AT Closed???

8:30 a.m. on October 1, 2013 (EDT)
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First, for some reason the Whiteblaze discussion board is down right now.

Other sites are reporting that the National Park Service is closing access to all trails within their park systems. I specifically saw on Shenandoah National Park's FB page an announcement that they were not allowing hikers into the park. One comment stated the Park's Law Enforcement personal are considered "essential" and will be on hand to arrest trespassers.

Anyone actually know if this would apply to AT thru-hikers? I realize if you are a Northbound thru-hiker, the Shenandoah is a few weeks behind you, but Southbounders might be walking up to a closed park this morning.

If I were thru-hiking today, I'd go into stealth mode and get through the park as quickly and quietly as possible. I imagine most officials will be monitoring parking lots, buildings, and trail heads.

9:01 a.m. on October 1, 2013 (EDT)
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All I saw was that national parks are closed as a result of the shutdown.

9:41 a.m. on October 1, 2013 (EDT)
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You can still go to the Smokies and hike. Just have someone drop you off and go. Did the rangers go into the park and run out every backpacker..I doubt it. those folks are still out there. 

10:39 a.m. on October 1, 2013 (EDT)
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That's going to knock off most of our business at the Thunderbird Lodge I work for here in SW Utah. 90% of our business is tour buses taking the foreign tourist to the parks.

I am off today and going cycling and hiking to Kanab Creek.

10:51 a.m. on October 1, 2013 (EDT)
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Ewker,

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2013/oct/01/smokies-in-process-of-closing-down-notifying/

Hope the link works....the newspaper here charges for website access now. This does make me wonder what happens to all the Smokies backpackers that have already paid for permits...

10:53 a.m. on October 1, 2013 (EDT)
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They will be closing access roads. Although it's a big park and locals know a dozen places to get in without using a common entry.

 

Hmmm, this might be the best time to go.

11:25 a.m. on October 1, 2013 (EDT)
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Patman, the link worked. I know a guy who had a permit for this weekend. he posted that he got a notice that the park is closed. I can see the rangers running folks out of the front country campgrounds but no way to run out the backpackers already in the park. 

Even the permit site has been shut down

11:58 a.m. on October 1, 2013 (EDT)
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Great questions!

We've published a few articles on this in general:

http://www.trailspace.com/articles/2011/04/09/shutdown-averted.html

http://www.trailspace.com/articles/2011/03/08/government-shutdown.html

ATC has news about this too:

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/who-we-are/news/2013/10/01/government-shutdown-limits-access-and-use-of-appalachian-trail-by-hikers-and-volunteers

Essentially "The Appalachian Trail is now officially closed across the approximately 700 miles managed by the National Park Service."

What does this mean? If there is a gate, it will probably be locked. Permits will likely not be issued. Issued permits may be canceled. Developed facilities (bathrooms, campground, concessions) will likely be closed. Rangers might be posted to turn away hikers at parks with limited access points (like Shenandoah). If you're deep in the backcountry, it's doubtful that they will send in someone to extract you.

Of course, they can't wrap an entire park in "closed" tape, meaning that backcountry access to some parks will remain possible, but illegal.

During the shutdown, I'd encourage people to explore trails on state lands, state parks, county parks, etc.

This will be particularly interesting for my friends in DC. Any green space there is technically a National Park, making many of my favorite neighborhood running trails officially closed!

12:14 p.m. on October 1, 2013 (EDT)
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I read that river rafters in the Grand Canyon already on float trips will be allowed to continue. Be kinda hard in that remote place to stop them. Only two places between Lees Ferry and Diamond Creek to stop them (Phantom Ranch and Havasupai) Even then the rafts would be too big to pack out.

And backpackers already in the back country. What will the park service do track them down and tell them to leave the parks asap or now?

I was in the Grand Canyon when 9/11 happened. I remember wondering why the helicopters and airplane tours had stopped and no jet trails were visible for many days. I was in the canyon 3 weeks (started 3 days before the Trade Towers were hit) and saw few others and never knew 9/11 happened till later when I was out of the canyon.

