knives and hiking

Over the years I have seen everything from a small single blade pen knife to the very large “Bowie Style” sheath knife taken on hikes, backpack trips, ect.

I have talked to some people about their knife choices and they all say they chose that knife for protection from wild animals. I think that if I have to use a knife to defend myself from an animal I am in serious trouble, already. All though in the case of an attack, I am prepared to use what ever knife I have at hand.

My preference is to carry not one but two folding knives for work, or general usage. Both very sharp. When I was young I traveled with one knife. Setting it down after using it, I promptly forgot about it, left the area, and only much later and a distance away remembered that I had set it down on a tree stump. It was not recovered. I also use a separate knife for cooking or kitchen duties. I don’t want the general use knives to contaminate my foods.

I am wondering what type of knife you take hiking with you and, or how many? And, or why?

reply

Knife selection is a very personal choice. I choose to carry a Swiss Army Swiss Tool. I've always carried some sort of folding knife for their utilitarian options, like a saw. I keep my knife on a lanyard, clipped to my pack, belt, or hung around my neck, to avoid loss.

reply

redpatch5 has been talking to a bunch of macho dreamers who say

Quote:

they all say they chose that knife for protection from wild animals.

Maybe in the movies. Or maybe defending themselves against chipmunks. I expect kutenay to respond here, assuming he can pick himself up off the floor and quite laughing hysterically long enough to type a response. I doubt that a sword (except Ahnold's in the Conan series) would have any effect against grizzlies (or any other bear bent on a real attack), the large cats, or even an enraged elk/deer/moose (yes, these have been known to kill people).

Knives are made for specific purposes. Although I do use a Swiss Army knife (have several of these from both "official" makers), I find that all the multiple blade/tool knives/Leatherman type of devices do not do anything particularly well. For climbing, I carry a "rescue knife" which sees occasional use for cutting sling or cord for leaving behind for a rappel (more often for clearing the huge pile of ancient, rotting sling off popular rappel points on backcountry routes). Yes, the SAK can be handy [I have used the pliers on one several times when on a backpack with scouts to to "orthodontal" work (retrieve pieces of broken braces), as a pot lifter, and to tighten a few things that my fingernails weren't up to]. And I have used the blades of SAK and Leathermen to whittle, carve, and cut things. The saws aren't good for sawing wood or anything else more than a couple centimeters thick (and are poor even on sticks less than a cm).

Bowie knives do have a purpose. Aside from their use as a weapon for fighting other humans mano a mano, they were used as a substitute for axes, skinning large animals after killing them with the muzzleloader, and as the frontier equivalent of a multi-tool. I do carry one when doing historical re-enactments.

Multiple blade knives do have their uses, but they are not a substitute for a real tool and certainly are unsatisfactory as a weapon for defense against wild animals. Oh, wait, maybe if you confront an enraged brown bear, he might laugh himself to death at the sight.

And the point about having a knife that is kept clean and separate for kitchen putposes is a good one - the folding blade type, especially multitools, have too many hard to clean crevices that can and do harbor all sorts of contamination (if you carry your knife for cutting bread and spreading peanut butter in your pocket, do you also carry the bread itself and the peanut butter in your pocket - I mean without wrapper or container, directly in your pocket?)

reply

the only action my knife ever sees is cutting open a hoagie roll once a day.

I'd be fine backpacking with a plastic knife.

reply

I used to carry a SAK (camper's model with saw) every day. Almost every day I found a use for it. When hiking/camping I carried a SAK and a Russel Belt-Knife.

Now, I would carry the SAK and a Marble's "Trout and Bird" knife. The trout and bird in carbon steel will take a superb edge, hangs around your neck when not in use, is very light weight, and has no crannies to trap dirt - so you can use the same knife for cooking and all other uses.

Here is a photo of the Marble -- http://www.marblesoutletstore.com/ProdDetails.asp?IID=102

BTW, Jim Bureau, who owns the Marble's store above, is a great guy and superb cane rodmaker.

Reed

reply

I love the Victorinox/Swiss Army Super Tinker that I have carried for years. Can't seem to find it on the Victorinox site, however; most of those knives have corkscrews, which I never needed while backpacking. I have used every blade (and even the tweezers and toothpick), but I find that the scissors are the most useful.

