waterproof breathable shell help?

i am looking for a waterproof breathable shell that isn't too warm. i want to be able to use it in warm weather when it's raining, but still be able to put on layers beneath it when it gets cold. any suggestions?

i don't know if it helps, but i'm about 5'7" and weigh about 160, and have about a 36 inch chest, in case you need to know sizing to give better advice. i've never owned much waterproof gear, so i'm trying to start amassing some, so any help would be appreciated

Go to www.wildthings.com and check out their eVent shells, they have a wide range of sizes and will adjust sleeve length, etc. They have an excellent rep. for quality and eVent is the best stuff I have seen since I bought my first WPB shell in 1977.

i went to wildthings, and couldn't find any shells. it seemed like a lot of articles and event listings. so, where on the site are the shells?

www.wildthingsgear.com is the correct site. The Alpinist Jacket or Superlight Alpinist Jacket are the two you would want.

Unfortunately, just looking for "Wild Things" via Google or other searches brings up everything from Sendak's fun book for kids (Where the Wild Things are) and the movie and Broadway musical made from the book to a "wild things" adventure site to a photo book on how to photograph wild critters to a company renting wild animals for movie studios to some, shall we say, "adult-oriented" web sites, along with the Wild Things gear company.

Durability, weight, price and intended use are what most people may want to consider in selecting such a product.

Lots of people use these things as streetwear, or whatever, on a daily basis, and for hard use, a heavier-weight, higher-priced product may be in order.

For strictly for trail use, a lot of people use ultralight, fully breathable windshirts & reserve the waterproofs for when the weather gets really bad. To some extent, using such a system saves wear on the waterproofs and a lighter-weight, and thus less durable design becomes more practical.

Personally, I consider pit zips highly desirable. Dunno if they're universally incorporated or not. I like the idea of mesh pockets that can double as venting.

I've got Marmot Precip jacket and pants that are pretty light and economical, but not particularly durable. Campmor currently has a jacket priced at $50, that weighs 11 ounces (allegedly) and has pit zips.

Personally, I only recently got over the flop of first generation of Goretex, which we used to call "smoretex" back in the 70s, and I stuck with a ratty old cagoule until not that long ago. It does seem, to me at least, that in heavy rain and high humidity, the breathablity of my Marmot shell is limited, and wouldn't be surprised if there are superior materials available at a price.

On the other hand, if it's raining hard enough to coat the exterior of the garment with water to some extent, I expect that this could interfer with breathability of any garment.

eVent works well on the BC coast as several of my friends have used it when we are hiking and during alpine winter rescues. Gore-Tex is useless under these conditions but was a real breakthrough 30 years ago when we could buy sleeping bags and tents made from it.

This was when long-term, solo winter trips really became practical as a down-GT bag weighing 4 lbs. plus two Ensolite pads would keep you warm and dry for many nights on end, in your GT tent or bivy. No other type of down bag I tried would do this and my winter trips often included some pretty sketchy nights due to a slightly damp down bag; the synthetics we had were too bulky for serious backpacking.

So, if you can afford it, go with eVent, if not, you are about as well off with a light coated jacket over merino wool or something like Capilene, if you prefer. I also have eVent bivies and they WORK better than any GT bivy I have had; this fabric really IS a step forward.

Where I usually train-hike and up along the BC coast, you have the highest incidence of rainfall anywhere in North America with only one small area of south-western Alaska as wet. I have trekked, worked and lived alone in this wilderness in about all parts of it over many years, if raingear works here, it will work anywhere.

So, try eVent, I bet you will be very pleased....well, except with the price.... :)

thanks! i checked it out, and they seem to be amazing, unfortunately, the price isn't, as you already suggested. however, it may be worth it, but not at this point, since it really doesn't rain that much here in the south. but like i said, it may be worth it if i ever start hiking more in other regions where it does rain more

For areas with lower rainfall and moderate weather, or, in warmer weather here when I am only out for the day, I use an Integral Designs Silponcho, weighs zip, covers me enough to stay warm-dry when wearing my merino wool shirts and is all I need, in utility, price and weight.

