Bear spray vs Pepper spray

2:22 a.m. on April 14, 2017 (EDT)
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 I live around farms and woods and there are lots of wild dogs running around (and also neighbors' attack dogs get loose often). My younger sister was getting chased by 2 giant dogs while jogging the other day and I'm thinking of getting a spray. I've read that bear spray works great against big sized dogs(180lb dogs). How would you compare bear spray vs pepper spray? in my understanding, bear spray is usually 1% OC while pepper spray could be as high as 18% OC which makes pepper spray a lot stronger against big dogs(180 lbs). And would spray work 100% of the times against giant dogs as long as I aim it right and use it right?

P.S. my brother also has some 27inch sword with a sharp endpoint. would swinging it be a good defense technique against big dogs such as 180lb attack dogs?

6:58 a.m. on April 14, 2017 (EDT)
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The sword is definitely a bad idea in that if she did make contact it's probably gonna stick the the other dogs will get her besides that she would only be able to swing it so long before she tires out. Plus it's probably Illegal to carry in most places so that she now becomes the criminal based on absurd laws that don't allow you to adequately defend yourself. In short the Dirty Harry method in useless when facing multiple attackers at close range a cannon is ok for a single but smaller is better because you can bring you defense back on line much quicker to face the other attackers. The recoil or the embedded implement renders you defenseless for precious moments where as with a lighter defense system you can keep going and wear them out.

as to the spray either one would probably be effective and leave the dogs with a lasting memory that they would probably not want to mess with again. Which one would be more effective, probably the bear spray because it's a bigger canister with a larger blast assuming the wind is blowing the correct directions at the instant of attack Read some of Jeosph renow'a posts or maybe it was Eric's for better info on sprays

In my case walking sticks have been very effective on numerous occasions and are lite enough to swing all day long.

one other option is the electric shock batons and hand held devices I gave one to an old girl friends mother and it worked for her pretty darn good even the noise scared the dogs, but she will need training with it cause it hurts pretty bad if you shock yourself 

or simpley in conjunction with one of these other methods call the police and make them aware of this situation hopefully and prayfully they will do their job and rid her of this problem 

best of luck

7:40 a.m. on April 14, 2017 (EDT)
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180 lb wild dogs?

9:19 a.m. on April 14, 2017 (EDT)
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I often dealt with aggressive dogs while biking.  One technique that worked quite well was to smile and say 'nice doggy!".  Critters usually had a very confused, bewildered look.  

 If bear spray works for bears, it certainly should work for dogs - no need to get into an arms race....

10:29 a.m. on April 14, 2017 (EDT)
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Find the most reliable person in the neighborhood that deals with dogs: The Mailman. You also won't see them swinging swords around like John Brown... :)

10:51 a.m. on April 14, 2017 (EDT)
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No-one knows more about dog attacks than postal carriers. You might wish to peruse https://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2007/html/pb22205/dogkit.3.21.html

Of note, "Effective­ness against trained attack dogs is not established." When a dog is trained to attack, its training may allow it to ignore the discomfort of any spray.

Running from the dogs will incite their prey drive. Turning and confronting them with a walking stick and a loud "No!" may, or may not, deter them. Too many variables. 

Good luck.

 

 

10:56 a.m. on April 14, 2017 (EDT)
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Hiking poles are a great defense for dogs. My Dad used to work in Puerto Rico and ran into feral dogs a lot. He used to hold out his aluminum notebook. A lot of times they would bite it and run away. If they were still aggressive he would take a lead horse whip like jockeys use out of his back pocket and pop them in the head. I carried the same dog knocker for my paper route as a kid.

A battery operated cattle prod also works well and is a deterrent for dog owners that never leash their dogs.

I usually carry a pistol in the bush for when all else fails. A warning shot is a great deterrent. If my life is threatened by two "180 pound dogs" I would not hesitate to shoot em.  I would try to notify the owners of the dogs what my plans are first.

I would submit that dogs kill more people in the US than bears, mtn lions and moose combined.

