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Tom D - Nuptse

2:39 p.m. on November 30, 2003 (EST)
37 reviewer rep
747 forum posts

Tom,
I wanted to say something about your choice of coats on this group vs the "other group". (;->)

You mentioned a Nuptse for Yosemite in Winter. The Nuptse is heavy for the amount of warmth you get(like most TNF coats). I know the $199 price is attrcative BUT you will have to wear a good shell over it and you will have to wear a warm fleece jacket under it - partly because its sewn through not baffled and has a rip stop shell. If you add up a 20 oz fleece jacket - 25 ounce Nuptse and a 30 ounce shell - thats a lot of weight, not to mention cost. Of course you might want the layerabilty so you can wear the fleece under your shell while snow shoeing. I personally wear the fleece skiing with a packlite shell, and put on my big winter coat in camp. BTW - I do also own a Baltoro but its heavy and still requires a shell, and is TOO warm for California.

My solution to this was to shop Marmot until I found a 42 ounce goretex shelled WARM down winter coat with hood for $275. Only a shelled baffled down coat will be both warm, light and storm proof.
Jim S

5:01 p.m. on November 30, 2003 (EST)
37 reviewer rep
747 forum posts

Quote:

Tom,

I realise that my 18 oz paclite jacket plus 42 oz coat weigh 60 oz. Your 25 oz Nuptse and a 25 oz shell would be 10 oz lighter - so it _IS_ a reasonable way to go if your shell will go over your largest coat. Only mine will keep me warm at more extreme temperatures - like one winter when it suddenly dropped to -5 and the wind was gusting 50 mph.

Still - down pants or down bibs with over pants or over bibs will go a _LOT_ further towards keeping you warm than any specific coat.

Jim S

8:54 p.m. on November 30, 2003 (EST)
MODERATOR
38 reviewer rep
1,742 forum posts

Jim, thanks for the info. I'm trying to "double duty" some of the stuff I already have without too much consideration for weight. My "shell" is really a Nordica ski jacket and I've got a pair of ski/snowboard bibs. Not ideal of course but what I own for now. If I waited until I could afford the ideal gear, I'd never go anywhere so I don't making some compromises. I looked at a Mountain Hardwear Parka today, but haven't got the full specs on it yet. It is definitely more parka than the Nuptse-down hood and all that so I may give that some consideration and get rid of the Nuptse. Tom,

Quote:

I realise that my 18 oz paclite jacket plus 42 oz coat weigh 60 oz. Your 25 oz Nuptse and a 25 oz shell would be 10 oz lighter - so it _IS_ a reasonable way to go if your shell will go over your largest coat. Only mine will keep me warm at more extreme temperatures - like one winter when it suddenly dropped to -5 and the wind was gusting 50 mph.

Still - down pants or down bibs with over pants or over bibs will go a _LOT_ further towards keeping you warm than any specific coat.

Jim S

11:36 a.m. on December 1, 2003 (EST)
37 reviewer rep
747 forum posts

Quote:

Jim, thanks for the info. I'm trying to "double duty" some of the stuff I already have without too much consideration for weight. My "shell" is really a Nordica ski jacket and I've got a pair of ski/snowboard bibs.

Of course I went camping in the Sierras a long time before I had the ideal outfit too. Anyway I think some 300 weight fleece pants under those snowboard bibs and your ski parka over the Nuptse will keep you warm, maybe not real comfortable or really light but adequate. I hate to wear more than 3 layers - I feel to twisted up inside my clothes.
Jim

12:44 p.m. on December 1, 2003 (EST)
MODERATOR
38 reviewer rep
1,742 forum posts

Jim, Thanks again. I am rethinking the Nuptse-I might get the Mountain Hardwear SubZero and just keep the Nuptse for less demanding conditions. The MH has a down hood and some kind of lining called Conduit whatever that is. As far as insulated pants go, I did some online looking, but didn't see much of a choice. MEC as a pair with Primaloft that isn't too pricey. I've got a pair of fleece pants. My old MacPac fleece jacket is getting a little worn so I may look for something newer (it's about 15 years old). Any suggestions?

3:11 p.m. on December 1, 2003 (EST)
37 reviewer rep
747 forum posts

Quote:

My old MacPac fleece jacket is getting a little worn so I may look for something newer (it's about 15 years old). Any suggestions?

I tend to buy what ever (200 weight) fleece jacket is on sale at REI so long as it has pit zips, zipping pockets and isn't too short. You really do need pitzips and a shell with pitzips to ski in on those days when its not cold but its precipitating and you need rain protection. Only thing is whether the zippers work in such a way that you can zip and unzip the inner zippers with one hand while holding ski poles. Oh and the "winstopper" kind of fleece really is a lot nicer than "Wind blows through it kind" when you don't have a shell over it but theres a cold wind, but the winstoppers aren't as soft and flexible to sleep in. I think you said you were near a TNF - denali fleece jackets are cool, don't get one too big.
JIm S

4:43 p.m. on December 1, 2003 (EST)
MODERATOR
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1,742 forum posts

Sounds about right. What do you think of a pair of Primaloft pants instead of down-the only down ones I see are for really cold weather (-40)and are around 3-400 bucks. BTW-the MacPac is made of something called Polarfleece-it's pretty warm and seems okay even in wind. I wore it all over NZ in all kinds of weather. I'll wander off to REI sometime this week and look around-there's an A16 close by too along with a TNF.

