Gov't Shutdown: National Park Closing

8:33 a.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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Has anyone's plans been affected by this?

Technically parks are closed.  http://www.doi.gov/shutdown/fy2014/upload/NPS-FAQ.pdf  The FAQ gives a little info but nothing specific.  I would guess AT thru-hikers will continue without problems, but here's my questions:

Won't people still go there and hike and camp?  What's the penalty?  Will they ticket your car if it's parked at a trail-head?  Is there a penalty if they catch you hiking around or camping out there?  Just curious, I would have liked to get out to GSMNP one weekend to see the leaves change.  Maybe not this year.

I'm asking because it's public property and I've poured lots of hard-earned tax dollars into supporting it and so have most of you; so I'm curious about how people respond to the parks being closed.

 

8:48 a.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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We've been discussing that topic here: http://www.trailspace.com/forums/backcountry/topics/151159.html#151253

Officially, the AT is closed to everyone for 700 miles through Shenandoah N.P. and Great Smoky Mountains N.P. There won't be any Northbound thru-hikers that far south this time of year (Mt. Katahdin closes on Oct. 15th). Southbounders will either have to give up their plans, bypass the parks, or ignore posted closings.

8:59 a.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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It could result in tickets, fines etc. And if you or anyone is hurt and SAR or LE gets hurt trying to bail anyone out, more charges could result. Things like negligent endangerment etc. There are plenty of state lands. I don't like it, but this government cuts where people get hurt the most.

9:18 a.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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G00SE said:

We've been discussing that topic here: http://www.trailspace.com/forums/backcountry/topics/151159.html#151253

Officially, the AT is closed to everyone for 700 miles through Shenandoah N.P. and Great Smoky Mountains N.P. There won't be any Northbound thru-hikers that far south this time of year (Mt. Katahdin closes on Oct. 15th). Southbounders will either have to give up their plans, bypass the parks, or ignore posted closings.

 

Thanks for the link.

Sorry, I searched but didn't see it.  I was a little surprised there was no discussion.

12:31 p.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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Look on the bright side, no one to check to see if you bought the necessary permits.  Just sayin'.

Yes, I'm a bad person, I know.

1:59 p.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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My little brother was camped out in the backcountry in Glacier Natl Park yesterday and Rangers hunted him down and told him to get out!!  

2:36 p.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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Jason Ruff said:

My little brother was camped out in the backcountry in Glacier Natl Park yesterday and Rangers hunted him down and told him to get out!!  

 Did they offer what any consequences would be if he declined?

5:17 p.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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My brother didn't say giftogab.  I am sure he threw his stuff in his pack and rolled out of there without saying much, but that is a good question.  What are the consequences of refusal to comply???  

6:16 p.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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Well..here is what GaryPalmer said on the other thread:

Let me tell you from experience hiking without a permit. First offence I got 1 year probation and a week in jail. Second offence I got 3 years Supervised Probation, 3 year expulsion from all national parks and 2 weeks in jail. I hiked the Grand Canyon without a permit just after they started charging a fee for them in 2001. I was caught twice the first time, told to leave the park when I got to the trail head and had to turn myself in at the federal courthouse in Flagstaff 80 miles away, That was in 2002. and the second time they arrested me in the back country and took me to the rim and into jail. I went to federal court two weeks later after 13 days in jail, that was in March 2009, also in Flagstaff. I have not been back to the canyon since.

6:43 p.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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That is some serious business.  Jail time.  Wow!!

GaryPalmer's situation was different than what is going on now with the govt shutdown.  My brother was permitted to be there before the govt shutdown happened.  I am not sure what they would do if he refused to leave.  I am sure they could probably dream up something to arrest him but not sure he would be breaking any laws if he has a permit from the govt saying he is allowed to be there.  

7:19 p.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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Google this -- Washington Monument Syndrome. It helps to explain why. 

7:47 p.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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Jason Ruff said:

That is some serious business.  Jail time.  Wow!!

GaryPalmer's situation was different than what is going on now with the govt shutdown.  My brother was permitted to be there before the govt shutdown happened.  I am not sure what they would do if he refused to leave.  I am sure they could probably dream up something to arrest him but not sure he would be breaking any laws if he has a permit from the govt saying he is allowed to be there.  

 It seemed that those with permits were being allowed to complete in some stories. Again, it is LE so individual officers would act differently as well. But if he was just there legally and then the shut down occured he could be legitimatey told to leave and to ignore the order of the peace officer would be to break the law so he would find himself simmilarly situated with anyone having gone in illegally too.

