Lowering my Base Weight! Help!!

2:17 a.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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So as some of you may know I am getting ready for a spring trip on the WCT in early May (May 8th to the 15th)  And I have been going through my gear and weighing each piece and trying just what I need and don't need. 

So I am currently at 26lb 14oz, with out clothing and personal items, or food.  I would like the whole thing to max out at 30lb with food and water.  Possible?  Well probably, but money don't grow on trees!!  :D

So here is a basic break down of gear and weight. (it's all in oz's)

Packing parts 6lb 14oz

  1. Backpack: Kelty Redcloud 6650 98oz
  2. Pack Cover/Liner XXL REI 6oz
  3. Stuff Sack (Clothing) 3oz
  4. Stuff Sack (Sleeping Bag) 3oz

Shelter parts 3lb 14oz

  1. Go Light Shagra La 3, with floor, snow stakes (for sand), and sacks.

Sleeping Parts 5lb 7oz (Estimated)

  1. 20 degree Sleeping bag ?? Not sure 40oz (2.5lb estimate)
  2. Synmat 9 pump DLX 43oz
  3. Sol bivi shelter 4oz

Cooking and Eating 6lb 7oz

  1. Nova Stove 11.25 oz
  2. Bruton 20 oz Container & Fuel  18.25oz
  3. Cooking set, w/ Cozies 29.2oz
  4. SS Coffee Mug 9oz
  5. Lileline 1 ltr water bottle 6oz (dry)
  6. 3L Camelbak, w/ fill kit 8oz (dry)
  7. MSR Mini Works 19oz

Survival Gear 3lb 8oz

  1. Maps & Compass4oz
  2. Head lamp & flash lite 7.5oz
  3. First aid kit 12oz
  4. pocket knife & Multi tool 8oz
  5. Fire starting Kit 10.5oz

Clothing and food??  Not sure of those yet, but the clothing is all synthetic and the like so not a lot of weight, but probably 5lb. 

Food is another big item for me, I normally cook a lot on the trail.  By cooking I don't mean making food from scratch, but stuff like instant rice or heat and serve, and food items like sausage, maybe eggs, etc.  Easy stuff but not real light. 

Any and all suggestions are very welcome!!  Come on folks I need some help!

Wolfman

2:40 a.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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You could drop 6-8 pounds easily with different gear.

1.Get a different pack, the Redcloud is far too heavy;

2. Forget the air mattress; get a UL pad (there are some very light self inflating pads or get something like a Ridgerest;

3. Forget the Miniworks, use Aqua Mira or something like it (chlorine dioxide tablets);

4. Get a lighter cook kit and mug-a small titanium kit and a plastic mug will be much lighter-something like the Snow Peak, for example; Get a lighter water bottle;

5. Why do you need a multi tool and knife? Pick one;

6. Just take a headlamp and some extra batteries. Mine runs on AAA's and puts out plenty of light.

7. Lighten up the first aid kit. I'm sure there is something in there you don't really need.

8. Fire starting kit? Take a couple of disposable lighters and a small sparker or waterproof matches (REI sells the best).

6:04 a.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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Assuming you don't want to purchase any new gear you can drop your weight simply by leaving some things at home. Somepurchases can save you alot of weight however. Here are some ideas:

1)I agree your backpack is way too heavy, and i imagine too big for your true needs as well.

2)You can leave that clothing stuff sack at home. Just put the clothes in all those small spaces in your pack. or use a garbage bag to save weight. 3 oz

3)Leave the bivy, why do you need it and the tent? 4oz right there.

4) Your stove and fuel seems heavy, unless you have a need for white gas, you may want to consider going to a canister stove or alcohol stove to save some weight.

5) Post exactly whats in your cookset. It seems way way way too heavy, I recommend bringing one pot that you can use as a mug/bowl also. You can save at least 9oz leaving the mug at home. You could also leave your cookset and just bring the mug to cook in. If you really want a seperate mug they sell some fairly cheap collapsible plastic ones, or you could bring a styrofoam coap, or a paper coffee cup etc. I use my pot as a mug and cook pot.

6) Yes, you could save weight by leaving the miniworks. But I too use the miniworks and it works great and is reliable. I do take a steripen on occassion, which saves alot of weight. But I wouldnt worry too much about this one as it costs alot more $$ to replace.

7) You dont need a headlamp and flash light, leave one at home.

8)Your first aid kid seems big as well, not to knock you on this, but my train of thought is that you don't need to carry the hospital with you, just some basic things that would allow you to reasonably take care of most any problem until you can get to real help. Example: my kit in a nut shell is 3 gauze pads, small roll duct tape, dental floss, sewing needle, assortment of meds, field dressing. My first aid kit is 4.5oz and can handle all your normal scrapes and bruises, blisters, deeper cuts, and god forbid the need to make a splint or a very severe wound.

9) You dont need a pocket knife and multitool. If your have the tool because of your stove then i recommend leaving the pocket knife.

10) Your fire starting kit is astronomically heavy. You should be able to drop it by 7-8oz easily. My fire kit weighs 3.5oz and includes: 1 bic, 1 flint and steel, birch bark, fatwood, 3 3in pieces of a sparkler.

The very best thing you can do if you truly want help lowering that pack weight is to weight each and every single item and post it seperately. Its all those little things that add up.

Just with the few items I mentioned, without making any new purchases and simply leaving items 2,3,5 at home you save 16oz/1lb. It would be even more than that but i dont know the weight of the other items i mentioned off your list.

8:05 a.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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God I wish I had read Tom’s and Jeff’s post before drafting my own big redundant list! Their advise is all good.  Just to drive home some points most folks resist:

  • Ditch the filter!  I know folks like the whole ritual of pumping water all day, it makes them feel self sufficient.  Bessides leavingt the pump home would force them to find an alternative activity to do with all the time no pumping frees up.  The big secret is most backcountry water sources of the west don’t require water treatment.  I bet your venue qualifies.  Research on the web for water quality assays covering your trek.  Taking a filter for protection from little critters on most western venues is like taking a gun for protection from big critters.  Both are unlikely events.  Really, you'll be ok.  In any case, the two step treatment pills weigh lots less.
  • What is in that first aid kit that cannot be substituted with something you already are bringing?  Improvise and you can take this kit (or most of it) out of your pack altogether.  I usually only carry aspirin and other meds, finding everything else can be substituted with stuff already in my bag.
  • Lose some inches around the waist!  Most of us older folks carry way more excess weight around our waist than in our pack.  lose ten or fifteen pounds and that pack won’t feel as heavy.

Ed

8:24 a.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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I agree the backpack seams  to large.

Get rid of the stuff sack for your tent. Instead  fold it flat to fit the backpack.

Your sleeping pad needs to go too. Buy a cheap closed cell foam one. It will be more bulky but will save tons of weight.

Keep the Bivi!

Unless your clothing stuff sacks are dry sacks use plastic sacks. If they are dry sacks keep them. 

You could go with an Alcohol stove and save weight. How many pots and pans are in your set. One pot one pan (lid) Get rid of the SS cup, go buy a cheap thin plastic one that fits inside your cook set. 

Lessen your first aid kit.

Flashlight or Headlamp. Not both. I use UCO candle lamp and a real small wind-up light.

Lighten up that fire starting kit.

I too carry a knife and a small multitool.

Glad you picked up new stakes to go with the tent. And like I said keep the Bivi. 

 

10:49 a.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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Wolfman said:

Packing parts 6lb 14oz

  1. Backpack: Kelty Redcloud 6650 98oz
  2. Pack Cover/Liner XXL REI 6oz
  3. Stuff Sack (Clothing) 3oz
  4. Stuff Sack (Sleeping Bag) 3oz

Shelter parts 3lb 14oz

  1. Go Light Shagra La 3, with floor, snow stakes (for sand), and sacks.

Sleeping Parts 5lb 7oz (Estimated)

  1. 20 degree Sleeping bag ?? Not sure 40oz (2.5lb estimate)
  2. Synmat 9 pump DLX 43oz
  3. Sol bivi shelter 4oz

Cooking and Eating 6lb 7oz

  1. Nova Stove 11.25 oz
  2. Bruton 20 oz Container & Fuel  18.25oz
  3. Cooking set, w/ Cozies 29.2oz
  4. SS Coffee Mug 9oz
  5. Lileline 1 ltr water bottle 6oz (dry)
  6. 3L Camelbak, w/ fill kit 8oz (dry)
  7. MSR Mini Works 19oz

Survival Gear 3lb 8oz

  1. Maps & Compass4oz
  2. Head lamp & flash lite 7.5oz
  3. First aid kit 12oz
  4. pocket knife & Multi tool 8oz
  5. Fire starting Kit 10.5oz

 

You need to pack a little different for the WCT because of the potential for a lot of rain and yet the requirement for a light load to permit moving over the obstacles efficiently.

Packing - the pack is heavy, no question.  I have no comment here except to recommend something lighter and smaller. Rain cover?  I am not a fan of these as you still need to take it off ot access your pack in the rain.  I would recommend instead a garbage compactor bag (2oz) to fill the inside of your pack.  You can put your items that must NOT get wet in the bag and roll it up.  Cooking gear, etc can be placed on top where you are not as concerned about getting wet.

Sleeping Bag - take the lighter 40 degree bag.  Temps won't get below freezing and if you get chilled, wear some clothing that you will bring anyway.

Sleeping Pad - you will be sleeping on the sand so although you could experience some conductive heat loss, it is remarkably comfy sleeping on sand as a base.  So agree with the others - use a lighter pad, even consider a closed cell pad given the sand.

Bivy - Why are you taking this?  If it is for moisture protection, given the humidity, you will likely soak your bag anyway from internal condensation (i.e. from your body).  Just look for chances to stop when it is sunny and take your bag out in the sun and let it dry out.  If it is for bug protection - very few bugs on the beach except for the odd sand fly.  But they disappear at night so not much to be concerned about on the bug front. At the time of year you are going, bug spray is unnecessary.

Cooking - are you cooking or boiling water?  If just boiling water, an upright lightweight canister stove will do it.  You can bring much less fuel then as well.  Consider eating more non-cook stuff.  Plus you have NitNat and Moniques as mentioned in my PM.  Yeah - your set is a good portion of your listed base weight!

Water - do not bring a filter.  Completely unnecesary here.  Just bring AM as the water is clear and delicious.  This is a rain forest after all! I asked a Ranger once if he boiled, filtered or used chemicals when he hiked the trail.  He said it was necessary.  Then pulled me aside and said he never did.  Parks Canada has liability concerns to the general public but after 5 times on the trail, I have never gotten sick.

Water bottles - there is much water on the trail and I would recommend taking a 1L bottle and filling up often but I can understand whey some like the hydration bag approach.

Compass - not needed.  You will get a map with your registration and it is vital only to show you where the campsites are and where the beach access points are.  But otherwise, you won't get lost.

Light - you won't need both a flashlight and headlamp.  Because you are camping on the beach with western views you will always have the moon to provide some light.  Take a Petzl e-lite at 0.9oz.  It honestly will be all you require.

