Re: using tarp under tent in winter necessary?

kutenay asked me

Quote:

BTW, did you ever set up one of those North Face Pole Sleeve Oval tents????? Now, THERE was an exercise in self-torture!

Do you mean the "geodesic dome" type? Sorry to take so long in answering, but I guess I didn't read all the way through to the question. Answer, if it is the giant dome type, is yes, and I did it all by myself. It was part of a contest. You were supposed to be a team of 2, but as a challenge, I did it solo. I done purdy gut, too, only 50% longer than the fastest team - 12m18s vs 6m32s. I have seen expedition crews take 45 minutes to set them up. But they do stand up to the winds, and they do allow a bunch of folks inside. By contrast, setting up a Bibler Eldorado (similar to the ID Mk 3 with the 2nd door) takes 5 min, including all stakes and guys doing it casually (or under 2 min when rushing to beat the incoming thunderstorm). Of course, the great thing about both the Bibler I-tent and Eldorado and the ID Mk 1 and Mk 3 is the internal poles, so you just pull it from the stuff sack, stake the corners, climb inside with your pack, and put the poles in place out of the storm. Bivy sacks are even faster, of course - just pull it out of the stuff sack and pull it on - 10-15 sec, but do take your crampons off first.