How long did the last government shut down last? 1996?

12:23 p.m. on October 1, 2013 (EDT)
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How can a trail be closed?

12:39 p.m. on October 1, 2013 (EDT)
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If your a Southbounder outside Shanandoah your in limbo..I know 2 backpackers coming up on the Smokies that are southbound..I hope they keep going..

1:00 p.m. on October 1, 2013 (EDT)
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And backpackers already in the back country. What will the park service do track them down and tell them to leave the parks asap or now?

From interviews I've conducted with NPS officials in the past - responses indicate that they will not be sending in teams to scour the backcountry.

How can a trail be closed?

It can't really. Trails pass through different swaths of land with different designations managed by different agencies, states and individuals. Many of these designations overlap too!  For example, in West Virgina, the same dirt path is the Appalachian National Scenic Trail, Harpers Ferry National Historic Park, the C&O Canal National Park, a National Recreation Trail and the Potomac Heritage National Scenic Trail. It boggles the mind! Segments of trails that cross areas designated closed will themselves be considered closed.  Different government agencies will implement different measures to "close" these trails - ranging from signs, caution tape, and fences to gates and posted rangers.

Bottom line: It's easier to enjoy non-federal lands and waters during the shutdown.

2:03 p.m. on October 1, 2013 (EDT)
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Insane.. I understand National Parks not being "essential" but to think that its illegal to walk certain trails.. What has this country come to?

2:45 p.m. on October 1, 2013 (EDT)
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sorry to be a killjoy with this.  i recognize that everyone makes their own decisions.

I wouldn't advocate hiking on trails that the park service has publicly said are closed.  By definition, your presence on those trails and in those parks is contrary to express public statements that you must stay out.

in the unlikely event you run into a problem during this shutdown, you would probably experience a serious delay in getting rescued and potentially place understaffed SAR personnel at increased risk.  And substantially enhance the likelihood that the government would pursue you for the costs of that rescue if your state law authorizes that.  most rescue cost recovery laws require some negligent or reckless intent on the part of the hiker; being there during a closure would very likely satisfy either standard of intent.

4:30 p.m. on October 1, 2013 (EDT)
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Being a scoflaw can backfire. Pretty hard. Fines, etc. If you have to move a gate or barrier, that can result in additional charges. There is plenty to do outside Federal land in the shortrun. Don't expose SAR and understaffed LE to potential problems that may occur. Pretty please.

8:45 p.m. on October 1, 2013 (EDT)
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I'm just referring to a southbound thru-hiker having to choose between going forward or ending their dreams.

I'm on a 10-year savings plan to hike the AT. As it looks now, I will have to quit my job to do it, because they don't allow for extended leaves. If this were today, and I was on the trail, there is no way this would stop me.

Keep in mind, no law has been passed to close National Parks. The government has been shut down by (stupid) lawmakers at an impass.

2:52 a.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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My husband and I have been planning a fall hike for weeks. Then the weather changed as fall fell with a vengence, and we held our breath the weather would break. Well it did , but our three day hike on Rainier is now shuttered. I can hardly wrap my mind around such a thing. How many of us love to be out this time of year??

I can genuinely say I can barely fathom this latest move...

7:07 a.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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A NY friend will be out here next week and we were going to hike the whole 14 mile West Rim Trail in Zion in one long day. Now we will do either the Parunuweap Canyon where the East Fork of the Virgin River flows thru whats also referred to as the Little Brother of the Virgin Narrows and or I will take him to Red Cave a short narrow canyon a couple miles east of where I work. The Parunuweap starts a 1/2 mile south of where I work.

9:02 a.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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G00SE said:

I'm just referring to a southbound thru-hiker having to choose between going forward or ending their dreams.

I'm on a 10-year savings plan to hike the AT. As it looks now, I will have to quit my job to do it, because they don't allow for extended leaves. If this were today, and I was on the trail, there is no way this would stop me.

Keep in mind, no law has been passed to close National Parks. The government has been shut down by (stupid) lawmakers at an impass.

 Administrative law exists giving the government this authority. As a matter of fact, adminsitrative law controls a whole lot more in your lives than you would guess.