First Aid Kit - is this for the group?  @ 12oz, this is heavy.  Maybe you can list the internals of it.  I suspect you could easily get down to 3-4oz here.

Knife - only if you need to cut food.  Take a small, UL one (I take the Gerber LST II @ 1.2oz).

Fire Starting Kit - for campfires?  Okay.  But a firesteel starter and some lint weighs under 2oz.

 

What clothes are you taking?  List 'em.

 

11:38 a.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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FG is right about the water. But I was told to filter anyway just in case, maybe just a straw filter would work just to be safe.

As you know I'm not sold on your tent in high winds and driving rains. And at this time of year you could still get some pretty bad weather. So to play it safe I would take the Bivi just in case.  I would rather carry 4 oz than have a wet bag. It could rain for 3 days.

12:02 p.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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if he's bringing a tent and a bivy he may as well save some weight and just bring the shangrila without the floor and bug net inner. if the water is really that good quality here you could consider just bringing an eye dropper of bleach if your set on filtering/treating. some of the commercially available stuff works better but bleach is by far the cheapest

12:09 p.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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Wolfman said:

So as some of you may know I am getting ready for a spring trip on the WCT in early May (May 8th to the 15th)  And I have been going through my gear and weighing each piece and trying just what I need and don't need. 

So I am currently at 26lb 14oz, with out clothing and personal items, or food.  I would like the whole thing to max out at 30lb with food and water.  Possible?  Well probably, but money don't grow on trees!!  :D

So here is a basic break down of gear and weight. (it's all in oz's)

Packing parts 6lb 14oz

  1. Backpack: Kelty Redcloud 6650 98oz
  2. Pack Cover/Liner XXL REI 6oz
  3. Stuff Sack (Clothing) 3oz
  4. Stuff Sack (Sleeping Bag) 3oz

Shelter parts 3lb 14oz

  1. Go Light Shagra La 3, with floor, snow stakes (for sand), and sacks.

Sleeping Parts 5lb 7oz (Estimated)

  1. 20 degree Sleeping bag ?? Not sure 40oz (2.5lb estimate)
  2. Synmat 9 pump DLX 43oz
  3. Sol bivi shelter 4oz

Cooking and Eating 6lb 7oz

  1. Nova Stove 11.25 oz
  2. Bruton 20 oz Container & Fuel  18.25oz
  3. Cooking set, w/ Cozies 29.2oz
  4. SS Coffee Mug 9oz
  5. Lileline 1 ltr water bottle 6oz (dry)
  6. 3L Camelbak, w/ fill kit 8oz (dry)
  7. MSR Mini Works 19oz

Survival Gear 3lb 8oz

  1. Maps & Compass4oz
  2. Head lamp & flash lite 7.5oz
  3. First aid kit 12oz
  4. pocket knife & Multi tool 8oz
  5. Fire starting Kit 10.5oz

Clothing and food??  Not sure of those yet, but the clothing is all synthetic and the like so not a lot of weight, but probably 5lb. 

Food is another big item for me, I normally cook a lot on the trail.  By cooking I don't mean making food from scratch, but stuff like instant rice or heat and serve, and food items like sausage, maybe eggs, etc.  Easy stuff but not real light. 

Any and all suggestions are very welcome!!  Come on folks I need some help!

Wolfman

 1) forget your backpack,

2)get rid of your mat, way too heavy. Take a torso length self inflating or a ridgerest (cut it so it's less bulky and use the rest of the foam to make a frame for your new frameless backpack). -60 oz

3) No need for your sol bivy shelter. You already have a tent and a sleeping bag. You sleeping bag may be over rated specially if you have other clothes with you so you can layer (if the lighter bag is roomy enough. -30 to 40 oz

4) you may leave the SL 3 floor at home and use a lighter ground clothes. You're alone so no need for such a big floor. If possible take a tarp instead of the roomy SL3 except if you like comfort. -25oz

5) use a wood/ alcool esbit stove. It's much lighter. Your cooking set looks like my kitchen take one pot and maybe a mug and that should be enough. -40 oz

6) you forgot to mention your clothes. If you have a poncho, there's no need for a pack cover. -5

You may say, you will not be comfy not having all those. During the night you may not be as comfy. But during the day you'll be very happy and less tired at the end of the day.

I forgot the total : -170 oz that's almost 11 pounds

12:12 p.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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No need for a water bottle neither. take a plastic one. You may change it easily along the road. Is the camel bag really necessary?

For food take, fat food, and proteins. It has a high energy to weight ratio.

12:13 p.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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I think everyone has given you really good advice on what to change or an alternative. Nothing I could add to. zThe more you get into longer trips you will look at your gear more and purchase different items to lower your weight. Have a great trip..

 

12:53 p.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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TheRambler said:

if he's bringing a tent and a bivy he may as well save some weight and just bring the shangrila without the floor and bug net inner. if the water is really that good quality here you could consider just bringing an eye dropper of bleach if your set on filtering/treating. some of the commercially available stuff works better but bleach is by far the cheapest

 Good idea! if the ground is wet lay your mat and bag over the Bivi. Leave the net and floor at home.

1:30 p.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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It is funny how quickly the sand absorbs the water and yet, prior to doing so, water will move quickly on top of the sand!  Very quickly.  Bring some sort of groundsheet.

1:31 p.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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Wolfman - PM me again and I will send you my gear list for this year on the WCT.  If you want.

1:44 p.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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I sum up :

For your bag pack if you don't want to buy a new one, remove unecessary itmes, like the framing, the top cover, eventually the belt. If not consider buying a new one. 50L should be more than enough. If there is one thing you should do is to replace this bag. Buy a frameless bag weighing around 1.5 or 2 pounds. 

The second is your mattress. You really should consider a ridgerest 27 $ and cut it. Then you can use the torso part  as your sleeping mat and the small part as a framing. 

I guess you have walking poles (if not buy some, it's an enormous +). Then you can buy a pole extender for 10 box at bear paw wilderness design and leave the SL 3 pole at home.

Replace your bulky cook set.  and use a alcohol esbit wood stove. It's cheap and weight nothing.

With all that you will spend maybe 100 or 150 dollars but it's worth the price. Without replacing your backpack it will cost you 60 or 70 $

1:53 p.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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I wondered about all the water containers as well. I don't see why you'd need a 3 litre Camelbak bag, a water filter, and a 1 litre bottle. And I really hope you're not planning on lugging that extra 4 kilos (8.8 lbs) of water weight all day on a trail where water is readily available!

If you're concerned about safe drinking water, you could either get one of the new Camelbak All Clears (454 gms., 60 sec/.75 litres) and one extra .75 litre bottle. 

Or you could really trim the weight down and carry two light-weight 1 litre bottles and Aquatabs and switch back and forth while treating. I've done that and your max carry weight is only 2 kilos when en route.

3:18 p.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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Hey Wolfman, you received alot of comments already, but I will try to take a different approach. First get fit for your trip, it will help make whatever weight you are carrying seem less.

Your backpack is fine, I have the 5500st and is extremely comfortable, I would leave that as the last thing to change, since you should pick your pack to accommodate your final gear set-up, in a pinch you could just remove the top cover to save you some ounces.

For stuff sacks I use either a head bug net or fruit mesh bags, the later you can just go to the fruit department of any store and ask for the mesh bags for the fruits they throw away, they will give to you free, I have several. 

The only thing I would change on your sleeping setup is the mat, I use a Thermarest Z-Lite, the short version weighs 10.1oz on my scale and you can buy for as little as $17 online.

Your water carrying gear is super heavy, I use two 32oz monster energy drink cans which weigh 1.1oz each and a 2L water container(when water is scarce) that weighs 1.5oz. The Steripen Adventurer Opti weighs 3.6oz, the MSR Hyperflow Microfilter weighs 7.6oz, even if you take everything will still be less than the weight of your two water containers. The water filters will be an expensive change, as both are on the $70-$100 range, but the water containers are cheap!

Your cooking set has alot of potential for weight savings, I would replace the nova stove for a canister stove, there are many choices under 3oz, you will save alot on fuel too. Later you can make an alcohol stove, but you will have less to no flame control and other disadvantages. Also, the cooking pot and cozies, I use a MSR Quick 1.5L pot and skillet, with the lids and everything both weigh 14.5oz, the 2.5L pot and skillet 16.3oz on my scale, I don't use a cozy but I doubt it will bring the weigh much higher. The skillet can be found for less than $30 and is non stick, the pot set for less than $60 for both or just the smaller for $30.

On your survival kit, by removing either the flashlight or headlamp should get your weight down on that. Did you buy your first aid kit or build your own? If you bought one try building your own, get rid of the case and use a ziplock bag, take only the items you are sure you need. For your fire kit, if a small bic liter does not suffice, adding some waterproof matches, a simple fire starter and some cotton balls with lip palm will still get you under 5oz.

Those changes should not reduce your comfort or require any additional skill to use, while still not breaking your bank, the prices I gave you are all for new online btw.  If you give some more feedback we can help you out further.

3:30 p.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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peter1955 said:

I wondered about all the water containers as well. I don't see why you'd need a 3 litre Camelbak bag, a water filter, and a 1 litre bottle. 

 I almost always carry my camelbak and another container. This is for a couple reasons:'

  • I stay much better hydrated when I use a camelbak, which is definitely worth the few ounces it weighs. 
  • A camel back is not an effective or convenient water container for use with cooking, sharing, kitchen cleanup, or personal hygiene. 
  • When you've got a lot of ground to cover with few reliable water sources, or none near camping spots, an extra container is pretty essential. 
  • For 1.2 oz, a Platypus provides a heck of a lot of function and convenience.

But, if shedding weight is king, then the logical choice would be to ditch the reservoir. 

To be a voice of dissent, I do not believe it is wise to have no margin for error on critical items. I think an emergency blanket or SOL bivy, a small extra flashlight, backup fire starting material, etc, are all critically important items as part of emergency preparedness. These are small, light, and can be kept on your person. 

4:07 p.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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gonzan said:

peter1955 said:

I wondered about all the water containers as well. I don't see why you'd need a 3 litre Camelbak bag, a water filter, and a 1 litre bottle. 

 I almost always carry my camelbak and another container. This is for a couple reasons:'

  • I stay much better hydrated when I use a camelbak, which is definitely worth the few ounces it weighs. 
  • A camel back is not an effective or convenient water container for use with cooking, sharing, kitchen cleanup, or personal hygiene. 
  • When you've got a lot of ground to cover with few reliable water sources, or none near camping spots, an extra container is pretty essential. 
  • For 1.2 oz, a Platypus provides a heck of a lot of function and convenience.

 All very true, but you're taking it out of context. While I wondered about the apparent duplication, my biggest concern was that Wolfman might be planning on carrying that much water on a trail where there are many sources of fresh water available. But each litre of water weighs one kilo, and that adds up really quickly when you're carrying a lot of weight.

I've carried an empty bladder, along with a couple of 1 litre bottles, and filled it at the destination for domestic use.

My personal preference is for two bottles, but with the new Camelbak UV system, I think I could get that down to one full and one empty for most of the trips I do.

