Hoover Wilderness/NE Yosemite PCT question

8:47 p.m. on August 22, 2012 (EDT)
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I'm planning what will probably be my last hiking trip in the Sierra and have run into a map/trail question that some of you may be able to answer.  I'm hoping to head up into Yosemite through the Hoover Wilderness this September.  I am planning on parking at Twin Lakes and hiking up past Robinson and Peeler Lakes, north through Buckeye Pass and then north west towards Piute Meadows and Piute Cabin.  It looks like that same trail connects with the PCT just north of Dorothy Lake and Dorothy Lake Pass but  my map doesn't cover where the trails should meet up.  

Does the trail continue northwest from Piute Cabin and meet up with the PCT?  I would love to either keep walking up to Dorothy Lake for a night or two, or at least dayhike that section.  I'm also going to head up to Tower Lake for a night before hiking back out the way I came in.  Depending on time I'd also like to head up and over Rock Island Pass and spend a night at Snow Lake on my way out.

I'm going to check with the local outdoor store to see if they have a map or guidebook that can confirm those trails actually meet, but I was hoping somebody here could answer the question.  I'm sure the REI in Santa Rosa, CA has maps of the area (Carson-Iceberg, Emigrant Mokelumne Wilderness Areas) but it is a 6 hour round trip and my work schedule over the next few weeks is going to be hectic.

12:08 p.m. on August 23, 2012 (EDT)
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dM,

I was in the Hoover on Sunday coming from Leavitt Meadows near Sonora Pass.  Recent rains have really greened up the country and reduced the fire danger.  I have spent time around Dorothy Lake in the past, and my recollection is that you will definitely connect with the PCT.  For confirmation I would call one of the horse packers in that country or around Mammoth Lakes and get their ideas.  They are professionals and live out there.

1:09 p.m. on August 23, 2012 (EDT)
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http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=38.19563,-119.55872&z=14&t=T

See if that helps any.  You can zoom in and move around using controls.

Cascade Creek and trail to Dipper Lake appear to be only connections to PCT that continues north parallel to Piute Meadows

1:41 p.m. on August 23, 2012 (EDT)
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I think you have your directions a little mixed up. One source of confusion is that there are two Twin Lakes not far apart near the northern Yosemite NP border. I believe the Twin Lakes you want is the one circled in red and labelled on the right side of the map. The other Twin Lakes is circled in red and labelled on the left side of the map. The trail I believe you want to take is the purple line (actually the dotted trail line alongside the purple line - I drew the trail lines so they would be alongside the trail and not cover it). Note that the trail goes SOUTH over Buckeye Pass (not north, circled in red and labelled)), with Peeler Lake (circled in red and labelled) to the east of the trail. It continues southwesterly to Seavey Pass near Piute Mountain, where you join the PCT. At the junction, the PCT is coming from the SW and turns sharp left to the west, down Kerrick Canyon.

If you click on the map below (copyright by National Geographic), you will get a larger view that you can study in more detail. A still larger view is gotten by clicking next on "View/Download", with a magnifier that enlarges still farther. You can get a good map (high definition, scanned from the USGS 7.5 min quads) to print out from AllTrails.com (if you have a large enough printer).


image.jpg

5:46 p.m. on August 23, 2012 (EDT)
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Ahh, I had him going counter clockwise, thinking he was looking to do a lollypop loop out of Mono area north over the pass and north(ish) on South and North Forks thence to Dorothy Lk (somehow) - even as far N as Fremont Lk and S on Chain of Lakes trail to Dipper to pick up the PCT to the west then down to Dorothy.  Then  continue south on PCT to catch the return trail in Kerrick Canyon and then back to Peeler area and out.

Really pretty area and almost the end of the Sierra on the PCT north.

6:08 p.m. on August 23, 2012 (EDT)
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Drive past Mono Village and park at the resort at Twin Lakes.  Head east to Barney Lake (I kept calling it Robinson, that was my mistake), go south east past Peeler Lake.  Then hike north through Buckeye Pass, hang a left at the trail intersection and walk towards Piute Cabin.  From there I'll head north, hit the Cascade Falls trail and take that to Dorothy Lake.  Then I'll turn around and head back out the same way.  If I have the time and food I'll take an extra day and walk up and over Rock Island Pass on the way out.  Just because.

