Fire-Maple FMS-117T Titanium Stove 98g

3:38 a.m. on June 7, 2011 (EDT)
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Does anybody know something about this brand & products?


2f70637ee0720fb157a2a1577c8d09faa9882c8d

10:22 a.m. on June 7, 2011 (EDT)
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kethy128 said:

Does anybody know something about this brand & products?


2f70637ee0720fb157a2a1577c8d09faa9882c8d

 I know that Fire Maple is a Chinese brand.  A lot of their stoves are knock offs of American or European brands.  That being said, I haven't heard whether or not they're any good.

 

HJ

11:47 a.m. on June 10, 2011 (EDT)
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If this is a canister type stove, why not just go with a tried and true MSr pocket rocket?  Unless you like the "remote" fuel reservoir.

6:13 p.m. on June 10, 2011 (EDT)
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D&G in the Smokys said:

If this is a canister type stove, why not just go with a tried and true MSr pocket rocket?  Unless you like the "remote" fuel reservoir.

 Remotes have some advantages:

1.  If (and only if) they have some type of pre-heat mechanism, they can be run with the canister inverted, giving you operating capability in weather approximately 20F/10C colder than upright canister stoves.

2.  Since the fuel is "remote" to the burner, one can use a full windscreen without fear of overheating the fuel.  This not only gives you better, more efficient cooking, this also gives you a safer stove.

3.  Since the burner isn't mounted up on top of a canister, a remote stove has a lower center of gravity which makes the stove more stable.

4.  Typically (but not 100% always), a remote canister stove has wider pot supports, which makes pots more stable and also allows one to use larger pots.

Of course remotes have their disadvantages:

1.  They're typically more expensive.

2.  They're typically heavier and less compact.

I generally think a remote set up is best for:

1.  Wind

2.  Cold (less than 40F/10C)

3.  Larger groups.

I generally think an upright set up is best for:

1.  Low winds.

2.  warm temperatures (above 40F/10C)

2.  Solo or small group use.

The PR itself has a couple of disadvantages:

1.  The pot supports aren't all that strong and can be bent fairly easily (I speak from experience).

2.  Poor wind handling.

3.  Pretty "tippy" with much over a 1L sized pot.

Overall, of course, the PR is a very good stove, and it is certainly light, compact, and inexpensive.  A good fair weather stove for one or two people.

HJ

4:09 a.m. on June 11, 2011 (EDT)
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Thanks HJ for your splendid explaination,  i truely like the remote stove, not only because they are can run with the canister inverted, but i think it's more safety when cooking and easy to control it. sure most of the stove are all easy to control. :)

 

I agree with HJ that MSR pocket rocket is a good stove, i am just thinking that maybe i can have a try about other new stoves.

5:43 a.m. on June 17, 2011 (EDT)
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I agree with HJ if only th Fire-Maple FMS-117T Titanium Stove 98g had a pre heat tube.

I have a Fire maple upright stove (I think they are called Gnat in the US) and it is well made and works OK, the Gnat is the same stove as the Fire-Maple FMS-117T Titanium Stove but with the valve at the base. The first time I used my Fire Maple stove in the field three weeks ago, I had problems to get it to simmer, but when I tested it at home it worked perfectly????

I have just purchased one of these stoves, it is a remote canister stove with a pre-heat tube http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Camping-Backpacking-Gas-powered-Stove-Butane-Burner-/310318076345?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item48406611b9 I paid US$27.50 (A$26.30) delivered, it weighs 153g, I am very surprised by the quality, I started it up for the first time today and the flame looked good and the flame adjustment was very good when the canister was turned upside down. It is winter here and I will try it out in the field soon, my go to winter stove is  Coleman Extreme. I hope to in time, make this stove lighter.

I also agree with HJ that the PR is a good stove bit the pot supports are not the best, I own two PR's.