Not too good for spreading the peanut butter on the tortilla, however. For that, Ed G's plastic knife is perfect.

reply

Lately my knife choices run between a Swiss Army Knife with a locking blade or a Mora fixed blade knife. I like the locking blade on a folder because I'm careless enough when I'm tired to fold the blade onto my hand during use. Mora's are cheap and light and have a wonderful blade. In the past I've used Grohmann knives and like them a great deal, but they are heavier and more expensive.

reply

rexim -
I also have a Super Tinker - seems like the best combination for a climber, backpacker, or backcountry skier, as well as a Climber Deluxe (has the corkscrew instead of the Phillips head). But something I learned over the years - Victorinox and Wenger both have used a given name for several different combinations of blades and have changed the name of a given blade combination from time to time (haven't seen a duplication of names between the companies, though, despite both being "official Swiss Army Knives").

Years ago, I had a "Climber Deluxe" that was the same as my present Super Tinker (I lost it by leaving it on the roof of the car after fiddling with the roof rack - frozen lock - following a backcountry ski tour). I bought another "Climber Deluxe" mail order (which I still have), and discovered that the Phillips head had been replaced by the corkscrew (climbers in Europe drink wine during the climb from corked bottles, apparently). The current Super Tinker was called a Tinker Deluxe for a while (got one for my son) - exact same blade selection. There is currently a Tinker Deluxe, which has one less blade (forget which one it is). I have several catalogs from them which clearly show the re-naming when compared.

I will have to ask the Victorinox and Wenger people about this at the next OR Show.

reply

I have some type of a Gerber(can't remember the name) that has useable pliers, scissors, a small saw, two smaller blades, two screwdrivers and an awl. That rides in my pack or bike bag and I often carry a larger Gerber with a good sharp blade.

reply

Spyderco Ladybug. Or, the Jester.

I keep it on a neck lanyard (from Benchmade for their rescue hooks). You can pull hard and it pops right off. Neat-o if you ever needed it for an emergency.

Mostly stays in the "possibles sack", though.

-Brian in SLC

reply

I've got a 3" tanto point Benchmade that's been run over a few times, thrown straight into a granite wall from about 4 feet away, and buried in wet sand, but all she needs is a few cotton swabs and a few drops of oil every month, and I'll be damned if she doesn't drop out smooth as butter like the day she was born. I really liked the Leatherman Juice for a while, until I realized only used the knife and scissors. So I eliminated the scissors, and now I just have the blade. If you get one, very good blade, you can use it for nearly anything you might need a multi-tool for. Prying, tightening screws, wedging and chiseling can all be done with a high-strength, thicker blade. In my opinion, Benchmades just have the best mechanism around, and their handles are light and fit my hnd well.

reply

Personal preference is a small knife with a combination serrated and straight edge. Favorite was a Spyderco ?Ladybug. Almost too small. Lost it somewhere on the Dominican Republic. Right now I'm using a Mt Shasta combo edge. Bit heavy relative to the Ladybug. Strong construction. I usually also pack an old BuckTool. It has a straight and serrated blade plus a few useful tools.

Regarding protection from wild animals. Only one real close encounter. Black bear. I found a small tree between it and me plus a branch the length and size of a baseball bat worked. A knife as protection? No way!

reply

James Gary Shelton, a respected bear/Cougar defence instructor here in B.C. and author of three well-known and widely read/used books on this topic, DOES recommend carrying a large, sharp, pointed knife along with two fresh canisters of bear spray, in holsters on your belt while in bear/Cougar habitat. This is largely due to most people being banned from carrying a handgun in Canada's wilderness or anywhere else and he feels that such weapons CAN be useful in the event of a Cougar or bear attack.

Gary is from California and has an American's attitude toward handguns, however, he came here in 1965 and actually LISTENED to the old timer's where he settled and thus learned what/what not to do where these animals are concerned. I own and have read all of his books and respect him, his honesty, experience and conclusions, most of which I agree with.

A guy successfully fought off a hungry Black Bear in William's Lake a couple of years ago, using his belt knife and, I would rather have a good knife than my hands if tangling with a bear.

I do not carry spray, DO carry a 4-4.5" heavy duty sheath knife at all times when in the bush and I keep it sharp enough to do surgery with. I also carry a Letherman TTi Charge and a small SAK in my 1st aid kit.

I don't carry a knife especially FOR use in defence and I can obtain a permit for my Redhawk .44, but, I can't be bothered as I hate having a handgun around in the towns we have to pass through as it is just one more thing to worry about.