My last reply got eaten by the interwebz.  speacock, that link you supplied was especially helpful.  A while back I was pretty sure that I wouldn't be able to hike at all this summer so this is a nice bonus.  I'll be leaving CA in my rear view mirror next spring or summer and to miss out on my last season of hiking here would have stunk.

edit:  I've also been thinking about the route speacock has listed, a big counterclockwise lolly pop.  Depending on time that may be exactly what I try.  Nothing against out and backs but I would get to see a little more country that I haven't walked over yet.

1:48 p.m. on August 24, 2012 (EDT)
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The only people that ever get lost coming out to my rural location are those that rely on Google or internet directions.  It is common for people to get lost in the winter in the Great Basin and die of exposure when they rely on auto GPS systems that don't differentiate the road hierarchy.

8:22 p.m. on August 24, 2012 (EDT)
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What does that have to do with my question?????????????

9:27 a.m. on August 25, 2012 (EDT)
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Probably the wrong window.  The engineers in the database design department sometimes get a bit confused on my answers to specific problems. 

Once got a reply asking how to find the trail head tho  :)

That is UPPER Long Lake not DIPPER... Time to get a better grade of drugstore glasses. Had Ousel on my mind.

The problem with providing map links/suggestions is that there is no guaranty that the trails are usable - lately.  Even Tom Harrison maps are off on occasion.  He had a bridge located a mile from where it actually was.  Changed our choice of camp that night - for the better - however.  Got a free replacement map from him, too.

11:41 a.m. on August 25, 2012 (EDT)
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1333,

This an at length discussion of your proposed route that is all based on indirect information and remote sensing.  If you want a definitive answer to your question call a packer.

12:55 p.m. on August 25, 2012 (EDT)
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ppine said:

1333,

This an at length discussion of your proposed route that is all based on indirect information and remote sensing.  If you want a definitive answer to your question call a packer.

Not to besmirch professional outfitters but…

Unless you have your own boots on the ground, all information from others is indirect.  JMO

What makes their maps a better source of information than my USGS maps, or Nat Geo TOPO maps (which are derived from USGS data bases?). What makes their first hand experience more credible than others who have walked those trails?  In any case just because someone does something for a living doesn’t automatically mean they are experts – certain doctors are called quacks for a reason.  Additionally I have been given inaccurate information by folks manning base station phones before.  The guy flying the desk at a ranger office or outfitter center doesn’t necessarily get out there on a regular basis, if at all.  Often they provide dated information.  In one instance I was shown an aerial image that indicated snow covering most of the high passes in July, when in fact the image was months old and most of the passes had been free of snow for weeks.  

A few here on the forum have been doing this longer than most outfitters have been alive.  You probably include yourself among this group.  Trails may be rerouted, thus an old recollection may vary in detail from the current routing, but I can’t recall any connector route like the one related to this thread ever being eliminated altogether.  I personally did not post a reply because those already present provided reliable information that resonates with my personal memory, all of which corresponds with the several USGS area and detail maps I have on file, as well as my state version of TOPO maps.

Perhaps if someone provided sketchy info herein your remarks would be warranted, but as it is, the remark appears to diminish the veracity of those who responded to this specific post.  That said, I agree Google maps is wrought with errors – according to Google my restaurant is in the middle of a municipal park 1½ miles from its actual location.  Multiple attempts to correct this error have not been effective.

Ed     

12:57 p.m. on August 25, 2012 (EDT)
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ppine said:

1333,

This an at length discussion of your proposed route that is all based on indirect information and remote sensing.  If you want a definitive answer to your question call a packer.

