Cheap gear

Is it just me, or does anyone else here love to buy inexpencive stuff.

I just bought a new Glaciers Edge 2 person tube tent $25. What realy got me on it was the polyethylene tub floor. I have yet to have one leak. The stitching is very good. The door covers nearly the whole front of the tent with no see-um screen. The front of the tent is 5' wide by 38" high. Tapering to 2.5' wide by 21" high in the back. No see-um sides and back. You can fit two people in it easly! And less than 4 lbs.

The rain fly covers the whole tent. But was not taped. So I seam sealed all yesterday. I have yet another tent coming in. A Guide Gear. Yes another North Pole tent. Large for car camping on the beach, party tent per say. I buy all my camping cloths at a second hand store. There are some good buys from time to time. My cooking gear is..... boy scout stuff. Stove is a popcan Backpack off of Graigslist..

Just thinking about this today. I've been camping the cheapest way now for over 30 years.I have been in storms that tipped trailers and folded tents. I have allways stayed dry and upright. Of course I inspect the tent and weather proof yearly.

Maybe its just me, or dumb luck, that this stuff last me years and years. But I love the challange. Theres a cheap thrill in going out with inexpencive stuff. In two seasons you know if you have done good.

You know it's you, cuz like everyone says, it aint the cheap crap your buying.

I know what you mean I am always upgrading and buying gear too I have enough gear for about 3 people for almost any terrain and climate well for North East US anyway. I buy buy buy new used cloths to backpacks.

I personally like to get gear made with quality I not big on brand name just that its well made.

I figure buying good gear is the least expensive way to go. I use my gear extensivley every year all year.

Here is what I have observed:

1- Good gear is not always the most expensive. Regarding backpacking, The best gear is what fits your needs-nothing more is necessary. Avoid the temptations of the stores and catalogs.

2-If you need it, pay for it. Case in point: I bought a coleman backpacking blended fuel canister stove for 25.00 15 years ago. I use this stove on almost all of my trips (except summer and the very coldest winter trips). That comes out to about $1.66 per year in gear cost plus $7.00/year in fuel. I have found that my alcohol stove is more expensive, yet the weight savings is worth it on certain trips. Another case in point I bought a cheap Korean mad gasoline stove that NEVER worked reliably and aggravated me to no end. It cost $10.00 and I hated it. Sleeping bags, for years I would buy the cheap bags every other year at approximately 20.00. I bought a 200.00 North Face Cats Meow 14 years ago and it is still quite serviceable and quite warm. 14.50/year is not a bad deal and continues to be avalue. My list goes on but I will not bore you.

3-Boots, If you ara a masochist or one of the fortunate few who can carry 25-30 lbs all day in cheap leaky shoes, then hallelujah for you. I used a pair of Italian made boots for 10 years that would still be serviceable if I could find someone locally to resole them. I buy a 150.00 pair of boots every three years. 50.00/year for boots is cheap compared to hobbling on blisters.

For what it's worth, to me and my humble opinion, cheap gear is not worth my time and money for the type of outdoor activity I indulge.

Not boring at all. Love to here it! And I'm sick of sleeping bags that suck. I'm going to spend some cash next time. I have not found a cheap sleeping bag that is worth much. And yes some stuff aint worth buying. And I'm one of those people that dont even think to much about footware. My legs and feet never hurt. Lucky I guess.

And you are right on #1

As soleful2001 states about foot wear, good foot wear is critical. I have a hard time with boot due to a old injury so I spend a lot of $$ on good foot wear each year. But as far as good gear goes it is cheaper to spend the money once on a good piece of gear rather than multiple times on cheaper gear. And just because it cost's a lot of money doesn't mean its good.

I'll continue to echo the footwear sentiment. Worth investing in but finding "the right pair of boots" always involves trying them on before you buy. Nothing is worse than what a bad pair of boots does to your feet or hiking trip. I have never bought boots on line for a cheaper price like other gear. Always bought in a store after looking on line for good/bad write ups. Have you all ever bought boots online with any sucess?

As to cheap tents, I've had my fair share and some lasted for years. I still have a Walmart special that was ~$20 that's lasted 9 years, never ripped or leaked. Every year I wait for it to fail and it never has. (Granted I just jinxed myself for this year). I've also done the homemade hammock and tarp thing on a few trips.

