Fixing overpacking.. getting a smaller pack?

aloha gang,

As I embarassingly posted in another thread, I tend to overpack - sometimes my own selfish desires of having a real pillow, extra sleeping bag, etc always ends up in my pack. Well a friend finally told me its because I have the largest pack - a Bora 80, my backup "extra" pack is a Jansport Alaska II (115)- and I always have "extra" room with these monsters.

So, I just found out a friend has a tiny lil Kelty Yukon Reg (3200) he's willing to sell me for $40 and its in good condition.

Most of my hikes tend to be 2 - 3 nighters (about all you can do here in Hawaii), so I'm wondering if I should bite? I'm not ready to part my Bora 80 -- but I'd love to only take what I need for once, instead of always lugging around the water jugs (gotta pack it with you 80% of the time) or other heavier, large items.

So, has this worked for others (getting a smaller pack), and what are everyone's thoughts on the Yukon? I'd rather have an external frame here due to the humidity... soo any comments appreciated!

Probably not, unless you either already have compact, lightweight gear,(sleeping bag, shelter, kitchen etc. or are ready to invest in some)
While I would be able to put all I need in a pack that small, the addition of 3 days worth of food would most likely put me over that bag's capacity.(without stuff hanging off the sides/front of the pack)
Sounds to me like you are going to have to 're-think' your gear list.
Without knowing what your gear list contains, it would be hard to make a knowledgeable and informed recommendation.

I use a Kelty Illusion 3500 and it's a good pack that works well for me.
I would take your 'must have' gear down to a dealer and try it in different sized packs, until you find one that will fit your gear(don't forget to leave room for food) and that rides/fits you comfortably.

Dusty

As Dusty implies, you should get all your gear out and make a list. If you have a suitable scale (not a bathroom scale), weigh all the items. Then go down the list to see what you actually use during your 2 or 3 day treks and those you have never used. There are some "never used" items that you do have to keep (1st aid kit, for example, which you hope you never have to use, but you better have just in case). You can also mark down the items that are "nice to have" and you do use, but you can get along without for a couple days.

What you will find is that there are a number of items you keep taking, but never use, that add up to a fair amount of bulk and weight. At one point, I gathered all my "small items" that hardly weighed anything individually, and discovered that they added up to somewhere between 8 and 10 pounds. Virtually all were never used. Every so often, I look at the electronic widgets and question whether I really need them and their associated cables and batteries, pile them off to the side, weigh them, and then leave them home the next few trips (then end up gradually adding them back).

Thing about big packs is, as you have figured out, if you have the room, you will find stuff to shove - plenty of room, so put that other "nice to have" item in. If you stick with a smaller pack, you will be forced to be more judicious. And you will discover that you don't really miss those things you are forced to leave out for the 3 days. Ask yourself what you are doing during the 3 day trip (or 2 day). Are you mostly hiking, setting up camp, preparing meals, sleeping, breaking camp, and hiking out? Then you really only need the sleeping bag, pad, tent (or tarp), stove, a pot, spoon, clothes you are wearing, rain gear (hey, you are in Hawaii, so rain gear is a "must have"!), water bottle, food, and not a lot else. Ok, so you take bird pictures and need the big digicam with the super-long and heavy telephoto plus tripod, and the big binoculars. That becomes a vital part of the trip. Or you are an artist and need your sketch pad and watercolors plus easel. Or you are a rock climber and need the rope and hardware.

So think about what you need for what you are doing and eliminate the extraneous gear, then put the stuff that does get used into a smaller pack.

I've read the responses so far, and they make sense, but one caveat - a big pack that's not filled will carry better than a small pack that's stuffed to the gills. An over stuffed pack tends to be really uncomfortable (at least to my old knees and back).

Perhaps following what Bill S. said and leaving stuff behind that you don't use will leave you happier than trying to shove that last "essential" into a smaller pack.

The large / not filled pack can be a real blessing when you discover that you need to pack a gallon or two of water (in zip-lock style bags) a few miles to a beautiful but dry campsite. It can also come in mighty handy if you run into another hiker or backpacker who's injured themselves - it allows you to take on some of their gear which may allow them to get to the trail head under their own power.

Yes, you can strap "extra" stuff to the outside of a pack, but typically a smaller pack will have a suspension system designed for a lighter load and tied on stuff tends to get hung up if you're trundling through bushes ....

I say this as a ludite who still carries the same external frame pack that he bought in the late 1970's - although I have replaced the hip and shoulder straps (and the mesh back panel) a few times.

Then again, I still carry a wool sweater and wear leather boots ...

thanks for the responses. What normally happens is my friends out here aren't quite the outdoorsmen (or women) my friends back on the mainland are, and once their packs get to 30#s they start whining "omg, this is heavy.." while I don't even complain when i'm at 50.

I have looked at all of the gear I need and was able to fit it -- almost cram it - into my Kelty Redwing... just have to figure out where to put the tent but everything else is there.

But with the redwing, I'm still using an internal here. I went to Sports Authority (ok, laugh, but we don't have REI/EMS/Galyans out here) and all they had was the Jansport Scout.. not sure I'm ready to start scaring all the birds as we hike by with the sounds of it squeeking!

Nate, I used to live in Hawaii and although I did very little camping there, I can't see any reason for a big pack. Maybe up in the mountains in winter, when it does get a bit chilly (like up by Schofield or Wahiawa or down on the Big Island at Volcano).

I had a Bora 80 and got rid of it because it was so big and heavy. For winter, I now have a smaller Kelty and a sled.

There are plenty of ways to cut down what you are taking. Check out some of the UL sites to see the lightweight gear lists. It is common for UL hikers to carry much less than 20 lbs. including shelter, bag, etc.

