Multi-Fuel Stoves

I am in the market for a backpacking stove and have decided that for my purposes the benefit of flexibility with a multi-fuel stove surpasses the extra weight associated with them. It looks like the Optimus Nova and Primus Omni-Fuel are the leading contenders in this type of stove. They weigh about the same; the only real distinction between them seems to be that the Primus accepts canisters, but the Optimus does not. Other than that difference, are they equals? Are they both reliable? easy to maintain?
Thanks!
Goldog

The term "multifuel" is used in several different ways by the stove manufacturers. Many of MSR's stoves are multifuel in the sense that they will burn both white gas type fuels (white gas, auto gas) and kerosene (kerosene, diesel, JP4). I have burned many different fuels in my XGK with good results. Certainly the XFK, Whisperlite, and Dragonfly will burn both the light (white gas group) and heavy (kerosene family) fuels with success, but do require a swap of the jet). Primus has several stoves that are multifuel. Both their LFS (Liquid Fuel System) and MFS (MFS, Himalayan MFS, Omni) burn the light and heavy fuels, while the MFS group add the capability of burning compressed gas (butane mixes, the only stoves on the current market that can do this switch). The Primus stoves require a swap of jet between the heavy and light fuels. Optimus has had stoves for many years that were multifuel in the sense of burning heavy and light fuels. The Nova is unique in not requiring the same type of jet swap as other Optimus stoves or even other brands. Also, the Nova's "magnetic needle" cleaning is pretty unique and convenient. Coleman has several stoves they call multifuel, but in some cases this means that they burn white gas and autogas, while others (their International 600, for example) will swap between white gas and kerosene with a (very complex) swap of the generator tube.

I am not sure what you mean about the "extra weight." The Nova and the Primus multifuel stoves are about the same weight as the XGK and Whisperlite (within a few ounces when you count in pump and fuel cannister). Maybe you mean compared to compressed gas stoves. However, if you go on a long trip (a week or more, for example), the weight of all those cannisters you have to carry for the fuel (and carry out, please) makes the liquid fuel stoves very comparable in weight.

My current favorite stove is the Primus MFS (haven't gotten an Omni yet, but suspect it would become my favorite). The reason is the ability to use compressed gas as well as liquid fuels. I will note that on expeditions I generally use XGKs or occasionally Whisperlites. In terms of performance, the Nova, Primus group, XGK, and Whisperlite are very similar at high output (under 3 to about 3.5 min boil times, when well maintained) and in use in the field. All are easily field-maintainable, unlike the Colemans. The XGK is arguably the most rugged and most dependable. The Dragonfly, while it simmers reasonably, requires more maintenance (simmer valve tends to collect the lacquers from the fuel too fast). The Primus and Optimus Nova simmer passably. I haven't mentioned the Simmerlite, simply because I have not had a chance to use it in the field (or observe how it stands up to the loving ministrations of young scouts).

Wow, thanks for the great information. I am leaning toward the Primus Omni, due to its acceptance of canisters; yet, the Optimus Nova sounds appealing, partly due to the cleaning system. The first heavy use will be with Scouts at Philmont, although it will have multiple workouts during the several prep two-nighters we will have before heading to The Ranch.
Thanks,
Goldog

Quote:

The term "multifuel" is used in several different ways by the stove manufacturers. Many of MSR's stoves are multifuel in the sense that they will burn both white gas type fuels (white gas, auto gas) and kerosene (kerosene, diesel, JP4). I have burned many different fuels in my XGK with good results. Certainly the XFK, Whisperlite, and Dragonfly will burn both the light (white gas group) and heavy (kerosene family) fuels with success, but do require a swap of the jet). Primus has several stoves that are multifuel. Both their LFS (Liquid Fuel System) and MFS (MFS, Himalayan MFS, Omni) burn the light and heavy fuels, while the MFS group add the capability of burning compressed gas (butane mixes, the only stoves on the current market that can do this switch). The Primus stoves require a swap of jet between the heavy and light fuels. Optimus has had stoves for many years that were multifuel in the sense of burning heavy and light fuels. The Nova is unique in not requiring the same type of jet swap as other Optimus stoves or even other brands. Also, the Nova's "magnetic needle" cleaning is pretty unique and convenient. Coleman has several stoves they call multifuel, but in some cases this means that they burn white gas and autogas, while others (their International 600, for example) will swap between white gas and kerosene with a (very complex) swap of the generator tube.