Would I use a knife for self defence against a bear or Cougar, hell, yeah, no point in going down without a fight. That said, my buddie's Busse Battle Mistress on his pack strap makes me chuckle....my custom P-64 Mod. 70 "shorty"in .375 H&H with firesights is a FAR better option in bear country and doesn't weigh much more than that "toadstabber"on steroids!

reply

I collect knives, so my list will be longer than most. On backpacking trips this summer, it will be:

Bark River North Star
Spyderco UKPK
Stockman, either a Queen or Moore Maker
Victorinox Farmer (for the saw)
Leatherman Squirt
Victorinox Classic (for the scissors)

I used to not carry a fixed blade, but on a trip two years ago I decided to take one and it ended up being very useful; I had to baton a bunch of branches off a fallen aspen that was blocking access to the only reasonable spot to cross a river. Since then, I make it a point to bring one.

reply

That's a good point about the fixed blade knife. When you need one a folding pocket knife is a lousy substitute.

reply

That is why I have an OSK-1 model on order from Charlie May in Mississippi, he is a friend of Gene Ingram's there and the custom "Lite Combo" hunting knives I had Gene make me are the finest knives I have ever owned/used and that is a bunch.

A GOOD medium fixed blade knife is probably the single most versatile tool you can take backpacking, far more useful than a gun and much more portable than an axe.

Sometimes, doing without a tool to save weight is actually counter-productive, although "fighters", "Bowies" and SURVIVAL knives in tricky synthetic sheaths affixed to the offside pack strap, upside down of course, for that "tactical" draw, always make me snort.......

reply

The best thing I found for long term survival in the woods is a regular 21 inch bowsaw. With it you can make a tipi, cut firewood, build a sweatlodge, clear a trail, make wooden stakes, or quickly fashion a debris hooch. It's light and the blades are cheap though some care must be used in carrying. A great tool for the woods.

reply

Bill S
OGBO

LOL LOL LOL

No I haven’t thought of carrying peanut butter or bread in any of my pockets. It would be kind of messy wouldn’t it? Never mind very difficult to remove and eat. Good One.
Glad to see that I’m not the only one to abuse or loose a knife.

I hope people noticed Kutenay’s comment about sharp knives.

I didn’t name the type I usually carry – “Victorianox” two blade, scissors, tool pick, tweezers, tools, cork screw (it may be the Super Tinker, no mater). It works, and the best part I did not have to buy it.

I am thinking that most of the guys that I have talked with chose the fixed blade, sheath knife, as a comfort thing as well as sometimes practical knife.

And to help with the humour

One of my camping buddies carries a very large, wide blade, sheath knife which ends up in at least one trip pic every time. He uses it for any camp or kitchen work. He worked in the woods marking out cut blocks for forestry companies, and has met up with at least one Black Bear.

Another buddy, to keep his wife happy, takes along a small air-horn, a large can of pepper spray, and a filleting knife as personal protection. All three dangle on his pack belt. He does not like the pepper spray so he says, and he is worried that it might discharge by accident on the trail (I hope I’m not around when it does). The pepper spray could be discussed as another topic later. The fish knife is long and may be sharp, useful?

My daughter went camping last with a few girl friends to a popular Provincial Camp site. One of the girls was loaned a large sheath knife from her boyfriend (at the time) to take car camping for protection. From what, I don’t know. I tested the blade for sharpness before they went camping and I found the blade to be completely dull. As they were leaving within the hour, I told her to bury the knife deep into her camp stuff and under no circumstances should she bring it out at camp as I thought the knife to be more dangerous to her if it was brought out. They returned home without incident and the girl returned the knife to her boyfriend, blade still dull.

I thank you all for your comments and stories. They help me and others. Keep them coming. Keep the knives sharp. Times are good and the trails are fun. Happy Trails.

reply

I carry a small, basic Swiss Army Knife for small tasks and a drop point hunter made by Knives of Alaska.

reply

Bill:

I'd be interested in the explanation from Victorinox. I was at REI yesterday and saw both the Super Tinker and Climber Deluxe on Display--the only difference was the corkscrew, as you said.

I also sometimes carry an old Kinfolks sheath knife I inherited from my father-in-law, but I carry it primarily for sentimental reasons.

reply

...and the hard-core ultralighters say "Razorblade. That's all you need."

reply

I carry the same BSA pocket knife I was given 38 years ago. It's nice and sharp. Yes, its heavy, and I really don't have a use for the can opener when I'm out in the woods, but I feel naked without it.

reply

I'm surprised, in a way, that this discussion has gotten so many responses. But then, I guess I have to add one more to the list of items so personal that every one has a strong personal preference - boots, packs, tents, headgear (whoops, shouldn't have put that in - there will now be a hundred post argument on headgear), cameras, backpack stoves, ...

