Mountain Tent Under 10 Lbs

I need to find a mountain tent under 10 Lbs good for backpacking and climbing on mountains (maybe expedition like but rarely) yet still good for recreational camping like Yosemite, it also needs to have good vestibule space, enough to cook in a blizzard and mesh storage flaps. :D Im thinking of getting the mountain 25 but don't know if it has enough ventilation

Hilleberg Tarra, Allak, or, my favourite, the Saivo, best "expedition" tent I have ever had or even seen. I had a NF VE whatever for years, it was a wet and not very comfortable tent in severe weather and it compared to a Saivo about like a Nissan Pathfinder compares to a Mercedes Gelindewagen.

That's an intense comparing...but I heard the Hillenburg isn't good in intense wind.. Can you confirm or not confirm? :D

The Hilleberg Saivo is often used at the South Pole and there is no region on the planet with more ferocious weather.

I have more confidence in my Saivo for really BAD storms, 50+mph. winds, 75-90MPH. gusts and 3-5" of driven rain overnight or 20" of heavy, wet snow and a sudden drop in temp. from 30*F to -20*F, than ANY other tent I have used. These are situations I HAVE experienced and while not with the Saivo, I know from what transpired it would do very well.....that is why I paid the substantial price for it and my Soulo.

Any overhang for storage? The Price isn't too bad for the "Mercedes of Tents" Pretty good design.

I really like my Nemo Moki because of the space. It's a full-blown 3 person winter tent with a big vestibule, 48" high and it weights 9.2lbs. In the summer you can leave the vestibule behind (7.5lbs for the tent) and carry a tarp instead. The side-doors are awesome too! But I guess with single-wall tents it's either love or hate...

I'm not sure how it compares to a Hilleberg in very high winds but it's been rock solid in 40mph winds with no extra guylines. I wonder how well it could handle a hurricane.( just joking!!!) :p

I had the mtn 25 and it does have plenty of ventilation, plenty of mesh storage areas, two doors, two vestibules, but I am not sure that it is under 10 lbs. I sold mine last spring to a guy up in Canada because my Golite Shangra-la 3 is all I ever need. It weights 2.15 lbs for the fly, 2.5 lbs for the nest (a bug netted top w/floor) and/or 1.6 lbs for just the floor. It has just one adjustable tent pole in the middle or you can use the loop on top to string the fly or nest to a limb above. Properly set up it sheds snow very well, it has two meshed vents on the top, comes in bamboo or forest green color. The floor and/or next attaches around the bottom edge with rings and clips. I bought stronger aluminum T-stakes, the tent clip loops are adjustable and have highly reflective strips which make it easy to find in the dark with a flashlight coming back after a long dayhike. It sleeps me and my gear with plenty of floor space and head room.

See the three parts below:

The Hilleberg Saivo is not merely "the Mercedes of tents", it is the Rolls-Royce of tents, but, while it has extensive useful space in it's twin vestibules, at each end, it may be slightly over 10 lbs. The quality of fabric is unsurpassed and the construction is superb, built the way the big name American tents were in the early '70s.

I had an original Chouinard Pryamid and also a Fjallraven Expedition Pyramid tent for many years, these function like the GoLite shown. While they are functional in most situations, they lack the living space-volumn of the Saivo and, especially, are not very good in heavy snowfalls....the Saivo is outstanding here, which is a major reason I bought mine.

I would suggest logging onto Hilleberg's site and checking them out yourself.

Hilleberg makes very good tents,if you can afford them.I have been in 60 to 70 mph winds,very exposed spot, in my older version of the Mountain 24 and did very well.Absolutely no problems.I do not consider the newer NF products as good as their older stuff before they went yuppie on us.But i have had very good experiances with the 24 and an older Oval Intention so not all of their products are bad.One last opinion is that i have been an automotive tech for over 40 years and can honestly say Mercedes products,as far as quality,leave a lot to be desired.Sadly this is true of many European cars,iam factory trained via Porsche and Audi,As for reliability i would purchase a Honda over either Mercedes or Rolls,worked for a specialty shop in Portland Oregon on rolls products for 10 years.I guess in a very long winded way iam saying everybodys journey is different and there are no absolutes.

Forgot to add that my older Mountain 24 without footprint is 7lbs 8oz.If you can find an older one it top condition you will be pleased.

I was merely using a well-known and commonly understood metaphor, not commenting on mechanical matters as I am not a "pro" where they are concerned. I do agree, tho', based on 45 years of driving 4x4s for a living in BC's harshest country, than Toyotas, especially, work like nothing else and are all I will own.