4:12 p.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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gonzan said:

peter1955 said:

I wondered about all the water containers as well. I don't see why you'd need a 3 litre Camelbak bag, a water filter, and a 1 litre bottle. 

 I almost always carry my camelbak and another container. This is for a couple reasons:'

  • I stay much better hydrated when I use a camelbak, which is definitely worth the few ounces it weighs. 
  • A camel back is not an effective or convenient water container for use with cooking, sharing, kitchen cleanup, or personal hygiene. 
  • When you've got a lot of ground to cover with few reliable water sources, or none near camping spots, an extra container is pretty essential. 
  • For 1.2 oz, a Platypus provides a heck of a lot of function and convenience.

But, if shedding weight is king, then the logical choice would be to ditch the reservoir. 

To be a voice of dissent, I do not believe it is wise to have no margin for error on critical items. I think an emergency blanket or SOL bivy, a small extra flashlight, backup fire starting material, etc, are all critically important items as part of emergency preparedness. These are small, light, and can be kept on your person. 

I very much agree with what gonzan said in his last paragraph.

I think that one day the ultimate UL backpacker/hiker will walk into the wilderness totally naked shedding all gear and clothing in the name of being the ultimate UL'er never to be seen again. There is a point where becoming to UL is just plain dangerous. With that being said much of the time we are over-geared for our forays into the wilderness. Much better IMO to be over-geared than under-geared, especially for those who are new to backpacking/hiking.

4:43 p.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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Apeman - don't stray from the original post.  In general terms you are correct.  In specific terms to the WCT, this is simply not needed:

"I think an emergency blanket or SOL bivy, a small extra flashlight, backup fire starting material, etc, are all critically important items as part of emergency preparedness. These are small, light, and can be kept on your person. "

Peter is 100% right about the water sources.  It is everwhere on that trail.

 

5:03 p.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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Family Guy said:

Apeman - don't stray from the original post.  In general terms you are correct.  In specific terms to the WCT, this is simply not needed:

"I think an emergency blanket or SOL bivy, a small extra flashlight, backup fire starting material, etc, are all critically important items as part of emergency preparedness. These are small, light, and can be kept on your person. "

Peter is 100% right about the water sources.  It is everwhere on that trail.

 

I don't believe I did "stray from the original post", Family Guy. It makes no sense that you say "in general terms your are correct". If I am correct, how am I straying form the post????????

I believe that in an effort to shave to much weight of off necessary gear could be dangerous. We must also remember newbie’s and first time backpackers/hikers also read these posts and they must be aware of the dangers of not having the proper gear with them in their times of need in the backcountry. It is fine to shave gear weight down to the bare minimum, but it could be very dangerous for the newbie’s that don’t have the experience to be able to use the minimalist gear he/she as been lead to believe will server him/her in the backcountry

.

5:05 p.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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Some very good info. here and since there will be two of you, carry one light each and one multitool and one knife between the pair of you. I DO carry a little more firstaid gear than many, I have the training to use it and I also carry more "emerg." gear than some suggest, however, I usually backpack solo.

Don't waste energy packing a water fliter or tablets, the water there is clean and two bottles as suggested is what I prefer. I would never carry my Nova or MSR GK stove on such treks, I have a Snowpeak Litemax Ti stove and carry two small gas containers.

Fire, forget it, it is not needed and is more trouble than it is worth. Fires in parks such as this should be banned, anyway, we have enough trouble dealing with the blazes caused by "camper jockeys" and the hated "quadders."

Carry a signaling device,the little freon horns are just excellent and a loud whistle, these can really assist searchers to locate you in the foggy weather of V.I. if you do have a problem and are light and cheap.

I also strongly recommend a pair of heavy leather work gloves, one of the most useful things I take on hikes. They will protect your hands when grasping brush and also when lifting the one Ti pot you should take from your stove. I never go without these and have often been glad I had them.

5:40 p.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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Excellent points Dewey. One first aid kit for two, split up the fire starting gear. Split up the cooking set one carries the stove, the other carry the pot/pan. And thanks for the mention of the whistle. I never even think about it because its always there with my backpack. There are so many small things that are just always packed that I never have had to use. But I would never think about going out without them just to save weight.

5:42 p.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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apeman said:

Family Guy said:

Apeman - don't stray from the original post.  In general terms you are correct.  In specific terms to the WCT, this is simply not needed:

"I think an emergency blanket or SOL bivy, a small extra flashlight, backup fire starting material, etc, are all critically important items as part of emergency preparedness. These are small, light, and can be kept on your person. "

Peter is 100% right about the water sources.  It is everwhere on that trail.

 

I don't believe I did "stray from the original post", Family Guy. It makes no sense that you say "in general terms your are correct". If I am correct, how am I straying form the post????????

I believe that in an effort to shave to much weight of off necessary gear could be dangerous. We must also remember newbie’s and first time backpackers/hikers also read these posts and they must be aware of the dangers of not having the proper gear with them in their times of need in the backcountry. It is fine to shave gear weight down to the bare minimum, but it could be very dangerous for the newbie’s that don’t have the experience to be able to use the minimalist gear he/she as been lead to believe will server him/her in the backcountry

.

 You are straying because Wolfman is NOT A NEWBIE.

5:46 p.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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mikemorrow said:

I never even think about it because its always there with my backpack. 

I am not a fan of whistles on sternum straps. If you get separated from your pack you are separated from your whistle. 

I keep a REI Tri-power attached to the main toggle on my shell/jacket.

LHHT-January-2012-029.jpg
Plus if you want to use the whistle on your pack ya have to disconnect the sternum strap or be part giraffe. 

5:59 p.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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Family Guy said:

You are straying because Wolfman is NOT A NEWBIE.

In some way, shape, or form we are all newbies. If we weren't we wouldn't have the need to ever ask questions.

We would all have the answers to all of our own inquiries based on our own personal experiences & knowledge. ;)

6:19 p.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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Rick what I was saying is that it is always packed, like my first aid sack. My string is long enough to reach my mouth. If I had to connect it to my jackets I would need 4-5 of them. :P

6:20 p.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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HOLLY COW!!!  Well I asked for it and I got it too!! :)

Some general clarification first; 

Their will be three of us on this trip, none of us know each-other or have hikes together, I know crazy right!  Just more fun.

Water containers, I usually use the camelbak for trail and drinking, I normally mix some flavor pack in with the water.  It keeps me hydrated.  I have smaller ones, but we are planning 7 to 10 miles a day and I was thinking it would last a day.  The 1 ltr hard side container is for cooking and connection to the water filter.  It the Nagena(?) style.  It's also good for washing socks and undies as you hike, about 1/4 water a drop or two of soap and shake rattle and role.  That was the plan anyway.

I will break down the cooking setup and supply weights.  I normally actually use most of my cooking kit, I don't eat the freeze dried stuff and I like to make my food, but I am open to new Ideas. :)

Right now I don't have the sleeping bag figured out.  Both my good bags (0 degree bags) are close to 5 lbs or more, so I am looking for something lighter and not as warm.  Probably in the 20 to 30 degree range, that's why it's a estimate on the weight. 

I have been thinking about a new bag, probably something smaller too.  I guess next year I am going to have a big REI check! :)

Stuff sacks are all waterproof.

Stuff I think I will do:

One head lamp

One pocket knife

rework First Aid kit

New Pack - less then 2lbs?

No water filter!! Oh God what will I do!  Dropper and bleach.  If it sits over night that should be safe anyway.  And the rest would be for cooking.

Leave the tent floor at home, I don't have the nest, and I use trekking poles for the tent pole.  I think I will take a small 4' x 7' piece of plastic just to keep some stuff dry.  Like me.

Somethings Are going regardless!!

OK I know the pad is heavy, but it's almost 3 lbs lighter then my old one and I can actually sleep on it!!  You are all bad mouthing the love of my life!!  :p  So a while back I went through a big process of finding something I could actually sleep on, and this is the pad I fell in love with.  So she's going!!! :D

Other stuff;

Clothing, I will add it tonight, I did not have time last night.  And I will break down the fire kit (It's really for starting camp fires on wet beaches w/ wet wood) and the cooking set. 

I am out of time as I am still at work, but will update later tonight. 

Wolfman

6:27 p.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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I also own the redcloud and it is a mighty big pack but if you still want to bring it consider trimming or removing some of those pesky straps. The thing is lousy with them.  I think the hipbelt could fit a 52" waist. 

6:29 p.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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lots of good suggestions here

6:34 p.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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Wolfman I love your sleeping pad too. If it makes you happy take it. My cook set is large and heavy but it would go with me. What can I say, I like to cook food. But in truth on a 7 day trek I would only really cook only 2 times because I need to keep weight down. And real food weighs allot. So think about cooking the first night and the fourth night.

7:30 p.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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Starting campfires on wet beaches using wet wood makes a hell of a mess and leaves all sorts of partially burned debris that takes decades to decompose. It is also about the most inefficient manner of attempting to "cook" that I can think of, offhand, and I really am opposed to this practice in Canada's National Parks and our BC Provincial Parks for both ecological and aesthetic reasons.

The WCT is a VERY "high use" part of BC and if every hiker built fires there, the cumulative effect of this would be detrimental to the area. This, in turn, will result in public pressure to control the numbers of people allowed to hike there as is the case now in some of our parks.

While this may seem unimportant to some, it is germane to the entire subject of hiking to realize that IF this happens, the next issue will be, as is also happening now here, a movement to restrict access to  these wilderness areas.

So, again, may I politely suggest that firebuilding on the WCT is not really in the best interests of hikers?

9:28 p.m. on April 26, 2012 (EDT)
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Dewey I see it on the Oregon beaches too. When I make a fire I try to use all the burnt wood up. That takes time and effort, even for very small fires like mine. 

1:36 a.m. on April 27, 2012 (EDT)
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Dewey, I fully understand and can appreciate your perspective.  I am not a big fire builder, I almost never burn anything bigger then my wrist and that is only when I or we, have a fire going most of the day.  Both of my partners on this trip want evening fires and I will do my best to keep them small and efferent.  If it is truly nasty and the wood is just soaked, then I feel it's better just to eat a hot meal and hit the sacks.  It's usually warmer anyway.  I have spent a lot on time on the Washington coast and one thing that drives me crazy is to see half burned logs and stuff like trees that someone tried to burn in a fire or set up a fire next to.  I try to LNT as best as I can with small fires and usually just stir up the ashes in the sand the following morning after everything has been burned up.  I know this is not what you are asking for, but I do try to respect the places I hike and the environment I am in. 

