Shovels??

I don't see anything about shovels anywhere. What should I be looking for in such a basic piece of equipment?

Thanks.

Steve

get a shovel that is light weight and has a handle that won't break when applying force digging in hard ground.

I got my "backpackers trowel" ($1.99) at Campmor,
my camping buddy got his at the garden dept of Wal-mart.

few years back a friend took his wife backpacking. when he returned from doing his business, he started placing his shovel back in his pack, when his wife blurted out, "oooh, you gonna put that in your pack with your food? I wouldn't put mine in there".

turned out she was pooping ON the shovel and then digging the hole.

Thanks for the morning laugh.

I'll check around and see what the local stores have. I really didn't even know what to ask about shovels, but figured I need one.

Steve

Years ago, the USFS require backpackers to carry a shovel and ax in case they were called on to help fight forest fires. Both had to be adequate to the task - 18-inch handle for the ax, for example. This was honored more in the breach, but after a while (30 or 40 years!), the USFS realized that trying to enlist random backpackers in firefighting, equipped with backpackable axes and shovels was absurd, and actually created more of a problem than a help.

Nowdays, we all use stoves, or if we want (note- I did NOT say "need") a campfire, we gather and burn "squaw wood" (sorry to be non-PC, but this means downed wood an inch or less in diameter, not chopping down trees or even breaking off branches off trees). Similarly, since we have learned that "ditching" tents causes significant erosion, and we don't heroically fight fires with our tiny trowels (leave it to the professionals!), no one in their right minds carries a real shovel.

The only exception is something you don't want to try just yet - for winter camping, there are specialized shovels for avalanche rescue. They are not suitable for regular backpacking, and you aren't at the point of doing snow camping just yet.

The only thing we need a digging implement for in 3-season camping is to dig a cathole. A trowel, as Ed noted, is more than adequate to the task in most places. Camp stores sell plastic trowels that are light and have markings to indicate the proper depth for a cathole.

Steve, it's really simple - just get a trowel, whether a backpacker-specific trowel or a garden trowel from OSH, Lowe's, Home Depot, or your local Ace Hardware.

Just forget about all the gear details and get out there on the trail. The gear will all work itself out as you go along. You will only learn by doing, not on websites or reading books. Start hiking!

I use a simple but sturdy plastic trowel from whatever random hardware store. If you're looking to do some real winter hiking and build a snow cave, you'll need more than that. But, if you're not, just balance weight and sturdiness. Many people just rely on finding a stick as well, or use a trekking pole, or whatever's at hand /shrug.

Bill,

I think I'm getting over those pre-initial-hike worries. The more I thought about this one, the more I realized how stupid it must have sounded.

Believe it or not, there's quite a bit of pressure on a newby to get it right. There's the LNT stuff, and the rules of the trail to not do this here, and only do that over there. The pressure may be self-induced, but still, if one wants to be a "model" hiker,.......

The gear is not an issue anymore.

Thanks

Bill,

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention in the last one - I don't think I'm ready for the other 3 seasons yet either, much less the snow season.

Steve

There's only a couple things really to worry about:

1) Don't burn the place down
2) Survive the night
3) Try to pee/poo away from the trail, camp the same
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4-1,000) Have fun!

Steve,

It seems like you have done your research on hiking and backpacking, and then some, and seem prepared. You have given it way more thought than I ever did. I didn't start overnight backpacking until last year (unless you count field exercises in the Army as backpacking). My wife and I were out on a day hike in the Cranberry Backcountry, and came across some campsites in the middle of the wilderness. I thought that it would be fun to try overnight camping on the trail, and several weeks later (after convincing my wife that we could handle it), we were loading up some camping gear (no light weight gear at the time) into an old Kelty pack that I had bought at a yard sale years before, and heading into the Spruce Knob/Seneca Creek backcountry. We haven't looked back since. I guess that what I am trying to say is that all the little things like what is the best gear to buy, etc. will work itself out as you go. Our first trip wasn't perfect by any means, and even now we run into little problems. Just get out there and try it. Don't worry about all of the little things, such as taking along a shovel. I just improvise and use a sturdy stick to dig a hole. It doesn't take much. Not that I am saying that you shouldn't plan ahead. I have been following your posts and, although I am by no means an expert, it seems to me that you are more than ready for your first trip. This is the best time of the year to get out there, with mild temperatures during the day, and nice cool evenings. The leaves are changing, and mother nature is at her best!

I hope you're not disappointed when you get to the trail and see folks not following LNT.
Put your shovel in a plastic zip-lock bag so it doesn't contaminate the rest or you gear and in lieu of TP try using baby wipes that aren't so offensive to pack out as TP. They're more efficient than TP as well.
Once you get over your Analysis Paralysis I think you’re going to have fun and be very good on the trail.

UL mindset always thinks in terms of double usage. I recently came across an idea (probably Backpacker's Mag) for using a tent stake (the triangular tapered steel type I suppose) as a digging tool. I've always preferred the light plastic orange shovels, but in rocky soil, they are not as convenient nor as effective at digging out chunks of rock. Most of my tent stakes are the light-weight aluminum pencil diameter type, but just maybe I might add an ounce and make one of my stakes double as my shovel.