9:24 a.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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GOOSE - I hear you on the whole thru-hiker thing. Thru-hikers might be more motivated to defy closures than others, but the defiance isn't any less punishable.  As giftogab points out - regulations promulgated by agencies are law.

If I were thru-hiking right now, I'd take a zero, fix anything that needed to be fixed, and hitch or shuttle around the next park, continuing through lands managed by other agencies. To my knowledge, though no services are provided in National Forests, they are not formally closed. A vast quantity of the AT's federal lands are National Forests - most of Virgina, for instance. I'd come back and hike the parks when they opened.

10:53 a.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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The less talked about this the better in my opinion.  If the Eisenhower Interstate System is still open, which is a govt entity, I'd say the forest trails are open. 

Beyond this, endlessly hashing out what's legal or what's not legal, what forests are open or not, etc, just stirs up the hornet's nest and overly parses the absurdity of current American life.  Just start walking.  But don't expect vehicle access. 

11:02 a.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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How's this for absurdity!

Couldn't that guard be standing in the Lincoln Memorial while people visit it?

lincoln-shutdown-580.jpeg

11:20 a.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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Stay away from any government lands with a gate and a pay dude and you should be fine.

11:24 a.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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Tipi Walter said:

The less talked about this the better in my opinion.  If the Eisenhower Interstate System is still open, which is a govt entity, I'd say the forest trails are open. 

Beyond this, endlessly hashing out what's legal or what's not legal, what forests are open or not, etc, just stirs up the hornet's nest and overly parses the absurdity of current American life.  Just start walking.  But don't expect vehicle access. 

 That is a good approach if you realize that not paying attention to it could result in a fine and you will have to pay it. So just start walking, but understand it could cost ya.

12:11 p.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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giftogab said:

Tipi Walter said:

The less talked about this the better in my opinion.  If the Eisenhower Interstate System is still open, which is a govt entity, I'd say the forest trails are open. 

Beyond this, endlessly hashing out what's legal or what's not legal, what forests are open or not, etc, just stirs up the hornet's nest and overly parses the absurdity of current American life.  Just start walking.  But don't expect vehicle access. 

 That is a good approach if you realize that not paying attention to it could result in a fine and you will have to pay it. So just start walking, but understand it could cost ya.

 you keep saying it could result in a fine or a ticket. Is this your opinion or did you read it some place. If so supply a link. So far I haven't seen anything mentioned about that

12:21 p.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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I did find this

"A look at what is bound to happen, and what probably won't:

THIS: Washington's paralysis will be felt early on in distant lands as well as in the capital — namely, at national parks. All park services will close. Campers have 48 hours to leave their sites. Many parks, such as Yellowstone, will close to traffic, and some will become completely inaccessible. Smithsonian museums in Washington will close and so will the zoo, where panda cams record every twitch and cuddle of the panda cub born Aug. 23 but are to be turned off in the first day of a shutdown.

The Statue of Liberty in New York, the loop road at Acadia National Park in Maine, Skyline Drive in Virginia, and Philadelphia's Independence National Historical Park, home of Independence Hall and the Liberty Bell, will be off limits. At Grand Canyon National Park, people will be turned back from entrance gates and overlooks will be cordoned off along a state road inside the park that will remain open.

"People who waited a year to get a reservation to go to the bottom of the Grand Canyon all of a sudden will find themselves without an opportunity to take that trip," said Mike Litterst, a spokesman for the National Park Service.

BUT NOT THIS: At some parks, where access is not controlled by gates or entrance stations, people can continue to drive, bike and hike. People won't be shooed off the Appalachian Trail, for example, and parks with highways running through them, like the Great Smoky Mountains, also are likely to be accessible. Officials won't scour the entire 1.2 million-acre Grand Canyon park looking for people; those already hiking or camping in the backcountry and on rafting trips on the Colorado River will be able to complete their trips. The care and feeding of the National Zoo's animals will all go on as usual.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/government-shutdown-changes-97618.html#ixzz2gaA8qLv5

12:44 p.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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I wonder who is going to write the ticket?  Aren't they all on furlough?  I'm only half joking when I ask that.

