may just take my REI dividend and get a Katadyn pocket filter and call it a day.