New Hilleberg

9:27 p.m. on March 28, 2012 (EDT)
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Hi all, hope someone out there can help me.  The Hilleberg Staika & Allak, whats the difference?  One is lighter than the other?  I've been going back and forth with various "al season" tents.  Marmot Thor, Sierra Designs Mtn Meteor, etc.  Seems like everyone keeps saying go with a Hilleberg "if you can afford one."  Based on the cost of Hilleberg the others arent that much less IF less.  Where are Hilleberg's made?  Norway or China?  I think I saw the Marmot Thor and Sierra Designs were all made in China. I'd like to avoid that and just buy something of really good quality.  Thanks for your time

11:55 p.m. on March 28, 2012 (EDT)
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Hilleberg manufactures its tents at a factory in Estonia. 

you seem to be looking for a heavyweight - a winter bomb shelter.  you might very well be happy with any of these.  why not  add Nemo's Alti Storm, the Mountain Hardwear Trango, and Hilleberg's Tarra and Jannu too.  i'm most familiar with the Trango - a great tent, heavy but stable & durable.

The two Hilleberg tents you are looking at have a pretty similar design  with a potentially significant difference.  The Allak saves weight, almost a pound and a half, by using less robust tent material and slightly less robust tent poles.  regardless, these are two extremely solid four season tents when the "lightweight" comes in at over six pounds. 

i think Nemo manufactures in the US. 

12:51 a.m. on March 29, 2012 (EDT)
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Hille Staika- Kerlon 1800 10mm poles.

Hille Allak- Kerlon 1200 9mm poles.

Leadbelly pretty much covered it.

4:52 a.m. on March 29, 2012 (EDT)
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There was a thread on one of the UK fora last year, discussing the fact that some of the Hilleberg inners were being made in the Far East. It might be worth asking a shop to look into the latest stock for country of origin labels.

As regards quality to price ratio, I would say they are made to last and that the designs are sufficient to prevent anyone becoming easily dissatisfied within a few years at least. I don't know if the Kerlon is as 'market-leading' as it used to be but it must be among the best possible fabrics for intended usage.

We have an older (made in Sweden, I think) Hille but also a Terra Nova and an MSR. I would not say that the manufacturing quality is significantly better than these brands. In fact, the top of the line MSR tents, made in China, are probably the best I have ever seen, in terms of construction.

Design is another thing, however. Here is where the Hillebergs seem to shine, having had a lot of thought put into the design and its manifestation in the real world, resulting in tents that seem to please a lot of people.

There isn't much profit being made in shelters (fleece and wpm jackets are where it's at), so they have to charge about the same as a top end jacket for a top end tent. And you don't have a large advertisement (which is not your property, intellectually speaking), as you would with MSR or TNF etc, on the side of your abode.

Saying that, if Vaude made a similar tent, I would be tempted, simply because the price would probably be lower, other things equal. Same for Exped.

If you get a 4 season, you will probably want a 2/3 season eventually and vice versa, so that might be a moot point. I think when you spread the money over the life of the tents, they are going to be worth it as long as they get used. I would be a bit deflated if I paid the retail price of a Hille only to find that it was made in the Far East. And if you want to sell it afterwards, should you change your mind, a tent made in Europe might have more demand.

Jon

PS: I think the resale price maintenance practised by Hilleberg, while not entirely in the interests of the poorer consumer, is actually going to help the smaller shops - especially the smaller shops that are threatened with underselling and that have gone to the trouble of erecting these tents for people to see, answering their questions and so on. And helping the smaller shops increases choice, as monopolies eventually lead to monotony.

3:58 p.m. on March 29, 2012 (EDT)
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If you are serious, you really should get the catalog from the Hille website.  It is very informative.  I have a Soulo and a Keron 3.

4:19 p.m. on March 29, 2012 (EDT)
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On rob's note they also send fabric samples of their Kerlon 1800 & 1200 with a standard comparison material to compare tear strength of the different fabrics as well with the catalog.

They sent me the 2012 catalog. I think they really believe I need to get another tent from them.

I think they may be right... :p

5:17 p.m. on March 29, 2012 (EDT)
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I'm in the same boat Rick. I've got the Unna but the tent line up might be expanding soon. I'm thinking maybe the Nallo 2 GT....we'll see how far the budget can stretch!

Rob-  That is a fantastic tent combo!

9:18 p.m. on March 29, 2012 (EDT)
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Nice thanks guys.  Now do you know of a really good Hilleberg dealer in the US that I can reach out to so I can purchase?  Thanks again.

9:37 p.m. on March 29, 2012 (EDT)
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On of our Senior Member, Vigilguy, is a Hille dealer. You should definitely give him a shout. 

9:46 p.m. on March 29, 2012 (EDT)
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Good suggestion Gonzan. Also you could check out Moosejaw. I bought my Soulo from them.