What a great time to go play in the hills without having to worry about those pesky permits!

No more long waits or lotteries, no one minding the shop, just go. 

I guess I should not be advocating trespassing but I just think its weird to close something like a mountain or canyon.  Its mine anyway, well all of ours really, and no one will ever be able to tell I was there (no I don't advocate this at some place like the Statue of Liberty, that's kinda different).  If the permit has been the limiting factor in your not going on a trip someplace beautiful I think now might be a great time to go. 

Funny for me to think this way, I used to be a police officer.  I guess its the libertarian in me (a very small one) speaking.

1:19 p.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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Ewker said:

giftogab said:

Tipi Walter said:

The less talked about this the better in my opinion.  If the Eisenhower Interstate System is still open, which is a govt entity, I'd say the forest trails are open. 

Beyond this, endlessly hashing out what's legal or what's not legal, what forests are open or not, etc, just stirs up the hornet's nest and overly parses the absurdity of current American life.  Just start walking.  But don't expect vehicle access. 

 That is a good approach if you realize that not paying attention to it could result in a fine and you will have to pay it. So just start walking, but understand it could cost ya.

 you keep saying it could result in a fine or a ticket. Is this your opinion or did you read it some place. If so supply a link. So far I haven't seen anything mentioned about that

 As a lawyer, and more sepcifically a prosecutor,  it is my job to know how the law works. Here is one piece of language from the regulations:

(1) Engaging in an activity subject  to a permit requirement imposed pursuant to this section without obtaining  a permit; or Fine $50.00.

It is hard to find the language for much of this because so many sites are closed on the net, but here is the Code of Federal Regulation Language:

Entering closed areas is a violation of 36 CFR 1.5.

(f) Violating a closure, designation, use or activity restriction or condition, schedule of visiting hours, or public use limit is prohibited.

When the CFR is violated, citations can be issued. http://www.doi.gov/index.cfm is one helpful site with the CFR. I have seen prosecution of all sorts of CFR's. Citiations are often issued by the park police. Things that are common are feeding animals, impropper food storage, entering with prohibited vehicles, entering when the area is closed for things like forest fires, shut downs, DUI of boats and skidoos.

1:36 p.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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I was on whiteblaze yesterday..Seems their were SOBO'd and one NOBO believe that.Were at SNP and the rangers arn't kicking thm out.The only ones who were told to leave were the ones camped near a wayside..So the Park Rangers aren't chaseing them out..This came from Sobo's who posted..

1:36 p.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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giftofgab, you seemed to have missed my post above.

 At some parks, where access is not controlled by gates or entrance stations, people can continue to drive, bike and hike. People won't be shooed off the Appalachian Trail, for example, and parks with highways running through them, like the Great Smoky Mountains, also are likely to be accessible. Officials won't scour the entire 1.2 million-acre Grand Canyon park looking for people; those already hiking or camping in the backcountry and on rafting trips on the Colorado River will be able to complete their trips.

1:43 p.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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Ewker said:

giftofgab, you seemed to have missed my post above.

 At some parks, where access is not controlled by gates or entrance stations, people can continue to drive, bike and hike. People won't be shooed off the Appalachian Trail, for example, and parks with highways running through them, like the Great Smoky Mountains, also are likely to be accessible. Officials won't scour the entire 1.2 million-acre Grand Canyon park looking for people; those already hiking or camping in the backcountry and on rafting trips on the Colorado River will be able to complete their trips.

 I certainly wouldn't imply that storm troopers would be dispatched to cleans the parks of all the rif raf. I just want to point out that they can issue citations and there are risks in deciding to go against the law. It is complicated when you ahve multiple agencies and entrence points. But ignorance wont be an excusse if something goes wrong and resources are then called upon to extract a person. I imagine, just as in any LE agency, there will be those officers who ignore things and those who are, as we say, badge heavy. I guess it is my hoe that though we don't like what is happening, we have more respect for things than Congress/Administration does.

1:50 p.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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Lots of good info here!