"There's only a couple things really to worry about:

1) Don't burn the place down
2) Survive the night
3) Try to pee/poo away from the trail, camp the same"

...also .. try to avoid taking a pee in a stream or spring - there's nothing like filling your canteen (even when you're using a filter) and looking upstream to see some fool taking a leak INTO the stream ....

As for a shovel - question - why do we distrub the ground to take a dump? I ask this because deer, bears, chipmunks and many other animals take dumps in the woods on a regular basis without burrying them. In a heavy-use camp I can understand the reason - I'd hate to try to tip-toe through an appalachian trail campsite at peak thru-hiker season if there were no pit toilets - but if you're by yourself way out there - the poop is going to decompose faster if it's exposed to the elements AND animals who smell it won't go digging up top soil to get at it after you leave ...

I understand that this goes contrary to our common concepts of hygienic behavior - but it would seem to leave a less durable trace behind than a small hole filled with poop -

To my way of thinking, shovels, axes and other construction tools don't have a place in my backpack (snow shovel for winter camping up high WOULD be an exception) - I'm there to enjoy nature - not alter it for my convenience.

Steve, you’re right that in most places burying solid waste slows down decomposition, but there are other reasons to bury it and it’s LNT’s accepted practice in most cases.

Under Leave No Trace’s article Dispose of Waste Properly to Minimize Human Impacts (http://www.lnt.org/programs/lnt7/dispose.html), they say:

Quote:

Human Waste: Proper disposal of human waste is important to avoid pollution of water sources, avoid the negative implications of someone else finding it, minimize the possibility of spreading disease, and maximize the rate of decomposition.

In most locations, burying human feces in the correct manner is the most effective method to meet these criteria. Solid human waste must be packed out from some places, such as narrow river canyons. Land management agencies can advise you of specific rules for the area you plan to visit.

Contrary to popular opinion, research indicates that burial of feces actually slows decomposition (at least in the Rocky Mountains). Pathogens have been discovered to survive for a year or more when buried. However, in light of the other problems associated with feces, it is still generally best to bury it. The slow decomposition rate causes the need to choose the correct location, far from water, campsites, and other frequently used places."

They also list some advantages for catholes:

1. they are easy to dig in most areas.
2. they are easy to disguise after use.
3. they are private.
4. they disperse the waste rather than concentrate it (which enhances decomposition).
5. it is usually easy to select an out of the way location where you can be certain no one is going to casually encounter the cathole.

There’s more about how to dig a proper cathole and when to carry waste out (like in river canyons) and on and on at http://www.lnt.org/programs/lnt7/dispose.html. Generally it’s considered best to dig a cathole, although there are exceptions.

Steve -
The thing on burying waste is actually to bury it in "organically active soil". Generally, this is within the top 6 inches or so. If you bury it in sterile sand, the decomposition rate is slower, but if it is in organically active soil, the rate is much faster than leaving it on the surface, where it often just dessicates (dries out, maybe even "freeze-dry").

Toilet paper decomposes very slowly, and if animals dig it up (which they will do), then the wind picks it up, and you have "Charmin lilies" all over the place. So the general rule is "pack it out" - double bag used paper in ziplock bags. Burning it is a bad idea, as was thoroughly proven a few years back in the Angeles National Forest, when a lady burned her paper and lit a fire that eventually consumed over 30,000 acres (not the first time, and several since). If you absolutely must bury the paper (you forgot the ziplocks!), then mushing the mixture of droppings and paper around in the cathole to break the paper into small chunks (use a stick, not your trowel) will speed the decomposition. Actually, mushing the droppings into the soil helps speed things up as well.

In a growing number of locations, USFS, NPS, and other agencies are requiring that you pack out your human waste. Some of these (Shasta, Rainier, Denali) provide bags (sort of like you use for your dog, when you walk it in the park, often with kitty litter in the bag) or poop tubes (in Denali NP, they are called "Clean Mountain Cans"). Commercially, you can buy WagBags. In Yosemite and Sequoia-Kings Canyon, if you go into the backcountry in winter, you are required to pack out your human waste. They do not provide bags, however, so you can either buy WagBags or make your own from a quart-size ziplock (gallon, if you are a bad aim), some kitty litter, and for a group, a large garbage bag to collect all the smaller bags in.

Serious problem in the high country above timberline!

Bill and Alicia -

I can see the point - especially in the high country - of packing out your waste. As for TP - well - years ago I learned to use leaves when I'm backpacking (well after I learned to identify posion ivy - sorry to say a friend of mine was NOT quite so lucky one night ... but that's another story) - so leaving behind toilet paper isn't an issue.
I just object to digging - you're disturbing the topsoil, you're disturbing the microbes and multicellular creatures that live in that soil, you're cutting roots and worms and you're slowing the decay of the feces - all of which seem contrary to leaving no trace. I mean I can 'scatter my scat' with the best of 'em - and I'm a decent enough fellow to go well off the beaten path (assuming I'm on anything that resembles a "beaten path" to begin with).
This isn't the only place I disagree with the LNT folks - trying to scatter burnt remnants of a fire to "disguise" them isn't leaving no trace, it's hiding a trace. Maybe if I carried a shovel I could build a fire and then burry the remnants ... (that's a joke, folks, not a suggestion!).