I do have to disagree slightly with kutenay - yeah, if attacked by a critter bent on killing, maiming, and/or eating me, I would rather have some sort of weapon to defend myself. But I would like for it to be effective, which brings the basic requirement of having training and experience in using the weapon in such a situation. I would contend that the vast majority of people carrying knives in the belief that they would be effective in defending themselves against an enraged bear or hungry puma are just deluding themselves. It may be that Shelton recommends carrying weaponry, but kutenay says he is

Quote:

a respected bear/Cougar defence instructor here in B.C. and author of three well-known and widely read/used books on this topic

Which means he has spent time training, studying animal behavior, and maybe doing some practice. I suspect that the number of those carrying Bowie knives in "tricky synthetic sheaths affixed to the offside pack strap, upside down of course, for that "tactical" draw" who would actually be able to get the knife out and use it effectively in a real bear or lion attack is miniscule, and that the number who succeed is even smaller. And those who believe a folding pocket knife will provide any protection against a grizzly, well, ... Do you really know where the vital spots to use the knife are on a 500 pound angry bear (or a 100 pound puma), and can you get the knife out, maneuver yourself around this angry mass of claws and teeth, and get the knife into the vital area without dropping it in the process? Even having a large bore firearm does no good unless you have been trained in its use and practice a lot - do you know where the slug has to be placed to stop the big, enraged furry guy, and can you do it consistently in a dynamic situation?

It's just like the people who carry electronic widgets, expecting that if they get in trouble, help will arrive instantly. In many cases, the widget, big knife, or even the bag with the 10 Essentials just promotes hubris. It ain't the things you carry with you - it's the knowledge, experience, judgment, and preparation that come before you ever get out in the woods and hills. All the hardware in the world does you no good unless you really know how to use it effectively. Yet too many get out there with "things" and believe they are invulnerable.

I am NOT saying "do not bother carrying" appropriate gear. I AM saying get trained, get the knowledge, work with an experienced mentor, develop the judgment, and be prepared. Don't just get, say, a big knife and head into the hills in the belief that this is a magic talisman that will save you automatically.

reply

I don't see any disagreement here, Bill, you and I are totally agreed on this. I simply wanted to point out Gary's suggestion of a "Cougar knife" plus twin bear spray cans on a belt because most cannot carry a handgun here. He lives where Cougar's DO and HAVE attacked and killed adults as well as kids. He is not the ultimate authority, many here have equal or greater experience than he does, but, his books ARE worth reading, although his rants against "preservationists" are rather tiresome and totally without foundation....I AM one and I was working in the BC wilderness when he came here from California.

Like you, I am very sceptical of ANY tools when the person(s) packing them do not have the skills to use them and I also, as my previous post indicated, find guys packing huge knives amusing. I have had enough Grizzly encounters to know that, in MANY cases, EVEN WITH my custom bear gun(s), I would be dead meat if a given bear decided I look like "Grizzwurst"..... :)

In fact, this is why I very seldom bother to carry a weapon, it is just too heavy and a pita when climbing steep cliffs. I DO highly recommend noisemakers and USE them and have never yet been attacked....thank God.

reply

Kutenay... noisemakers? Do you mean airhorns - or simply a group of off-key voices singing loudly and obnoxiously? ;)

reply

"or simply a group of off-key voices singing loudly and obnoxiously? ;)"

I resemble that comment.

reply

You're ALL going to laugh at me. But, I bring as my primary knife an army surplus bayonet. An old Enfield bayonet with the hollow handle, the barrel loop, and the round spring loaded clip at the end of the handle to lock it onto the rifle. Using a bit of 3/4" steel rod and a rubber O-ring I fashioned a cap for the end of the handle and created my own "Rambo" style camping knife. One that doesn't break the first time you hack at a branch with it. In the handle is the usual. Waterproof matches. 3 Band-aids, large needle, 50 feet of 15 pound fishing line, fish hook, half a dozen Iodine tablets in a tiny Ziplock bag, and a half dozen extra strength Advil Liqui-gels in another tiny Ziplock bag. I love it. It's blade is 11 inches long, double sided up to about 1-1/2 inches from the hilt, and can take ABUSE. You can use it to make kindling by beating on the blade with one piece of wood while driving the blade through the kindling piece. You can hack things with it, pry with it, dig with it, scratch your back with it. Well...When it's dull anyways. : ) Speaking of dull, double sides also means twice as long before it needs sharpening... Theoretically anyways. It's sheath is made of steel, it weighs a ton, but you would be hard pressed to find me a knife as durable and as multi capable as this monster. It can even open up soup cans when someone forgets the can opener... (Whistling) ...

reply