I wonder who is going to write the ticket?  Aren't they all on furlough?  I'm only half joking when I ask that.

One of the sadder aspects of the shutdown is the arbitrary classification of responsibilities.  Keeping trails open - non-essential and hence, not funded. Keeping people off closed trails - essential - and so a lone ranger is assigned to stand guard at a gate and patiently explain that the park is closed.

Ewker and giftogab are both correct. Not all parks forbid all access, but, accessing a park that forbids it is a violation of law. Some parks will permit some levels of access. Pretty complicated - but a simple rule of thumb is: If you want to avoid potential legal and administrative hassles, avoid National Parks.  If you don't want to avoid National Parks, check that specific Park to determine what level of access is permitted.

Here's some news about how the shutdown is affecting the Pacific Crest Trail: http://www.pcta.org/2013/how-the-federal-government-shutdown-impacts-the-pct-14684/

9:02 p.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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The National Park Service even closed down a PRIVATELY FUNDED and PRIVATELY STAFFED National Park that has not received any funding from the government since 1980.

LINK = http://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortneyobrien/2013/10/02/national-park-service-now-closing-parks-that-receive-no-federal-aid-n1715200

The NPS actually sent park rangers to a park that they do not staff to tell the VOLUNTEER STAFF and the PRIVATELY FUNDED STAFF to leave. Then the NPS set up barricades to keep people out.

In every prior government shutdown this park has been exempt because they receive ZERO government funding.

So here we have a situation where there is no money to pay for rangers but they send them somewhere that they don't ever go to, paying the rangers despite the lack of funds, to close down what they don't even fund. Oh, and they threatened to arrest visitors who might show up to the privately funded park.

WTF!

9:46 p.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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This has turned into a political battle--same as closing White House tours in the name of the "Sequester." Administration officials are trying to win the battle of public opinion by causing voters to "feel" the pain as quickly as possible. Total crap!

I use to "preach" that you show your leaders respect and honor, even if you disagree with their decisions and policies. Now, I see a bunch of Washington elitists who should be stripped of their citizenship and sent to Guantanamo Bay.

9:59 p.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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This has turned into a political battle--same as closing White House tours in the name of the "Sequester." Administration officials are trying to win the battle of public opinion by causing voters to "feel" the pain as quickly as possible. Total crap!

I use to "preach" that you show your leaders respect and honor, even if you disagree with their decisions and policies. Now, I see a bunch of Washington elitists who should be stripped of their citizenship and sent to Guantanamo Bay.

 

AMEN

imaginarymoney.png

10:02 p.m. on October 2, 2013 (EDT)
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The shutdown is a terrible thing for all of us. Let's keep this thread focused on the effects it will have on the public lands we all love, and on suggestions for places to explore that aren't closed.

Here's one idea. In New England, a group (full disclosure: I'm on their board) has created a new trail that continues north from Mt. Katahdin.  It's called the International Appalachian Trail, and it traverses mostly state and private lands, so the full length is open: http://www.internationalatmaine.org/

2:09 a.m. on October 3, 2013 (EDT)
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We were first tld Red Rock was closed. But all that was closed was the vistor center and booths. So trails are available. I didn't quite get how that helps...other than no fees if no booths open...but no cars coming in either. But it is a Conservation Area so those are ot covered by NPS they are BLM. I went to several web sites to find individual policies, only to find park sites closed due to shut down...I guess paying for the website is cheaper when they put a WEB SIRE CLOSED up instead of the web content? Or maybe it is just they don't want people reading the usual info and thinking things are open.

8:07 a.m. on October 3, 2013 (EDT)
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. . . I went to several web sites to find individual policies, only to find park sites closed due to shut down...I guess paying for the website is cheaper when they put a WEB SIRE CLOSED up instead of the web content? Or maybe it is just they don't want people reading the usual info and thinking things are open.

 

Or most likely they are just making a political circus out of this. Taking actions that actually cost money to show that they don't have the money.