Tony

 

 

8:42 p.m. on June 21, 2011 (EDT)
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TonyB said:

I have just purchased one of these stoves, it is a remote canister stove with a pre-heat tube http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Camping-Backpacking-Gas-powered-Stove-Butane-Burner-/310318076345?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item48406611b9 I paid US$27.50 (A$26.30) delivered, it weighs 153g, I am very surprised by the quality, I started it up for the first time today and the flame looked good and the flame adjustment was very good when the canister was turned upside down. It is winter here and I will try it out in the field soon...

How's that SN stove doing? It looks like an MSR Windpro knockoff. How does it compare?

HJ

6:11 p.m. on June 26, 2011 (EDT)
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hikin_jim said:


How's that SN stove doing? It looks like an MSR Windpro knockoff. How does it compare?

HJ

 Hi HJ,

The Chinese stove legs/pot supports do look very much like the WindPro but the burner is much smaller, the control valve is also a bit different.


IMG_4585.jpg

Chinese stove burner


IMG_4586.jpg

Chinese stove valve

Tony


3:00 p.m. on June 28, 2011 (EDT)
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Ha!  Those legs/pot supports look like they were directly copied from an MSR Windpro or Simmerlite.  They even have a totally unnecessary priming cup, which is a vestige of the Windpro's Simmerlite heritage.  Complete copy there.

But the burner and generator (pre heat "loop") are new as is the coupling to the fuel canister.

How is the durability of the fuel hose?  I've heard some criticism of the fuel hoses on Chinese stoves as not being very durable. 

Does the coupling rotate so as to facilitate inverted canister use?

HJ

7:32 p.m. on June 28, 2011 (EDT)
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hikin_jim said:

Ha!  Those legs/pot supports look like they were directly copied from an MSR Windpro or Simmerlite.  They even have a totally unnecessary priming cup, which is a vestige of the Windpro's Simmerlite heritage.  Complete copy there.

But the burner and generator (pre heat "loop") are new as is the coupling to the fuel canister.

How is the durability of the fuel hose?  I've heard some criticism of the fuel hoses on Chinese stoves as not being very durable. 

Does the coupling rotate so as to facilitate inverted canister use?

HJ

 Hi HJ,

Yes the pot supports do look the same as the Windpro, as a lot of MSR stoves are made in Asia these days the legs might be from the same factory.

The fuel hose is covered by wire-braid so I am unable to see the quality of the hose and the valve does have a rotatable coupling which allows easy turning of the canister.

From my initial testing I am quite impressed and look forward to using this stove in the snow in a few weeks.

Tony

7:39 p.m. on June 28, 2011 (EDT)
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If you get a chance, post your impressions of the stove.

HJ

8:16 p.m. on June 28, 2011 (EDT)
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hikin_jim said:

If you get a chance, post your impressions of the stove.

HJ

Hi HJ,

I will try and do some testing on the stove on the weekend, it is mid winter here and it is too cold in my shed to do much at night.

I will then do a basic review, but it is only when a stove is used in the field a few times that one can do a proper review.

I do not know how many times that I have had one of my MYOG stoves working perfectly on my bench only for it to have problems in the field.

Tony

11:07 p.m. on June 28, 2011 (EDT)
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TonyB said:

I will then do a basic review, but it is only when a stove is used in the field a few times that one can do a proper review.

Understood of course. Really, to know a stove, one has to use it under a variety of conditions. It's only after a year or so of frequent use that I feel like I've really gotten to know a stove.

I do not know how many times that I have had one of my MYOG stoves working perfectly on my bench only for it to have problems in the field.

Sounds painful in a way, but I respect and appreciate that you're taking the time and trouble to do some cutting edge stuff.

There's a gap out there: a good commercially available ultra light remote inverted canister stove. I've seen all sorts of MYOG ultra light remote inverted canister stoves but I'm not aware of anything that is commercially available that I would class as ultralight.

The remote inverted canister stoves I have are nice, but none particularly light weight:

MSR Rapidfire

MSR Windpro

Coleman Xtreme

Coleman Xpert

Coleman Xpedition

Brunton Vesta

Of that lot, I believe the Windpro is the lightest that I've got. The Xtreme would probably be the most cold weather capable. The Brunton, albeit heavy, is a very well made stove and is easier to use than the Windpro.

