aid gear question

5:04 p.m. on March 8, 2002 (EST)
(Guest)

a.k.a. Mark in Berkeley

I am wondering if someone could provide me some real feedback on adjustable aiders and/or daisys and how they work off the deck, I'd appreciate it. Are they much better than the standard outfit?

7:19 p.m. on March 9, 2002 (EST)
(Guest)

Re: adjustable daisys

Brian in Condiment Lake City convinced me to try a pair. They are much easier to use than conventional daisys + fifi in most circumstances in my hands. They let you make any length upwards adjsutment to position without the "Bloody fifi, get in there, !@#$ it I just can't make that next pocket!!" syndrome.

On traverses they are fantastic. You let out on the old while taking in on the new placement. You jsy ooze across effortlessly!

Cons:
I've taken some heavy daisy falls on my old nylon or spectra conevntional daisys and they are fine. I'm a bit leery about taking one on the adjsutables so haven't used for really hard aid yet. I'm sure they'd be fine and it's just a head thing but I don't like what the cam teeth would do to the tape. Just me maybe. The only other minor gripe is that if you manage to feed a twist through the buckle its a hassle, doens't happen much, isn't a huge deal and you get better at not doing it with use.

My $0.20

Macca

10:51 a.m. on March 11, 2002 (EST)
(Guest)

a.k.a. Berkeley Mark
Re: adjustable daisys

Macca-
Thanks for your thoughts, I think I will give 'em a shot.
Mark

Quote:

Brian in Condiment Lake City convinced me to try a pair. They are much easier to use than conventional daisys + fifi in most circumstances in my hands. They let you make any length upwards adjsutment to position without the "Bloody fifi, get in there, !@#$ it I just can't make that next pocket!!" syndrome.

On traverses they are fantastic. You let out on the old while taking in on the new placement. You jsy ooze across effortlessly!

Cons:
I've taken some heavy daisy falls on my old nylon or spectra conevntional daisys and they are fine. I'm a bit leery about taking one on the adjsutables so haven't used for really hard aid yet. I'm sure they'd be fine and it's just a head thing but I don't like what the cam teeth would do to the tape. Just me maybe. The only other minor gripe is that if you manage to feed a twist through the buckle its a hassle, doens't happen much, isn't a huge deal and you get better at not doing it with use.

My $0.20

Macca

12:53 p.m. on March 11, 2002 (EST)
TOP 10 REVIEWER REVIEW CORPS
2,329 reviewer rep
5,298 forum posts
Re: adjustable daisys

Macca -

Have you tried the Kong adjustable daisy? It uses 7mm cord that wraps through their plate and cinches down on itself. Brutus showed me this one. I don't do aid (just some "French free" when terror-stricken), and haven't fallen or jumped on one, but you don't have the teeth problem that the Yates has (which I also have). I find the Kong easier to adjust and feed out, although since it depends on friction, I don't use it in really wet conditions or icey conditions (I intend to try it someday under such conditions in some safe place with backups, and will let you know what happens).

3:15 p.m. on March 11, 2002 (EST)
(Guest)

Re: adjustable daisys

Quote:

Have you tried the Kong adjustable daisy?

Bill, do you mean Kong's adjustable fifi hook or do they actually have a daisy like Metolius and Yates? The Kong fifi I've seen is a normal looking hook with a flat plate, s-threaded by 6-7mm cord. Hard to find.

One of those micro-ascenders (WC Ropeman) on 7mm cord works well also.

K

10:39 p.m. on March 11, 2002 (EST)
(Guest)

toothy problem

Whooee, don't go taking any sort of fall, even a small one, on a WC ropeman.

The petzl microcenders are a bit better but are strictly meant for static use only! And, yeah I know daisy-fifi set up is too, but things happen and I know that system will take it. One of those little ascenders will strip the sheath and/or cut the rope before you can say *take*.

Got some scary test data on them somewhere.

