AT mentality comes to Everest?

1:30 p.m. on May 9, 2017 (EDT)
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http://www.alanarnette.com/blog/2017/05/08/everest-2017-ropes-near-summit-climbers-staged/

The bottom of that post details a guy trying to climb without a permit and includes his explanation. Apparently not having enough money is a good reason to not follow the rules because its all like commercial now man.

3:37 p.m. on May 9, 2017 (EDT)
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Just another sideshow in the carny sideshow that has become  Everest - a total travesty of what mountaineering should be.....

4:24 p.m. on May 9, 2017 (EDT)
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LS, sorry for my dullness but what part is the AT mentality?

I guess if someone asked me what the AT mentality was my first would response would be "instant elitism". Like when you meet folks who have been hiking for two weeks and are suddenly experts on all things hiking related. I meet those every year.

5:01 p.m. on May 9, 2017 (EDT)
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There is no one mentality Pat and I wasn't trying to generalize about AT hikers of which I've met both sinners and saints. This guy just reminded me of some folks I've met on the trail or heard tell of in stories. The general attitude of saying that its not my fault I've arrived without a permit and don't have the money to pay for one. I'm special, so despite the rules I'll just do my thing and besides following the rules is for squares.

2:37 a.m. on May 10, 2017 (EDT)
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You don't need to leave the city to encounter plenty of folks who consider rules over rated or only applicable to others.  A quick glance of his FB page confirms he is an insufferable narcissist.  I'll leave it there, I've already wasted more effort commenting on him than it is worth.

Ed

9:28 a.m. on May 10, 2017 (EDT)
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Gotta agree both with patric and LS..To many of them post on forums about the things they describe or you meet them in person..It turns my stomach when they run out of money and just leech off other hikers..I am ok if you need help for a night but your whole trip...SMH...Yeah same ones who dont want to pay 20 bucks to go through the smokeys..I hope they keep increasing the amount of rangers and tickets go up...

9:41 a.m. on May 10, 2017 (EDT)
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In Norway we have hut parasites -- people who use self-service huts without paying (the hute are mostly on a self-pay honor system). One German guy spent a couple months in early winter going from hut to hut, taking food from the self-service food supplies without paying. They eventually caught up with him. But a couple of times I have seen whole families come into huts on a day visit, track snow and leave food crumbs without cleaning up, and leave without paying, even though there is a special reduced rate for families (and they had enough money for ski gear etc. -- it's not about money, it's about getting away with something.) Then there were the Dutch university students who actually wrote an entry in the hut log saying that they used the hut and food but didn't pay because they are "poor" students (who can afford to otherwise travel around Norway). Fortunately there are enough of us who pay and clean up to keep the system working, but too much of that and it will collapse. Grrr.

10:31 a.m. on May 10, 2017 (EDT)
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Ah I see LS, thanks.

I've gone through a maturation process with the whole topic myself. I would never intentionally skip a permit but I'm guilty of sometimes not camping where I said I would. And I must admit I've done my share of stealth camping over the years.

When I honestly examine myself I find a tendency to think that "well that rule is for people who destroy places and act stupid; I know how to truly leave no trace and therefore it's ok for me". But it's really not Ok for me.

When it comes to Parks and Rules, I eventually realized that I needed to respect the authority of the people entrusted to protect the place; in most cases they are educated and experienced in ways that make them qualified to design appropriate plans and practices. Sometimes I have to ask myself "Just who the hell do I think I am?" Whether or not I like their chosen methods, I should acquiesce.

The place I struggle the most with is my long time stomping ground of the GSMNP. For Tennesseans there are some other factors involved in park access; most rooting from the established covenant that no citizen shall be charged to access the park, but also that many local residents have families that were forced to give up their homes to create the park (but then what about the Trail of Tears right?). Then there is the whole controversy over charging backpackers when the vast majority of visitors are not backcountry users and pay no fee (but often require more services like policing, roads, parking lots, bathrooms, etc...) I have to really guard myself against childish feelings of entitlement.

11:32 a.m. on May 10, 2017 (EDT)
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None of us is perfect, even if we try. I think the important thing is to try and the next most important thing is to notice when we fail. When you stop noticing you are long past caring and I think that is what leads to the obnoxious sense of entitlement so many rule breakers seem to have acquired.

I will admit that I broke the 200' rule on my last Pemi trip. Found a nice spot that based on my paces was only about 150' off the trail and said close enough. If I was on a heavily traveled trail where my rule breaking would set a bad example I wouldn't have camped there, but this trail hadn't seen a human for a couple months and wasn't likely to see another for at least a few weeks so I took my chances.

Considering it seems that no one uses that part of the wilderness but me for large parts of the year, I have to guard against that sense of entitlement too. It feels like my private playground and I try to make everyone who goes there feel the same by leaving no trace of my visits :)

8:39 a.m. on May 11, 2017 (EDT)
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Patrick I thought about that when I was writing about the parks system..I am in a state with SNP its 15 dollars a car just to get in then camping permits...hahah So yeah I get what your saying... I really felt entitled and believe me when I say this. " I wish there were more hikers who followed LNT and knew about it". I hate cairns unless their for navigation....

September 23, 2017
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