OK, Back to the other stuff! :)

Fire Kit; Changed some stuff, 8oz

  1. Fire Gel,  4oz
  2. Lighter and Mag/striker block 2oz
  3. Cotton balls and jelly 1 oz
  4. OR WP bag 1 oz

First Aid Kit; Current weight 12oz (No individual weights - To many items)

  1. Uncle Bill tweezers
  2. Leather-man Micra
  3. Lib Balm
  4. Ace Wrap
  5. Tums
  6. Tape (partial roll)
  7. Needles and safety pins
  8. Neosporin (Partial tube)
  9. Finger nail clippers
  10. Gloves
  11. Q tips
  12. Sing relief pads - 2
  13. Betadine pads - 2
  14. Antiseptic wipe - 2
  15. Alcohol pads - 4
  16. Condoms - 2 Many other uses!
  17. Butterfly bandage - 3
  18. Knuckle Bandage - 2
  19. Sterile pads 2x2 - 4 & 3x3 - 3
  20. Mole skin 3x4
  21. Bandages - small 4, medium 6, & Huge 1
  22. Case Nylon & Zippered w/ separators

OK that's a big list, but I often use this stuff, except the mole skin.  And their is duck tape and plastic tape on the hiking poles.

Cooking Set; all in small stuff sack. 29.2oz

  1. Stove - Nova (packed with kit - not included with weight)
  2. Soap & Cleaning pad 3.5oz (I can probably drop this or at least the soap - Cleaning pad 1oz)
  3. Lighter, 1 cup cup, and stove tool 3oz
  4. Wind screen 3oz
  5. SS 6" pot and Lid 10oz
  6. SS 7" pan / fry pan, no lid 7 oz
  7. Pot & Pan cozies 1.5oz
  8. Stuff sack 1oz

I am guessing these are heavy pans, I don't really know.  I have had them for a log time and they work good for how I cook.  But maybe their is something better with less weight that don't cost to much?

Clothing; In WP stuff sack.

  1. Polypro heavy top 11.5oz
  2. Polypro heavy bottoms 9.5oz
  3. Thin Hiking shirt 6.5oz
  4. WP Rain paints 11.5oz
  5. Wool socks 2 extra pairs 6oz
  6. Underwear 4oz
  7. Air Shield Elite hat 2.5oz
  8. OR Thermal base gloves & Rain covers 3oz
  9. Light weight thermal bottoms 6.5oz
  10. Light weight thermal top 9oz
  11. Coat and removable hood 44.5oz (Columbia titanium)

Some other Items;

Camera & Tripod 17oz (Kodak ZD15 & Little flex tripod)

AAA - 3 & AA - 2 4oz

Sony digital recorder 3oz

Hatchet 14oz

Hygiene kit 1lb 5oz; TP & Clean wipes, Hand Sanitizer, Toothbrush, toothpaste, floss, & bag, Camp towel, Soap & washcloth, Body Glide & Anti Chafing gel, Orange toilet shovel, Hair Brush, and medication.

Current Base weight with Clothing and current changes 32lb 8oz.

Dropped;

  1. Multi knife
  2. flash light
  3. water filter
  4. Shangra La floor
  5. Soap in cook kit

Still to drop or change;

  1. Back pack
  2. sleeping bag
  3. Pots and pan??
  4. Pack cover? (need to find and test my Pancho first) 
  5. Stove system?  Maybe but not really sure.  Maybe just fuel and use one of the others stove.
  6. Coffee Mug

Not really sure what else I can change or drop.  I am going to work with the other two and make sure we are not duplicating each other too.

Wolfman

Any thing I missed or anything else I should look at??

2:24 a.m. on April 27, 2012 (EDT)
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With 3 people, your list is much different from what I would have, since I camp alone. Then again, I go in winter and have towed a sled full of stuff (not pictured in my avatar).

For an emergency light, get one of those tiny lights that you carry on a keychain. $10 at REI.

I agree that a canister stove would be lighter than the Nova-I have one of each and carry the canister stove as a spare. (With a sled, weight isn't a big issue).

Get a couple of those little squeeze bottles for soap or cooking oil. REI has them, along with most well-stocked outdoor stores. Soap like Dr. Bronner's peppermint soap can be used for everything, even brushing your teeth.

http://www.vitacost.com/dr-bronners-organic-pure-castile-liquid-soap-peppermint-2-fl-oz

I know, that stuff smacks of 60's hippies, but it actually works.

Hatchet? Really? If you insist, take one of those wire saws-the ones with the rings on each end.

8:12 a.m. on April 27, 2012 (EDT)
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Based off your revised list here a a few suggestions to shave even a little bit more weight.

Fire kit- Either cut the fire gel to half, or leave the cotton balls at home. either or will still get the job done, so either a 2oz or a 1oz savings

First aid kit- Drop the ace bandage, IMO they are practically useless anyway. Use tape instead. You have neosporin and wipes that do the same thing, so either drop the wipes or neosporin. Does the micra have scissors? if so drop the nail clippers. Cut your quantity of bandages by half, or keep just 1 or 2 in total and use tape and toilet paper if needed. You could also drop the case and use a ziploc

Cook set- Drop the fry pan, use the lid of the pot to fry in. Its more challenging but works good, especially if your not gonna be doing alot of frying.

Clothing- What are the expected temps? You may be able to get away leaving the heavy polypro pants at home. For me unless its really really cold my legs are usually just fine. You can always wear your rain pants for added warmth. You also may be able to get away without the polypro top depending on temps.

Hygiene- Body glide and anti chaffing gel? drop camp towel or wash cloth, drop toilet trowel-use a stick, rock, or even your hatchet handle.

Speaking of the hatchet, do you really need this? My thought is if you cant break it by hand it doesnt need to be burned. An alternative is a light weight saw.

11:53 a.m. on April 27, 2012 (EDT)
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Tom, I do use Dr. Bronner's peppermint soap, have you used it to brush your teeth?  May my mouth was on fire for half the day!  :D  I don't think I will do that again.  But it is good soap.

Thanks Rambler, I will look at the first aid kit and see if I can cut it down to about half the weight. 

The lid on my pot is not that kind of lid, it's just a lid, so that would not work.  But I am going to look at some other kits. 

Your probably right on the heavy poly, it would need to be really cold to hike in that stuff.  And the light stuff is great for sleeping in.

I had a bad experience with chaffing earlier this winter, so I am probably a little gun shy on that.  I wish I could find some smaller squeeze tubes to transfer some of this stuff to, but I have not found anything yet.  I am going to keep looking. 

The hatchet is for splitting and making kindling, not for cutting wood.  It's the smallest one I have found and very light for a hatchet.  But maybe it's not something I really need.  I do have a sharp knife.  I think I will leave the shovel back, it is something I just always have in the pack. 

Headed to REI and a few other stores today to see what I can find.  I will update later tonight!

Thanks everyone for the help.

1:49 p.m. on April 27, 2012 (EDT)
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if you want SS cookware I have a msr alpine set I am looking to sell. it's a 1.5l pot, 2l pot, and a lid that doubles as a fry pan. weight of the set is 26oz including pot gripper and stuff sack. think small pot is 9 big is 12, lid 3 or something close to that. going to sell for 20 plus shipping

8:49 p.m. on April 27, 2012 (EDT)
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I disagree about skipping the pack cover, especially in heavy rain areas.  Packs soak up an enormous amount of water.  Some of the older packs can gain 5-10LBs of rain.  Throwing the gear inside the pack in a garbage bag or trash compactor bag is a fine idea.  Do it and be safe and dry.  Take the pack cover as well.  Look into a sil-nylon pack cover.  They're well worth the 2-4oz, particularly if you know you're going to be in the rain.  That tiny amount of weight is nothing compared to lugging around a soaked pack.

I carry older packs, and I ain't giving them up.  I find their comfort top priority.  Your pack might be a bit lighter than the ones I tend to enjoy.

9:18 p.m. on April 27, 2012 (EDT)
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Zeno Marx said:

I disagree about skipping the pack cover, especially in heavy rain areas.  Packs soak up an enormous amount of water.  

 Meh.  Maybe 2-4 oz, which is what a pack cover will weigh.  Not worth the bother.  Your shoulder straps and hip belt get wet anyway and that is where most of the water accumulates and soaks in.

9:56 p.m. on April 27, 2012 (EDT)
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Hey Wolfman, been a while, but I do remember it being pretty nasty tasting. Good for everything else though.

I used a pack cover in NZ in heavy weather to cover a cordura pack. Seemed to work okay, but a liner probably would have been just as good. Mine weighed very little, I still have it around.

10:26 p.m. on April 27, 2012 (EDT)
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A pack cover is a useful accessory on the BC Coast and in most regions of BC.for a couple of reasons. One, is that your pack WILL wet through and this WILL increase it's weight which is an additional drain on your energy.

Another, is that, not surprisingly, the "understory" of most BC forest regions, is VERY dense and the continual interference with your passage by branches, etc, tangling with your pack straps and scraping against the fabric also burns energy for no useful purpose.

The most important issue is the chance of being tripped off-balance by a branch in this manner and possibly falling badly as a result. This, happens, even to experienced hikers-climbers and it is one problem that can and should be avoided. I have had this happen and damned near fell to my death on a couple of occasions, so, all in all, I think that using a pack cover is a sound practice and Dan McHale, for example, offers them in different types-fabrics for his packs.

There are other benefits and I often use pack covers made on a complex sewing machine I bought as a wedding gift for my wife....and, I find they work very well.

JMHO.

11:06 p.m. on April 27, 2012 (EDT)
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Family Guy said:

Zeno Marx said:

I disagree about skipping the pack cover, especially in heavy rain areas.  Packs soak up an enormous amount of water.  

 Meh.  Maybe 2-4 oz, which is what a pack cover will weigh.  Not worth the bother.  Your shoulder straps and hip belt get wet anyway and that is where most of the water accumulates and soaks in.

I would for sure have to agree with Zeno and Dewey regarding a pack cover. Regardless of your shoulder harness and hip belt getting wet you do not want everything in your pack getting wet. Many of the older packs have lost there waterproofness and or did not excel in their ability to repel water. Also, a misplaced zipper flap at the top of the pack can cause disaster if it is not properly covering a zipper and you were hiking in a driving rain. If you were to blow a zipper and still hold your pack together with it's compression straps it will still have a gaping hole that water can enter. These are only the water related reasons to use a pack cover. Dewey covered most of the rest in the above post.

11:08 p.m. on April 27, 2012 (EDT)
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If ya don't want your harness or anything else that has to do with it to get wet just get a larger size poncho to compensate for the added "girth" and wear it on top of your pack, shoulder harness, etc. 

Just be prepared to get stuck to every branch and brier ya come in contact with. :)

11:16 p.m. on April 27, 2012 (EDT)
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4oz = 1/2 cup of water.  A couple of webbing straps could easily absorb that much weight in a downpour or all-day exposure to mist or drizzling.  They aren't quick to dry-out, either.

11:44 p.m. on April 27, 2012 (EDT)
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apeman said:

Family Guy said:

Zeno Marx said:

I disagree about skipping the pack cover, especially in heavy rain areas.  Packs soak up an enormous amount of water.  

 Meh.  Maybe 2-4 oz, which is what a pack cover will weigh.  Not worth the bother.  Your shoulder straps and hip belt get wet anyway and that is where most of the water accumulates and soaks in.