Macca

11:23 p.m. on March 11, 2002 (EST)
TOP 10 REVIEWER REVIEW CORPS
2,329 reviewer rep
5,298 forum posts
Re: adjustable daisys

No, I mean their adjustable daisy. The working part is a roughly "L" shaped piece of aluminum, 2 1/4 by 1 3/4 inches. There are 2 round holes in the tips of the "L" with the locker in the one on the longer leg. Also in the longer leg and aligned along it from the corner is a 1 inch elongated slot. The cord is threaded through the slot, then through the hole in the short leg, then back through the slot. Clip one end of the cord into your anchor and the locker in your harness (this is hard to visualize). If you clipped the correct end, the cord will lock against itself when you weight it - no teeth, no clamps. To adjust, unweight and pull in the appropriate direction. And Macca, if this sounds a bit like the "slippery hitch", it is indeed a close relative. But here the plate design forces the crossed cord to stay locked, and locks more solidly if you suddenly weight it. The end knot in the "free" end of the cord prevents the cord from sliding through the plate, meaning there is a maximum possible extension, where it is possible under extraordinary circumstances for the Yates strap to pull through the buckle (admittedly very unlikely).

The Kong fifi is similar to the daisy plate, but with a hook, and a bit thinner.

I agree with Macca about the tooth problem with the Ropeman, the Ropeman II being much worse than the original Ropeman. The same holds for the Tibloc, or using one of the sharp-toothed ascenders (most anything Petzl makes, as an example) in a situation where it might have to hold a fall.

10:47 a.m. on March 12, 2002 (EST)
(Guest)

Re: toothy problem

Quote:

One of those little ascenders will strip the sheath and/or :cut the rope before you can say *take*.

Even with the WC Ropeman? I can imagine sheath damage with a toothy ascender like a tibloc or Petzl Basic, but the WC has really rounded teeth. I'm surprised that it would cause much damage.

I'm still not too worried about using it for a daisy. It's not like you risk cutting the tie-in rope. I have taken a couple of short (less than 1/2 body length) falls on a WC daisy setup with no ill effects. Certainly not a reliable test.

Thanks to you and Bill S for the feedback.

K

4:15 p.m. on March 12, 2002 (EST)
(Guest)

Ropeman data

From (140 page) UK Health & Safety Executive Report into Industrial Rope Access Equipment (2001)...

In practice this type of test is useful to determine the static force at which slippage begins.
The working strength tests were performed on four different ropes: Beal 'Antipodes'
10.5 mm low stretch, Edelrid 10.5 mm low stretch, Marlow 10.5 mm low stretch and Beal
'Apollo' 11 mm dynamic.
Table 6
Back-up devices and forces to initiate sliding on the rope
Force to slip under static load (kN)
Device Rope > Beal Edelrid Marlow Dynamic
Komet Stick Run 3.1 2.5 2.7 2.3
Petzl Microcender 3.5 2.2 3.2 3.4
Petzl Rescucender (>4) 6.7 (>4) (>4)
Petzl Shunt 2.3 2.5 2.5 2.7
SSE Stop & Go 2.1 2.8 2.4 3.4
Tractel Stopfor D 2.5 2.2 2.7 2.5
Troll Rocker (>4) 3.4 (>4) (>4)

Wild Country Ropeman No slippage: cuts sheath at approximately 4 kN
(Macca: NB this is on an 11mm static rope, it will be MUCH harder on a bit of cord)

The Ushba Stop-Lock was not tested: see later comment in section 6.2.4

12:50 p.m. on March 13, 2002 (EST)
(Guest)

Re: Great info--Thanks! (n/t)

 

September 30, 2014
Quick Reply

Please sign in to reply

 
More Topics
This forum: Older: FS: Bod Harness, A16 gtx hat, custom fleece pants Newer: Ten Sleep Wyoming
All forums: Older: mountainsmith expedition backpack? Newer: LEJOG