Anyone else have wishy-washy decision making habits?

I used to think that reading the forum was a great thing, but now I'm just not sure. The reason is that I find myself switching between one thing and another as I try to equip myself for the minimal first real hiking trip.

Originally, I though I would make logical decisions, decide what I needed, and go after those items. But as I read more and more, I find that my choice of equipment doesn't always seem like the best choice after reading a new forum entry. So I switch to a different type of equipment, and before I obtain it, another forum entry changes my mind.

As an example, I originally decided on a Dragonfly stove. Then I see all the hoopla about alcohol stoves, so I look into those, and build one. Now I think I have switched back to the Dragonfly, not because I don't think the alcohol stove wouldn't work, but that there is just so much negative opinions about everything. I can't really afford the "one of everything" mentality that might come with years of accumulating a piece here and another there.

Same goes for a tent. Lightweight or normal weight, or even convertable 3/4 season tent. I'm almost ready to build a new fly for my 35 year old Eureka and use that.

So, I'm not asking for suggestions on equipment, but more like what is the best way to decide on any particular piece of equipment. They all have their plusses and minusses (are those words spelled right?).

Thanks

Steve

Personally I buy my equipment from retailers who have a liberal return policy. If a piece of equipment doesn't float my boat I'll return it for another, etc, etc , etc.

What floats my boat:

ease of use or comfort
dependability
weight
price

In the last 7 or 8 years I have gone thru

Three different backpacks
three different sleeping bags
four different tents
10 light sources
3 different hydration systems
three manufacturers of hammocks
three different sleeping pads

Finally I have compiled the equipment I'm comfortable with.

Only had one stove that I still use. The Bluette Camping Gaz 270. I love that thing

Steve, Welcome to the club. I am always looking for something, but buy very little. I don't know the best way either, but Ed is pretty right on. If you aren't sure, buy where you can take it back if it doesn't work out.

I spend a lot of time looking at things online, asking questions on forums like this one, then looking at things in person if possible. I have wound up buying and selling a few things I thought I really wanted, but after using decided they weren't for me and have a few things I bought and really like and a few I'm still not sure about. I've been looking for a tent for quite a while and have yet to make a choice.

The best thing I can suggest is to try things out if possible before walking out of the store with them. If you are buying online, just make sure you can send it back for a refund. If you buy on eBay, just get used to the idea of buying and selling the same item-I've done both a couple of times.

How much weight based on "what looks like I would like it" should I put on my decisions? I've bought very little so far, but all of it appeals to me for one reason or another. So far, that seems to have worked out. Actually, just a daypack and a headlamp. I put a lot of research into both purchases. The daypack was one of the few that looked like it would fit, and had the proper gizmos on it to make it adjustable. The headlamp had the regulation, brightness, etc. Both just "felt right", even though neither were worn before purchase.

I agree with the theory that I want to be somewhat comfortable once I hit the trail, so I'm discounting poundage to some degree, and am considering things that aren't ultralight. This is part of the "feels right" thing. I would really like to do winter hikes, as this is the time of the year that I have the most free time, so I'm considering a 3/4 season tent, for instance. It weights more than most tents, even in 3 season mode, but I feel I would be happy with being able to set the tent up the same way no matter what time of year it is.

Anyway, I thank you all for the comments. I fear that I will become a pest about gear until I round out most that I need. This forum tends to ease my worries to some degree, and the ratings here are the first place I start my research. These questions must sound pretty lame to all of you experienced people.

Thanks

Steve

Steve, Most stuff you see these days from a recognized specialty brand will be comparable in manufacturing quality to a similar item of the same type and price.

For example, a $200 bag by one will be close to a $200 bag by another in terms of keeping you warm. It may not be comparable in design and that's where "what you like" comes into play. The hood might be different, the material might feel different, the zipper is different or the colors are different. Once you have read all the reviews, heard all the pros and cons about, for example, our theoretical $200 bag, then get the one you like and stop worrying about it.