They are somewhat selective upon what models they have listed on their site.

Last I saw there were only 4 models listed but it varies from time to time selection wise.

On a side note one thing that really stood out to me is that the name of the individual that actually put the tent together is on a tag sewn on the inside of the tent outer.

That is what I call quality control.

10:37 p.m. on March 29, 2012 (EDT)
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I went through the same comparison debate as you, skibum, and I went with the Allak. To paraphrase something I gleaned on these boards:

"...either of these tents are capable of handling the worst weather imaginable. Get the Staika if you plan on being away from your camp for weeks at a time and need the additional snow-loading capacity, otherwise the Allak is the choice."

I do not regret the Allak. It has spent many a night at the top of the Grand Mesa in winter conditions, enduring howling winds, driving snow, and -15F temps, and has laughed it all off, tight as a drum. I don't hunt sheep in The Yukon in winter, or inhabit the south pole, so I got an Allak...

11:02 p.m. on March 29, 2012 (EDT)
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Thanks guys.

Haven't heard of the inner tents being made in the far East...have to check that rumor out.

Far as I know they are all made in Estonia as was mentioned before.

The zippers are most robust in the 1800 tents, as well as the fabric and the floors.  Petra always counseled me, that if weight is not an issue, go with the 1800 shelters.

One point that I have come to realize about the Kerlon fabric, is that the UV margin of safety is quite high, due to the high tear strength because of the triple silicone coating.  Conforting to know that your Hilleberg shelters should last many years with normal use.

FYI...I may(?) have a used demo Allak for sale soon for around $500.   I rented it out to a customer in February and is due to be back here any day.  I am itching to get a new 2012 Saivo to play with, so I thought I'd clean out the gear closet.

Also, PM me if you need a Hilleberg catalog.  I have plenty...and they are a good source of information.

Another thought...this new Anjan model is gonna be awesome. Lightweight and very good ventilation.  They are coming in May sometime and will probably sell out fast.  Those retailers that didn't pre-order some Anjan's ain't gonna get any for 2012.

11:45 p.m. on March 29, 2012 (EDT)
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I gotta ask, has anyone out there who own Hilles ever felt the need to double pole them?

3:43 p.m. on March 30, 2012 (EDT)
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Just checked. No parts of Hilleberg tents are made in China. I do know that the Outer tents are made in Estonia.

5:35 p.m. on March 30, 2012 (EDT)
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I have doubled up on the poles but not out of neccisity, more outta curiousity. I think an elephant coulda sat on it and it would been fine!

6:28 p.m. on March 30, 2012 (EDT)
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rob5073 said:

If you are serious, you really should get the catalog from the Hille website.  It is very informative.  I have a Soulo and a Keron 3.

 Made a mistake, I don't know why I said I have a Keron.  I own the Kaitum 3.  I think I was watching the Unicoi Mafia video before replying to this thread! 

6:33 p.m. on March 30, 2012 (EDT)
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I have doubled up on the poles but not out of neccisity, more outta curiousity. I think an elephant coulda sat on it and it would been fine!

 

Lol. So that would make 4 poles on your Unna right? I wonder what my Soulo would be like with 6...

7:25 p.m. on March 30, 2012 (EDT)
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I'm not looking for a double pole set for my Allak or Akto per se, but I am looking at a larger-diameter (read: stiffer, stronger) carbon fiber sets through Fibraplex.com, and Joe over at Z-packs.com...to essentially serve the same purpose. I think that, being a continuous pole sleeve design, the Akto will especially benefit from a carbon pole. Heck, I might even get another carbon one made to match the stocker's specs, just to shave 6 ounces. A little more of a problem if it breaks in the field, but a three-pound Akto...

7:45 p.m. on March 30, 2012 (EDT)
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I did a bit of searching over on a few Euro sites and came across quite a few convos in regards to the the Carbon fiber pole subject that actually went that route and said that it wasn't worth it due to problems with poles snapping under serious stress(wind/snowload.)

Typically cf poles will snap at the ferrule. My worry with the Akto is that if one was to snap it may punch the sleeve.

I forget the sites. Google Akto cf poles and ya may get some hits.

Look at this link, 10 responses down:

http://backpackbrewer.wordpress.com/2009/09/26/hilleberg-soulo-1-man-tent-a-review/

Here are the photos of the actual break on the poles:

http://aktoman.blogspot.com/2007/05/glenshee-190507.html?m=1

I was actually talking about the Carbon Reflex with an MSR rep over the phone when I was looking into my Copper Spur and he did confirm as well that they have had poles snap and the break was pretty much always at a ferrule as well so I maybe a lil leary on trying this with the Akto.

Then again it may work well. This is just what I have read and what I have learned from doing quite a bit of digging.