That aside, I strongly agree on the NF "Pole Sleeve Oval Intention", UNTIL you try to set one up in 50mph. winds ALONE when you are 70 air miles in from the Alaska Highway and it will be dark in 15 minutes.

The BIG deal about Hilles, is that they set up DRY from OUTSIDE by ONE guy and with zero hassle and that is why I am so impressed by them. Man, this makes me wish for the Sierra Designs, North Face and Early Winters tents of the early '70s and I just missed one NF on the Kifaru forum that you could stand in and had a "cook hole" in the floor.

So, John's suggestion on an older US-made NF or SD tent is a very sound one, BUT, check for coating deterioration before you buy and you will know by the unpleasant odour. Hilles. DO cost, but, I find deals on used ones quite often.

try the nemo moki three person or the tenshi for a two person

I would say land rover to be more precise..but the Tenshi and the Saivo look pretty good which one?

Dewey said:

I was merely using a well-known and commonly understood metaphor, not commenting on mechanical matters as I am not a "pro" where they are concerned. I do agree, tho', based on 45 years of driving 4x4s for a living in BC's harshest country, than Toyotas, especially, work like nothing else and are all I will own.

That aside, I strongly agree on the NF "Pole Sleeve Oval Intention", UNTIL you try to set one up in 50mph. winds ALONE when you are 70 air miles in from the Alaska Highway and it will be dark in 15 minutes.

The BIG deal about Hilles, is that they set up DRY from OUTSIDE by ONE guy and with zero hassle and that is why I am so impressed by them. Man, this makes me wish for the Sierra Designs, North Face and Early Winters tents of the early '70s and I just missed one NF on the Kifaru forum that you could stand in and had a "cook hole" in the floor.

So, John's suggestion on an older US-made NF or SD tent is a very sound one, BUT, check for coating deterioration before you buy and you will know by the unpleasant odour. Hilles. DO cost, but, I find deals on used ones quite often.

Dewey

You are very correct on the coating going bad point.This is the problem with the internet thing,dont know what youve got till it arrives.I still have one of the original "ring"oval intentions and can tell you it is much easier and faster to set up anytime.As for setting up a tent in 50 to 60 mph winds none are easy but some are easier.Alone in wind sucks.Abuddy had one of the Early winters hoop tents we used to use on climbs and it was about the easiest tent ever to set up,built like a Warmlite.

Maybe check out the Exped Vela I. I bought one because it had excellent wind resistance (There is a great German outdoor store that sets up huge fans and blows tents until they give up, and the Vela scored very well), and was light (1.5 Kg).

It's a 1/2 man tent, huge vestibule, very decent quality. I recently took it out in central Sweden along with a Hilleberg Staika, and I think it compares quite well at a fraction of the price. It was not free-standing like the Staika, but has just one pole compared to the 3 in the Staika, and almost half the weight. It's got a weird zipperless flysheet which takes some figuring out, but gives a lot of customisability.

The inner tent is removable (obviously) and without it it weights under a kilo. Two stakes are a minimum, but comes with a ton of extra pegs, guy points and dyneema guy lines so you can really tie it down tight if needed.

My first Gore-Tex tent was an Early Winters Light Dimension and it was HARD to get the little poles into the tiny pole receptors when your hands were frozen in cold weather...made me cuss like crazy! BUT, when that little tent was up and staked to the ground plus tied off to logs along the side and these covered with boulders, it was a hell of a rig and would handle some brutal weather.

I loved that tent and when I finally put it in the trash, it wa bleached almost white, the floor was worn so that it leaked and it was damm near as creaky as I am, it was a sad day and I wish EW were still making their wonderful tents as they did back then.

I have some Exped gear and like it, but, while they ARE good tents for the money and my buds who own a gear shop here sell lots of them, they are nowhere close to a Hilleberg in really harsh conditions.

I have experienced over 2 ft. of wet snow dropping in a few hours and then freezing for three days at -25*F with high winds. You NEED a tent that will easily handle this if you are using it as an "expedition" tent and the Hilles and my Integral Designs tents will.

The Nemos look good, but, I will never recommend something I have not used.

Live large, go Hilleberg and be comfortable!

abouttandoutt said:

That's an intense comparing...but I heard the Hillenburg isn't good in intense wind.. Can you confirm or not confirm? :D

Look at a list of the expeditions Hille has been on over the last 25 years. I don't think they'd get that shot if they weren't good in wind.

http://www.hilleberg.se/images/saivo-2004.gif

Kinda looks exposed at the vestibule

Also any mesh for those summers sleeping with the insects and storage? or do you have an interior shot because I happen to not be able to find any

Also, is 10lbs really that much if you're going solo for 3-4 days?