Take care,

HJ

12:47 a.m. on June 29, 2011 (EDT)
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hikin_jim said:

There's a gap out there: a good commercially available ultra light remote inverted canister stove. I've seen all sorts of MYOG ultra light remote inverted canister stoves but I'm not aware of anything that is commercially available that I would class as ultralight.

The remote inverted canister stoves I have are nice, but none particularly light weight:

MSR Rapidfire

MSR Windpro

Coleman Xtreme

Coleman Xpert

Coleman Xpedition

Brunton Vesta

Of that lot, I believe the Windpro is the lightest that I've got. The Xtreme would probably be the most cold weather capable. The Brunton, albeit heavy, is a very well made stove and is easier to use than the Windpro.

Take care,

HJ

 Hi HJ,

I agree there are no ultra light remote inverted canister stoves on the market, I do have a Coleman Extreme but they are heavy, I know a few people have modified their extremes, and I have considered doing this with mine, the only modification that I have done to my Exteme is to modify the pot stand to take a JetBoil GCS pot, this actually worked very well in the coldest temperatures I have ever experienced -18C (0F) , my walking mate complained that it boiled the too fast as he did not have enough time to prepare the food he was going to cook.


IMG_1100.jpg

Heating water with my Extreme in Tin Hut with snow up to the window.

I have not used a Windpro stove but have read a lot about them, I have read mixed reviews about performance of the Windpro in the cold.

I have seen the Brunton Vesta on the net but not read much about them.

There is also the Primus Eta Packlite, Primus ExpressSpider and the Trangia canister gas conversion system, not light but good performers.

Tony

2:35 p.m. on June 29, 2011 (EDT)
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TonyB said:

the only modification that I have done to my Exteme is to modify the pot stand to take a JetBoil GCS pot

What modifications were needed? Did you make the arms of the pot stands thinner so that the pot stands would fit between the fins of the heat exchanger?

Is that a 170g canister I see in your photo?  Do they still sell those in Australia?  Only 300g canisters are produced here in the US.  Overseas, I've seen canisters that have long been out of production here in the US.  If only I could figure out a way to ship some home. 

 

my walking mate complained that it boiled the too fast as he did not have enough time to prepare the food he was going to cook.

lol. If that were my only complaint in winter camping, I'd be in heaven itself.

 

There is also the Primus Eta Packlite, Primus ExpressSpider and the Trangia canister gas conversion system, not light but good performers.

 The Trangia conversion looks like it would be the most "bombproof" set up possible for extreme wind and cold.  Definitely not light and not compact either.  Possibly useful in some conditions though.

HJ

6:32 p.m. on June 29, 2011 (EDT)
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hikin_jim said:

TonyB said:

the only modification that I have done to my Exteme is to modify the pot stand to take a JetBoil GCS pot

What modifications were needed? Did you make the arms of the pot stands thinner so that the pot stands would fit between the fins of the heat exchanger?

Is that a 170g canister I see in your photo?  Do they still sell those in Australia?  Only 300g canisters are produced here in the US.  Overseas, I've seen canisters that have long been out of production here in the US.  If only I could figure out a way to ship some home. 

 

my walking mate complained that it boiled the too fast as he did not have enough time to prepare the food he was going to cook.

lol. If that were my only complaint in winter camping, I'd be in heaven itself.

 

There is also the Primus Eta Packlite, Primus ExpressSpider and the Trangia canister gas conversion system, not light but good performers.

 The Trangia conversion looks like it would be the most "bombproof" set up possible for extreme wind and cold.  Definitely not light and not compact either.  Possibly useful in some conditions though.

HJ

Hi HJ,

I removed the Extreme legs and replaced them with some Ti ones I made from some Ti tent pegs, I wanted them to be easy to remove so taped the holes and I then made threaded sleeves to go on the end on the new pot supports, works very well for the JB GCS pot but does not fit my other pots.