9:43 a.m. on October 3, 2013 (EDT)
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http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2013/oct/01/impasse-continues/

This is the time of year when many southbound thru-hikers along the Appalachian Trail pass through the Smokies. During the government shutdown, those thru-hikers can complete the 70 miles of the A.T. through the park at their own pace, but they have to remain on the trail and not leave to resupply in Gatlinburg as many typically do.

 

Not sure how they can stop hikers from going into Gatlinburg or Cherokee to resupply. The road they would have to go on is open since it runs through the park. 

9:59 a.m. on October 3, 2013 (EDT)
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Interestingly, there are certain laws about prohibiting people from coming in a park or even charging them. Stems from a 9th circuit case out of AZ a couple years back. They were charging to go on the road IF you even stopped your car at all. Court said NO NO NO. Unless one or more of the 6 essentials listed in the law were used, they cannot be charged. I have waited to see if there was any impact by this case, but have not seen any yet.

12:12 p.m. on October 3, 2013 (EDT)
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Ewker said:

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2013/oct/01/impasse-continues/

This is the time of year when many southbound thru-hikers along the Appalachian Trail pass through the Smokies. During the government shutdown, those thru-hikers can complete the 70 miles of the A.T. through the park at their own pace, but they have to remain on the trail and not leave to resupply in Gatlinburg as many typically do.

 

Not sure how they can stop hikers from going into Gatlinburg or Cherokee to resupply. The road they would have to go on is open since it runs through the park. 

 You think they'll keep them out of the smokies? They letting them through Shenandoah.Thats what I herd from SOBO's who've posted..

4:43 p.m. on October 3, 2013 (EDT)
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denis,

seems that story about SNP has changed per a post on White Blaze today. The rangers told the SOBO's they had to be out of the park by noon on Oct 1 or get charged for trespassing

4:49 p.m. on October 3, 2013 (EDT)
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This was posted earlier today concerning the USFS

The USFS has been directed to close even those parks that are privately managed under contract, and use absolutely no public money. Draw your own conclusions as to the motivation for this.


Its Official: US Forest Service Closing over 1000 Privately-Funded Parks

October 2, 2013, 5:36 pm 
The US Forest Service, under pressure apparently from the White House, has reversed both its historical precedent as well as its position yesterday and will close over 1000 public parks and campgrounds that are operated by private companies without using one dime of public money. Why does the fact that our landlord the US Forest Service is going on an unpaid vacation mean that tenants of theirs have to close up shop too? We have no idea.

 


This is how I explained it in my letter to my senators:My company, based in North Phoenix, operates over 100 US Forest Service campgrounds and day use areas under concession contract. Yesterday, as in all past government shutdowns, the Department of Agriculture and US Forest Service confirmed we would stay open during the government shutdown. This makes total sense, since our operations are self-sufficient (we are fully funded by user fees at the gate), we get no federal funds, we employ no government workers on these sites, and we actually pay rent into the Treasury.
However, today, we have been told by senior member of the US Forest Service and Department of Agriculture that people “above the department”, which I presume means the White House, plan to order the Forest Service to needlessly and illegally close all private operations. I can only assume their intention is to artificially increase the cost of the shutdown as some sort of political ploy.
The point of the shutdown is to close non-essential operations that require Federal money and manpower to stay open. So why is the White House closing private operations that require no government money to keep open and actually pay a percentage of their gate revenues back to the Treasury? We are a tenant of the US Forest Service, and a tenant does not have to close his business just because his landlord goes on a vacation.

5:38 p.m. on October 3, 2013 (EDT)
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Anyone who doesn't draw the conclusion that Obama is playing politics and intentionally hurting the citizens of this nation has their head in the sand.

There is no question that BOTH sides are at fault, but it would be hard to come up with even a short list of Presidents who are more spiteful and more divisive than this one. He came into office with such optimism for this nation and has, through utter incompetence destroyed our economy, devalued our dollar, raised the cost of our already high cost healthcare, unimaginably damaged our influence on the world stage to levels well below what G.W.Bush had done and has clearly divided this nation.

Parks and trails that were never affected in prior shutdowns are closed in this one. Monuments that are open spaces and accessible 24/7/365 have been fenced off and now have guards posted!?! Oh, but the President's private golf course is still open! Seriously, wtf?