7:55 p.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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Thats sone heavy fines Gary got.But Iam sure it could have been worst..I have 400 miles to play with..

7:01 p.m. on October 3, 2013 (EDT)
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Dream trips down Grand Canyon being shattered Some have waited 18 years for a chance to raft the Colorado River, but the government shutdown has ruined those plans; one trio has spent $40,000... see more at:

http://www.grindtv.com/outdoor/excursions/post/dream-trips-down-grand-canyon-being-shattered/

Also: Tourists kicked out of landmark US parks

http://news.yahoo.com/tourists-face-shutdown-deadline-leave-us-parks-175126117.html

8:03 p.m. on October 3, 2013 (EDT)
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That is all pretty bad, but trip insurance will save the 40k...if they don't HAVE trip insurance, they were foolish.

7:01 a.m. on October 4, 2013 (EDT)
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Yeah but the trip insurance won't replace the time they had to wait for their permit to come up. They may not be able to wait or want to wait again for a new trip.

8:20 a.m. on October 4, 2013 (EDT)
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GaryPalmer said:

Yeah but the trip insurance won't replace the time they had to wait for their permit to come up. They may not be able to wait or want to wait again for a new trip.

 And infinitely more frustrating because it is simply the result of political posturing.  These clowns we elected can't come up with a budget without having to raise the debt ceiling.  I know I have to live within a budget and I bet you do to, but not the political elite.  And when they don't get their way, they abuse the power we gave them to try and manipulate us instead of acting like the public servants they all promise to be.

While I agree that trip insurance would help, it doesn't address the real problem. 

11:02 a.m. on October 4, 2013 (EDT)
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At 40k I would hike the Himalaya's for a month..That would be worth it to me..

11:08 a.m. on October 4, 2013 (EDT)
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I just mentioned on the other thread:

The shutdown is a terrible thing for all of us. Let's keep this thread focused on the effects it will have on the public lands we all love, and on suggestions for places to explore that aren't closed.

The shutdown is a total mess. It's beyond the scope of this forum to debate whose fault it is. I'm guessing most people reading this forum are looking for simple information: "What's closed? What's open? How do I get into the backcountry without getting fined?"

11:41 a.m. on October 4, 2013 (EDT)
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Highway 410, which runs through Rainier NP is open but if you park on the road and hike a trail off of it you're a criminal.  I think its just to upset the public so much that they'll pressure lawmakers to play nice and get along. 

"We'll show them, we'll keep the pork projects running and shut down all the popular stuff."

11:47 a.m. on October 4, 2013 (EDT)
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Gary,

Your experiences are unbelievable and very enlightening. Thanks for sharing.

Bob Dylan said: "To live outside the law, you must be honest."

7:12 a.m. on October 5, 2013 (EDT)
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I have been honest but it has not always helped. I spent 20 years hiking the Grand Canyon and had been living on a food budget of $150 a month, when they started charging $5 a night for permits I stopped getting them and continued to hike. I could/would not afford the extra $150 a month to hike on the new permit system. I did month long hikes from October to April every year 1983-2003. Yeah, I stayed in the canyon every fall, winter and spring for 20 years. I hiked without permits from 2001 (when they started the fee permits) to 2003 and did 27 multi-week hikes all over the canyon before I was caught two different times without a permit. They were my last hikes in the canyon with the last being January 3rd 2003, after getting 3 year supervised probation and expelled from the GC and all parks I have not been back to the GC. But I may next winter 2014-15 when I have the funds to make food and permit funds both. I do continue to hike other parks tho. 

6:01 p.m. on October 5, 2013 (EDT)
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There is talk here that Zion may reopen as so many tourists have been complaining. I hope so. our business has really been hurt by Zion being closed this past week. 75% of our business comes from bus tours of German,Asian and French bus tourists coming thru on their way to Zion, Bryce and the Grand Canyon/Lake Powell areas.

12:29 a.m. on October 12, 2013 (EDT)
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Grand Teton is shutdown. Hwy 89 OPEN, but as ridiculous as it sounds the majority of the pull-offs are closed. The gates are closed preventing access to the park road. Only one I've seen open is the Snake River Overlook (Ansel).  Antelope Flatts to Mormon row, closed. Moose-Wilson Rd, closed.

Amid the chaos, the mountains still stand together in all their majesty, even though our representatives can't seem to find a way to.


JH-Tetons-CLOSED.jpg
 

July 22, 2014
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