IMG_4612.jpg

Last winter I did not use the JB GCS pot, I did some calculations and the extra weight of the GCS pot was more than the extra fuel I would use with my lighter 1.5l Ally pot, waiting a few minutes extra was not a problem.

The Trangia stove system is a very popular stove here in Australia, even though there is some discussion about the lighter upright stoves and a few people are starting to fit the Canister gas conversion, they refuse to give them up.

We also have the White Gas (called shellite here) stove diehards, many walkers flatly refuse to give them up, even if they can save a kilo or so.

Tony



2:54 p.m. on June 30, 2011 (EDT)
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Interesting mod.  I bet the GCS pot is very secure atop the Xtreme with that mod. 

Interesting comment about your switching back to a plain aluminum pot.  Heat exchanger pots don't seem to "pay for themselves" in terms of weight do they?  UNLESS of course they save you from having to carry a second canister of fuel.  Do they still have 170g Coleman Powermax canisters available in Australia?  They only now have 300g canisters available here.

There are a lot of Trangia devotees out there, aren't there?  The Trangia to me is ridiculously big and bulky.  I carry an alcohol stove to save weight not increase it!  If I'm going to carry something that big and bulky, I'll carry something that has the power of petroleum behind it.  Still, one has to ask why "Trangia-ites" are so devoted?  The stove is fairly bombproof:  solid construction, almost nothing to go wrong, works even in heavy wind, and absolutely silent.  Like I say, I can't ever see myself carrying such a big, clunky thing just to use an alcohol stove, but some people swear by them.

Now, for severe weather with a gas or liquid fuel burner inside them?  Sure.  I can see that.  The Trangia set up with a gas or liquid fuel burner inside might well be the ultimate cold and severe weather stove.  There's a stove called the KAP Arctic that was developed for the Swedish military for use in the far north of the country that is considered by many to be the gold standard for harsh cold weather stoves.  But for routine hiking and backpacking?  I can't see such a bulky and heavy alcohol stove as being worth it.  Then again, I live in California where the weather is quite clement much of the time.

I still use my old white gasoline stoves, but generally not for backpacking.  For backpacking, I switched to gas a few years ago.  I generally use an upright gas stove for decent weather and my Xtreme for cold weather.  The last time I used my white gasoline stove for an overnighter was a 2007 snowshoe backpack. 

I do however still use my white gasoline stove for short day hikes where I'm going to be doing a lot of cooking.  White gasoline is quite cheap here, about $9.00 USD for four liters.  Last night for example, I went on a potluck hike after work.  I used a white gasoline stove to cook perhaps 10 quesadillas (a tortilla dish with cheese if you're not familiar with it).  I ran the stove continuously for the better part of an hour.  That would have been a bit expensive had I used gas, but it was probably less than a dollar's worth of liquid fuel.  A 110g canister of gas costs about $5.00 here.  The equivalent amount of white gasoline is about $0.30.

HJ

7:13 p.m. on June 30, 2011 (EDT)
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hikin_jim said:

Interesting mod.  I bet the GCS pot is very secure atop the Xtreme with that mod. 

Interesting comment about your switching back to a plain aluminum pot.  Heat exchanger pots don't seem to "pay for themselves" in terms of weight do they?  UNLESS of course they save you from having to carry a second canister of fuel.  Do they still have 170g Coleman Powermax canisters available in Australia?  They only now have 300g canisters available here.

There are a lot of Trangia devotees out there, aren't there?  The Trangia to me is ridiculously big and bulky.  I carry an alcohol stove to save weight not increase it!  If I'm going to carry something that big and bulky, I'll carry something that has the power of petroleum behind it.  Still, one has to ask why "Trangia-ites" are so devoted?  The stove is fairly bombproof:  solid construction, almost nothing to go wrong, works even in heavy wind, and absolutely silent.  Like I say, I can't ever see myself carrying such a big, clunky thing just to use an alcohol stove, but some people swear by them.