7:02 p.m. on October 3, 2013 (EDT)
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Seth said:

Let's keep this thread focused on the effects it will have on the public lands we all love, and on suggestions for places to explore that aren't closed.

Agreed. Not much point in getting into a political debate here. There are two sides to every issue, but if you guys get into whose fault the shutdown is, this could just degenerate into something nasty that will leave nothing but hard feelings.

Instead, maybe we could identify alternate places to go so we can all keep doing what we love. I'd hope we have more in common than the politics that can divide us. 

7:08 a.m. on October 4, 2013 (EDT)
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Plenty of wilderness areas to go to. And places around the parks in areas that are just as nice. I have a friend coming out and we were going to hike Zion now we will be doing the Parunuweap/Barracks

http://www.citrusmilo.com/zionguide/barracks.cfm

Check out the images/pictures section at the link above, top of page right. Its a beautiful canyon often referred to as the Little Brother of the Zion Narrows. I am surprised it was never added to Zion park. Its just 6 1/2 miles from where I live here in SW Utah.

10:39 a.m. on October 4, 2013 (EDT)
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Ewker

We must be watching the same thread caught that after you told me their getting everybody out of SNP now..I wonder how many SOBO are going to bypass the GSMNP to finish the trail..

10:59 a.m. on October 4, 2013 (EDT)
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I'm headed out to explore some Maine state parks this weekend. However, I'm in DC next week. Because of the District's unique legal status, most of the green space in town is all managed by NPS.  One of the only things that keep me sane on my DC trips is a trail run through a little canyon north of town - rock creek park.  Fingers crossed I'll be able to get a run in!

I've been talking to a lot of friends who work for National Scenic Trails lately.  The shutdown is having some surprisingly negative effects on them.  For instance, on the North Country Trail, the program that gives their volunteers workers comp insurance is run by NPS.  No NPS, no insurance, no insurance and the Trail can't afford the potential liability of their volunteers getting hurt, effectively shutting down maintenance for the entire trail - not just the portions on NPS lands.

Let's hope this is over soon!

12:11 p.m. on October 4, 2013 (EDT)
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denis daly said:

Ewker

We must be watching the same thread caught that after you told me their getting everybody out of SNP now..I wonder how many SOBO are going to bypass the GSMNP to finish the trail..

 denis,

according to this the SOBO's can hike on the AT in the Smokies

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2013/oct/01/impasse-continues/

but  the statement below is a joke:

This is the time of year when many southbound thru-hikers along the Appalachian Trail pass through the Smokies. During the government shutdown, those thru-hikers can complete the 70 miles of the A.T. through the park at their own pace, but they have to remain on the trail and not leave to resupply in Gatlinburg as many typically do...

 

really???  They can hike the trail but can't walk or hitchhike on the road that is open since it is a state hwy

 

 

2:39 p.m. on October 4, 2013 (EDT)
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really???  They can hike the trail but can't walk or hitchhike on the road that is open since it is a state hwy

I know I would be hitching if I had to do a resupply if its a state Highway..They can't close that off..Hopefully they learn something from this and enact some safegaurds that do not prevent the Kaos they have..

7:04 p.m. on October 4, 2013 (EDT)
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Seth: the only part of rock creek park that is really closed is the bathrooms.

Jog with tp.

7:54 p.m. on October 4, 2013 (EDT)
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giftogab said:

Being a scoflaw can backfire. Pretty hard. Fines, etc. If you have to move a gate or barrier, that can result in additional charges. There is plenty to do outside Federal land in the shortrun. Don't expose SAR and understaffed LE to potential problems that may occur. Pretty please.

 I agree, there are lots of wilderness opportunities out there besides federal land. If the park is closed then it is closed - I think it would be most helpful to the Rangers, park staff (if any left), LEO, SAR, and so on, if we just cooperate with their efforts right now.

"....ask what you can do for your country."

JFK

Take your differences up with your elected reps. I won't venture into these areas and create problems right now, just my .02

September 30, 2014
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