I don't care how wonderful a purple sleeping bag is, I'm not buying it no matter what because I don't want to go to sleep or wake up looking at it. Most of my stuff is blue, black, red or gray and that's because those are colors I like and I found clothes and a bag I liked in those colors. I have all kinds of other reasons why I bought a particular stove or compass or something like that, mostly because I liked the way it worked, size, etc.

Don't expect the first of everything you buy to be the last, although some stuff may be a winner that you hope never wears out.

Finally,camping gear isn't like computers where everything is old news two weeks after you buy it. People like Bill and to some extent me, have gear we bought ages ago that still works. Bill, because he takes care of his stuff, me because it's been in my closet most of the time. You don't need the latest and greatest color, fabric, design or whatever of anything to go out and enjoy yourself. When I was in NZ in the 80's, I saw people hiking with gear and clothes that looked like leftovers from Mallory and Irvine and that didn't stop them from enjoying where they were one bit.

Tom,

Your words offer such a relief. I really like my old stuff, and take care of it forever. I have a 35 year old Gibson guitar amplifier that I still use, just as an example. And many other things like that.

If I buy it and like it, maybe 20 years from now, I'll be the one looking weird. If I make it to 75, that is.

Thanks

I understand what you're going through. Whenever I start a new sport I go through the same thing with equipment purchases.

At a point: "Just Do It!".

I remember going through the tent question: Haul my Sierra Designs Wilderness 3 season tent or use my Gerry Tarp. So, I just took the tent until I learned when the tarp could be used, which turned-out to be almost all the time until late Fall.

Make some choices. Buy someplace with a reasonable return policy. Learn. And Enjoy.

Sounds like you've got an old tube amp. Which model is it?
BTW, I have an old Pendleton wool shirt I got when I was in junior high school and they were all the rage. You can't beat the classics (and it still fits-hehehe).

I guarantee trying to compare all the gear available will make you crazy. You can window shop for months and still buy something that you wind up getting rid of. I've done it myself. I'm finally realizing I can't look at everything-even here in LA that's impossible and so I may as well buy something that looks cool to me and be done with it. Look at it this way, unless you do try everything, you'll never know the difference anyway.

The guys switching to UL obsess over saving grams by getting the latest titanium spork. I know it all adds up and saves weight, but it's a bit neurotic in my book.

Like a lot of people, I'm on a budget too, so that affects what I get. Probably a good thing. If I had unlimited funds, I'd have a house that looked like an REI with a kitchen.

35 year old Gibson amp? Oooh, I'm lusting. Do you have a Gibson guitar to go with that amp?

I still have and use a 1970 Fender Bassman 50 and a Stratocaster that I acquired in High School. Had a reverb contraption that was huge. It sat on the floor and measured somethiing like 24" x 8" x 8"

Gotta love the tubes - they are just so bluesy at a high volume setting.

My amp goes up to 11 :)

I bought the Gibson amp around 1965 in high school. It's a 33 watt tube amp - the model is Lancer. It has 4 inputs, 2 straight and 2 with Tremolo and Reverb. It's been through hell and still plays, albeit with a few trips to the repair shop. I used to keep it in a basement to play, until a water main on a hill above the house broke. It created a mudslide that wiped out the house next door and flooded our basement. It got a little wet, and formed a little rust, but is still going. This thing is a tank. It all still works, too.

Wish I had bought a Gibson, or even Epiphone, guitar back then, but instead, I bought a Hagstrom II. It has the best neck on any guitar I've ever played. It finally bit the dust a very few years back when I had the pickups rewound, and the guy did a terrible job on it. It worked for a while, and then just quit. I'll get it fixed one day, but bought a Stratocaster Deluxe (it has the seven pickup selection button instead of the five so you can throw the bridge pickup in on any pickup choice). Got gold tuners and appointment too. Mexican made, not USA, though, but great price and it plays just like the USA models.

Hagstrom quit making guitars a while back, but have started up again. If you're in the market for a new guitar, they are definitely a dark horse consideration. They used to sound real good too, although a little tinny, but no one plays a guitar anymore without something between the guitar and amp.

