Vestibule Footprint

10:34 a.m. on August 27, 2013 (EDT)
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Is there any reason not to extend a footprint beyond the tent and into the vestibule? I'm planning on making a footprint for a side entry 1P tent and thinking adding an extra flap that would give the outside storage area a floor.

Looking at what the manufacturers do I notice this feature never seems to appear.  Do they know something I don't?  Well I'm sure they do heh, but is there a reason it would be a bad idea?

1:45 p.m. on August 28, 2013 (EDT)
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Maybe it's because a lot of fly doors are designed to roll up out of the way and they're making sure no water could possibly be funnelled under the tent by the exposed footprint? That's solved by tucking it under, though, so maybe it's just too fiddly and/or uneconomical to do. Some winter tunnel tents incorporate a vestibule footprint, I've noticed.

I use one of my big trash bags as a doormat inside the vestibule. When it gets mucky, I can carry it turned inside out until I get a chance to rinse it off.

3:53 p.m. on August 28, 2013 (EDT)
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Extra weight. I like not having a floor, especially in a vestibule where you shake off your raingear and leave muddy boots.

4:30 p.m. on August 28, 2013 (EDT)
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All of the above reasons! I'd worry about it channeling water under the tent in particular.

Last weekend I cooked breakfast for five people in the vestibule of my tent -


SAM_2367.jpg

We had a heck of a storm all night long and into the morning, high winds and heavy rain. Our Tarptent Rainshadow 2 held up surprisingly well to such an onslaught despite being pitched in a very exposed location.

Come morning I figured someone had to get up and cook!

Of course, had I any intelligence I'd have filled my water bottles the night before so I wouldn't have to that morning, and made everyone else come to my tent to get their hot food instead of delivering it to them!

I think that cooking under cover, preferably but not necessarily while still sitting snug and dry inside the tent, and to provide a sheltered entry way are the primary reasons to have a vestibule on a tent in the first place. 

But I don't see how having a floor will improve matters much.

I'd run the risk of burning it with my stove, it would always be muddy and dirty and hard to clean, and if I spilled a big pot of hot water while cooking it would funnel it right under the tent! 

When I enter a tent I sit in the doorway and remove my shoes, so dragging dirt in is never an issue for me.  

 

 

4:57 p.m. on August 28, 2013 (EDT)
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This whole weight thing is getting kinda ridiculous to me anymore.

$2000 tents? Dropping what works from your kit such as a stove to save a few grams?

Uhhhh... yeah.

Of course if you extend the footprint into your vestibule you are eventually asking for trouble.

Much of this is primarily based on pitch location and height of your outer tent.

The latter being the best gauge of how close to decide where to stop before ya pass the point of turning your tent floor into a water bed.

My Hilleberg Soulo has a footprint that extends into the vestibule.

I find that it is a nice option when one is hunkering down for the night and I really don't feel like dumping my pack on the wet ground(mud or snow.)

For more on that take a look at my review of the Soulo(I'd link it but can't on the dumbphone.)

I am about to order a footprint for my Tarra as well which also extends into the vestibule areas of the tent.

I am just going to say it...

I am so sick of this push that everything has to be UL or it is almost deemed unacceptable anymore.

My thought is try exercising a bit. You will be fine.

I just did a 115 mile solo and my starting pack weight with water was over 90lbs.

Keep in mind I tore my acl and blew my miniscus not all that long ago.

This whole "if it ain't light it ain't right" logic is getting way out of control imo.

You will never catch me in a tent made of triple siliconized toilet tissue or find me selling an item of my gear for the sake is saving a few grams.

As I have said on other occasions I am not a fan of the Kool-Aid.

End of my rant.

5:16 p.m. on August 28, 2013 (EDT)
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One thing I always find interesting when discussing anything camping/backpacking related is how everyone has their own perspective.  It is one of the major reasons I like this board as I can learn from what others see rather than being limited to my own vision.  In this case it seems like the issues I'm hearing mentioned are primarily personal preferences.

I can see why manufacturers would worry about weight because they are in competition and numbers are a good way to compete, but by my calculations adding 6 sq ft of polycro is going to add about .3 oz. Even if you added tape and a washer at the apex to stake it out with the fly you'd be hard pressed to add an oz total.  I don't think weight will be a factor in my decision, but it would be for some folks.

Water collection and debris collection issues can be mitigated by keeping the flap folded up when not in use.  Once inside the tent I could extend the floor and then place shoes, socks, etc rather than using it as a doormat. I tend to be very methodical when moving my self and my equipment around in camp so I don't see a messy front door being a problem for me, but I can see where it might for some folks.