Quote:

Quote:

My old MacPac fleece jacket is getting a little worn so I may look for something newer (it's about 15 years old). Any suggestions?

I tend to buy what ever (200 weight) fleece jacket is on sale at REI so long as it has pit zips, zipping pockets and isn't too short. You really do need pitzips and a shell with pitzips to ski in on those days when its not cold but its precipitating and you need rain protection. Only thing is whether the zippers work in such a way that you can zip and unzip the inner zippers with one hand while holding ski poles. Oh and the "winstopper" kind of fleece really is a lot nicer than "Wind blows through it kind" when you don't have a shell over it but theres a cold wind, but the winstoppers aren't as soft and flexible to sleep in. I think you said you were near a TNF - denali fleece jackets are cool, don't get one too big.
JIm S

8:31 p.m. on December 1, 2003 (EST)
37 reviewer rep
747 forum posts

Quote:

Sounds about right. What do you think of a pair of Primaloft pants instead of down-the only down ones I see are for really cold weather (-40)and are around 3-400 bucks. BTW-the MacPac is made of something called Polarfleece-it's pretty warm and seems okay even in wind.

Tom - it sounds like you have plenty of gear already - don't sweat it - he he he... (;->) Anyway what are these "-40 down pants?" How thick are they and how much do they weigh? Do they compress nicely - if so take them. The only time you'll wear them is sitting in the snow anyway and fleece is not efficiently warm and compressable in a winter pack.
Remeber - in the winter snowshoeing you only need light weight fleece and shells over them while moving, and good overall insulation for sitting around. When I get to camp I just pull on my down bibbs and down coat over my light fleece ski clothes.P.S. yur not a gear head are you???
(:->) You are worrying much too much about this...
Jim

8:56 p.m. on December 1, 2003 (EST)
MODERATOR
38 reviewer rep
1,742 forum posts

Jim, I'm a minor gear weenie, my closet and budget aren't big enough. The pants I saw are Marmot or Mountain Hardwear-at $3-400 a pop, not soon to grace my closet, a set of new brakes on my car took care of that thought. I'm really not that worried-I just ask a lot of questions. Thanks for all the advice (and patience).


Quote:

Quote:

Sounds about right. What do you think of a pair of Primaloft pants instead of down-the only down ones I see are for really cold weather (-40)and are around 3-400 bucks. BTW-the MacPac is made of something called Polarfleece-it's pretty warm and seems okay even in wind.

Tom - it sounds like you have plenty of gear already - don't sweat it - he he he... (;->) Anyway what are these "-40 down pants?" How thick are they and how much do they weigh? Do they compress nicely - if so take them. The only time you'll wear them is sitting in the snow anyway and fleece is not efficiently warm and compressable in a winter pack.
Remeber - in the winter snowshoeing you only need light weight fleece and shells over them while moving, and good overall insulation for sitting around. When I get to camp I just pull on my down bibbs and down coat over my light fleece ski clothes.P.S. yur not a gear head are you???
(:->) You are worrying much too much about this...
Jim

11:25 a.m. on December 2, 2003 (EST)
30 reviewer rep
1,238 forum posts
I have a Nuptse parka and truly love the thing!

bought it at Campmor for $99.95. Mine sure doesn't weigh 20 oz. The thing weighs in at less than a pound.

7:04 p.m. on December 2, 2003 (EST)
37 reviewer rep
747 forum posts
Re: I have a Nuptse parka and truly love the thing!

Quote:

bought it at Campmor for $99.95. Mine sure doesn't weigh 20 oz. The thing weighs in at less than a pound.

Web site says 24.6 oz. And you live in Florida - when do you wear a down parka - at home when the A/C is too high?

6:57 a.m. on December 3, 2003 (EST)
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1,238 forum posts
I don't care what the web site says

my parka weighs less than a pound.

I may live in Florida but never have gone on extended backpacking trips (3+ days) here... I go all the way north to Georgia.

Once my canteen froze.

2:43 a.m. on December 4, 2003 (EST)
(Guest)

Re: Question for Jim S

Hi Jim,

Tom suggested to look at this thread. It seems like you have a lot of knowledge about winter clothing.

Like Tom, I am curently shopping for gear for use in Yosemite/Sierras winter camping/backpacking/snowshoeing trips. I have some ideas about tops but still almost clueless about bottoms.

May I know what pants do you use on winter trips and to what temperature were you comfortable? I am thinking of the following gear/combo for temperatures around -10F to 45F. The * are items I am thinking of buying.

Silk bottoms
Smartwool midweight
*Marmot ATV Schoeller
*FF Helios/FF Volant down pants
Frogg Toggs bottoms (for rain/wet snow)
REI nylon hyking pants (for abrasion protection while moving)

The FF down pants will be used around camp. The rest used for layering and moving. I do not own any fleece pants or windstopper pants. I always have trouble finding a good fit. I wear size 30 pants, 29 inseams, but needs loose fit due to my 35 thighs.

