Going to the Dark Side...my first GPS Unit

Thanks to a bundle of REI gift cards for Christmas from Grandma (yep, she's still kickin at 85) Mom, my brothers, and my in laws. I have the funds to purchase my first GPS unit. You may recall an impulse purchase way back on Black Friday last year. I got what I thought was an amazing deal on a Garmen eTrex. Well, I bought it then came home and did my research and realized how limited it was. It had no SD card etc. the list of things it did not have was pretty long. So it was returned and the cash from that and the gift cards is going to purchase a new one.

I 90% certain I am going to get the Garmin GPSMap 60SCx. I have read the reviews and they are all pretty good. I always like to check in with the crew though for some "one on one" about these things.

Bill, I know you are a GPS genius. As a matter of fact, I think that is what you spent a portion of your career working on.

I have heard and read some grumbling about Garmins software policies. One unit, one copy of software, one license agreement... meaning I can't have the software on my laptop and my desktop unless I buy another software license. Is this true?

Any recommended software, topo maps etc would be greatly appreciated. I plan on paying for a GPS class along with the purchase to make sure I am able to use as much of this things capabilities as possible.

Please let me know what you think about this unit. It is just a bit above my comfort zone on price ($349) but I think a few extra bucks to get the features this unit offers is worth it.

Hay since we are talking about GPS units I want to get one before the spring season and I was looking at the Magellan Triton 500. Is this a good unit or would you guys recomend something different.

Mike, I have been looking for about 4 months now. What I have read on the Magellan is that it is a great unit...if you can figure out how to use it. User support and the "easy" step by step instruction manual may as well have been written in Urdu. I have read a number of negative reviews.

BigSmoke, I see I have herd alot of good things like there are durable & versatile but I have never talked to anyone that owned one. But no one ever said that it is hard to learn the operation of the unit thank you for the input I will have to look into it further before I go and buy one.

Magellan Reviews

I have a Garmin GPSMap60csx.It works fantastic,not that you should do away with your map and compass, but I do love it.It is really cool how yo can save your hiking tracks and then if you like veiwthem on google earth.

I only use one PC with mine so I am not sure about the policies. I never have tried to load it on another PC.

I have the city navagator an US Topo 2008 softeware for mine. Yhis does require two different 2GB micro SD cards as the unit does not recognize or use anything over 2GB.

As far as the money goes, spend the little extra... it's worth it.

I too have been looking at GPS units. My current option is the Garmin Foretrex 101. It is small, light, great battery life, and easy to use. Downside is that it does not have a map, but I like to carry a map and just use this for tracking way points. This is the best unit I have found to date for what I am looking for... Anyone own this model?

Couple of comments -

A. The Garmin Foretrex and Forerunner series of wrist GPSRs are intended as training instruments and not for navigation. I have a Forerunner 305, which I use for training hikes and bike rides. I have figured out a way of hacking it for navigation, but it is really unsatisfactory for that, even when following a pre-loaded route. The Suunto X10 and their other GPS-equipped golf and marine racing "wrist computers" have the same deficiency - good for the sport and reasonable for downloading your track to the computer after the outing, but not for navigation. Even the basic "yellow" eTrex or Magellan's basic eXplorist 100 are better for navigation than the wrist GPSRs. The Foretrex is awfully huge on your wrist, as well - I have seen people catch them on bushes and even their pack straps when putting the pack on or off.

B. I would not get any of Garmin's "S" series, such as the 60CSx. The "S" stands for "sensor", which means they have a flux-gate compass and a barometric altimeter. The problems are (1) these are battery eaters (that is, much shorter battery life); (2) the compass requires frequent recalibration, and gets decalibrated by changing batteries, any radio frequency interference, such as using a cell phone, ham radio handheld or FRS/GMRS, or even just the electronic ignition system of a number of cars and trucks; (3) in the units with the barometric altimeter, the display shows only the barometric altitude, which means you need to recalibrate it frequently, either at known altitude points (use your map!), the known barometer setting (available when you are close to an airport and have a radio that has aircraft bands or can phone the airport's ATIS), or tell the GPSR to calibrate on the current GPS-derived altitude (you can't choose to show the GPS-derived altitude all the time). Though it won't affect most people, the barometric altitude has a basic problem in high latitudes that stems from the altitude/air pressure profile being different from that profile at lower latitudes - for example, in Antarctica, my 60CSx insisted that High Camp on Vinson (12,000 ft physical altitude) was at 13,500, no matter how I tried to recalibrate the unit.

Another problem with Garmin's units is that they will not work properly with lithium AA batteries. Some of the older ones said they did in the manual, but Garmin changed their minds. My 60CSx shuts off immediately with the lithiums when you try to turn it on (the voltage of lithium AAs is slightly higher than alkalines or NiMH). This is a problem for people like me who go out in cold weather, where lithium AAs work much better than alkalines.