0o

0

Have a look here for pics. Scroll down.

http://www.moontrail.com/tents/hilleberg_saivo.php

Is the picture above with the rainfly?

The Saivo is a full-on "expedition tent", it is not intended for 2-4 day solo trips backpacking. There are other Hille. and many other makers models better suited to that use and you should research further.

No offence intended here, but, you impress me as a "novice" at severe weather camping and you do not seem to realize that a tent which WILL keep you safe and even comfortable in "expedition" conditions, is not going to be a "mesh" covered or lightweight one.

Maybe look into MSRs line or one of the other "name" makers and save yourself spending the kind of cash a Hille. costs plus learn exactly what an "expedition" tent is and is not.

BTW, I have driven the vaunted "Land Rover" 4x4s that you seem to think highly of from a 1951 to early '70s models here in BC and for several years; this was a part of my employment, not merely recreational "exploring". I could have bought ANY 4x4 I wanted to when I started buying my own and the LAST choice I would make is a Land Rover.

Well i've done my research and I think the Soulo would best fit the category..

P.S. Try the 20th century Land Rovers :D Lots of things change in 30 some odd years fyi.... :D

Warmlite Stephenson 3R

http://warmlite.com/tents.htm

Has two entrances and optional cross bracing for heavy snow and winds stronger than you should be in.

There are a few reviews on this site about it. It sets up with a single person in a heavy blow, in the dark and will be dry inside unless you are underwater. Takes less than 5 mins to set up even if stupid from altitude. Uses 4 stakes in summer add 4 more for heavy weather. In mountaineering you will spend a lot of time putting up any tent if you consider digging and constructing wind breaks and buried snow anchors.

Packs down to about the size of two wine bottles cork to punt. The weight is about right.

Generally, you should not expect one tent to cover all 4 seasons. Either you carry too much or too little.

10 pounds, solo, is a BIG deal.

The Soulo is a fine tent and I love mine, I bought both a red and a green last year and my buddy just HAD to have the red one, which is a bit "bright" for me.

But. it is a "hot" tent and rather restrictive in usable space for even one person, the Allak is a much superior choice for general camping and still stout enough for use anywhere that 99% of people would ever take it.

I think that long experience can teach one certain aspects of wilderness reality that cannot be learned any other way; I base my comments on gear on exactly that.

Although "retired", I am often offered employment moving 4x4s around BC, the Yukon and Alberta for mining firms, I do get to drive about every heavyduty rig available....you NEVER see a Land Rover used in actual bush work here, they are driven by wealthy Asian immigrants and "upwardly mobile" soccer mommies and daddies.

THE 4x4s to beat here are the older Toyotas, both the smaller p/u trucks and the remaining FJ-40s, these sell for serious coin and are dammed hard to find. I would "kill" for a 1-ton FJ-60 truck, a 1980s model, in really fine condition.

But the Allak the the vestibule looks pretty small

Any other "true" solo tents that are good

And for the old-school suvs 4x4 Suv I would pick the Isuzu trooper nice outdoor car not too delicate to play around with... Lots of cargo space.

Dewey says:

"THE 4x4s to beat here are the older Toyotas, both the smaller p/u trucks and the remaining FJ-40s, these sell for serious coin and are dammed hard to find. I would "kill" for a 1-ton FJ-60 truck, a 1980s model, in really fine condition."

If I had the money I would have an FJ-40, these look like a jeep but were made by Toyota and will out perform ANY Jeep in terms of reliability if restored properly, therein lies the $$$. Reliability is the key to not getting stranded with any 4x4, the rest is operator skill level.

I have a restored and fairly modified 1984 Toyota 4x4 truck with manual tranny....so on and so forth, too much to list. It is common for me to pass bigger, much more expensive trucks, and especially Hummers, that are either stuck or broke down. Some of this is operator error, but I see a lot of failed transmissions in newer trucks that are sold as being the toughest you can get. The modern automatic transmissions are made out of play dough. Doesn't matter what the TV ads claim.

The Hilleberg Allak will be my next tent purchase, I'm saving the $$ for one now. I just purchased a Mountain Hardwear Sprite 1, it is a good solo tent for most of the year in milder climates. Only draw back in general, is it has a mesh inner. Since I live in the Southeast US that is not a big problem, and with the right bag would be okay in winter as well. But it is not a expedition grade tent by any means.

I hope to use the Allak for visiting areas in the Northern section of the US. I would also love to visit the Rockies in a couple years.

