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Posted by Bill S on November 19, 2007 at 8:33:01 pm EST
In reply to Winter Camping - First Timer Needs Advice posted by BigSmoke on October 24, 2007 at 12:41:24 pm EDT

Mike Boersma said

Quote:

A propane stove may not work well below 32F/0C, so plan on using a white gas or multifuel stove.

Not so. Propane's vaporization point is -40 (F or C, since this is the cross-over temperature). What you meant was butane, which has a vaporization point of +32F/0C. Butane is the primary chemical in most (but not all) backpacking canister stoves. Markill and MSR (and a couple others) use isobutane as the primary constituent (vaporization point is +10F), because it works reasonably well down to 10F. The vast majority of canisters with butane as the primary constituent add some propane (usually about 20%) or some isobutane plus propane these days. Read the label (as you should for any fuel).

He also said

Quote:

You will want a free standing tent for winter camping

Not necessarily. Many of us use pyramid tents like the Black Diamond Megamid or similar tents from other manufacturers (like Integral Designs) in winter, particularly when ski touring and trying to keep the weight down. If you look in the Trailspace News, you will see the Posh Tent we used in Antarctica as our dining tent http://www.trailspace.com/news/2007/02/13/vinson-anniversary-climb.html

You will also note in that News article that we used Kelty Windfoil 3's for our sleeping tents, which are hoop tents that require staking. While it is partially true that so-called "free-standing" tents are more popular, far too many people forget that if there is any breeze at all (and most especially in winter) ALL tents, including "free standing" tents MUST be staked down. Even full-on expedition tents will collapse under a heavy snow load if not properly staked and guyed.

The rest of his comments are ok.

debmonster makes a blanket statement that

Quote:

insulated bladders will usually freeze below 20 degrees

That depends on whether you take proper care of your hydration bladder. There are simple techniques for keeping a Camelbak liquid. I have used mine on many occasions down to the -40 range with no problem (I did have a freeze-up at -30 in a 25 knot wind one time when I got careless and did not follow the basic rules). However, I would suggest that until you get a fair amount of experience with winter camping under your belt, you not use a hydration bladder. To be more specific on water bottles, if possible get a parka that has a water bottle pocket INSIDE the parka, plus keep the bottle inside a cozy. Outdoor Research's cozy (the one that zips closed) is the only one I have found to work fairly consistently. In experiments with various insulating methods, a 1-liter Nalgene in an OR cozy, starting with boiling water, had cooled to 50F at 11 hours in 0F temperatures. In the Nissan 1 liter thermos, the water was still at 100F after 27 hours, and in the Nissan 1/2 liter thermos it was at 100F at 20 hours. Several other brands of insulated bottles (non-Thermos brands) had frozen within 3 or 4 hours - so check any supposedly insulated bottles by testing before depending on them (the Thermos Nissan bottles are fairly hard to find, though I have seen them occasionally in some of the Big Box stores).

Most of debmonster's comments are fine.

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet in this go-round on winter (but has been mentioned in previous Trailspace discussions) is the use of a pee-bottle. Take a 1 liter wide-mouth bottle into the tent with you. It should be a different shape from your water bottles, so you can tell at a touch. This saves getting out of the tent to go tripping lightly across the snow when nature calls at 2AM. With practice, you can learn to use the bottle lying down in your sleeping bag (ladies - get yourself one of the funnels made for women. Campmor has several versions, with the Freshette being most popular among women on expeditions http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=39277920&memberId=12500226)

Remember, for clothing, NO COTTON! Not even for underwear or socks. As the old saying among outdoors types who do lots of winter camping and climbing expeditions in sub-freezing conditions "Cotton Kills!". Wool (merino wool, particularly) will retain some warmth when wet (from sweat or from spilled water). Synthetics, like polyester, retain less water than wool, and similarly do not collapse like cotton does when wet.

The other basic rule for clothing, already stated, is LAYERS

There's lots more (I have a couple hundred page notebook I use for the students in my winter camping courses), but as already suggested, look for a course offered by an outing club in your vicinity.

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