C. There is a way to get an authorization to use the Garmin software on a desktop and a laptop, with the restriction that only one can be used at a time. Talk to Garmin tech support about this (their tech support people can be pretty hard to deal with, and like many tech support departments, can be surprisingly ignorant of their own product at times).

D. Magellan has had a number of problems with the Triton series. However, their rep at the OR Winter Show last week told me that the latest software/firmware release has resolved all the problems. The Triton is a great design, and the capability of loading National Geographic Topo! maps as well as their proprietary maps is an excellent feature. For a physically smaller unit, you might consider the eXplorist series. The 500 has a lot of capability and features in grey shades, with the 600 having the same in color. I use the 500 a lot, though I would prefer that it have AA batteries as an alternative to the rechargeable lithium, instead of AAA.

E. Two alternatives to look at are the Delorme PN-40 and the new series from Lowrance. Lowrance is a long-time player in the GPSR world, but is just getting back into the handheld market. They have great reputation and their new units that they had at the OR Show look very interesting, with good maps. Delorme is a long-time player in the map world, with their Street Atlas being by far the best computerized street maps on the market. Their TopoUSA is quite good, though not as good as NatGeo's Topo!. Both can be loaded onto the PN-40. The predecessor PN-20 (which I have) is terribly slow if you load lots of maps into it, but the PN-40 has overcome the speed and capacity limitations (it takes the high capacity memory cards). You can load not only both street and topo maps (the topos are from TopoUSA, including the 1:24,000 series, and street from Street Atlas), but also satellite and aerial photos. These make a lot of navigation really easy (imagine following the animal trails when heading cross-country, since they are easy to see on the aerial photos).

Hey Bill,

Thanks for the very detailed input...

I was looking at the Delorme Earthmate PN-40. It is alot more money, but has a lot of nicer more advanced features. How is it in the cold? Most of the articles I have read indicate that it does well, but you would probably know better than most.

Thanks Bill! I was looking into getting the Foretrex, but after reading this I think I'll hold off for something more based on navigation.

gearjunky -

hmmm, with that name, why are you worried about cost? You need a half-dozen different models, as a minimum.

I do not have a PN-40 myself, though I do have the predecessor the PN-20. The PN-40 is no more expensive than the Garmins, Magellans, and Lowrances models with the same features. I suspect you don't really want the minimum features anyway. As far as cold is concerned, the PN-40 is like any other battery-powered device - shorter battery life, the LCD screen fades, etc. But that's at reall low temperatures, 15-20F and lower. The people I know who have the PN-40 are very enthused, a number retiring their Garmins and Magellans. Plus, Delorme makes the best electronic street maps of the US available and the second-best electronic topographic map package, both of which can be loaded onto the PN-40. Delorme is very responsive for support (unlike Garmin and Magellan).

mike068 said:

Hay since we are talking about GPS units I want to get one before the spring season and I was looking at the Magellan Triton 500. Is this a good unit or would you guys recomend something different.

I would recommend against the Magellan Triton 500. I wrote the review on it. See the review for details. I returned it, but the Magellan stiffed me for the $100 software cost even though it could only be used on that S/N unit. They claimed that what I was buying was a license, not the software and that was not refundable.

I purchased a Delorme PN40. It came with all of the topo maps that I needed for the whole US and for about $30/yr I can download all of the maps, sat images, and areal photos I want. I don't expect to ever have to purchase any more software beyond the yearly subscription. Also, even though it has 8gig memory built in, I also plugged in a 32gig SD card. Honestly, I don't sell these, I just am very pleased with mine, especially after the bad experience I had with the Magellan.

All the information on this thread about GPS units is unfortunately discussed with not much of a hint of criticism, but what I'm really interested in is your journey to the dark side. I'm a hypocrite as I take a little radio and a digital camera, but what's wrong with a simple topo map? Don't we leave home to get away from gadgets?

Tipi Walter,

Some of these guys will probably chuckle since I am using a Garmin eTrex Venture HC, but a hand held GPS is a handy tool. Mine will tell me how far and fast I have skied or run for example. The trip computer and the stopwatch function alone make it a useful training aid for running, kayaking, cycling, skiing, etc. If I am doing anything other than skiing the local trails I still carry a map.

With regard to GPS. They cost a lot of money. They can be fun. Just take care to secure the item when traveling. I lost my Garmin GPS 60CSX while on a snowshoe hike.

The screw holding the unit to the belt clip unscrewed itself from the belt clip. The unit fell into the snow never to be seen again. At the time a friend was hiking behind me and did not see a thing. I know within a 2 km distance where this unit is, although when we retraced our steps, we could not find any sign of the unit. This unit was less than a year old.