Sleeping bags I have and have used cheap ones primarily which has made for some cold wet nights but last year end up spending ~$100 for a North Face Cats Meow at REI last on sale. I haven't regretted that spend which was cheap as some sleeping bags go and I've been a lot warmer and comfortable for it. Sleeping pad is a old army surplus polypad which has never failed if awkward to roll.

Also I could never see spending big money for a headlamp unless you do spelunking because for the most part I plan or try not to be hiking at night, I find it is a great way to get lost if your not careful. So it's primary use is reading a book or looking in my bag for something at night. I have a cheap EverReady that cost a bit more than the batteries it uses and is just as light as some of the expensive lamps.

I like to say I do purchase inexpensive gear but NOT "cheap gear".

This I do know, good gear does not need to be expensive or BIG name.

I patronize Sierra Trading Post alot and they always seem to have such great deals. I think my ALPS Mountaineering Zenith 2 AL Tent is one such example of this. Great little tent and at a reasonable cost (got mine for under $83.00!)

This tent is holding up very well. Quality materials and construction.

Who says one needs a Sierra Designs of Mountain Hardware tent???...maybe only BIG Name Bob!

As for boots, I have been using my Cabela's All-Leather Mountain Hikers. http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20564-cat601934&id=0009024811047a&navCount=1&podId=0009024811047&parentId=cat601934&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=IK&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat601233&hasJS=true

They are extremely well made and durable. Plus very comfortable to say the least. The fit is right on too.

Used these boots a couple of days ago while backpacking the Archers Fork Trail.

Something I don't quite follow, minister. You post a lot about avoiding BIG Names, yet you apparently buy a lot from Cabela's. Cabela's proclaims themselves to be World's Foremost Outfitter (prominently on the covers of their catalogs), with their 29 stores "Coast to Coast". They sell "Top-of-the-Line Brands", and their stores are huge (smallest one I have been in, the one in Reno, NV, is larger than the largest REI I have been in, the "Flagship Store" in Seattle). They have their own brand name on much of their gear. The small sale catalog that I recently got is over 200 pages long, with the Master Catalogs being up to 600-700 pages, plus at least a half dozen special area catalogs, including firearms, vehicle, and a bunch of others. I get these "half the forest worth of paper" catalogs from them every 4 or 5 weeks, even though I have never ordered anything from them by mail (I have gotten a few things over the years in the stores).

Considering how huge their store's physical size, the huge catalogs, having their own brand name on a wide variety of gear, and (according to their financial statements) the size of their revenue, why do you consider them not to be one of your condemned Big Name companies? Mountain Hardwear (this is the correct spelling) is a division of Columbia these days, but was until a year or two ago an independent company, much smaller than Cabella's. Sierra Designs total size is smaller than a single Cabella's store in personnel and revenues. Feathered Friends and Westen Mountaineering are smaller than the sleeping bag department of the Reno Cabella's, and Marmot (the manufacturing company, as well as the independent retail Marmot) is much smaller than Cabella's as well. Black Diamond, with their multiple lines of climbing and ski gear and their tents, is also much smaller.

So what is your criterion (or if it is multiple criteria, what are they) that leads you to condemn these top of the line specialty outdoor shops?

Inquiring minds want to know, so educate us so we can avoid the Evil Empires.

Bill S said:

Something I don't quite follow, minister. You post a lot about avoiding BIG Names, yet you apparently buy a lot from Cabela's. Cabela's proclaims themselves to be World's Foremost Outfitter (prominently on the covers of their catalogs), with their 29 stores "Coast to Coast". They sell "Top-of-the-Line Brands", and their stores are huge (smallest one I have been in, the one in Reno, NV, is larger than the largest REI I have been in, the "Flagship Store" in Seattle). They have their own brand name on much of their gear.

Hello Bill,

I'll be more than happy to answer your question. Even though Cabela's does sell gear from those "BIG name" companies, I NEVER purchase those brands. I only buy the Cabela's brand stuff (boots, raingear, hiking socks, duffle and drybags, etc.).