One way is to tell your friends to carry their own gear. I used to scuba dive there all the time and that was the rule-even my girlfriend carried all her own gear and she was barely 5' tall.

Ya know, Nate, that Bora 80 is 80 liters (abt 5000 cu in, with the large being 84 liters, so close to 5500 cu in) in capacity. My expedition pack which I use in Alaska and Antarctica, and just generally on expeditions of 3 weeks and more is 5800 cu in. That carries all my personal gear (clothing, sleeping bag, pad for sub-zero conditions with high winds) plus my share of the group gear - stove, fuel, cook gear, part of the tent. When we are on snow, we put some of the stuff on sleds, or if not in sled-hauling conditions, we make double carries (carry half the gear and cache it, then bring the rest up the next day). For the last couple weeks of the expedition we are carrying it all in the pack in single carries. In other words, full-on arctic gear, including the climbing gear, plus the food and fuel. In those conditions, we are far from "ultralight". As Tom says, given that, I find it hard to visualize what you are carrying for a 3-day weekend in Hawaii that fills your Bora 80, much less your Alaska II. What are you taking - a whole pig for a typical Hawaiian luau? scuba gear with a couple days worth of tanks? The wood and charcoal supply for cooking the luau? Kidding, of course, since I know how easy it is to just keep filling the space in a big pack. And there are all those "must take" things.

Maybe you should post your gear list.

Well what happens is my friends will shove off all the bulky & heavy gear to me -- #1. cause i have the room #2. i never complain about weight.

I've never pulled out my Alaska pack unless I'm flying somewhere, otherwise its just sitting in my closet collecting mothballs.

Last time we went hiking, I ended up with a 5 gal jug of water, the stove, fuel, food, and my luxury items because I had room: 2 regular sized pillows (in compression stuff sacks), extra sleeping bag, battery powered fan, bigger flashlight, and extra batteries.

so while everyone wipes off your screen from your drink you spit out, my last "real" hike in Arizona was a 4 day and my total weight was only 34 pounds :-) so I know how to pack, I think.

"Last time we went hiking, I ended up with a 5 gal jug of water, the stove, fuel, food, and my luxury items because I had room: 2 regular sized pillows (in compression stuff sacks), extra sleeping bag, battery powered fan, bigger flashlight, and extra batteries." - you forgot the solar powered 'fridge and the quarter keg of beer .... ;=)

If that five gallon jug is full, you're carrying more than 40 pounds in water alone. If your total pack weight, including five gallons of water, is between 60 and 70 pounds, in order to have a more reasonable pack weight all you need to do is reduce the amount of water you carry. So, if you're carrying the water jugs simply because your pack is big enough, I strongly recommend a smaller pack!

Having a smaller pack provides the great excuse for your friends - "Sorry, it won't fit in the pack."

There is a basic rule in backpacking - everyone carries their own gear plus a share of the group gear. There are exceptions - one of the few is when my friend Warren is headed off on one of his expeditions, everyone pitches in to carry part of his gear (he lost his legs in a backpacking accident, but has the world's biggest heart, and proves that you can overcome virtually any handicap).

Why are you carrying an extra sleeping bag? I know that when I was a Scoutmaster, I carried extra clothes, sleeping bag, tent, and food on backpacks for the kids who left these behind (there's one on every trip). But those were overnights that went no more than a couple miles, and I always split the extra backup stuff with the older scouts and other adult leaders. When I am with other adults, everyone carries his/her own share.

Might I gently suggest that you need a new set of hiking companions?

We carry what we want, I know I do as I probably have more in common with Norman Clyde than with the current crop of ultralight faddists. Of course, on a 3 day trip I can get my pack down small and light, but on long trips without resupply I like to bring a small library(secondhand books at the used book store)which I burn book by book during the trip. Lightens the load. It's alright to carry a 3 pound thermarest, a couple of Knudsen sodas, a half a head of cabbage, several candles, a 3.7 pound down bag, etc. It's my home away from home and sometimes it seems like it's my only home.

My daughter bought me a Kelty 3200 cu in pack a couple years ago for the same purpose. It is perfect for no more than 2 nights. I absolutely keep my larger pack as I typically do at least 1 5-6 night trip per year. But for those shorter trips the smaller Kelty has been great! My advise, bite.

The suggestion that a large pack that is partly empty will carry better than a pack that is full is generally incorrect. Hence most packs have compression straps.

Perhaps this is especially true with internal or frameless packs, but it is probably also the case with external-frame packs.

The premise of your question puts the cart before the horse in a peculiar, but non unheard-of, way. Although it may have slight merit, you'd be better off training the horse.

Clearly, packing a small rucksack to the gills is more trouble than packing one that has room to spare, and I sometimes opt for the big sack as a matter of convenience.

However, fussing with a smaller sack does offer advantages in certain circumstances. The dumbest reason, which I frequently apply, is that to some eyes, you will look more cool. You will attract less attention if camping on certain beaches or other quasi-legal places....Also, the small sack is more effective half-empty, for side trips, than a large sack that is nearly empty. In all cases, the smaller sack will carry better on rough ground, or in brush, or while skiing. So far as I know, these are mainly circumstances which would call for a non-external frame, raising a question addressed elsewhere.

well I went ahead and got the Kelty Yukon pack... its one of the early 2000 models with a sternum strap and the shoulder harness is OK... I like how the frame is adjustable (something I'm not used to).

Already used it on a 3 night hike and it was perfect; and my friend got stuck carrying his own gear for once. It was nice having barely 30 pounds on my back for once!