4:10 p.m. on April 14, 2017 (EDT)
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When I was a kid in upstate New York , my friends and I would get chased by dog as we rode our bikes to school. One day my mother made a 1/2 and 1/2 mix of ammonia and water in a squirt (water) gun. It worked great!

10:30 a.m. on April 19, 2017 (EDT)
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How about simply asking the owners of the bog dogs, to keep them leashed or so that they cannot chase her.

As I said before the dogs that chased us kids, I went to the old Man's house and asked him to do something about his dogs. Diplomacy goes a long way, But this old guy, I was 12, he told me to "Git Off My Property,Sonny!" I was like, sir  your dogs chase s every day we have to ride by. Can't you just stop them? He said son my dogs are deer hounds and they chase you cause you represent the deer they chase, you go zooming by and they head for the run.

So maybe talk to the dogs owners?

5:47 p.m. on May 13, 2017 (EDT)
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I have bear spray and have unholstered for bear encounters it in Yosemite 2 times but never used it.

Howsomever... I've considered using it if defiant squatters moved into the vacant house next to us. 

BTW, pepper spray and bear spray are all "PEPPER SPRAY" and the capsesium level (SCOVIL UNITS) are the key to knowing which is more potent. I'll bet bear spray has the highest Scovil count.

Eric B.

7:13 p.m. on May 13, 2017 (EDT)
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300winmag said:

I have bear spray and have unholstered for bear encounters it in Yosemite 2 times but never used it.

Howsomever... I've considered using it if defiant squatters moved into the vacant house next to us. 

BTW, pepper spray and bear spray are all "PEPPER SPRAY" and the capsesium level (SCOVIL UNITS) are the key to knowing which is more potent. I'll bet bear spray has the highest Scovil count.

Eric B.

 Hahahahaha let us know how effective it is with the squatters 

7:32 p.m. on May 13, 2017 (EDT)
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300winmag said:

I have bear spray and have unholstered for bear encounters it in Yosemite 2 times

 That's illegal. Bear spray is considered a weapon which is expressly prohibited in Yosemite:

Within Yosemite National Park, it is prohibited to possess or use pepper spray (including bear spray and other irritant gas devices)

8:30 p.m. on May 13, 2017 (EDT)
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JRinGeorgia said:

..Within Yosemite National Park, it is prohibited to possess or use pepper spray (including bear spray and other irritant gas devices)

Wasn't there legislation recently, that now allows carrying guns in the NPs.  I'd imagine spray would also be included.

Ed

1:32 a.m. on May 14, 2017 (EDT)
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Yes, but that specifically is about firearms. Bear spray and pepper spray are considered "other weapons" and are explicitly prohibited (along with blow darts, explosives, bow+arrow, etc). From the NPS Yosemite website: https://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/weapons.htm

And noted again here: https://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/scarebears.htm

That's been the rule for a long time now.

9:23 a.m. on August 5, 2017 (EDT)
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Animal spray is typically not as strong as pepper spray. Dogs and other animals have more sensitive senses of sight and smell, so it takes much less OC to affect them and stay safe. Bear spray typically can shoot farther than pepper spray and also often has a wider affected area. So, if you take a bear spray, be sure to use it! 

10:22 a.m. on August 5, 2017 (EDT)
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This is all you need.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007VHXO8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It's a smaller canister than bear spray and it shoots a cone instead of a stream.  

3:14 a.m. on August 6, 2017 (EDT)
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John.  So let me get this straight.  Your coming to a backpacking forum to ask people here what would work better, bear spray of pepper spray because you sister is being chased by big giant dogs that may weigh upwards of 180lbs?

Where in the world do you live?

Ok,  Where I live out in rural Western WA I live on the border of farms, state land in the middle of 2.5, 5. 7.5 and 10+ acre properties.  I raise sheep and have had dog problems, dogs digging under my fence which entirely encloses my property.

Here were I live we have these governmental organizations that are designed to tackle issues such as this.  The are run by the county and are called the police, the sheriff, the state patrol,  Code enforcement and last, but most certainly not least, Animal control.  Do you have those organizations and folks where you live?

Now, I'm not trying to dissuade you from trying to protect your sister and all of the other people around you with bear or pepper spray, but this is most certainly not the place to start.  Though this may be a tool that ends up aiding you.