Why is the Cabela's brand not BIG name brand you may ask? Is this THE BRAND all trendy backpackers desire is the answer to the question. I say unto thee, nay, rather the trendy brands would be Sierra Designs, Mountain Hardware, MSR, etc. Those are what I would consider BIG name. The size of the company is totally irrelevant. It mattereth not that Cabela's calls itself "The World's Foremost Outfitter". That does not bother me one bit. The Cabela's brand is neither BIG name or trendy.

Another example: Even though Campmor sells gear from those BIG name brands, I NEVER purcahse those trendy brands. I purchase the Campmor ("house") brand, such as their Storm Sphere rain jacket http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___75550 , Trekmor collection hiking clothes http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___11220 http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___13589, etc.

To sum it all up, I guess my "approach" to backpacking is to take the "non-trendy" route as it were, even how unpopular that may prove to be at times.

I hope this clears things up for you.

Not to start an argument but, Ill have to agree with bill Cabela's is a big brand name just like LL.Bean. Furthermore if and when you do buy a brand name it does have its perks like warranty. Example Kelty you can send a Kelty pack back to them costing you only a phone call & shipping one-way and have it repaired even if it is 20 years old. Or Snow Peak I have called & shipped a stove back to them after the product was well out of warranty it was replaced with a new one and sent back to me no charge. I suppose its the same way with MSR, Mountain Hardware, Outdoor Research & ect not that I don't buy off brands too because I do my main requirement is quality but there is something to be said for a brand name, for the most part they would rater take the loss on one broken item vs the loss of 100 sales due to word of mouth or a possible law suite due to someone being hurt by a defective product.

Mike,

I'm not so sure "BIG Name Bob" would consider LL Bean or Cabela's to be a "BIG name brand". Actually, he claimed his feelings would be "hurt" if someone shewed up to one of his sponsored hikes with either REI or LL Bean gear. That really seemed to really upset Bob Collins alot.

Most people definately would not consider either of these brands to be the brands "to have", meaning those "cool" brands if you get my point. Sierra Designs of Mountain Hardware seem much more those "trendy" brands to have, in my opinion.

Ah, I see! "BIG Name" = "desirable", "excellent/outstanding quality", "excellent/outstanding reputation", "famous for good reason." Ya know, there is a reason that companies like Feathered Friends, Western Mountaineering, and Integral Designs have great reputations, are considered very desirable to have, and are highly recommended by those really active in the outdoors, despite not advertising.There is something called "word of mouth" from experienced users of gear.

OTOH, a lot of people I run into when I base-camp in campgrounds by Cabela's store brand, and tell me when I ask about the tents and other gear that they bought it because it was in the catalog, was on "special", or the salesman in the store recommended it to them.

Trendy can mean superficial and faddish or it can mean up-to-date, which can be a good thing as far as gear is concerned. So, personally, I don't think it's a good way by itself to judge gear for better or worse.

I've bought a bit of LL Bean and REI gear in my life, in addition to many of the other "big" and "little" brands mentioned above. I think with the range of gear companies out there, most have a place for different outdoorspeople with different needs at different times.

I say buy the gear you like that is of value to you and works for your needs. Counting any company in or out based solely on superficial reasons like what its label says can be counter productive.

Ultimately it's about getting a good value from your gear, and that might mean buying something at a low price point or at a high price point, provided you buy what works for you and your needs.

I just wish to say I own a MH tent, I bought it because I was tired of lesser tents giving me the old drip torture, poles breaking in high wind, poor ventilation, no vestibule, etc. I bought a MH tent after looking at several well made tents set up in my local outfitters. I was very impressed with the quality and the design.

I truly had no idea that MH was in vogue. It was a very wise purchase & has served me well. I would buy another one in a heartbeat.

My "Big Name" gear has been purchased purely for quality, trends or status symbols had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Okay, maybe the coffee press was trendy, but not my main backpacking gear.

I think maybe ministercreek (like me) dislikes the superficial (thanks Alicia) status symbol type use of gear we all see in town and so forth. Or maybe, the impression some have that high dollar gear is just fluff marketing for the rich & foolish, so you prove you are not a fool by buying lesser gear that works for you.

A TNF Mountain Light Jacket just to rush from the car to the entrance of Starbucks? Some people really don't ever wear their technical clothing anyplace besides the mall. Hey, that's totally their business, they will be warm! But it does look superficial to the serious adventurer. Who knows really, maybe they are serious adventurers too!