I would for sure have to agree with Zeno and Dewey regarding a pack cover. Regardless of your shoulder harness and hip belt getting wet you do not want everything in your pack getting wet. Many of the older packs have lost there waterproofness and or did not excel in their ability to repel water. Also, a misplaced zipper flap at the top of the pack can cause disaster if it is not properly covering a zipper and you were hiking in a driving rain. If you were to blow a zipper and still hold your pack together with it's compression straps it will still have a gaping hole that water can enter. These are only the water related reasons to use a pack cover. Dewey covered most of the rest in the above post.

 And I covered it in my first post on this thread - use a pack liner and waterproof stuff sacks.  A rain cover is inefficient because A.) it doesn't keep your entire pack dry and b.) you still have to open your pack in the rain to access anything and therefore, need to take the pack cover off.

11:51 p.m. on April 27, 2012 (EDT)
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Zeno Marx said:

4oz = 1/2 cup of water.  A couple of webbing straps could easily absorb that much weight in a downpour or all-day exposure to mist or drizzling.  They aren't quick to dry-out, either.

 This hasn't been my experience.  What you are implying is that your pack, given all of the fabric, could gain 2-3 times it's weight absorbing water.  What pack are you using?

No offence, but that is ridonkulous.

12:59 a.m. on April 28, 2012 (EDT)
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Alrighty then...  Shall we continue with helping this old fat guy and drop the squabbling!

So I went looking at packs and bags today.  Not much at the Alderwood store, but I did get some ideas. 

I have a pack that is VERY light (41oz Jut over 2 1/2 lbs), it is really just a large sack with shoulder straps and a hip belt.  Some foam on the back but that's it. No frame or anything like that.  Dose anyone think this might be a good idea?  It's plenty big and I have used it before for day hikes and the like, but nothing very long.  Is this how the UL packs are made?  Or if their more to them. 

Wolfman

1:07 a.m. on April 28, 2012 (EDT)
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Dude, packs and boots, don't scimp, get them that fit and feel good. Lighten up on everything else. Floppy packs suck.

1:14 a.m. on April 28, 2012 (EDT)
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Wolfman, the suggestions will contInue well after you leave for the trip at the rate this is going :). There is so much wisdom being shared on the thread. I hope my humble suggestions have some value:

Pack: your red cloud fits up to 21" torsos. Did you have it fitted to you? Do you find that it fits you well and is comfortable? You don't have your torso length listed, and since I am a full 4" shorter than you with a 20" torso, I suspect that your torso is longer than 21". IF your torso is that length, then Golite has a 2011 Quest 75L pack on sale in the clearance closet online for $79. That price is silly low. It is light weight at 3lb 1oz - with a frame. Here's the address http://www.golite.com/Ms-Quest-2011-P735.aspx

If your torso is greater than 21", then an option is the Lowe Alpine Ninon 60L pack. It adjusts to 23" torsos (unlike the Golite and most lightweight options), is a Dyneema, is comfy for loads to 35 pounds. It weighs 3lb 6oz. You can buy it at Sierratradingpost.com. Sign up for deal flyer emails and get it for about 50-60% off - $110 or so. Address is: http://m.sierratradingpost.com/mobile/lowe-alpine-nanon-5060-xl-backpack-internal-frame~p~3713g/?r=s~lowe-alpine-xl%2F

These two pack options shave at least 3 lbs off your kit.

I can't blame you for wanting to keep your exped pad. A good night's sleep cannot be overrated. The comfort of sleeping on sand cannot either. if you can, try sleeping on sand before your trip using a closed foam pad or a Klymit Inertia XL pad. You may be pleasantly surprised at the comfort, and both weigh a pound or less (the Klymit pad is super luxe and large). Ive seen the Klymit on sale for less than $100. But away more expensive than a closed cell foam pad. Even if you cant do a trial sleep test on sand, lay down on a beach for a while with a pad and see what you think. You may save at least 1.5 pounds more in kit weight without sacrifice In comfort compared to your other hard ground + exped pad experiences.

For your stove kit. There are many options. Backcountry.com has a 1650 ml Ti lot and sauce pan. It is 6.5 oz with a storage sack. Buy guyot designs microbite utensils at 2.5 oz total and 5 functions in 2 pieces. Titanium can get hot spots, so you need a stove that simmers well. A primus express canister stove works well and is about 3.4oz with a piezo. Just that alone would save you over a pound and still allow you to cook well, while saving fuel weight. If you're not taking the SL3 bathtub floor, then camp on slightly convex sand pad to keep the runoff outside your tent. Yes it's sand, but runoff is still possible. Your tent will hold up fine in anything that region can dish out as long as you can secure the guyouts well enough. I know Mike M disagrees, but our SoCal Santa Ana's couldn't topple my sl2 despite winds that uprooted trees in nearby towns.

Now for your sleeping bag: Get a down bag, like the Sierra Designs Pyro 15 long for about $130 60+% off at Sierratradingpost.com with deal flyer coupon or at departmentofgoods.com. Weighs 3 pounds Nd sleeps up to 6'6". Best of luck in your Quest for lightness.

1:51 a.m. on April 28, 2012 (EDT)
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jad said:

Dude, packs and boots, don't scimp, get them that fit and feel good. Lighten up on everything else. Floppy packs suck.

 Yup.

1:55 a.m. on April 28, 2012 (EDT)
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XterroBrando, too funny on the sand.  As a kid I had no problem sleeping on the sand or anything else for that matter, same when I was in the Army.  But not any more.  Some how I ended up as a side sleeper and my hip will hurt a lot it I don't have something to support my weight.  It doesn't help that I could lose 20 or 60 lbs.  :D

I don't know it I ever adjusted the Redcloud, it just fit and I got it.  Today I was looking at the Deuter ACT Lite 65 + 10 Pack and the REI Flash 62 Pack Both of them look good and seemed to fit.  But I am going to take some gear in on Saturday to check them out further.  

I should have done this a month ago, I would have been able to do more online, but as it is, I am fast running out of time. 

Wolfman

2:01 a.m. on April 28, 2012 (EDT)
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Wolfman said:

HOLLY COW!!!  Well I asked for it and I got it too!! :)

Some general clarification first; 

Their will be three of us on this trip, none of us know each-other or have hikes together, I know crazy right!  Just more fun.

You could invite them to Trailspace.com so they can join the discussion :)

3:10 a.m. on April 28, 2012 (EDT)
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Thanks for your service Wolfman.

I understand your sleeping situation. I'm a side sleeper as well.

3:15 a.m. on April 28, 2012 (EDT)
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Trailspace prides itself on offering members and guests a wide range of information, advice and comments on all aspects of hiking and backpacking.  It also prides itself on civil discourse.  One way it keeps that reputation is by monitoring and managing comments. Aside from deleting spam that gets through the site's spam filter, moderators can and will delete posts that are inappropriate or in violation of the rules. Everyone here is an invitee of the site owner; no one has the right to say whatever they want except the people who own it. If you think otherwise, you are mistaken.

As some of you may notice, there are a number of posts that have been removed from this thread. I took them down because their only purpose was to attack other members.

Passionate advocacy is one thing; hateful, disparaging personal attacks, however, will not be tolerated. The mods here have all been doing this for a long time. We can spot a personal attack a mile away, so please, don't try to put one over on us by being clever, we all know the difference.

If you are unable to contribute to the topic at hand without getting into name-calling or deliberately confrontational exchanges with other members, then perhaps you should try another site or start your own.

 

 

5:26 a.m. on April 28, 2012 (EDT)
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Okay, I am one of the other two joining Wolfman for the WCT and the sole female...

I've got an MSR Whisperlite stove we can use, as well as a two pot MSR cookset....I was planning to bring my SnowPeak Solo Mini Titanium set to boil water for my freeze-dried food.  I don't do fancy when it comes to backpacking and my appetite usually goes down, so I don't eat a lot either.  But it sounds like Wolfman likes much more substantial food than myself or the other fellow.  I'm cool with that, as long as I can boil water...

My base kit is:

REI Flash 50 Backpack

Thermarest Pro-Lite Women's 3/4 Sleeping pad

Kelty Lightyear Down 40F Sleeping Bag (I have a MH Ultralamina 15 too, still deciding which one to take, 2lbs vs 3lbs is the issue and weather forecast too)

MSR Whisperlite Stove w/20oz fuel bottle

Big Agnes Copper Spur UL1 Tent

I'm shooting for a 30-35 lb pack with water and food plus the rest of my stuff.  I'm the medical person in the group and will probably have the smallest first aid kit...if it can't be fixed with duct tape, then I can't help you anyways. :)  I usually carry stuff for blisters, small cuts and scrapes and that's about it. I'm really trying to not carry more than I need...it's a goal of mine this year and I've worked the past year to get my base down to a reasonable weight...I'm happy with it so far.

Anyways, that's about all I have right now...I need to go to bed.  If anyone has any specific questions, feel free to ask.

Oh, and I don't like big fires(it's nice to have a small one, though), and the provincial park is pretty clear about how to dispose of ashes and whatnot so they go out with the tide...LNT at it's best... :)

6:50 a.m. on April 28, 2012 (EDT)
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Welcome to Trailspace Renegade.

Awhile back I said to share the stove, cook set, and first aid kit. Is there a good reason that every one carry their own? 

Renegade,  this time of year I'm still packing my Kelty Cosmic Down 20 bag. It's a little warm but I feel safer with it. My other bag is rated at 52F. I think that the Kelty that you have would be fine but I would have some thermals along. I'm on the Oregon coast so I kinda understand the weather that you people might run into.

Right now we are getting rain, sun, rain, sun, sun with rain about 10-15 times a day. With that you get those 10 degree clouds. Makes some interesting hiking. 

9:08 a.m. on April 28, 2012 (EDT)
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Best idea - share the load.

If there are three people, the lightest option is to have one light-weight three-person tent, one stove with one kind of fuel, one first aid kit, and so on.

I'm about to do my annual Backpacking Prep, and one important aspect of it (as I just told a few people) is working as a team. Each team of two carries half a tent, and splits the weight of the other shared items (stove, fuel, food) between them. That way, no one is overloaded and the individual pack weights can be reduced.

10:31 a.m. on April 28, 2012 (EDT)
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Tom D said:

Trailspace prides itself on offering members and guests a wide range of information, advice and comments on all aspects of hiking and backpacking.  It also prides itself on civil discourse.  One way it keeps that reputation is by monitoring and managing comments. Aside from deleting spam that gets through the site's spam filter, moderators can and will delete posts that are inappropriate or in violation of the rules. Everyone here is an invitee of the site owner; no one has the right to say whatever they want except the people who own it. If you think otherwise, you are mistaken.

As some of you may notice, there are a number of posts that have been removed from this thread. I took them down because their only purpose was to attack other members.

Passionate advocacy is one thing; hateful, disparaging personal attacks, however, will not be tolerated. The mods here have all been doing this for a long time. We can spot a personal attack a mile away, so please, don't try to put one over on us by being clever, we all know the difference.

If you are unable to contribute to the topic at hand without getting into name-calling or deliberately confrontational exchanges with other members, then perhaps you should try another site or start your own.

 

 

 I seem to have missed the antics, however, I am happy to see the above post by TomD and I strongly concur. This site has been usually very courteous and that, IMHO, contributes to both the learning and enjoyment of we who participate and I hope to see that continue.