Now, for severe weather with a gas or liquid fuel burner inside them?  Sure.  I can see that.  The Trangia set up with a gas or liquid fuel burner inside might well be the ultimate cold and severe weather stove.  There's a stove called the KAP Arctic that was developed for the Swedish military for use in the far north of the country that is considered by many to be the gold standard for harsh cold weather stoves.  But for routine hiking and backpacking?  I can't see such a bulky and heavy alcohol stove as being worth it.  Then again, I live in California where the weather is quite clement much of the time.

I still use my old white gasoline stoves, but generally not for backpacking.  For backpacking, I switched to gas a few years ago.  I generally use an upright gas stove for decent weather and my Xtreme for cold weather.  The last time I used my white gasoline stove for an overnighter was a 2007 snowshoe backpack. 

I do however still use my white gasoline stove for short day hikes where I'm going to be doing a lot of cooking.  White gasoline is quite cheap here, about $9.00 USD for four liters.  Last night for example, I went on a potluck hike after work.  I used a white gasoline stove to cook perhaps 10 quesadillas (a tortilla dish with cheese if you're not familiar with it).  I ran the stove continuously for the better part of an hour.  That would have been a bit expensive had I used gas, but it was probably less than a dollar's worth of liquid fuel.  A 110g canister of gas costs about $5.00 here.  The equivalent amount of white gasoline is about $0.30.

HJ

 Hi HJ,

The Coleman Canisters are very hard to get here in Australia, I am not sure if the 170g ones are still available here as no local shops stock them, I got mine a long time ago and I refill them when needed, a few years ago I purchased a box of 300g Coleman canisters which I am still using, the local family owned camping shop that used to stock Coleman canisters was sold to a car parts chain (Super Cheap Auto) and the shop is now called BCF (Boats Camping Fishing) they are more interested in selling portable beer coolers.

With the GCS heat exchanger pot, last winter I was packing for a snowshoe trip, I needed two pots one to heat the takeaway curry and one to cook the rice in, I went through my large collection of TI, SS, HA ally and ally pots, to find a pot that fitted inside the GCS pot, one of the HA pots fitted nicely, when I weighed the two pots I then realized that it was much heavier than my two regular 1.5l and 1l cheap ally pots, the weight difference was equal to one full 230g canister, I know that the GCS pot is efficient but not that efficient, so I went back to my old pots and carried a 170g max canister as a spare, which I did not need. If I was only carrying one pot the calculations might be different.

Trangia used to make a cold temperature priming kit for the Trangia, but at the end of the day alcohol is still a poor performer in the cold.

The Australian Antarctic department use Optimus Hiker stoves or the larger cousin and use Kerosene as the fuel.

White gas is cheaper to use, but less convenient, it is interesting the cost of fuel in the US, I just checked my local hardware store for the latest White gas prices here.

Please note that the A$ is worth US$1.07ish at the moment.

Shellite (White gas) 1 liter, A$7.63

4 liter, A$27.00

White Spirits (same as Shellite but different name) 1 liter, A$4.30

Note: white gas, shellite, white spirits are all from the Petroleum Spirits  family.

For alcohol fuel we use Methylated Spirits (metho for short), this is probably one thing we might have it over the US, as our Methylated Spirits is regulated and is usually 95% ethanol with some methanol and water added, my investigations into US denatured alcohol show that it can have vastly  different ethanol contents and additives.

Methylated Spirits costs around A$3.00 per liter.

Shellite used to be much cheaper as the supermarkets used to stock it, but new safety rules forced them stop.

Canister gas is much more expensive here.

A 100g JetBoil canister is A$11.00

A 230g MSR canister 80% Iso-20% Propane is A$12.00

A 230g Kovea 70% Iso-70% propane A$7.00

All made in Korea (by Kovea)

I buy Kovea 450g canister for around A$12.00 and refill my smaller canisters, I recently purchased some 450g Primus canisters for A$8.00 each.

Tony

11:38 p.m. on July 12, 2011 (EDT)
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TonyB said:

 Hi HJ,

The Coleman Canisters are very hard to get here in Australia, I am not sure if the 170g ones are still available here as no local shops stock them, I got mine a long time ago and I refill them when needed, a few years ago I purchased a box of 300g Coleman canisters which I am still using, the local family owned camping shop that used to stock Coleman canisters was sold to a car parts chain (Super Cheap Auto) and the shop is now called BCF (Boats Camping Fishing) they are more interested in selling portable beer coolers.