Good luck with your selection abouttandout, and listen to these guys with experience in the type of climate you will be encountering.

Is the allak's vestibule big?

For a "general purpose" backpacking tent, with some capability in really snarky weather, the Allak is about as close to "perfect" as it gets. For ME, the "Jannu" would be a better choice and I would have bought one had they been available when I bought my Saivo.

The vestibules are what they are, you have to make compromises in gear to get the range of function that you seem to want and the Allak will give you as much space as you need, if, you adapt to it.

Trouthunter, I had an '84 Toy and it went places that I still cannot believe, it was among my all-time favourite 4x4s for general use here in BC. It was stolen from me and I am buying a 2010 basic 4-cylinder-manual tranny Tacoma next spring and then adding a few practical accessories plus "beefing" the suspension.

I totally concur, almost all current 4x4s are junk and I hate driving those huge tanks with over-sized engines and sloppy auto. trannys. I had a 2007 F-350HD crewcab here in autumn of 2007, that my buddy flew me to the Okanogan to drive back to Vancouver; it had the V-10 and was just a total pig to drive. He gave it to me for the winter and I hated the damm thing, so, after one more season, he sold it....and pieces were falling off when it was only 1.5 yrs. old.....pathetic.

Years ago, I discovered that Land Rovers were basically just a British copy of the Kaiser-Willys Jeep (so-called because the military version in WWII and earlier were "GP" vehicles = "General Purpose"). The Brits were supplied with the blueprints in WWII and made only minor modifications for the first ones. Land Rovers got a great reputation because the ones in the British Empire colonies were subjected to pretty harsh conditions and worked very well, plus were easy to fix in the field ("The Gods Must Be Crazy" has a Land Rover that gets fixed a few times, basically with bailing wire and improvisation). However, like all Brit cars, especially those with Lucas electrics, their flaws started showing up by the 1950s and 1960s (largely due to the Brit labour problems). Land Rover is now owned by Tata Industries, so it will be interesting to see what the changes are.

When Barb and I went to Africa a couple years back, I expected to see lots of Land Rovers, especially since we were in a section that was controlled for a while by the UK. But instead, we saw an overwhelming majority of Toyotas, with the model name of Land Cruiser. However, they were not what is sold in the US as a "Land Cruiser" or FJ-40. They look a lot more like the old-style Land Rover. They are all manual, no electronic automated transmissions or 4WD controls, no electric windows, although they used electronic fuel injection.

Here is a 1977 FJ 40 Land Criuser, my dream vehicle for off road travel. This one was restored by Advanced Auto Body in Phoenix AZ. and can be seen at:

http://www.fourwheeler.com/featuredvehicles/129_0907_1977_toyota_fj40_land_cruiser/photo_05.html

The Hilleberg Allak, from the Hilleberg website in the photo below.

http://www.hilleberg.com/2006%20Products/NewAllak.htm

Now I just need to find a cottage gear maker who can make a really, really, big Christmas stocking!

Anyone heard of the tent company Vango?

Are their tents of much better or less quality than Hilleberg?

Are the Hilleberg Tents "flappy"?

Anyone purchase Allak recently?

Bill S,

If I'm not badly mistaken the photo you posted of the Land Cruiser in Africa is a Land Cruiser 70 STD 13 Seater.

I can say about the Hillebergs that I have slept in, if there is one thing they are not it is 'flappy'. The self-standing tents are usually so tight even in moderately high wind they are silent.

"trouthunter said:

Here is a 1977 FJ 40 Land Criuser, my dream vehicle for off road travel. This one was restored by Advanced Auto Body in Phoenix AZ. and can be seen at:"

 

oooooh, now that's a truck. They are some awesome off road vehicles, but once you leave the trail, they drive kinda sloppy. I have been in love with the FJ's, but would prefer an old IH Scout II mostly because they're American. Still, I'm drooling over that FJ.

trouthunter said:

Bill S,

If I'm not badly mistaken the photo you posted of the Land Cruiser in Africa is a Land Cruiser 70 STD 13 Seater.

13 seater? No way! It had 7 places, though we had the rear 3-seat bench filled with the camera gear during the "game chases", so effectively 4 seats. Notice that it is a 4-door plus the rear entry to the luggage area. I suppose there might be an option for a 4th row, which would give 10 seats, but no luggage room. We did see some versions with a longer body, sort of like a Suburban in size.

Yes, they also make a 10 seater and an even smaller one, um 7 seater maybe.

I'm just judging by body style in the photo you posted. The larger hard top Land Cruiser 70's had a sloped hard top above the driver. Quite possible you rode in something I have never seen before. There are several different seating configurations available, the photos I have seem to differ from what you describe with regard to seating arrangement.