I am not sure what you mean about the "extra weight." The Nova and the Primus multifuel stoves are about the same weight as the XGK and Whisperlite (within a few ounces when you count in pump and fuel cannister). Maybe you mean compared to compressed gas stoves. However, if you go on a long trip (a week or more, for example), the weight of all those cannisters you have to carry for the fuel (and carry out, please) makes the liquid fuel stoves very comparable in weight.

My current favorite stove is the Primus MFS (haven't gotten an Omni yet, but suspect it would become my favorite). The reason is the ability to use compressed gas as well as liquid fuels. I will note that on expeditions I generally use XGKs or occasionally Whisperlites. In terms of performance, the Nova, Primus group, XGK, and Whisperlite are very similar at high output (under 3 to about 3.5 min boil times, when well maintained) and in use in the field. All are easily field-maintainable, unlike the Colemans. The XGK is arguably the most rugged and most dependable. The Dragonfly, while it simmers reasonably, requires more maintenance (simmer valve tends to collect the lacquers from the fuel too fast). The Primus and Optimus Nova simmer passably. I haven't mentioned the Simmerlite, simply because I have not had a chance to use it in the field (or observe how it stands up to the loving ministrations of young scouts).

Quote:

..The first heavy use will be with Scouts at Philmont, although it will have multiple workouts during the several prep two-nighters we will have before heading to The Ranch.

Goldog -
Ummm, I suggest you have at least two very similar stoves (preferably identical) for Philmont. Based on my experience (the troop I was SM of and still work with a lot goes to Philmont in alternate years and Northern Tier the other years), Philmont is about as hard use as it gets. You will be heating a lot of water in 8 qt pots. Philmont issues the 8 qt pots as part of your cook kit, and I advise taking 2 of them. You will need the water for the large quantity of freezedry food they issue (don't want the youth waiting for their meals!). Backpacking stoves are not really made to use with that size pots of water. In fact, Coleman specifically warns against using that size pots on their backpacking stoves if you call their tech support people. It is a good idea to support the pot with a tripod or grill strong enough to take the weight. Also, the pots are large enough to reflect a lot of heat back downward, which is a serious problem for stoves with integral fuel tanks (like the Coleman Peak 1 series), and can be a problem if you forget to place the windshield properly even on detached tank stoves (XGK, Whisperlite, Omni, etc). I witnessed a pump getting melted out of a fuel tank due to heat reflected back to the fuel tank up on Denali, with rather spectacular results (no one hurt, fortunately).

Actually for Philmont, I would recommend the XGK over any of the other stoves. It has greater heat output (by a small margin, admittedly), and is more rugged for scout tender usage. The Omni (and my MFS) are excellent for use by experienced adults who will take good care of the stove, but the flexible fuel line is somewhat vulnerable to harsh handling (like a scout shoving the stove in his pack forcibly - I've seen several fuel lines develop leaks on even a week-long trek under such circumstances - a couple Whisperlites, a Dragonfly, an MFS, and one Optimus. It shouldn't happen, but after all, you as an adult on the Philmont expeditions are there only as an advisor. The youth are to be leading and running the trip (yeah, it's hard to keep one's mouth shut when you see the kids doing something dumb, but Philmont is pretty adamant in briefing the adult advisors that you use "Scoutmaster gloves" (you do know what that is, don't you?). Serious health and safety problems are the only times you are supposed to step in. Disciplinary problems are to be handled first by the scouts themselves. But of course, this means mistakes, and the occasional damaged gear - hence the advice to have at least two identical stoves (and a full overhaul kit). Even with a very small crew, you will often be cooking on two stoves at the same time.