I don't think I would be as worried with the Allak being it utilizes half sleeves and clips if my mind serves me right.

To me a 6oz drop isn't worth the risk on a high end tent nor in the field. The potential for failure is there. I can drop that weight in other areas other than one of my main necessities, my tent.

Hille seems to be on top of its game in regards to making the best possible product it can. I think if there were some benefit to using cf poles they would at the least offer them as an option on their site.

11:34 p.m. on March 30, 2012 (EDT)
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Yeah, that's a good point, Rick. I'd have to test it out at a site not too far from my truck...then again, you know as well as I do that some individuals don't handle their gear with as much attention as you or I might. I've heard reports or aluminum poles splitting at the ferrule too, but I can't even imagine what one would have to do to incur such a regrettable situation. In all my years camping I've never split a pole, nor camped with someone who's split a pole...Maybe I've just been lucky?

11:42 p.m. on March 30, 2012 (EDT)
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I haven't had any pole mishaps as of yet(well except a widow maker killed one of my tents about 10yrs back when I was on a dayhike away from my camp snooping around.)

Let's just say if I had been in the tent I wouldn't be here now that is for sure.

As Ralphie said in A Christmas Story when he stepped on his glasses... …PULVERIZED.

11:46 p.m. on March 30, 2012 (EDT)
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When I owned my Akto, I asked Petra about a carbon fibre pole and she talked me out of it.  When they fail, they shatter and can't be repaired in the field.  Not to mention the shards could damage the fabric.

12:13 a.m. on March 31, 2012 (EDT)
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The main difference between the Allak and the Staika is the size and weight.  Allak is 6 lbs 13 oz, Staika is 8 lbs 6 oz.  The Allak is made from thinner materials and I always gravitate to the beefier versions since they last longer and are probably stronger.

Case in point---the Allak has a 70 denier floor, the Staika a 100 denier floor.  Hydrostatic head for the Allak floor is 5000mm, Staika is 7000mm.  And the Staika is 2 sq feet bigger inside than the Allak.  Dimensions---

**  Allak is 51x91 inches.

**  Staika is 56x91.  Must be remembered that the 91 inch length is dubious since the steep angle of the end walls cuts down your usable length (on a sleeping pad with a 10-12 inch lofted bag) to maybe 65 or 70 inches.  When your head is pushing against the top canopy and your feet pushing against the bottom end, you'll know what I'm talking about.

Plus, the Allak uses smaller diameter poles than the Staika.  And a thinner fly.

BTW, if you want a real-world update on the Allak in tough conditions, contact Hoppin John here on Trailspace as he had his Allak walloped recently in a windstorm at 5,300 feet whereby several guyline webbing points ripped off the side of his tent. 

12:20 a.m. on March 31, 2012 (EDT)
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BTW, if you want a real-world update on the Allak in tough conditions, contact Hoppin John here on Trailspace as he had his Allak walloped recently in a windstorm at 5,300 feet whereby several guyline webbing points ripped off the side of his tent. 

 

Yikes.

Where was he at so I know not to go there.

12:32 a.m. on March 31, 2012 (EDT)
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Rick-Pittsburgh said:

Tipi Walter said:

BTW, if you want a real-world update on the Allak in tough conditions, contact Hoppin John here on Trailspace as he had his Allak walloped recently in a windstorm at 5,300 feet whereby several guyline webbing points ripped off the side of his tent. 

 

Yikes.

Where was he at so I know not to go there.

 He was at the Cherokee National Forest Tent Testing Facility, also known as Bob Stratton Bald.  Here's one of his fotogs of the Allaks during the calm before the storm---


larry_storm_003.jpg

Here's an email message he sent me after the storm---I hope he doesn't mind me sharing it---

"Well I can say I have seen one of your wind storms now. Sunday night the storm blew down every tent up there. There were five tents. Most people packed up and had to hike out at 2am in the most incredible wind I have ever seen. Larry and I had our Allaks. The wind picked up his tent and all his stakes went flying off into the darkness. He had to pack up and walk out, had no way to hold his tent down. I had mine staked down with the long easton stakes so it stayed staked but the wind tore my guy lines off my tent and it was beating me in the head while I was laying there. I finally had to pack up and hike out at 4.30 am in rain and wind. Also went thru incredible lightning storm with hail. I have some tent repair to do but feel lucky tent was not destroyed. Having said all that I had a great time. Just wanted to let you know how it was Sunday night."  HOPPIN JOHN.

12:45 a.m. on March 31, 2012 (EDT)
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Woah. That sounds like a spot that I have to list on my definite destination list. Probably will use a bivy for that one(low profile.)

How does your big tent do up there?

1:24 p.m. on March 31, 2012 (EDT)
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Hmmm...guyline attachment points? Now I know where to smear a little silicone...

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