First I would determine if you are able to talk to your neighbor who owns the dogs.  If the dogs are running loose off property that it would be really stupid idea to walk on to this persons property.  If you determine that you might be able to talk to this person do so by driving in an enclosed vehicle to this persons house and make sure you are not in any danger, at least by the dogs before getting out.  If you have a successful conversation with this person then either call or go and see animal control and have them make a report about what has transpired.

If that does not work go to every governmental agency that you can and have them make a report of your visit even if they direct you to see someone else.

Get a notebook and record anything and everything that happens in regards to these and or any other dogs that attack or act threatening.  In this log keep any and all conversations you have with anyone public and private for when these dogs final attack and injure or kill someone.  This will aid you when and if you have to go to court and when and if you demand that these people get ticketed and or your are forced to try and have their dogs removed.  Records, names, dates, times phone numbers and extensions and the entirety of what you talked about including what actions those who work for government agencies promise to do.  Make sure that any time you call any of these agencies that they follow thru with what they tell you they are going to do and get a report, a physical paper report.

Now, if you live in a area where large carnivores are threatening you it would be highly advisable to not take a firearms safety course and buy the proper arms to protect yourself.  I will not go into this any further here as this is a hiking/backpacking forum and talk of fire arms can get really testy here on Trailspace.

I think that the idea of carrying bear/pepper spray is a good idea in conjunction with other considerations but I'm thinking you have a lot more to worry about here than, "do I carry bear or pepper spray?" as it would suck to go looking for your sister when she did not show back up after a run and find her mauled or even dead right next to and empty can of spray.

Most people live in areas where they have local resources that are available for those who cannot follow the law and let their dogs run rampant throughout the community and allow their dogs to attack people.  That is just unacceptable.................. 

The last time this happened to me and I could not keep a neighbors dog of of my property and stop if from attacking my animals I had to shoot the dog..............and this was after I went and talked to the neighbor.

By the way, I would most certainly use bear spray............................the most powerful bear spray I could find.

3:18 a.m. on August 6, 2017 (EDT)
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JRinGeorgia said:

180 lb wild dogs?

My last 5 dogs were Mastiffs.  Mastiffs often get bigger than 200 lbs. Yes, 180 lbs dogs!  As I'm sure your aware, once a dog gets loose, they sometimes revert to a wild state, at which point one has a 180 lb. (wild) dog(s) chasing you down the street, over hill and over dale.

12:14 p.m. on August 6, 2017 (EDT)
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Once dogs form packs and start killing sheep or running deer to death we can consider them feral, imo. The collie that curls up at your feet in the evening, may have been killing a sheep the previous night. Dog packs will mob and maul humans.

A number of the Livestock Guard Dog (LGD) breeds will reach 180 lbs and most LGDs will appear, through their thick coats, to weigh that much. I had a Great Pyrenees that was about 120 lbs but people guessed 150. [Any large dog that is charging you adds 80 lbs in weight instantly. :) ]

Size doesn't matter that much. If dog, or a pack of dogs, can bring someone to the ground, a bite to the person's jugular is enough. It doesn't matter whether the bite is from a Cane Corso or a Pomeranian.

Dogs seem to be the deadliest animals to humans in North America. Here is some gruesome reading, though the lists aren't exhaustive -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States#Fatalities_reported_in_2015

9:23 a.m. on August 7, 2017 (EDT)
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Back in July I was circled by two pit mixes, attacked by one, fought her off, got a bite on my right bicep.  I didn't need stitches luckily.  Neither had tags.  No infection but I did take the full rabies vaccination, which sucks.  The dogs were eventually caught and euthanized.  The female showed no signs of being rabid.  I normally carry pepper spray or a knife.  But, it was the middle of the afternoon and I was walking in a nearby park that I know very well, so I left the spray at the house.  I'm 6 foot 190 and have no problems handling myself but these dogs did not care.  Had I carried my pepper spray that day, I wouldn't have ended up in that predicament.  

Now if you have a bat or raccoon problem, give me a call!  I'm immune.