Cooking in my tent is something I can't imagine ever doing.  I wouldn't want to burn my shelter and I certainly don't want it to be delicious smelling heh. I prefer to cook away from my tent and if it is raining will string up a small tarp I carry for that purpose.  A fast diamond pitch provides good rain and wind protection for cooking and eating and keeps the sleeping area smelling like wet socks and old camper rather than shrimp marinara.

Thanks for your thoughts though folks. I am in no way discounting your way of thinking as it applies to your own choices.  Just not hearing any compelling reasons not to give it a try.  If I find that it sucks because of any of the things you've mentioned I'll be sure to remember that you told me so 8p

Edit:

Rick-Pittsburgh said:

Of course if you extend the footprint into your vestibule you are eventually asking for trouble.

Much of this is primarily based on pitch location and height of your outer tent.

The latter being the best gauge of how close to decide where to stop before ya pass the point of turning your tent floor into a water bed.

If I'm parsing this correctly you are saying I should make sure to leave some space between the end of the floor and the fly and the higher the fly sits the more space that needs to be left?

The rest of your rant about weight I totally get 8p I just want to make sure I'm getting what you're saying here.

6:58 p.m. on August 28, 2013 (EDT)
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I sit inside my tent and leave my muddy boots and pack  in the vestibule, so I don't see the advantage of have a floor to clean off. 

As for cooking inside, in the vestibule, or even within flamethrower distance of my tent...

7:19 p.m. on August 28, 2013 (EDT)
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Guess maybe it depends on how big your vestibule is, what it's on, and what you use it for? I like to use half the space for entry/exit and half for storage/drying. The garbage bag lets me cover the 'closet' half's floor if I want. Useful when pitching on wet spruce needles and moose poo!

Got in the habit with the big vestibule on MEC's Tarn 2, got out of it with the mini-vesti of the Spitfire Solo (boots only anyway) and now have the pleasure (thanks again Rick!) of a Copper Spur 1, pre-2013, with a vestibule big enough to let me sit upright and crosslegged between the closed fly and the closed door.

I can take off my raingear in there!

7:41 p.m. on August 28, 2013 (EDT)
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@Islandress- I am glad you like that tent. I just felt that it was being neglected quite a bit being I was using my Soulo all the time.

Now I will be splitting my trips between that and the Tarra.

I am truly glad that lil tent got a good home.

I still find myself scratching my head in regards to why they dropped the small access zipper opposite the entrance.

That lil space came in handy.

Now it is basically dead space.

All in the name of saving weight...

Yeah, saving weight.

Yawn.

7:49 p.m. on August 28, 2013 (EDT)
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LoneStranger- basically yes. You have to account for driving rain and splashback.

I would think that having your cutoff point 4" from the fly/outer would be a safe bet.

It is hard for me to say exactly. I have no idea on what tent ya use, outer height, etc.

The outer on my Soulo and Tarra both meet the ground so the things I mentioned earlier(driving rains & splashing) are not an issue for me with these tents(4 season.)

8:02 p.m. on August 28, 2013 (EDT)
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Islandess said:

Guess maybe it depends on how big your vestibule is, what it's on, and what you use it for? I like to use half the space for entry/exit and half for storage/drying. The garbage bag lets me cover the 'closet' half's floor if I want. Useful when pitching on wet spruce needles and moose poo!

Got in the habit with the big vestibule on MEC's Tarn 2, got out of it with the mini-vesti of the Spitfire Solo (boots only anyway) and now have the pleasure (thanks again Rick!) of a Copper Spur 1, pre-2013, with a vestibule big enough to let me sit upright and crosslegged between the closed fly and the closed door.

I can take off my raingear in there!

 Wow! That sounds great to have that much room out of the weather but not in the tent.  I was already pondering the half floor idea and might go that direction. Not only leaves one side for muddy items but half the door could be rolled open for ventilation w/o leaving the floor exposed to collect a surprise shower.


@Rick

OK I was getting what you were saying and it makes sense. Tent arrives tomorrow so I don't know exactly how it pitches yet but I was assuming at least a few inches of gap. 

8:13 p.m. on August 28, 2013 (EDT)
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That sounds great to have that much room out of the weather but not in the tent. 

Randy Newman disagreed, but short people got some reason to live.

:)

8:45 a.m. on August 30, 2013 (EDT)
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I hang my hammock & pitch my tarp. Anything I don't pull into hammock or hang from the ridgeline is tucked into the garbage bag I line the inside of my pack with. Boots sit on top of this.

If it's dry, I keep the garbage bag off to the side. If rain starts, I slide it directly underneath me. I've done this many times in hard, driving rain, and everything stays dry.


Hammock with built in mosquito netting + tarp = 3lbs. 1oz. Total Cost $120.

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