There are several companies that do conversions and custom work for special needs. Here is a link to one:

http://ecom.toyota-gib.com/Default.asp?WCI=VariantDetails&WCE=VID:588

Gawd, I would KILL for one of those, LH drive, gas engine and standard tranny!

I've been working with a '95 F-350 Turbo Diesel standard for 3 summers and liked it. It's a bit heavy in mud though but just plain awesome for ridicoulous loads up and down the mountain. I've also worked with newer models and the V10 version and they're pieces of junk! They get worst mileage than the old ones too for some reason...

What do you guys think of the Jeeps? We're looking to buy a good (and hopefully cheap) work truck next year.

Well, I don't have to haul loads Franc, If I did I would probably get an older F-350 diesel just as you describe and mod it. This is what most guys who haul seem to prefer.

The newer trucks are junk in my opinion, the manufacturers are trying to meet the new MPG standards, plus offer too many useless bells and whistles IMO. Computer assisted traction control for example, sounds great in theory, but creates a myriad of possible breakdown problems that can not be easily field repaired! What good does that do? Operator skill is still the best method of traversing rough terrain I think, same as with backpacking, the gear can only do just so much for you.

As far as Jeeps are concerned, I used to be a die hard Jeep guy!

They are fine for short duration recreational playtime, for long term reliability as needed for in a work environment, or for long term personal use, they stink. Jeep wranglers with the right mods are formidable 4x4's no doubt, but for long term use in real working conditions I prefer Toyota for reliability, I did not always feel that way.

A Toyota with the right mods (all brands need them) will do anything a jeep will do, plus last a long time with proper maintenance. It is not uncommon to get 300,000 miles out of a Toyota, while many American trucks need a new tranny at 100,000, some will last a lot longer, I'm not sure what the problem is, but it is not acceptable to me. I work hard for my money and will not cut my own throat just to buy American. American vehicles are cheaper to fix if you can do the work yourself, Toyota parts cost more, but the Toyota's are better engineered to last. Any vehicle can be torn up by the driver, if you're the one buying the parts and doing the repairs, you learn not to do this for the most part, that's when design reliability comes into play I think.

Personally I would avoid Chrysler all together, unless you like to look stylin' while you are broke down.

Just my opinion, but it is based on real long term use, and many hours under the hood making needless repairs to low mileage trucks that did not live up to the promises made.

If you need a heavy hauler, I would go with a Ford-350 diesel with the proper mods. Even these are not as tough as advertised. Most guys around here have the tranny re-worked right off the bat.

As far as mud, generally speaking, the heavier the truck, the more it gets stuck! This is the reason the lighter import 4x4's are so popular around the world, that and the better gas mileage with the 4 cylinder engines, plus it's simply easier to winch out a lighter truck. Ask me how I know!

Don't misunderstand though, there are plenty of Fords, Chevy's, and Wranglers that have the mods to outperform my Toyota truck, especially playing on steep rock. But for work, and reliability, I'll take the one that runs the best.

Now about that tent.....we really have hijacked this thread huh?

I like the Hilleberg's that i have slept in, although I do not yet have one. I have not slept in an ID yet. Personally I would prefer a tent that would get the job done vs. saving a pound or two. How much does wet gear weigh? Or how much does a poor nights sleep cost you?

I guess you can have too much tent, but too little is bad news.

Thanks for the advice! Maybe if we're lucky we can get our hands on a small Toyota pick-up. My friend bought one used for around 6000$ last year and liked it. But then Toyota issued a recall because of potential rust on the frame and bought back the truck for 10500$! Talk about customer service!

I started noticing the preference for Toyotas among serious 4-wheelers when I lived in Florida in the late 80s/early 90s. Seemed like Toyotas were the only foreign trucks getting the lift kits and monster mudder.

Struck me that a Toyota had to be one tough truck to overcome the innate American truck-buyers' bias against Japanese iron (still common 20 years ago; all but gone now).

I had a Toyota T100 4x4 for about five years -- never got it muddy but it got me out of many a snowdrift. Best vehicle I ever owned.

I concur with the remark about Chrysler products: long on design, short on engineering.

We've used the MH Trango 2 for about 10 years and it has performed like a champ. Admittedly, it was overkill for majority of our trips, so we got a lighter three season to give the sherpas some relief ;-). But on the winter trips where it was put to the test, it was rock solid. I've never put it on the scales, but i'm pretty sure it's in the 10 lb range. They are about 100 bucks more than a decade ago, sadly.

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