Similar story here -- fewer and fewer shops are carrying the Coleman Powermax canisters, although here in Los Angeles, they're still carried by at least two or three shops. I got a big batch on sale when a local store was discontinuing them. I've probably got 30 canisters of the 300g size which is probably more than I'll ever need.

What technique do you use to refill the Coleman canisters? I've thought about trying a Brunton Fuel Tool which works well on Camping Gaz CV360 canisters, but I haven't tried it on the Coleman canisters.

Trangia used to make a cold temperature priming kit for the Trangia, but at the end of the day alcohol is still a poor performer in the cold.

The Trangia is a very solid stove, but I still don't quite understand the enthusiasm some people express for them. My gas and liquid fueled stoves have done quite well in all kinds of wind and weather -- for a fraction of the weight and bulk. I particularly don't understand the use of alcohol in cold weather. The Swedish military, famous for using Trangia burners, uses kerosene stoves for extreme cold weather.

The Australian Antarctic department use Optimus Hiker stoves or the larger cousin and use Kerosene as the fuel.

Larger cousin?

White gas is cheaper to use, but less convenient, it is interesting the cost of fuel in the US, I just checked my local hardware store for the latest White gas prices here.

Please note that the A$ is worth US$1.07ish at the moment.

Shellite (White gas) 1 liter, A$7.63

4 liter, A$27.00

Yipes! I can get a gallon (3.8 liters) of Coleman fuel for $8.88 at the cheapest store (Wal-Mart). Even at sporting goods stores, it's about $11 or $12. Buying by the gallon is a huge advantage. If we buy by the quart here (.95 L), the prices are closer to what you're paying.

For alcohol fuel we use Methylated Spirits (metho for short), this is probably one thing we might have it over the US, as our Methylated Spirits is regulated and is usually 95% ethanol with some methanol and water added, my investigations into US denatured alcohol show that it can have vastly  different ethanol contents and additives.

Methylated Spirits costs around A$3.00 per liter.

You definitely have an advantage with regulated metho. Here, they can have less than 50% ethanol (sometimes less than 1/3 ethanol) and still sell it as denatured alcohol! Ha! There's more denaturant than alcohol. And they can denature the alcohol with pretty much anything they darn well please. At A$3.00/L, your prices are actually quite a bit lower than ours. We pay US$6.00 - $8.00 per quart (0.95L).

Canister gas is much more expensive here.

A 100g JetBoil canister is A$11.00

A 230g MSR canister 80% Iso-20% Propane is A$12.00

A 230g Kovea 70% Iso-70% propane A$7.00

All made in Korea (by Kovea)

I buy Kovea 450g canister for around A$12.00 and refill my smaller canisters, I recently purchased some 450g Primus canisters for A$8.00 each.

A 100g Jetboil canister here is US$5.00. A 227g MSR canister is US$6.00 For MSR and JB, you're really getting gypped!  No wonder some walkers still insist on using Shellite.

The Kovea 450g canister sounds like quite a bargain, especially since it's a beautiful 30/70 pro/iso mix. We don't have anything like that mix in a standard threaded canister available in the US. The best we've got is 20/80 mixes (MSR and Brunton).

I don't suppose you know the actual mix in a Jetboil canister? It's rumored to be 20/80, but I've never talked to anyone who knew for sure.

450g threaded canisters are very hard to find here. Everyone uses 110g and 230g class canisters. The one store around here that sells them only carries the Primus brand which I don't like since it contains not only propane and iso-butane but also n-butane.

For n-butane, I just buy the 230g "long" 100% butane canisters at the local Asian market, four for US$4.00. I then refill my threaded canisters from the "long" canisters using a refiller I bought from Japan. As long as the weather is above 40F/5C, n-butane is a reasonably good fuel.

HJ

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