Curious, And wanting to know?

5:59 p.m. on December 1, 2007 (EST)
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About Straping, or Securing items on the outside of your Packs.
I always learned, and have been told that every thing must go inside the pack....
This reason is protection from being damage, or puntured, and accidentally losing some Gear..
Ok!That makes sense... But, here again that pertains to the type of Hiking, or Backpacking you’re doing.
Rough terrain, Brushwacking, again its really not wise to have anything strap on the outside of your pack.. So! That makes some sense too.
The Same said about Mountain Climbing, or Winter Backpacking.

Now, I read threads that explain its not really nesscessary, or True..to pack every thing in the pack... Like for example, those External Frame pack is one.

A few more examples: These items can, or could be Strap/Secure outside the pack. for simple convenients

> Tents - for during rain/storms.
> Fishing Rod Case - easy to get at for fishing.
> Trekking Poles
> Pad / Mattress
> Bear Canister

Winter conditions:
> SnowShoes
> Skis, and Poles
> Snowshovels

Now, is this why so many of us had Trouble secting the right Volume size For a Pack ? For the gear, and type of backpacking trips. And you still seem to have diffcultly secting just that number One Pack for all conditions, and gear..

I have four Packs right now, each serves different type of Backpacking from Day Hikes to 14-days excursion. And some of gear is quite durable, and light too. My average pack wt: 26# max out 38.5# never gone over 40#..

Don't mean it to be mind bogging. Just Curious?
I’m interested in, and appreciate your comments

Thank You;
From Old Hermit

2:22 p.m. on December 2, 2007 (EST)
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Herm,
You have touched on most of the relevant points. If you are on good trails, it doesn't really matter whether you put the gear inside or outside the pack, as long as it is securely fastened so it doesn't swing around or fall off. If you are bushwhacking, and potentially catching branches, rocks, and other "grabby" things, then the pack better be covered with a sturdy material (which could mean putting everything inside an internal frame pack made of 1000 denier cordura). When bushwhacking, you also want a pack that is as smooth in its outer surface as possible, with no straps, protruding pockets, mesh pockets for water bottles, or anything else that has the slightest possibility of hooking on anything (I have had a branch hook, then release to come close to smacking the person behind).

But sometimes gear has to be readily accessible. Hence, ice tool loops, crampon patches, climbing rope tie-on points, and ski loops keep these things ready to hand. Daisy chains and outside mesh pockets for water bottles are made to carry stuff on the outside.

As with all things in the outdoors, it all depends on context. Sometimes a pack basket or a hard-case pack is the way to go. And sometimes it is adequate to use a fanny/lumbar pack or a messenger bag sling over the shoulder.

3:07 a.m. on December 3, 2007 (EST)
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Thank You, Bill S:
For you're responds, I apperciated it..

6:26 p.m. on December 3, 2007 (EST)
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I'm of the view that all things being equal (with a stress on equal), gear is best packed inside a pack rather than outside.

The first time I encountered this view was in Colin
Fletcher, who offered various reasons that he made explict in some rather long-winded, but enjoyable and convincing passages.

In the earlier editions of his work, Fletcher exclusively used external frame packs, and favored at the time a full-length sack (what he called "a bloody great sack," great meaning large), rather than a three-quarter-length. He later switched decisively to internal frame packs, but retained his view of lashing & strapping.

I think there are exceptions, some described above, & many are obvious; skis, bits of moose carcass, certain woodstoves & 50-caliber machine guns, for example.

Carrying a pad outside is indeed common, though making it potentially vulnerable to mud and wetness, which could conceivably then contaminate sleeping bag via shell.

It may be wise to assign a very high priority to protect from puncture certain critical items (thermarest, certain egos, and similar) that depend on inflation.

---

8:07 p.m. on December 3, 2007 (EST)
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I've carried pads and a tent on the outside of a pack, along with a shovel and snowshoes in winter. I try to put the rest inside. I've also carried crampons and an ice axe a couple of times and those went outside as well.

8:26 p.m. on December 3, 2007 (EST)
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Backpacking, as with many human endeavours is as simple, or complex, as you wish to make it. Basing your techniques on some rigid concept of what you "should" do is rather like dis-connecting two of the distributor wires on your car's engine, to save gas and be "green".....it don't really work that way!

If, you need to carry a large or awkward object, which very few recreational backpackers do, then, a GOOD external frame pack is the most efficient method and straps, bungie cords and rope will affix anything so that you won't lose it. Many of my friends who work in remote parts of BC, the Yukon and NWT use these packs for this reason...and because a pack lasts about two seasons under their usage, so the costs of Mystery Ranch, McHale, Kifaru and other high-end packs get a bit much, Bullpacs seem to last best.

But, this kind of backpacking, or, carrying out game meat to your horses, plane or jetboat, is not what most will be doing, so, I think that a GOOD internal is the better option for most uses/people. With proper attention to HOW you affix items such as winter sleeping pads, iceaxes, skis, snowshoes and so forth, there is no real reason to try to put them inside a pack, which is obviously impossible, anyway.

An internal frame pack will sit closer to your center of gravity and is thus better in really dicey situations, such as climbing, some of my friends over the years used "Jensen Packs" as they felt that skiing and climbing with NO frame gave them better stability...I had a Gerry Makalu of this type, but, wasn't thrilled with it AND you HAD to strap your sleeping pad to the "daisy chain" as space inside was limited and the method of packing it was very critical to performance.

If, you pack properly, bushwhacking is not a major issue with some gear carried outside your pack; the real problem is making sure that you put it together so as not to interfere with your balance, especially when walking fallen logs over big streams...sans "corks", a very scary situation.

Relax, carry what YOU want WHERE you want and enjoy your trip, nobody has a perfect method of backpacking and ONLY DOING IT will show you what works best for you.

9:50 p.m. on December 3, 2007 (EST)
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Dang!!! As I suspected, I do, in essence, AGREE, in this possible troll, and I imagine mostly, with Der Mr. K of BC !!

10:06 p.m. on December 3, 2007 (EST)
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In 1972, I essentially destroyed a Camptrails frame in the process of lashing a 90-pound bag of cement on the thing and carrying it about two miles. I'd borrowed frame; bent the thing back into shape, and as I dimly remember, never took responsibility for damage....

Fur-trappping for money in late 1960s, (in suburbs of NYC!!) we used pack baskets...of a quality not really available today. Packbaskets, especially those now available, are definitely NOT worth considering for backpackers or even canoists, in my opinon....

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