I really take great care of everything I buy. I don't mind paying a little more for a better piece of equipment, because I know it will last me for decades. I still have all of my old stereo equipment too. Sansui integrated amp, Dual turntable, Akai reel-to-reel (that needs a belt). All works.

Camera gear also, but practically no one uses film anymore. I still have equipment for a darkroom if I ever find the space to set it up again.

Oh yeah, thanks for the replies also.

Steve

We are all going through the wishy - washy thing. I've changed my mind at least 20 times on equipment in the last 3 months reading these forums. Backpacking Light is also very intense. There are so many backpackers with such incredible knowledge its unbelievable. But....we are a great group of people. I was all set and ready to buy the Golite Pinnacle pack, now I have 2nd thoughts. It never stops does it. However, Keep Moving.

Steve, Boy, Hagstrom is a name I haven't heard for years. I'd bet with all the vintage guitar sites around, you can get new or rebuilt pickups for it and it will be good as new.

I've got a Squire Strat, which given my non-existent musical abilities, is all I need to noodle on once in a great while, and a little amp for it.

Tom,

Did you ever get to play a Hagstrom? It's what I learned on, and nothing has really felt right since.

I'd like to try one of those new ones and see how they compare. They just don't have a lot of retailers yet, apparently. It's the very same company, though.

Steve

Great Lakes,

Gosh, that's me to a tee. I have decided on a particular stove, tent, filter, only to change my mind based on what I read. So from here on out, except for maybe the tent, I'm going for what I've "finally" decided upon. The tent is still a wishy-washy thing with me.

A lot of my problem is that I have tried EBay for a while in addition to the normal retailers. Something close to what I want becomes available on EBay, so I put off buying what I first wanted until I lose the bid. Then I start all over again. It's hard to pass up new stoves for less that the discount houses offer it for.

I still have my favorites, and still try to obtain them, but my wife just had more major surgery, so my funds are quite low. EBay is just a way to minimize the overall cost.

Steve

No Steve, never did. I'm not even sure I've even seen one in person, other than maybe at a concert. I've got an old off brand electric my folks bought me back in the 60's and the Squire I got a couple of years ago. I was a big Ventures fan, but never had the talent or patience to get any good at playing. I just fool around with it once in a while.

"My amp goes up to 11 :)" You stole my line!

I think it is hard to look at something in a store and decide that the item will be perfect out in the bush. I have an especially hard time with tents. Until you live in one for a bit it is hard to say whether the interior room is enough, the height high enough, ... Lighter weight tents are just too small for me, I prefer some space. I'm thinking of buying one of these http://www.cookecustomsewing.com/lean2.shtml for the non-bug season. The weight is under 3 pounds and there is a LOT of room. I've toyed with the idea of making my own, but that is a lot of nylon to sew. In 2007 I hope to buy or make my own.

Given the choice between weight and space, I would opt for more space. The tarp, outside of bug season, seems to be the best of both worlds.

alan,

Whoops, I think we got off track there, didn't we.

One of the really hard things to deal with concerning tents is that most of them appear to be just like all of the others. Weight varies a little from one to another. Material varies, but I assume most of them are sufficient, shape and height are all about the same. Maybe more doors and vestibule area. Setup seems about the same.

So what's a rookie to do? There seems to be very little, other than price, to choose from. Color doesn't matter that much to me. There are about two really different shapes to choose from, the Dome and the Tadpole style for two person tents.

I still might go with making a new fly for that 35+ year old Eureka I have, adding a vestibule instead of the sheet fly that came with it. Looks clunky, but I like the tent, an old wall tent A-frame. At least I know if I can sleep in it or not.

Steve

Steve

Time for my $.02. I buy my gear on closeout and clearance sale. Going and doing is what's important. Make and model are irrrelevant, just get gear that's appropriate for what you're doing.

Al,

For someone just gearing up, buying discount and closeout items (and Ebay) makes for a long wait before I can really get out there and get going. But that's what I've been doing also.

