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Posted by Bill S on July 22, 2006 at 9:28:01 pm EDT
In reply to Climbing + Career posted by Carl on July 22, 2006 at 12:02:37 am EDT

I strongly echo adam's statement. It sounds like your boss wants a slave, not an assistant. What are the advancement opportunities?

There are lots of ways to go, and Dave has covered part of them. Among my many friends, colleagues, fellow climbers, and acquaintances, there is the whole gamut from full time climbers to full time geeks and nerds who live and breathe engineering and science. Well, ok, science is very different from engineering - science is a way of life, where engineering is more of a career with a definite retirement date.

Consider this - a statistic circulated widely in the aerospace industry and well-documented is that a very large fraction of those whose entire life was dedicated to a professional career (meaning not only their 8 hours a day, but their social circle and often dedication to 70-80 hour weeks pushing to get contracts and complete them by deadlines), then retired at the prescribed retirement age die within a year of retirement. Those who have outside interests and can make the transition from the office to those outside interests in retirement live more like 10-20 years.

Another piece of advice that I was told back when I was in high school and have heard repeated, which I gave many times in my academic career and pass on to you now - if the career, occupation, or job is not one you enjoy, you are in the wrong job. Choose a way of life that is one which brings joy, fun, and lots of pleasure. (that's one of the attractions of science).

That said, there are many of my professional colleagues who are great scientists and engineers who are also active in the outdoors as climbers, backcountry skiers, backpackers, birdwatchers, etc. One of the foremost astrophysicists of the 20th Century, Lyman Spitzer was an active climber who made a bequest to the American Alpine Club to provide support to young climbers for expeditions (Spitzer was a friend, although our research was in quite different areas). Another of the great astrophysicists of the 20th century and a mentor of mine was an avid birder and often would arrive early for the twice a year meetings of the American Astronomical Society and lead a group of us on birding treks in the area where the meeting was to be held (I am a fairly accomplished photographer, with published bird photos).

A number of the Yosemite hardmen of the 60s and 70s were aerospace engineers, as were many climbers in other areas. Some of these (Chouinard, Robbins, and Frost perhaps the most famous) started companies that manufacture climbing gear and outdoor clothing. Ray Jardine, who perfected the Friend cam and is also famous for ultralight packing, was an engineer in his early years.

At CalTech, my undergrad school, our motto was "work hard, play hard." One of my professors, Chuck Wilts, devised the Tahquitz Decimal System, now referred to as the Yosemite Decimal System, by which most climbs in the US are rated. He also devised methods of testing climbing gear which eventually developed into the methods used for UIAA and CEN for climbing gear certification.

I mention people I know, not because that makes me special, but because these are people who followed a path that connected the outdoors and their science and engineering careers. Another connection is this - you show an interest in guiding and teaching about the outdoors. A number of climbers earn their real livings in the teaching profession (I don't mean "educators", but real teachers). They include everything from university professors to community college teachers to K-12 teachers (who can bring the real world into the classrooms).

Ok, you say you want to do some guiding. I entertained the idea of professional guiding as a post-retirement way of earning some money, but mostly occupying some time and letting others pay for my outdoor activities. But a good friend who runs a guide service and climber/guide training program told me to consider the following - "you really enjoy climbing, but do you really want to do what you enjoy with a group of inept clients?" If you are having to earn a living as a guide, you will end up with a lot of very nice folks, but also with a certain number who fall into the Guide's Rules of Clients - "1. the client is out to kill you; 2. the client is trying to kill himself; and 3. the client is trying to kill the other clients." These days, in retirement, I conduct workshops and training sessions for a couple of volunteer organizations. I have encountered such people (and as a volunteer, no pay, maybe some expenses). In a climbing instructor workshop, I had a guy who insisted he knew all about climbing, including that you don't really know how to climb until you can do it free-solo (i.e., no rope or pro, even at the limit of your ability). And rock climbing is best done barefoot. These instructor-candidates, by the way, were learning to instruct teenagers.

Final comment, one which Dave hinted at - guiding, whether fishing, hunting, backpacking, river running, or climbing, pays very poorly. You have to be licensed and/or certified by a recognized organization and/or governmental agency. Insurance and permits (you need commercial permits to guide in federal and state territories, like parks) cost a fair amount. You also are running a business, whether you are employed by a guide service or are independent, so you need insurance and have all the recordkeeping and tax-reporting of any business (many guide services contract with their guides as "independent contractors", though they may provide some insurance and other expense coverage). Very few guides continue in the career more than 5-10 years. After that, they may move into the management and administrative end of things (some do continue to teach, Bela and Mimi Vadasz of Alpine Skills International being 2 of the few exceptions I know). I know many who left guiding altogether after a few years, often because they acquired family obligations and had to start saving for their kids' educations. Most guides I know personally have "real jobs" during the off-season (guiding is seasonal, ya know, no matter what you guide).

Still, if it's "just a job", find something else that you enjoy. It may well be worth it to you to guide. Teaching others is very rewarding for those few of your clients who go on to excel, and satisfying for those many you get to enjoy even a bit of the outdoors. A big part of it is conveying your own personal enjoyment of the wilderness to others.

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