Thanks.

-ian

11:57 a.m. on December 4, 2003 (EST)
37 reviewer rep
747 forum posts
Re: I don't care what the web site says

Quote:

my parka weighs less than a pound.

I may live in Florida but never have gone on extended backpacking trips (3+ days) here... I go all the way north to Georgia.

Once my canteen froze.

Keep it out of the freezer Ed... (:->)
And buy a new scale too...
Did you go on that trip I missed?
Jim S
P.S. I can't tell you how happy I am to be in California again and able to go to MY Sierras...

11:34 a.m. on December 5, 2003 (EST)
30 reviewer rep
1,238 forum posts
I did go on that trip!.........

It was oh so good to be in the woods after hibernating since last April. Trip was pretty darn boring. My camping buddy came down with the flu and didn't cancel. He spent the entire evening laying in the hammock and farting.

Night time bushwacking with a buzz just ain't that much fun solo.... I even think I'm strange when I say to myself: "I can't believe we just did that".

Glad your happy to be back in Ca. Last time I was there we had lovely brown skies from San Diego to Riverside. I'm not really into scrubbing the air off my skin.

12:17 p.m. on December 5, 2003 (EST)
37 reviewer rep
747 forum posts
Re: Question for Jim S

Quote:

Hi Jim,

I have some ideas about tops but still almost clueless about bottoms.

May I know what pants do you use on winter trips and to what temperature were you comfortable? I am thinking of the following gear/combo for temperatures around -10F to 45F. The * are items I am thinking of buying.

Silk bottoms
Smartwool midweight
*Marmot ATV Schoeller
*FF Helios/FF Volant down pants
Frogg Toggs bottoms (for rain/wet snow)
REI nylon hyking pants (for abrasion protection while moving)

The FF down pants will be used around camp. The rest used for layering and moving. I do not own any fleece pants or windstopper pants. I always have trouble finding a good fit. I wear size 30 pants, 29 inseams, but needs loose fit due to my 35 thighs.

Ian,
minus 10 is a bit colder than I have seen in the sierras at 8,000' but you nay intend to go higher, yet zero to ten is more likely of scenario for the coldest you will see, more often temps in the teens at night.

As far as your list - and let me say that most of my gear is 5-10 years old. I would leave the silk at home, and I personally do not wear wool, but if they fit you cool. In fact the only organic things I carry are toilet paper and food. I would carry the Volant pants vs the Helios because they are baffled not sewn through. TNF makes nice down pants too, or did.

Ok - this is my Winter/Spring Sierras clothing list that works for me moving or stationary from +65 in the sun to minus anything in any combination of rain snow and wind:
REI 100 weight fleece pants. I wear them under my bibs at night and I ski in them on warm days with tall gaitors, or under paclite pants on nasty days. I never take em off.
Marmot Tech shirt worn under a paclite jacket to ski when its spitting out, or shirt, fleece jacket and paclite jacket if its really cold and nasty or shirt and fleece jacket alone when sunny. (this is where a winstopper fleece jacket is nice.) Also a polypro balaclava and a hood is always available. BTW I would NEVER buy a winter down coat, or shell, without a hood - it may be the single most important piece of clothing.
My down bibs are old REI goretex bibs with full zippers and fully seam sealed. I put them on at camp as soon as I have stamped down a tent platform and pitched my tent. I wear them over the fleece pants and put my paclite pants over them to protect them and keep them dry on the outside so when I am wearing them in my tent or bag they are not damp. Bibs are warmer than pants, and if I did wear my down pants instead of my bibs, I would wear goretex bibs over the pants not my paclite pants.
I hate too many layers so I would wear my tech shirt, fleece jacket and paclite shell in camp (with bibs and booties) until the sun dropped, then unless it was really cold I would wear only the shirt under my Winter coat - a 42 ounce baffled Marmot winter down coat with goretex shell and huge hood, and the afore mentioned bottom layer of course.
I also have a pair of campmoor synthtic insulated booties that I sewed gaitors to and seam sealed as my camp boots and they are a great improvement over normal booties becasue I can walk in deep snow without getting snow in them. I might or might not carry spare socks and might or might not put them on - more likely to carry really oversized wool socks to sleep in.

Now I do carry really warm clothes - a lot more heavy duty than a lot of my friends, but when it dropped to -5 and the winds came up to 50 mph with snow, I was completely toasty sitting outside in the storm. It sort of depends on far in you intend to go and whether you have the option to leave if all hell breaks out. I tend to go camping during winter storm warnings to enjoy the storms so I take the clothes for really nasty weather. All of this less food and water is around 25 pounds with tent and climbing skins for my skis but no ices axe, crampons or climbing gear.

Bill S tends to carry much less in the way of clothes but he also goes to bed early (Hes an old fart you know) and gets into his FF bag when its cold. If he is still around he will comment. Bet on it (;->) I like to ski at night and play in the snow...
Jim S

April 21, 2014
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