So far, I'm happy with what I have acquired, and as funds are really, really low right now, I'm OK with this. I sort of prioritize the order I get things, though, and leave the niceties for last. And trying to make do with the things I already have, like the bulky sleepy bag and old tent, until I can get better suited backpacking equipment will also be alright for now.

Steve

Steve,
Have you gotten out for your 1st day trip yet? You may encounter folks using stuff and you can get the 1st hand account of their gear.
This won't help your cause much but I'm usually pretty wary of gear reviews written by users on the web (even magazines for that matter sice they have advertisers providing the item & buying ad space). Most of them have just gotten the item out of the box and wearing/using it around the shouse when they write the review. The reviews that I do trust more (not 100%) are the ones that have used the items in the environemnts their designed for for. I think I find more value in the negative opinions but you have to read between the lines to find out if the user is using the item correctly and if the user/reviewer is some kind of mechanical idiot.

ag

Adam,

Nope, still haven't gotten out yet for any real trail work. I walk about 1-2 miles an evening, getting boots that are not really hiking boots broke in. So I'm alone for those hikes. I plan on trying a state forest set of trails whenever the grass quits growing.

I tend to agree with you on the evaluations. I think I have mentioned before that it's hard to judge user evaluations for any merit. Users who misuse equipment may give bad reviews to great equipment. Users may also pridefully give great reviews to anything they may have purchased as it might make them feel better about something they aren't really satisfied with.

One of the benefits of monitoring Ebay auctions is that you get a feel for what is popular, and perhaps, good equipment. I know that doesn't always apply, but over the course of a few weeks, you see what gets bid on quickly, and what tends to expire before the first bid is placed.

I know you can't trust that completely, but it contributes to all of the other tools you can make up or use to evaluate equipment. A lot of the auctions are for older equipment (not necessarily used, though) that has plenty of reviews on the web. Some of the newest items being sold at stores just don't have any reviews other that what the retailer is saying.

I put a lot of effort into selecting equipment. I hope it all pays off.

Thanks for the ideas.

Steve

The only way to know is to get out and use it.

There are reputable manufacturers who make good tents (stoves, filters, etc), stick with them. The differences between them are not as great as you may suspect. By and large the stuff out there works. If you were heading out on some heavy duty expeditions you should try to get a lot of feedback, but otherwise don't sweat it that much.

Much of what works for you will be personal preferences. The tent (or any other gear) that you rave about I may hate, for highly personal reasons. It's not that the tent is bad (most of the time), it's just that I may want different things from my gear.

So look at what types of outings you will be doing, and see what equipment seems to have the best compromise of features that you want. Then get it and use it. You may find that you made great choices, and use the gear for years. You may dislike it right off the bat.

Rent equipment if you can, that is a low risk way to do it.

If you know people who spend time outdoors, ask them, but weigh their input against the type of trips they take, and their preferences, especially if their style of camping is a lot different from yours.

Check reviews on the web and in magazines, but take it all with a grain of salt. Much of it is personal opinion. But you can glean good information, especially if there really is a glaring fault with the equipment. And remember that many reviewers are mechanically challenged. I wonder how some of them manage to change the light bulbs at home.

Crisp decisions are based on knowing your objective (or specifications) and bounding (limiting) the resources (money, things, time, people) you are prepared to expend to accomplish the objective. We bcome "wishy washy" when we begin to relax our definition or limits (ofen based on new input, perhaps from advertisers or discussion). There is always something "better" for those who can afford it. But must of us find that we do not need a Mercedes or a BMW and so most of us buy Toyotas and Hondas (national statistics). Tighten up your specifications and then be clear about money and time you can spend to acquire the specifications you need.

I think you have the right idea with that make do idea. If you're currently using make do stuff just watch your weather forecast and don't try to bite off more than you can chew. Just get out there and enjoy. Not many long time backpackers started out with top of the line gear but that never stopped them. I started out with army surplus stuff but that was back in 64. Now I have the big name stuff but like I said, it's in colors that never really caught on with the buying public if you know what I mean.