2:00 p.m. on August 7, 2017 (EDT)
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I faced aggressive dogs during hikes multiple times, and trekking poles were always enough to deal with them. 

No doubt bear spray is effective too. 

4:54 p.m. on August 7, 2017 (EDT)
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I'm aware of 180 lb, and more, dogs. But purebreds, that are purposely bred for their size. Two houses ago the people I bought that house from had a gigantic Great Dane, which for all their size really aren't that heavy because they are very lean, but this one apparently was Shaquille O'Neal even among Great Danes and weighed 190, standing on its two hind legs with its front paws up against a wall its snout could reach nearly 7 feet. Kind of hilarious as this giant dog (small horse?) was afraid of its own shadow and because of its size could not walk down stairs. And while mastiffs can get to be that big the average for males is more like 140-150. Heck, even in Call of the Wild, Jack London made Buck only 140 pounds, and he was the biggest dog anywhere throughout the story and including packs of wolves.

But I've never heard of dogs that size running wild, and not just one but plural, multiples of dogs that size. Just seemed like a puffed-up claim about "wild" dogs, or possibly they were just "attack" dogs on the loose. From a first-time poster who hasn't been back since. How would he even know how much these dogs weighed, last he saw them they were chasing his sister. So I was skeptical of the OP's claim about what was chasing him and his sister, not questioning the existence of dogs that size anywhere.

Anyway, pepper spray will work on any of them. That and a call to Animal Control.

8:12 p.m. on August 7, 2017 (EDT)
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JRinGeorgia said:

I'm aware of 180 lb, and more, dogs. But purebreds, that are purposely bred for their size. Two houses ago the people I bought that house from had a gigantic Great Dane, which for all their size really aren't that heavy because they are very lean, but this one apparently was Shaquille O'Neal even among Great Danes and weighed 190, standing on its two hind legs with its front paws up against a wall its snout could reach nearly 7 feet. Kind of hilarious as this giant dog (small horse?) was afraid of its own shadow and because of its size could not walk down stairs. And while mastiffs can get to be that big the average for males is more like 140-150. Heck, even in Call of the Wild, Jack London made Buck only 140 pounds, and he was the biggest dog anywhere throughout the story and including packs of wolves.

But I've never heard of dogs that size running wild, and not just one but plural, multiples of dogs that size. Just seemed like a puffed-up claim about "wild" dogs, or possibly they were just "attack" dogs on the loose. From a first-time poster who hasn't been back since. How would he even know how much these dogs weighed, last he saw them they were chasing his sister. So I was skeptical of the OP's claim about what was chasing him and his sister, not questioning the existence of dogs that size anywhere.

Anyway, pepper spray will work on any of them. That and a call to Animal Control.

 So when I lived in Buena Vista Colorado I had a Male 170 lb old English mastiff and a 150 lb Male Neapolitan Mastiff that got our, because I left the gate open and they went over to a neighbors house and into their back yard.  So, the guy who owned the house was up on the roof and my dogs would not let him come down as they felt the owned the bottom of the ladder.  They also  would not let his wife come out side to see what was going on.  So the next thing I know I have the Sheriff and Animal Control guy at my house at which point the Sherriff explains to me if this happens again, and my dogs are threatening people he will shoot them and not even think twice about it.............and I did not blame him as I've been forced once to shoot a dog.  I was so, so very embarrassed but managed to talk my way out of a ticket and it never ever happened again.  But the fact is that if 180 dogs get out of the confines of someone's property then that is what happens, big doggies on the loose.  I had it happen just once and was so very glad on so many different levels that my dogs did not hurt anyone.

A friend of mine had a Old English Mastiff that got out in Greeley Colorado, ended up on the state highway and got hit by a car.  Destroyed the front end of the car, a Honda car, and killed the dog. 

11:53 a.m. on August 26, 2017 (EDT)
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The "Jogger Fogger" is IMO better than "pepper spray/mace" because it's not a narrow stream difficult to get into the perps eyes. With dogs and multiple dogs I'd go with Bearspray.

Bearpsray is a whole diffferent animal than normal self defense spray. Under greater pressure with a lot more range, and a LOT more of it. 

December 10, 2017
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