As Alicia points out:

Some of my gear is second hand, some is Coleman, Columbia, Cabelas, etc. I use this stuff for car camping or Boy Scout trips. It would be unwise to use my MH tent camping on a ball field with 150 teenagers running around it, so my old Eureka is a good value for that application.

But when it comes to my serious backpacking gear I buy quality, MH, Patagonia, Marmot, MSR, etc. Trends or labels have nothing to do with it. Sometimes you don't know what you're missing until you get some real quality gear whether it be Big Name or high end Cottage Industry (like my Hennessey Hammock/ very well made).

I'll bet most people on Trailspace have a similar mindset.

Actually, when I lay out my own money for gear, I almost always get gear that I have either had a chance to try out personally, seen in action in the kind of environment I intend to use it, is personally recommended by someone who has had personal experience with it in the environment I will be using it and whose judgment I trust, or at the very least, I have had a chance to actually handle and examine very closely. I try very hard to avoid the "pig in a poke", where the only thing I have to go on is the ad writer's puff piece and hype or what the salesperson is pushing. I do not really care what the brand name is, though I do have restrictions on the source (I won't buy stolen things, stuff manufactured or grown by exploitive companies, heavy polluters - though everyone pollutes to some level, and a whole list of other restrictions). I do get some things to try out or beta test for free or a very cheap price, some of which turn out to be real gems and most of which turns out to be garbage.

The point here is - it is not the brand name or company size per se that decides the specific item I get. There are lots of well-known brand names and lots of small companies that produce junk, lots of both that produce stuff good enough for the car camper or weekend backpacker but is inadequate for the type of backcountry and wilderness activities I do, and a number of well-known names (some big companies, some with only a half dozen or less employees) that produce high quality gear.

But as has been said here and elsewhere many times - de gustibus non est disputandum, or different strokes for different folks. Packs, boots, and other gear is very personal. Some people head for the hills to do different things and approach backpacking, skiing, climbing, ... in different styles.

Make your own choice - if it works for you, fine. If it doesn't, then do something different.

Alicia said:

Trendy can mean superficial and faddish or it can mean up-to-date, which can be a good thing as far as gear is concerned. So, personally, I don't think it's a good way by itself to judge gear for better or worse....I say buy the gear you like that is of value to you and works for your needs. Counting any company in or out based solely on superficial reasons like what its label says can be counter productive.

Ultimately it's about getting a good value from your gear, and that might mean buying something at a low price point or at a high price point, provided you buy what works for you and your needs.

Alicia, all I can say is "Amen" to your comment. I couldn't put it any better. Trouthunter, I do understand your point and do agree with you. I believe what you said. You are not trying to be in "trends" or "status symbols". Point noted. I can understand the need for a decent tent firsthand. However, I seen this most disturbing "trend" from many in the backpacking world where one has to own those popular, BIG name brands to be in the "cool" crowd. I guess this is what I'm getting at. I have absolutely no desire to be in that crowd, if you get my point. The backpacking store Bob Collins started http://www.appalachianoutfitters.com/ao/history.asp sums up my point exactly: http://www.appalachianoutfitters.com/ao/products.asp

Seems like they only carry those trendy, BIG name brands.

This is exactly the point I am attempting to make. I choose gear that works...well, very well at that. I discovered that gear simply does not need to be "BIG name" or one of those popular brand names. The gear I own and use works very good for me. I depend on the same to keep me comfortable and alive year around.

No one suggested that I purchase the gear I have nor was I approached by some salesperson. I chose the gear solely on terms of performance and quality, nothing else.

So far I own/use gear from ALPS Mountaineering, SunnyRec Corp, Diamond Brand, Cabela's, The Backside along with others. Notice none of these brands are "fashionable" in the backpacking world that I can see.

Thanks for the comment. :)

The bottom line here is this:

It is not the gear - it is what you do with it. Or as one of my mentors put it, it is not the tool; it is the tool user.

Having a Formula One car does not make you a race driver. Having a SuperPhoto camera does not make you Ansel Adams or Galen Rowell. (The Diana Project proved that great photographers can take great photographs with a cheap camera.)