I spend time on both sides of this fence.

On one hand, I love my 15YO TNF Tadpole & Dana Designs Hyalite. OTOH, I got a deal on a LuxuryLite pack and Exped DAM--and both seem really sweet. I guess I'll know in 15 years, eh?

I wish I could afford to be the gear whore I want to be. While I wait for that winning lottery ticket, I make do with what I've got and always keep an eye out for deals. There are several forums similar to this one that have separate buy/sell/trade discussions. Sierra Trading Post clearance & closeout. REI has those once or twice/year blowouts of all the returned stuff.

Every once in a while I come across something that's so cool I forget about the budget...

Steve,

I've been in much the same boat as you. Here's what I did:

last year - picked up some basic gear, borrowed some from friends, went out a couple of times. I figured out the tent I bought sucked, along w/ the "50" degree fleece bag, and some other stuff. So, I read some more, picked up a 20 degree down light bag on clearance, some non-cotton clothes on sale at Target, and basically figured out how few things I could get by w/ in the woods for at least an overnight (i.e. not much, although heavily weather dependent).

This spring, I bought a nice tent (REI 1/4dome...I recommend it highly, bought on sale for $149, was going for MSR Hubba, but sale convinced me on this one). I hit the trail a bit more often, did a few more overnighters. From my basic experience this summer, I now know much of what I really need, and am working on buying some quality gear, making some of the same, and just trying weird things out w/ homemade stuff.

You say you are just working on a tent now, but you have a useable one. Cool! Go out, and use it! That's the only way you'll really see what you need. Take note of how much of the floorspace your gear takes, and what features it is really lacking, or that you don't need. It may be heavy, but sitting at home and not using it isn't going to help.

Iirc, you were workign on getting into better shape before you started hiking. Well, if you're walking a couple miles a day, I'm sure you could do a hike that's at least 5 miles each way as a nice weekend thing. Do that a few times, and see how things work out.

Make some checklists, or pre/post trip reports w/ questions like these:

Was it too heavy? Is that due to poor pack, pack adjustment, or pack weight?

Was I too cold/hot? Do I need a heavier bag, do I need to use more/fewer layers? What're possible causes?

Could I eat reasonably well? Did it take too much time/effort to do so?

Did I stay dry in rain? Did clothes work as expected, or do they need replacement? Did needed gear stay dry in my pack?

Did boots/trail runners work nicely? Too slow to dry/blisterprone? Ankles need more support? etc, etc, etc,...

Anyways, w/ a series of things like this after each post, you'll really be able to see where your needs lie. I'm still changing things after almost every hike. This week I'm trying out a homemade cozy I made to cook my food in freezer bags (space blanket, bubble wrap, and duct tape), switched my nice polycarbonate measuring cup to a used peanut butter container that I marked volumes on w/ a permanent marker (savings: almost 1/4lb), and am trying some new foods. I picked up some trash compactor bags as a pack liner, and I'm going to see if they hold up better than regular trash bags w/ the expected rain this weekend.

All the while, I'm still trying to figure out whether I'm goin to buy a Kelty Tiogo 5000ci, or a LuxuryLite pack, or just sew a new packbag for my current, ditch my tent (using shelters mostly lately), switch to an alcohol stove vs. the esbit tablets I've been using, etc, etc,...

It's just a process, and you won't gain much if you don't go out on the trail and start experimenting. What's the worst? You'll be miserable for one night? I can't be much more miserable that my first solo backpacking weekend. 50o Fleece bag in mid-20oF temps, causing me to wake up every 10 minutes to rub warmth into my feet. If I stuck my face out from under the bag, my breath started dislodging the 1/4" of iced condensate inside the tent, to boot! Couldn't see anything since my flashlight bulb burned out and couldn't find/replace a new one by feel alone either lol. Either way, it was something I could cope w/, and at worst it's 10 uncomfortable hours and 5 miles back to civilization.

So, let us know what happens. I'm always interested in hearing from others new to this.