Not to besmirch professional outfitters but…

Unless you have your own boots on the ground, all information from others is indirect.  JMO

What makes their maps a better source of information than my USGS maps, or Nat Geo TOPO maps (which are derived from USGS data bases?). What makes their first hand experience more credible than others who have walked those trails?  In any case just because someone does something for a living doesn’t automatically mean they are experts – certain doctors are called quacks for a reason.  Additionally I have been given inaccurate information by folks manning base station phones before.  The guy flying the desk at a ranger office or outfitter center doesn’t necessarily get out there on a regular basis, if at all.  Often they provide dated information.  In one instance I was shown an aerial image that indicated snow covering most of the high passes in July, when in fact the image was months old and most of the passes had been free of snow for weeks.  

A few here on the forum have been doing this longer than most outfitters have been alive.  You probably include yourself among this group.  Trails may be rerouted, thus an old recollection may vary in detail from the current routing, but I can’t recall any connector route like the one related to this thread ever being eliminated altogether.  I personally did not post a reply because those already present provided reliable information that resonates with my personal memory, all of which corresponds with the several USGS area and detail maps I have on file, as well as my state version of TOPO maps.

Perhaps if someone provided sketchy info herein your remarks would be warranted, but as it is, the remark appears to diminish the veracity of those who responded to this specific post.  That said, I agree Google maps is wrought with errors – according to Google my restaurant is in the middle of a municipal park 1½ miles from its actual location.  Multiple attempts to correct this error have not been effective.

Ed     

7:33 p.m. on August 25, 2012 (EDT)
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Dang!  He does stutter...


WMW: While at the Lone Pine Visitor Center yesterday, met a guy picking up a permit for North Fork Big Pine.  Told him about the over look below Cloud Peak.  "Really?", sez he.  He was going to go the other way.   Ah, well.  He has your 'feet on the ground' info - albeit second hand.

For normal ambling with the folks, I prefer a not too rehearsed plan.  It is more enjoyable to have some concern and en route discussion about if that trail or pass will work given the time we have. On riskier adventures, I'd rather have all the spades in my hand - but I still have to play the game.

I've yet to be lost. I have been unaware of exactly where I was a few times though. This past few weeks we had a great time on a long discontinued trail that was last indicated on a 1940's trail map.  We made 'pre'-way points and able to find the trail every time we thought we needed to know where we were.  Dang! They made trails steep back then.

Secor said that most of the pass information in his book were from others and he has not gone over but a good fraction of them. I appreciated the candor.  This came up after I was jibbing him about his designation of 2,3,4 class on some passes.  A complaint he admitted he has heard before.  He also mention that unless somebody documents a different viewpoint, then it is just hearsay - or I didn't follow the route (also usually not described well either).  But then that is what Summit Post is about.

And don't always believe proffered information. Check to see if his fingers are crossed. I recently told an acquaintance (who didn't want to trade anything of  similar value) that the way to a lake in Colorado (great fishing in early '60's) was to the left of a large prominent tree stump.  It was, obviously, the other way since he did not find the abandoned trail junction he was looking for.  So the lake continues to be a closely held 'secret'.  He still had a great time. 

I could have told him it was another day's worth of effort up the drainage...but didn't.


Good luck on your trip DM1333.  Not having the exact trail's location (you get an indication of what side of the creek to stay on in fairly obvious 9K' terrain) is not that big a deal in that shrubbery there.  Not a lot of *shudder* willows.

8:40 p.m. on August 25, 2012 (EDT)
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I'm not worried too much about not having the trails exact location since I'll be picking up the maps I need at the end of the week.  I just wanted to ask on here and got some good information and that great link that speacock provided.  I'm still debating doing an out and back vs. a lollypop.  Had I not been hurt during the spring and early summer I would be ready for the loop but I'm worried about my conditioning.  I would rather walk 6 or 7 miles a day and have fun on an out and back vs. having to hoof it for 10 or 12 miles a day and to have to push to get done in time.  I'm also not looking forward to lugging around a bear cannister, but oh well.  The extra weight will help me get in just a little bit better shape!

12:54 p.m. on August 26, 2012 (EDT)
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Bob Tanner has been in that country since 1948.  Packers make a living riding those trails.  You asked a question, and I am doing my best to help you.

November 29, 2014
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