So if you want to keep your GPS, the belt clip works, just secure the lanyard to your belt or pack as well. I guess its back to the old unit for me now.

I bought the bundle from REI you mentioned havent had the chance to play with it rather than at home. I am glad the Topo software came with it because the base map showed me in the middle of the river 4 blocks away.

Hay

Well I finaly broke down and went and bought a GPS I got a Magellan Triton 500 (yea I know they dont have the best reviews in some places) but after all my research and comparison thats what it came down to so..... Now i'm not an idiot and on the same note i'm not a genius ether but I have seemed to figure it out just fine so far. I am planning a 4 day trip in the next two weeks so we will see how it goes.

Tipi Walter said:

....t what's wrong with a simple topo map? Don't we leave home to get away from gadgets?

Tipi,

A GPSR is something to use as an enhancement to your map and compass, not a replacement and not as a primary tool. It only tells you where you are (very accurately) and which way to a location you have entered into its memory. It does not tell you the route to take, although if you have previously recorded a path (or downloaded it from someone who has), it can do a reasonably good job of directing you. Used with an understanding of its strengths and all too real weaknesses, a GPSR can be a great aid to navigation in certain circumstances. Used without those limitations, it is like any other device (or like any map) - it can be deadly and you can end up seriously maimed or dead.

Your point is well taken - used blindly, GPSRs have gotten people into serious trouble. Used intelligently, a good map will get you to where you want to go and return safely. A compass helps, too, but again is an aid to navigation that must be used with an understanding of its strengths and weaknesses.

Bill & Tips

I agree with Bill on his last comment (as well as many others too i'm sure) I am a very strong map and compass user but the GPS is a nice addition to have. It make night nav eraser (which I do a lot of) and Geocaching is kind of fun too. But it is basically just another tool to make things eraser for us in the field.

But we all need to remember blind nav can be deadly so learn how to read a map & compass as well (if you don't already know how too)

Bill

Thanks for the advice on the GPS units back in January it did help me decide on units.

I have to carry a Spot anyway, so i guess for training and the like i could just pay the 50$ a year subscrition and leave it in track mode.

I carry a GPS sometimes if i expect zero visibility, but all i need is the UTM map coordinates, i couldn't care less about integrated colour maps and the like (what's the point of the color map if there is zero visibility?). Even in a blizzard, it's easier to take a compass bearing and follow it than try to look at you GPS and keep it warm at the same time, or swap batteries every 15 min. because they freeze.

Bill,

thanks for the very solid info, as usual.

I'm with Tipi and Franc. Give me a $15 compass and a waterproof map and I'm good to go.

My instructor really drilled anti-GPS into me when I was training for my pilot's license, and it stuck.

Hay I dont realy need one but it is nice to have. and I want to do some geocaching as well. I have very strong map & coumpass skills and I still whill carry my map & coumpass if for nothing elts the batters wont go dead in them.

east_stingray said:

...My instructor really drilled anti-GPS into me when I was training for my pilot's license, and it stuck.

Hmmm, that means you aren't instrument-rated. A lot of small airports these days have only GPS approaches (most of which had no approaches at all when I got licensed). GPS, like your ILS, glide slope, ADF, marker beacon, DME, VOR, A-N range, etc etc,is a useful tool, used properly. But like land navigation, learning the basics is the most important thing. Sometimes when everything goes south and you are inside a fuzzy grey ball with lots of bumps and flashy things around and all the electronic widgets have turned belly up, needle, ball, and airspeed with get you through (been there, done that, wrote it up and published it in AOPA Pilot's Never Again column back about 1977). Hmm, bet you don't even know what an A-N Range is.

I took the written instrument test and had started training, but the MCAT and med school got in the way.

I wasn't talking about the high-end GPS systems used for an approach. I think he had seen too many students get in trouble because the didn't know how to use the paper charts. He always told me that it was OK to use a GPS, but if I found myself not charting out my course and looking it over good like I should be, it meant I was too dependant.

I used to be an AOPA member, and I LOVED the never again column. I haven't kept my membership current since I don't have time to fly anymore. I missed my last biennial and my medical's up pretty soon... just don't have time to keep it all current while in medical school.

About things getting in the way of flying - when we moved back to California from Mississippi, we found that owning your own plane and owning California real estate (like a house to live in) are financially incompatible. I understand that planes like the one we used to own are currently selling for close to what our Palo Alto lot would sell for with not house on it - sure different from the situation when we were in the Deep South. But then avgas was only about 10% more than autogas back then, where last time I checked at Palo Alto Airport, it was several times the cost of autogas.

OK... after much research, consideration of the valuable input here and a very special wife... today for my birthday I received the Delorme PN-40. I will do a write-up in gear review after I have gotten to know and used the device for at least 6 months.