Also, the fuel available at the backcountry camps is white gas. No compressed gas, no kerosene. When you get your fuel at Base Camp, get only enough for your next food drop, plus one spare day's worth (2 ounces per person per day is plenty). I assume you already know about the restrictions the airlines, Amtrak, and Greyhound have on transporting stoves, fuel bottles, and fuel (Philmont includes a note about this in their materials).

. . . I ordered the Omni about two hours ago! Well, maybe I can suggest/hope that my son is the one in charge of "our" new stove when we are at Philmont. If during our prep hikes it turns out that the Omni isn't the right stove, I may end up like some of the others on this forum and become a collector of backpacking stoves (there are plenty of worse things that I could/do spend my money on). Also, I like the idea of two+ identical stoves; that makes a lot of sense. We have already been advised of the transport restrictions, but most of us are driving out (about 1,000 miles, not counting detours).
As for the adults' role in the trip, we are already a strongly "boy-led" troop; admittedly, it's not always easy to maintain the proper role, but we Varmints do a pretty good job of it.
Again, thanks for sharing your expertise.
Goldog

Quote:

Quote:

..The first heavy use will be with Scouts at Philmont, although it will have multiple workouts during the several prep two-nighters we will have before heading to The Ranch.

Goldog -
Ummm, I suggest you have at least two very similar stoves (preferably identical) for Philmont. Based on my experience (the troop I was SM of and still work with a lot goes to Philmont in alternate years and Northern Tier the other years), Philmont is about as hard use as it gets. You will be heating a lot of water in 8 qt pots. Philmont issues the 8 qt pots as part of your cook kit, and I advise taking 2 of them. You will need the water for the large quantity of freezedry food they issue (don't want the youth waiting for their meals!). Backpacking stoves are not really made to use with that size pots of water. In fact, Coleman specifically warns against using that size pots on their backpacking stoves if you call their tech support people. It is a good idea to support the pot with a tripod or grill strong enough to take the weight. Also, the pots are large enough to reflect a lot of heat back downward, which is a serious problem for stoves with integral fuel tanks (like the Coleman Peak 1 series), and can be a problem if you forget to place the windshield properly even on detached tank stoves (XGK, Whisperlite, Omni, etc). I witnessed a pump getting melted out of a fuel tank due to heat reflected back to the fuel tank up on Denali, with rather spectacular results (no one hurt, fortunately).

Actually for Philmont, I would recommend the XGK over any of the other stoves. It has greater heat output (by a small margin, admittedly), and is more rugged for scout tender usage. The Omni (and my MFS) are excellent for use by experienced adults who will take good care of the stove, but the flexible fuel line is somewhat vulnerable to harsh handling (like a scout shoving the stove in his pack forcibly - I've seen several fuel lines develop leaks on even a week-long trek under such circumstances - a couple Whisperlites, a Dragonfly, an MFS, and one Optimus. It shouldn't happen, but after all, you as an adult on the Philmont expeditions are there only as an advisor. The youth are to be leading and running the trip (yeah, it's hard to keep one's mouth shut when you see the kids doing something dumb, but Philmont is pretty adamant in briefing the adult advisors that you use "Scoutmaster gloves" (you do know what that is, don't you?). Serious health and safety problems are the only times you are supposed to step in. Disciplinary problems are to be handled first by the scouts themselves. But of course, this means mistakes, and the occasional damaged gear - hence the advice to have at least two identical stoves (and a full overhaul kit). Even with a very small crew, you will often be cooking on two stoves at the same time.

Also, the fuel available at the backcountry camps is white gas. No compressed gas, no kerosene. When you get your fuel at Base Camp, get only enough for your next food drop, plus one spare day's worth (2 ounces per person per day is plenty). I assume you already know about the restrictions the airlines, Amtrak, and Greyhound have on transporting stoves, fuel bottles, and fuel (Philmont includes a note about this in their materials).