Experienced, knowledgable outdoorspeople can get along comfortably with unknown gear. Inexperienced and unskilled people can (and do) die while using the best-made gear.

WOW! I stated this thread to findout if others enjoyed tempting nature to blow you away with inexpencive gear. But it was a good read. I just bought a backpack for $8. An internal frame Stansport Passport 1010. A little heavy, but it is realy big! And it has been well used. I had to fix a sipper but other than that it seems to be well made. I should be able to test it out this weekend. Along with my Glaciers Edge tent. Warm weather but a good chance of strong winds and rain.

Mike Morrow,

Do you have any links you can provide for the gear you use. I'm curious what it is exactly what you use.

I did Google Stansport btw. Looks like they have a tent that is almost identicle to the Cabela's XPG Expedition four-season tent. Almost the same name too! Compare: http://www.stansport.com/2007/productlist.php?sid=168&cid=24

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal-pod.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/pod-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20075-cat602107&rid=&indexId=cat602107&navAction=push&masterpathid=&navCount=1&parentType=index&parentId=cat602107&id=0055294

Amazing! Almost the same except for the colours. Same manufacturer by chance?

Bruce Morrow

Bill S said:

Ah, I see! "BIG Name" = "desirable", "excellent/outstanding quality", "excellent/outstanding reputation", "famous for good reason."

Nay, I will have to differ with you on this particuliar point, Bill. Judging from my years of experience with many different brands of gear, I discovered gear neither needs to be from some "BIG name" to be of as you term it of "excellent quality" and "desirable".

This comes from years of actual usage.

I'm always seeking out and testing out gear from those lesser-known brands.

ministercreek said:

I did Google Stansport btw. Looks like they have a tent that is almost identicle to the Cabela's XPG Expedition four-season tent. Almost the same name too!

Amazing! Almost the same except for the colours. Same manufacturer by chance?

I looked at the links and I have to agree. The two tents do look a lot alike. I wish there was a pic of the vestibule of the Stansport tent to compare it as well.

Retailers have, for years, been purchasing items from manufacturers, and placing their own name on them. Take Sears for example. Kenmore is a brand, not a manufacturer. You won't find a Kenmore factory anywhere in the world. Sears puts products out for bid and whomever can build the product with the features they want, and can do it for a price Sears wants to pay, gets the contract. Your Kenmore washer may actually be a Maytag, a Whirlpool, or some brand you've never heard of. The important thing here, is that Sears backs their "named" products with their own warranty. That keeps their customers happy. That, in many people's view, makes Sears/Kenmore, a good "Big" company even though your particular washer may have been made by a very small one.

So saying all that, I'll say this:

A while back I was looking for an inexpensive (not cheap) pack for an extended LNT trainers course. I have a Cabela's store less than 30 mins from my home, so naturally I went there to look. I looked at quite a few Cabela's packs. Some seemed OK, some were way overkill, and some looked poorly made. A sales associate, whom I know personally, asked me if I needed help, so I told him what I was looking for. He directed me to a Kelty pack. I explained that I wasn't looking to spend a lot of money right now, I just need a less expensive pack.

The associate explained that this particularly Kelty WAS less expensive than the comparably sized Cabela's pack, and because of a special buy, this model was available exclusively through Cabela's. I bought the Kelty. Good name pack, at a big box discount price. Did I do Good? Did I do something bad? It really doesn't matter to me. The pack held my stuff, and I saved almost $75 bucks over the "Store Brand".

f klock,

I'm glad you found a pack that met your needs. Really that's all that counts.

Btw, I don't consider Kelty to be "BIG name" just so you know.

I must tell you this: I purchased me The North Face VE-25 tent from Campmor back in 2003. BIG name brand? Yes, but I saved $100.00 purchasing it from Campmor due to the fact the tent I purchased was the 2002 model. I see your point exactly. Mine was $399.00 US.

As one other poster pointed in another topic buy a good product the first time and you will spend less in the long run. Example: I bought a cheaper coat and compared to my Columbia of similar specs and it sucks so I gave it to the rescue mission and continued with my old half warn out Columbia coat after I took it to a cleaner and had the main zipper replaced so all in all it cost me 2/3 the cost of a new Colombia. So yes this year I will buy a new Colombia coat for the this coming winter season.