There are other sites concerned with hiking where foolish sarcasm, personal jabs and snide comments are commonplace and I hope that TS never descends to that level. I do understand the frustration of some usually mellow people here with that tiny minority who consistently make such invidious and usually false comments and I am pleased to see the mods take action on this.


Good on ya, TomD!

11:02 a.m. on April 28, 2012 (EDT)
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RenegadePilgrim said:

 

Oh, and I don't like big fires(it's nice to have a small one, though), and the provincial park is pretty clear about how to dispose of ashes and whatnot so they go out with the tide...LNT at it's best... :)

 

This is a CANADIAN National Park and much of it,especially the WCT is already a very high use area.Restrictions are now in place concerning the numbers of people allowed to hike the trail and, so far, foreigners are allowed to do so.

The cumulative effect of 6000 hikers ...small fires... over a period of some years CAN and, IMHO, WILL make alterations to the intertidal zone ecosystem that are destructive and unacceptable, this is NOT ...LNT at it's best... and open fires should NOT be built in that area.

We now have restrictions on BC citizens using our Provincial Parks and also our Canadian National Parks, due largely to foreign tourist usage. We have limits on our hunting and angling, traditional methods of food gathering here in BC for a great many citizens and these are due to the impact of foreign hunters and anglers being allowed here.

There is a growing movement to ban such usage and also to compel all foreigners to be restricted to "guided only" for ski mountaineering and other such trips. This will happen and sooner than many realize as we are close to an election here in BC and the incoming administration is NOT "friendly" to the giveaway of BC-Canadian resources as the current one has been.

So, with the foregoing in mind, might I, again, suggest that building ANY fires on a WCT trek is not really a good idea? I am in contact with the Pacific Rim Park HQ and am awaiting a printed summary of the current regs. and then will send them suggestions as well as have these published in the "Vancouver Sun".

We simply cannot allow the further degradation of BC's portion of the Biosphere to meet the wishes of hikers and I hope that this is obvious to all here.

1:59 p.m. on April 28, 2012 (EDT)
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Wolfman said:

Cooking and Eating 6lb 7oz

  1. Nova Stove 11.25 oz
  2. Bruton 20 oz Container & Fuel  18.25oz
  3. Cooking set, w/ Cozies 29.2oz
  4. SS Coffee Mug 9oz
  5. Lileline 1 ltr water bottle 6oz (dry)
  6. 3L Camelbak, w/ fill kit 8oz (dry)
  7. MSR Mini Works 19oz

 

#1 - Snow Peak LiteMax Titanium Stove = 2.368 ounces

(-8.9)

#2 - seems light

#3 - MSR Blacklite Gourmet Cookset (don't need all) = 27.008 ounces

(-2.0)

#4 - GSI OUTDOORS Glacier Stainless Bottle Cup/Pot = 5.376 ounces

(-3.6)

#5 - Nalgene 32oz Ultralite Wide Mouth w/ ATB Closure  = 3.872ounces

(2.1)

#6 - seems light

#7 - SteriPEN Adventurer Opti Water Purifier  +

      - SteriPEN FitsAll Filter                                = 6.128 ounces

(-12.9)



= 29.5oz lighter = roughly 1.8lbs lighter for  Cooking and Eating items




             

2:17 p.m. on April 28, 2012 (EDT)
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Do a little searching and readin ultra light camping forums.

Buy from a store that easily returns products.

Take products home and weigh on digital kitchen scale.

2:18 p.m. on April 28, 2012 (EDT)
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Callahan said:

Do a little searching and readin ultra light camping forums.

Buy from a store that easily returns products.

Take products home and weigh on digital kitchen scale.

Why not just take the scale with you instead of wasting the gas to make multiple trips?

I once again have to recommend reading The Ultimate Gear Guide by Andrew Skurka. 

http://www.trailspace.com/gear/national-geographic/the-ultimate-hikers-gear-guide/#review24867

If ya want to lower your base weight this is a great place to start. 

Well worth the $20 cover price.

2:42 p.m. on April 28, 2012 (EDT)
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I second The Ultimate Gear Guide, and also highly recommend Ultralight Backpackin' Tips:

http://www.trailspace.com/gear/falcon-guides/ultralight-backpackin-tips/

3:13 p.m. on April 28, 2012 (EDT)
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Dewey makes a good point regarding fires and restricting usage. As much as we may think that our impact is minimal, if you multiply it by thousands of users, it adds up. Americans often do not like seeing restrictions, reservations and regulations. That may have been possible in the days when usage was not what it is today, but preservation is just as important, if not more so than access.

Yosemite is a good example-millions of visitors a year means serious impact on the environment. Fires are severely limited in California, mostly due to fire danger. Take a stove-more efficient, less impact and safer.

3:21 p.m. on April 28, 2012 (EDT)
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Sometimes we need to rise above and beyond regulations.  We need to step up to the responsibility before the bureaucracy gets to the task.  We shouldn't need rules and "their proof" to know what is best.  It's like waiting for the financial market to correct itself and dictate our habits then.  By then, it is often too late.

Fires are primordial.  It's unfortunate that we live in a time when we have to manipulate our nature for nature, but here we are.

4:01 p.m. on April 28, 2012 (EDT)
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There are, as there should be, lots of places in the BC Provincial Park System and in Canada's National Parks, to have campfires and enjoy what is so natural for we humans. The issue that concerns me here is that the usage of BC's once empty and un-travelled wilderness has increased enormously in the past two decades, especially and many people simply do what the "regs" permit and these "regs" are currently out of date.

The charcoal remnants of Neolithic fires are being found on the BC Coast in archaeological excavations and these are dated to some 13,000 years ago. Sea water can and does preserve certain substances far longer than one might expect and what can  happen is the "smothering" of crucial habitat for the tiny organisms that are the basis for the sustaining food webs of the Pacific Salmon and so many other vital components of the intertidal and marine ecosystems.

That is why this is so important to me and I apologize for the "hijack" of the thread, but, I honestly think that we all need to consider such issues.

It gives me considerable joy to see others here as above comment to the same ideal.

4:02 p.m. on April 28, 2012 (EDT)
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Wolfman, I would like to correct the stated weight for the Guyot Designs Microbite utensils. They are .78 oz not 2.5.

5:03 p.m. on April 28, 2012 (EDT)
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Want an even cheaper and better book to get your pack weight down? Check out Lighten Up! by Mike Clelland.

I will once again strongly advise you against changing your backpack prior to tackling everything else such as your cooking system, carrying less and lighter clothes, trimming your survival gear stuff and sharing things with your partners as previously suggested.  What you don't want to end up doing is buying a new backpack, and find out that all the stuff you are taking will not fit in it, or be less comfortable than with your heavier pack! Lightweight backpacks are meant to carry lightweight gear. Most likely you will be carrying around 10-15lbs of food and water for the trip, make estimations of your final inside the pack weight and see if the comfort rating of the lightweight backpacks you've been looking match that.

Another thing, lay all your gear down and start picking it apart. Think of what YOU want to leave behind or are willing to change, and use our advice to question your gear.  Don't leave something behind that might jeopardize your enjoyment of the trip, that should come first!

Me and my wife are working on a trip to Yellowstone, we are putting an excel sheet together with all the gear, clothing and food we are taking (and their weight) for 8 days, if you like send me a msg with your e.mail and I will send it to you, might help to compare gear and see the potential of where you can save some weight.

 

8:54 p.m. on April 28, 2012 (EDT)
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I lightened my overall kit weight first, then bought the pack to fit everything in it...that's what was advised to me by the fine fellows at Next Adventure in Portland and the advice has served me well.  This also forces me from taking things I "might" need.  It just won't fit.

As for shared gear, we have discussed this already amongst ourselves...I prefer to sleep in my own tent and it only weighs 2lbs and some change...we have some dietary differences, so it's easier to let everyone handle that on their own...we are sharing water filters/SteriPen and probably will figure something out for the first aid kit.  We've treated this trip as a group of people traveling together, but being self-sufficient with minimal shared gear.  Wes and I both have lightweight kits...Wolfman is working on it and I thank you all for the wonderful advice.

Also, I joined this forum to assist Wolfgang in his preparation for the WCT. I will not be participating in the thread drift.  Sorry. I just don't have the time or energy, the weather is too nice and I've got hiking to do (working towards a goal of 500 miles this year)!

9:24 p.m. on April 28, 2012 (EDT)
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Drift what drift, oh the man fire good bad thing, that's just people expressing their opinion.  :)  You all know what they say. 

So back to the old man trying to lose weight, Yes ED I know I need to do that too! :D Went to REI again...  and did not really like the two packs I was looking at when I put 30lb in them, and I don't think I am going to get to 30lbs, it probably will be closer to 40 total. 

But I found a clearance pack, the REI Ridgeline 65.  It's lighter and smaller then my redcloud so I am going to try to load it up and see how it feels. 

Weight is 4lb 8oz, not a great saving but still 2 lbs.

I decided not to get a sleeping bag and am going to use a bag I got for my daughter.  It's called a Ridge 20+, it weighs 3 lb 10oz, more then I would like but less then what I am currently using.  I sleep in it last night and the fit was good.  I am going to sleep outside and see how that works. 

I have also dropped some other items and am looking at dropping the stove and just taking some extra gas.  But as of right now,  I am at Just under 27 lbs, with out food and water.  Hoping to get to 25 but we'll see. 

Again thanks for all the help and input. 

Maxx, I am doing the same thing, I use one I got from Eric the Black's web site. 

Wolfman

2:21 a.m. on April 30, 2012 (EDT)
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My thoughts on lightening your load...

Sol bivy...delete it.  You are carrying a tent.  Change the 43oz pad/pump for an XL neoair.  Savings in your sleep system is 2.5-3 lbs.

Cooking...there are many stove lighter than the Nova.  For 1 or 2 people a jet boil will do just fine.  And the weight includes a pot.  Youi can replace nearly 4lbs of stuff with something less than 1lb.  And this for ~$120.

The camelback bladder can be replaced with 3 1-liter playtpus (shave a few ounces) and the MSR mini can be replaced by a frontier pro.  This filte exchange will trim another pound. 

All said you can redo your 6.5 pound "eating" gear and save about 5 lbs.

Next look at your survival gear.  There is better than 2 lbs of opportunity here.  Take only the map section you need (yes, cut the map if necessary).  Unless you need to hike at night, replace the headlamp and flashlight with a UL LED lamp.  My Princeton Scout headlamp, minus the strap, weighs maybe 2 oz and is more than enough light for use around camp.  Multitool weight can be halved with a mini or micro leatherman.  Fewer tools but all that you need.  First aid kit...mine is tape, a couple blister pads, a safety pin, small tube of antibacterial ointment, a few meds, and 2 shop towels (quartered).  About 3 oz.  I've never used all of it on any one trip.  Firestarting... a sparker and a few cotton balls dipped in vaseline.  1 oz. 

Maybe 2 pounds of opportunity in all.

Without touching your pack, sleeping bag, and tent, there is about 10 lbs of weight shaving opportunity.

