Headsup on Peztl's 2008 line

12:13 p.m. on December 28, 2007 (EST)
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I've just talked to a rep from Petzl and she gave me there new catalog and told me about their replacement for the reverso and reversino. It's a carbon copy of BD's ATC-XP Guide.

2:41 p.m. on December 28, 2007 (EST)
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It was shown a year ago at the OR Show, and is NOT a carbon copy of the Guide. There are a couple differences that Petzl feels make a big difference. I can agree that they do make a difference in my use of theirs, just not how big. For 90% of climbers, neither the BD or Petzl (or the older Reverso and Reversino, for that matter) are suitable as belay/rappel devices. The plain ATC and other tube devices are more suitable and won't tempt the less experienced into fiddling with the other uses the special designs are intended for.

7:45 p.m. on December 30, 2007 (EST)
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So why, exactly, shouldn't a less experienced climber be tempted into "fiddling" with some of these other uses?

Before I used a reverso, I had no experience with a reverso. Therefore it wasn't suitable? I eventually switched to a reverso from a munter for bringing up seconds off the anchor, because it won't kink rope, and also works fine as a regular tube.

Any climber with an ounce of seriousness will benefit from fiddling, in order to decide for themselves which gear is suitable...

Glancing at the new Petzl photo (I hear that in certain circles, it's been known about, apparently, for a year???)

Looks like you can use it to belay off an anchor, which is a highly desirable feature, but otherwise, it is indeed much the same as the ATC Guide, which I gather is essentially the same as the old ATC, except with a couple of teeth added for friction. Not a bad idea. Somebody I encountered seemed very pleased with the thing.

Come to think of it, the new Petzl device might be a nice improvement over the reverso, due to potentially better friction control. But I'm fairly happy as is.

8:54 p.m. on December 30, 2007 (EST)
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Calamity, don't you have anything better to do than sit around and wait for Bill to post so you can post a counter post?

This is getting rather boring.

10:06 p.m. on December 30, 2007 (EST)
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141 forum posts

You're probably right, in some sense, although I think most of my posts here aren't in response to Bill S.

I'll make an extra-dilligent effort to stay on topic, as I did in my above posting.

So, how 'bout that Petzl 2008 line? I heard somebody saw it in 2006?
(whoops -- sorry)

10:20 p.m. on December 30, 2007 (EST)
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202 forum posts

calamity - You've got mail - your Yahoo

6:52 p.m. on December 31, 2007 (EST)
4,245 reviewer rep
5,948 forum posts

BigSmoke, usually one tolerates feeble attempts at humor, but sometimes a post contains potentially dangerous misinformation that requires a bit of corrective information and cautions. I am aware that some posters who think they are being funny, amusing, or entertaining, may not realize that misleading or just plain wrong "information" falls under the same area that led the manufacturers to attach all those cautionary labels to gear and even climbing clothing.

Turning to the post in question -
Why should a less experienced climber NOT "fiddle" with some of the extended usages of gear? The simple reason, to take the examples of the Reverso, Reversino, B25, Gigi (leaving aside the Grigri and Cinch, which are very different devices), ATC Guide, and the new Petzl, is that while these devices can be used as traditional tube devices, they are also designed to be set up as autoblocking and autolocking devices (these are not the same uses). Improperly used, as stated on the hang tags and other literature from the manufacturers, serious injury or death may result. Inexperienced climbers and others unfamiliar with the use of this type of gear should consult an experienced instructor or the manufacturer. I will note that when the Reverso first came out, Petzl found it necessary to issue special bulletins correcting misinformation circulating in the community about proper use, including releasing a locked Reverso.

An ATC Guide is NOT "essentially the same as the old ATC, except with a couple of teeth..." This is confusing the Guide with the XP. The XP version was designed to provide higher friction and variability for use with the newer smaller diameter single ropes. The Guide has several further modifications intended to provide for autoblock/autolock usage.

Any tube device, whether the ATC, Pyramid, or others, can be used in an indirect belay off the anchor, provided certain precautions are taken (including, but not limited to, a redirect). If you do not understand what that means, you should get instruction from an experienced instructor. Although there are excellent books on anchors and on self-rescue, books are no substitute for proper instruction.

June 28, 2017
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