Another approach to cheap Vs big name is to make your own gear. I'd rather work making gear at home and learning stuff than work for someone else and earn money to buy gear. Truth is, i have a lot of free time (I work 2 months a year) and not a lot of money. This was my solution to own a state-of-the-art big name bivy worth 200$ for 35$ worth of fabric and 3 hours on a sewing machine.

Clothing is another thing that's way overrated in my opinion. It's meant to be used and happily destroyed in a harsh environment and they sell the stuff a fortune. Salvation army and thrift stores have tons of synthetic pants,pure merino wool sweaters 5$ instead of 100$, mits, hats, wet suits, tents (great for the fabric), chaco sandals........

Save your money and take a hike!!

When I bicycle tour I ride expensive style touring bikes, but when I need a new tire, inner tube or spare cables I go to Kmart.Walmart and Western Auto stores. Even things like bike saddles cycling gloves, speedometers, headlights, water bottles/carriers and bicycle racks, helmets, tools and sometimes panniers can be found cheaper and just as durable at the above stores as a company called Bell make them and sells in these stores.

In fact a good thing for touring is the "No More Flats" brand inner tubes. They average about $20 and are not tubes at all but closed cell foam that simulates a fully inflated inner tube and never go flat as the name implies. Saves a lot of broken spokes and having to change the average three flats per thousand milles I usually get with regular inner tubes.

I Love cheap gear! It makes me not feel as bad about beating it up, cuz i tend to get rough. I always buy things on sale and/or wholesale. If there's one piece of advice I can give anyone its- Never buy something when you need it. If you do, then it most likely won't be on sale, there might be limited selection, and you'll prob settle for less than what you were looking for at twice the price. don't wait until your boots sole-less to look for new ones, and if you think you might need something someday and there is a coupon or a sale on it, BUY IT.

But at the same time, buying a $200 pack that is durable and reliable would be a better choice than buying a $110 pack that is of poor quality and having to buy another one. Always choose quality, that's why i go wholesale- cheap and its the same as the expensive stuff. Minimalist is also a good option. without all the unnecessary knick nacks, you're saving weight and will less materials often comes less chance of breaking down and lower cost.

Hey Gary, Aren't those things really heavy? I toured on a mountain bike with heavy duty road tires and nary a flat, if I recall correctly. I don't like a lot of rotational weight. I was carrying enough stuff (80 lbs including the bike) let alone loading up the tires. I put drop bars and bar end shifters on the bike, so it was more a heavy touring bike than a total mountain bike. This was before the days of suspension.

Here's a verse from the song "Fishin' With Bill" by Greg Brown:

"You see some folks out on the river

Scientifically clean

They look like every thing just kinda stuck to them

The last time they walked through old LL Bean"

There's nothing wrong with buying the top of the line as long as you USE it. Nothing sadder than good gear moldering away in a garage or closet.

I just found a Cabelas Trekker V Sleeping Bag(Mummy Style) rated at -20 for 15.00. Works great but I highly dought the temp. rating. Can these ratings be off by 30-40 degrees? I used it car camping and I was expecting to sweat it out.

I bought a pair of Clarks' hiking shoes from their factory outlet in a poor part of London for £5. Features were leather, gore-tex, power-zone and active-air. It seemed a good price and my intention was to use them as walking shoes in the city. They leaked in heavy English rain :(

When it came to planning my rainforest expedition, the mountaineering stores turned their faces sharply away from my Clarks - then 3 months used.

Sadly, I didn't find a better pair of shoes, and I didn't feel like (or could not afford) spending £200+ on upgrading the trademark. Consequently, I wore the Clarks through the rainforest, through rivers, up mountains and back again - which was another 3 months. I'm still wearing them and they are great - they no longer leak. Go figure.

They were not perfect. For example, I experienced a few slips on very smooth wet rocks while climbing a mountain by way of a river. I also experienced slips in wet mud. The model is now discontinued and I see that Clarks have replaced power-zone with rock technology (whatever that is).

I cannot really compare because I wasn't wearing an alternative. However, my friends' shoes broke under the stresses and the moral is, when in doubt, find a factory outlet and spend £5.

Having said that, I am now looking for something safer on wet rocks!