 

 

 

  • Maps & Compass4oz
  • Head lamp & flash lite 7.5oz
  • First aid kit 12oz
  • pocket knife & Multi tool 8oz
  • Fire starting Kit 10.5oz
11:33 a.m. on April 30, 2012 (EDT)
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Rick-Pittsburgh said:

Why not just take the scale with you instead of wasting the gas to make multiple trips?

 most stores, as I have experienced, don't like someone coming in with a scale and neither removing products from their packaging

9:08 p.m. on May 1, 2012 (EDT)
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Im kinda a newbie, but I have one thing to offer. I carry a highgear adventure tool. I dont know the weight but its light and its on a lanyard. I has a light,compass,whistle,mirror,magnifying glass,thermometer and a clock. As a bonus it has a small waterproof storage area. This is my last resort fire kit. I have four strike anywhere waterproof matches and two sol little tinder things. They arent cheap but they will light every time in almost any weather conditions.

12:44 p.m. on May 2, 2012 (EDT)
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So instead of knowing it's somewhere between really, really cold and WAY too cold, you'd be able to know exactly how cold it is? And you'd know how much longer you have to wait until you get rescued?

Just kidding. ;-)

There is a role for those little pre-packaged kits, but if you have enough experience you can tailor them to suit your own terrain and conditions. The 'ten essentials' is a good place to start, and you can build your emergency kit from there.

5:43 p.m. on May 2, 2012 (EDT)
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I like the mirror part, that way you can watch as you turn pale bule, then white, and then the frost start to form on your skin.  About then it takes a lot to keep watching.....  :)

Sarcasm at it best. :p

7:39 p.m. on May 2, 2012 (EDT)
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hotdogman said:

..This is my last resort fire kit. I have four strike anywhere waterproof matches and two sol little tinder things. They arent cheap but they will light every time in almost any weather conditions...

May I suggest the times you most need a fire starting kit to work are the very conditions that four strike anywhere matches are insufficient.  Wind has a way of blowing out matches.  Moisture has a way of making striking objects unsuitable.  Replace those matches with something that is a good source of sparks - even when wet - or a piezo electric lighter such as a hurricane lighter.  I do not know what "sol little tender things" are, but these may need to be replaced too.  The object is to have a system that can be totally immersed, then capable of producing a sustain significant flame under windy wet conditions.  Check this thread for some good fire starting kit advice.

Ed

7:44 p.m. on May 2, 2012 (EDT)
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Callahan said:

Rick-Pittsburgh said:

Why not just take the scale with you instead of wasting the gas to make multiple trips?

 most stores, as I have experienced, don't like someone coming in with a scale and neither removing products from their packaging

I have never really had a problem with it. Unless there is a factory seal on the packaging(electronics,etc) it shouldn't be a problem unless of course the store really doesn't care about selling the product in the 1st place. 

Not any worse than trying out a bag, a tent, or filling one of the packs off of the rack with your gear to see if it fits...

Or sticking your feet in a pair of boots for that matter. If its a smaller item such as maybe a head lamp that is in the sealed packaging I know the REIs here have display models so you can get a little hands on with them. 

So there wouldn't be a problem with that. Ask if they have an opened/returned product in the back you can take a look at. 

Ya may be surprised what a little inquiring will get ya. 

If ya look at Wolfman's list most of it is larger items that can be weighed being if anything they come in boxes that can be opened/closed, etc. Not smaller items such as an emergency whistle in the clear, sealed, plastic packaging that ya have to cut open. 

8:34 p.m. on May 2, 2012 (EDT)
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Its not a little prepackaged kit. Its a little plastic thing with all those things on it. Some of you are pretty sarcastic for no good reason. Do you treat people this way in your real life. Those matches have been it there two years, the little sol tinder things are packaged tinder bundles that wont get wet. In response to some of those comments, I put the whole thing under water for five mins to see if it would leak. It didnt. Then I took out a match and a tinder bundle, soaked them for five mins. Lighted first strike on the serrations of my knife. The matches are dipped in wax and the little tinder things are impregnated with something to make them waterproof. The matches are made for survival not something from walmart. I carry several kinds of fire starting devices these work everytime in almost any weather conditions. Sorry my comment wasnt up to your standards wont happen again.

9:15 p.m. on May 2, 2012 (EDT)
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The matches are proforce brand. They are used by nato. Look on youtube, greenbeetlegear.com gives a good review. You cant blow them out or put them out by dipping them in water. If you open your mind you might learn you dont know everything.

9:18 p.m. on May 2, 2012 (EDT)
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The matches are proforce brand. They are used by nato. Look on youtube, greenbeetlegear.com gives a good review. You cant blow them out or put them out by dipping them in water. If you open your mind you might learn you dont know everything.

 

Who are you referring too?

9:30 p.m. on May 2, 2012 (EDT)
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Not you. Read the comments it should be obvious who was making constructive comments and who was posting pointless sarcastic comments. Rick you are one of the guys I respect on here. You dont waste your time bashing people who are trying to help. Right or wrong everyone has a opinion. Those matches are amazing, you guys should try them. Sorry if you were offended rick wasnt pointed at you at all.

9:35 p.m. on May 2, 2012 (EDT)
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No apology needed man. I was just a bit confused by where everything was going as a whole more than anything else. ;)

10:18 p.m. on May 2, 2012 (EDT)
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hotdogman said:

Im kinda a newbie, but I have one thing to offer. I carry a highgear adventure tool. I dont know the weight but its light and its on a lanyard. I has a light,compass,whistle,mirror,magnifying glass,thermometer and a clock. As a bonus it has a small waterproof storage area. This is my last resort fire kit. I have four strike anywhere waterproof matches and two sol little tinder things. They arent cheap but they will light every time in almost any weather conditions.

Is this the Adventure Tool you are referring too hotdogman?


HighgearAdventureTool_2.jpg

http://www.trailspace.com/gear/highgear/adventure-tool/


 

10:36 p.m. on May 2, 2012 (EDT)
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It is. The waterproof compartment is on the back. I carry this as a backup. I have the ten basics in my pack. I wear it around my neck should I ever get seperated from my pack. The matches are proforce. Lots of videos on youtube showing how well they work.

10:38 p.m. on May 2, 2012 (EDT)
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hotdogman said:

The matches are proforce. Lots of videos on youtube showing how well they work.

These matches?

http://www.epinions.com/reviews/proforce-survival-matches-25-tube-bulk-pack

10:59 p.m. on May 2, 2012 (EDT)
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Those are the ones. They work pretty good huh? Im only a newbie to ul backpacking. Ive paddled three hundred rivers in my kayak. Those matches have rolled around all day in a inch of water in the bottom of my boat,then lit my stove at night. Thanks for posting these Rick. Im on my phone and dont know how. Maybe somebody will find these useful.

11:09 p.m. on May 2, 2012 (EDT)
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I have some "generic" waterproof matches from REI in my pack.  Maybe I'll get some of the Proforce ones instead.  I haven't yet built a campfire while backpacking in the Sierra, but it would be good to know I could if I really needed it.

11:13 p.m. on May 2, 2012 (EDT)
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I have used them and I will state for the record they are NOT your typical "strike anywhere" match. 

Which reminds me I need to get another pack of these things. 

11:37 p.m. on May 2, 2012 (EDT)
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hotdogman said:

Its not a little prepackaged kit. Its a little plastic thing with all those things on it. Some of you are pretty sarcastic for no good reason. Do you treat people this way in your real life. Those matches have been it there two years, the little sol tinder things are packaged tinder bundles that wont get wet. In response to some of those comments, I put the whole thing under water for five mins to see if it would leak. It didnt. Then I took out a match and a tinder bundle, soaked them for five mins. Lighted first strike on the serrations of my knife. The matches are dipped in wax and the little tinder things are impregnated with something to make them waterproof. The matches are made for survival not something from walmart. I carry several kinds of fire starting devices these work everytime in almost any weather conditions. Sorry my comment wasnt up to your standards wont happen again.

 Thankyou for the valuable tip on these matches, I had never heard about them and I have a bit of experience with fires in the wilderness. We can all learn valuable info. from each other and some of the most useful tips I have read on the internet have come from relative novices. so, do not be disheartened by a little joking around.

This site, sometimes attracts sarcastic and immature people and it can be a real PITA when you are genuinely trying to help others. However, TS is "lightyears" beyond any other backpacking site I have ever seen and almost everyone here, especially the regulars, are very decent, helpful and friendly people.

There is not a single member here that I can think of,whom I would not be pleased to invite into my home and some here are among the most knowledgeable folks on self-propelled outdoor activities I have even encountered.

So, bud, take 'er easy, you will, I think, soon find all of us to be your friends and good people.  :)

11:48 p.m. on May 2, 2012 (EDT)
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Dewey said:

We can all learn valuable info. from each other and some of the most useful tips I have read on the internet have come from relative novices. so, do not be disheartened by a little joking around.

There is not a single member here that I can think of,whom I would not be pleased to invite into my home and some here are among the most knowledgeable folks on self-propelled outdoor activities I have even encountered.

So, bud, take 'er easy, you will, I think, soon find all of us to be your friends and good people.  :)

 +1. :)

8:48 a.m. on May 3, 2012 (EDT)
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Hotdog,  My sarcasm was not really directed at you or the item you are talking about.  It was just some smart mouth comment.  I have seen several devices like this one before and even some that were homemade.  I personally don't have one, but I don't think their a bad idea. 

As for matches, I have given up on matches, the strike anywhere ones are junk now days.  I have looked at storm matches before, but I really like a little lighter.  I have never had a problem getting something lit with a lighter.  I usually carry more then one.  But to be fair, I have not soaked them in water either.  Maybe I should try that.

Wolfman

1:20 p.m. on May 3, 2012 (EDT)
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Storm proof matches, 1 set, would be a great back up.

Just make sure your stove / fire is ready for lighting as once lit they produce an awesome flame. stick them under water/sand and pull them out and they are still burning.

so make sure to be careful with the match until it extinguishes


2:39 p.m. on May 3, 2012 (EDT)
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hotdogman said:

 Some of you are pretty sarcastic for no good reason. Do you treat people this way in your real life.

 Easy, buddy. No offense intended.

We were just teasing, but it can be hard to catch that in an electronic format. That's why I also wrote "Just kidding".

Everybody has their own opinion of what's most helpful in an emergency kit, but buying one complete at least gets you headed in the right direction. Good for you, for understanding the importance of considering the risks you might run into.

6:29 p.m. on May 4, 2012 (EDT)
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I saw a guy carry a telescopic lighting rod into the wilderness, just in case he needed to start a fire in an downpour. He boasted that it would never fail in wet conditions. I never saw him again...

;)

Seriously though, those ProForce matches are pretty impressive. Will have to get some.

12:20 p.m. on May 6, 2012 (EDT)
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HI ALL!! 

Just wanted to give a final update before the up coming WCT trip.

I got my base down to 26 lbs, plus a probably 2 lb for stove and fuel!

I deiced to make an Alcohol Stove and do that this trip.  It is something I have wanted to try and what the heck, never like now! I am still working on a few designs and will go with the best one, what ever that means! :D

Overall I dropped more then 10lbs in this process, I think closer to 15lbs.  I really wanted to say thanks to everyone for all the help and suggestions.  It really did help.  Even if some of it was conflicting!  It really got me thinking about what I use and what I really needed and what I just take to take.  :)

So here is my updated list if anyone want's to make any final comments. :p

(To bad their is not tables, hint, hint. )

  • Backpack,  Ridgeline 65,  69oz
  • WP Stuff sack, Clothing, 3oz
  • Shelter, Shanghai La 3, 27.3oz
  • Stakes, SMC Snow stakes & string, 9.5oz
  • Blue Pad,  Blue Pad Seat & Pillow, 7oz
  • Sleeping Bag, River 20+, plus WP stuff sack, 62.3oz
  • Sleeping Pad, Synmat 9 pump DLX, 42.2oz (probably to heavy, but sleep is Great!)
  • Sleeping Bag Cover, Sol bivy shelter, 3.9oz (4 oz for piece of mind)
  • Fleece Top,  Pull over top, 11.8oz
  • Heavy Jacket, Columbia Titanium Rain Jacket, 19.3oz
  • Hiking Shirt, Thin Hiking shirt, 6.3oz
  • Socks, WP Socks, 1.8oz
  • Shell Pants, WP Rain slicks, 11.5oz
  • Hiking Socks, Wool socks 2 extra pairs, 6.1oz
  • Underwear, underwear, 3.7oz
  • Warm Hat, Air Shield Elite, 2.4oz
  • Gloves, OR Thermal base & Rain covers, 2.9oz
  • Thermal bottoms, Light weight, 6.5oz
  • Thermal Top, Light weight, 8.4oz
  • Shoes/Boots, Water shoes, 24.2oz
  • Cook Pot, Cook pot, lid, lighter, cleaning, & Cozy, 14.5oz
  • Mug, GSI Mug, 2.8oz
  • Water Bottles, Lileline 1 ltr, 5.8oz
  • Water Bladder, 2L Camelbak, 5.6oz
  • Trail Maps/Guidebook 2oz
  • Compass 1.1oz
  • Light Head lamp & glow light 4.3oz
  • First Aid Kit 8.3oz
  • Fire Starter Fire Kit 4.5oz
  • Toilet Paper TP & Clean wipes 2.5oz
  • Hand Sanitizer Hand Sanitizer 2.1oz
  • Toothbrush Toothbrush, toothpaste, floss, & bag 2.5oz
  • Camp Towel 1.2oz
  • Soap & washcloth 2.1oz
  • Body Glide & Anti Chafing gel 3.5oz
  • Hair Brush 1.7oz
  • medication 0.8oz
  • Camera 12.7oz
  • Spare Batteries 2.7oz
  • Digital Recorder 2.7oz
  • Camera Tripod 4.1oz

Some of the weights changed for the same item because I got a nice digital postal scale, it's very nice, too bad it was so dang expensive!!

Again thanks for all the help and I will let everyone know how the gear selection went with the trip report! 

Wolfman

1:45 p.m. on May 6, 2012 (EDT)
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Wolfman said:

  1. SS Coffee Mug 9oz

Wolfman

 Snow Peak Titanium Mug with HotLips wt.3oz

8:16 p.m. on May 6, 2012 (EDT)
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Ha got that beat Callahan!  My new GSI Solo mug is 2.8oz!  I looked at some of the Titanium mugs and pots but I am not convinced yet, they are not very cheep!  :)  Maybe when I need a new kit.

Wolfman

7:48 a.m. on May 7, 2012 (EDT)
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Good job! So get going!

See you on the trails!

9:06 a.m. on May 7, 2012 (EDT)
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Just a tip for alcohol stoves. You may want to just make a simply cat can/super cat stove. They dont need a pot stand, and are very very simple to make. Just need a paper hole punch and a 30 cent can of cat food.

I have made several designs, but still prefer the simplicity of the super cat stove.

9:31 a.m. on May 7, 2012 (EDT)
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Thanks Rambler.  I built 4 or 5 different stoves, some of my own design, :D  but none were that great.  One of the issues I was having is that my pot is rather large and wide so it was not stable on any of the stoves and I had to build a pot stand to support it.  This worked OK with the stoves that burned from the top but not so goo on the side jets.

I figured out a lid for the "cat" style stove and now that works fairly well, still takes about 9 min to boil two cups on 1 oz of fuel, but I can live with that. 

Wolfman

9:57 a.m. on May 7, 2012 (EDT)
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I made pop can stoves for years. I finally broke down and got the Trangia. Along with this stand.

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mojo-Pot-Stand-for-Trangia-Alcohol-Stove-/130679165757?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e6d15d33d

Add a windscreen and you will never look back.

I know it's fun building alcohol stoves. But in the long run you will end up passing the Trangia, and stand, down to your grand kids.

11:00 a.m. on May 7, 2012 (EDT)
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9 mins is about average for an alcohol stove Wolfman, I think even with optimal conditions and a windscreen the best you will ever see is about 6-7 mins. I tend to average around 7-10mins for 2-3 cups. I use a windscreen also.

You can make a super cat style stove with a tuna can if you are trying to use it with a wider pot that makes the supercat unstable. I did that for my MSR alpine set, and it worked great.

Check out Zelph stove works, he makes alot of very nice quality stoves. I love his work, and his prices are pretty good too I think.

http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/

1:39 p.m. on May 7, 2012 (EDT)
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Wolfman said:

Ha got that beat Callahan!  My new GSI Solo mug is 2.8oz!  I looked at some of the Titanium mugs and pots but I am not convinced yet, they are not very cheep!  :)  Maybe when I need a new kit.

Wolfman

 Link please ?

I did do a search though unsuccessful.  I am interested and it would be great if you werer able to provide a link to pic/specs/retail location.

Many thanks

5:08 p.m. on May 7, 2012 (EDT)
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Sure Callahan!


f85d0068-3456-4e3b-ac78-0b6f7a506456.jpg

I got this set from REI, I am sure it's available in lots of places, for $29.95.  Now orginally I was thinking I would use the press part and just leave the cup at home.  But this is a big press, it holds 20oz, the cup about half that.  More then I needed and with all the parts just about the same as my old mug. 

So I decided to stick with the instant junk and use the mug.  It's double walled and insulated. 

Here is the Link at REI GSI Outdoors Personal Java Press

If I was to go camping with someone and share the coffee then both would work out great. 

Wolfman

5:19 p.m. on May 7, 2012 (EDT)
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Nice coffee press!

7:07 p.m. on May 7, 2012 (EDT)
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Hey wolfman, in regards to your alcohol stove, they are only worth the weight for short trips due to the fuel weight, on your week trip I would advise carrying a canister stove. Also check out the designs of chimney style stoves. You will need a good wind screen too which you can make out of aluminum foil or make something like the caldera cone. 

7:38 p.m. on May 7, 2012 (EDT)
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Maxx; I'm going to agree and disagree with you. My findings are 8-10 days using an alcohol vs canister is a wash depending on how much cooking time you are using the stoves. But after the 10th day the canister wins hands down. This is based on my trips, I don't know how others use their stoves.

7:42 p.m. on May 7, 2012 (EDT)
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My experience has been just over 5 days and the canister will win out in terms of efficiency.  This would be using a Monatuk Gnat at 1.6oz.  This is for a morning and evening boil.

7:55 p.m. on May 7, 2012 (EDT)
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The Monatuk Gnat is much lighter than my set up. It really depends on the stoves.

8:24 p.m. on May 7, 2012 (EDT)
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Family Guy said:

My experience has been just over 5 days and the canister will win out in terms of efficiency.  This would be using a Monatuk Gnat at 1.6oz.  This is for a morning and evening boil.

 Most of my trips are 4-5 days and I totally agree with FG on this one, I find that good canister stoves are much more "user-friendly" for such situations than anything else I have used. In fact, my Optimus Nova and 34 year old MSR GK stoves never get used now as I have a Brunton-Optimus Crux and a Snowpeak Litemax Ti and will soon buy a Soto for cold weather.

I am a guy who likes things plain and simple and the quickest boil for my mandatory "cuppa" is my preference. So, for trips on the WCT, I would go with a Litemax or two and call it good.

9:24 p.m. on May 7, 2012 (EDT)
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It's all about fuel control and stove setup.  With caldera cone, an efficient stove, bringing water to a boil and using a cozy to finish cooking the food while blowing away the flame and using something to get the left over alcohol back into the bottle, sure you can match the efficiency of a butane for 8-10 days or so depending on how much you use it, but most of us don't really do that. Wolfman is just starting his design for alcohol stove, he didn't even mention his windscreen setup, which is crucial for alcohol stoves, therefore for his circumstances, I advise a canister stove. Canister is also easier to use, gives an actual flame control for simmering etc... I wont take my alcohol setup, which is pretty efficient, for any trip over a week, unless I'm able to resupply. Anyways, I think it's already too late for that but, for your trip I would suggest a lightweight canister stove like the Litemax Titanium or the Monatauk Gnat etc...

12:02 a.m. on May 8, 2012 (EDT)
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Thx WM.  I will check thi out next time I am at the outdoor store.  Currently thinking I will stick with my GSI s/s mug as it can go on the stove or over the fire without melting in which case I don't need to take another pot. My mug is my pot.

12:44 a.m. on May 8, 2012 (EDT)
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:)  Yea I don't think it will do to good on the stove, although I hear you can boil water in a plastic bottle.  Never tried it though. 

Well guys, one of the other team member has a canister stove and the other is bringing a wisperlight with extra gas.  I am taking about 500 ml (half a liter?) of Green Alcohol and a cat stove with a lid I made out of a top of a Sapporo can.  I also have a pot stand, my pot is to wide and I don't like the stability, on sand it could be very dangerous.  I wrapped the pot stand with several layers of foil to hopefully block most of the wind. 

I actually plan on using this set up in my tent in the morning for coffee and oatmeal.  I am not sure about nights yet, probably something close to the same.  If I am out in the weather, which looks nice, I can always build a shield from some logs and the like.  I am kinda hoping to find a small piece of plywood for the stove.

I though about taking my old butane gas stove, it's nothing like modern stoves.  But I really want to try this out and if dose not workout that great, oh well live and learn.  

Oh yea, I don't have a canister stove system, I really like my Nova and white gas, but maybe later this summer....  Got to watch those sales. :)

You all have fun and see you in a week or so!

Wolfman

PS: 

Total base pack weight with stove and fuel, 26lbs!!  Yea man I am stoked!

Total pack weight at start, 39 lbs with food and 2 liters of water!  Under 40!!  This is going to be a cake walk!  :D

1:20 a.m. on May 8, 2012 (EDT)
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It sounds like all of you are good to go and I hope that you will have a fantastic time and enjoy "Beautiful British Columbia". It should be fine weather, the bugs should not be too frisky yet and the temps. should be perfect for hiking.

Have fun, God Bless and let us know how it went when you come back!

7:48 a.m. on May 8, 2012 (EDT)
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Looks like great weather! Happy trails and have a good time.

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