I NEVER use expensive gear when/where I don't need to and I have a LOT of it; this means that highend, costly items LAST....kinda important unless you are Bill Gate's little brother!

Marmot PreCip

I know this thread isn't too current but if you haven't ordered a WTG jacket you might want to not do it. I got an alpinist jacket in October. When it gets wet (rain / snow) the cuff edge soaks up water which seeps into the inside. I spoke to customer service, even sent it back to be checked. They returned it, told me it was fine, and that no one else had complained. I tried to exchange it but they say there is no problem other then my opinion (despite the fact I have photos of the water soaked cuffs). Because I wear a shell in cold wet weather where I do not want to have my inside insulation layer getting wet at the cuffs I ended up replacing it with a different product (which does not seep in water). I now have a rather expensive shelf liner in my closet in the form of an alpinist not so waterproof jacket! Not the best service or product. If you aren't that fussy on how waterproof a jacket is, the shape, length, etc. is great. But for that price I just don't think it should be leaking!

I have had no problems with my Wild Things eVent garments in keeping my dry in very wet conditions. I have had their products for many years with no problems (other than my son packing one of my jackets in his bags coming home from climbing in Italy).

PreCip does not breathe very well at all, which means your sweat will condense inside it if you are doing any kind of vigorous exercise (like hiking). I have tried 3 different generations of PreCip and gotten the same results each time. On the other hand, I have eVent jackets from Wild Things (as well as their bibs), Montagne, and Integral Designs. These have worked very well in vigorous exercise in pouring rain and wet snow (backcountry ski racing). That's what I wore last week doing a bit of ice climbing in Utah in relatively warm conditions (warm enough for the ice to be very plastic and running with water). Something important in ice climbing is, of course, to use gloves that have a gauntlet cuff - otherwise water running down the shaft of the tool will run straight into any jacket sleeve (you hold the tool above you, after all).

From what I have read and heard WildThings is a good and reputable company and E-vent is a great fabric. I am not sure what happened with my jacket. It really doesn't look like a flaw in how the product was made. It looks like the jacket is just not waterproofed at the edge. My friend saw it the first time I wore it and laughed at me - his $50 jacket did better then my 'good' one. Who knows. Maybe it is just a fluke defect or maybe I just expected too much.

I took some pics after a couple minutes out on a rainy day. The pics are of the inside of the cuff. I did not have my arms raised - water did not run up inside the arms. If I am out to walk the dogs in the jacket for 20 - 30 minute the seepage you see in the photos spreads to about an inch deep inside the cuffs. To me this is not acceptable. To Wildthings gear there is nothing wrong. So I am at a loss of what to do other then eat the loss (my superlight alpinist pants do the same thing but at least if I wear them over waterproof hiking boots it is not such a large deal).

I am thinking of trying Nikwax on it ... if anyone has any other ideas let me know

here is a link to the picassa album if you want to see what I mean. Maybe I really am just overly picky!

http://picasaweb.google.com/JTsalonvisit/Jacket

Hi, sorry to hijack this thread but I figured this question was relevent.
How important is a "breathable" shell? I get quite warm when doing any sort of outdoor activities and tend to sweat, so I was attracted to the breathable claims. However when layering how effective is this breathable shell?

I plan to wear 100% Poly baselayer that is moisture wicking and have a few insulating layers, including at least 1 heavy wool sweater. I can't imagine wool is very breathable so what is the shell allowing to breath?? If my insulating layer are not that breathable whats the point of a breathable shell?
This is probably a really stupid question but i'm pretty preplexed after reading some winter survival books.

Thanks in advance for the help/tips!
Brian

The breathable shell is important if you are being active to get the perspiration out. Otherwise you will get the inner layers wet, which will chill you quite rapidly, potentially resulting in hypothermia.

But there is more to the story. If the conditions are dry, the shell does not need to be waterproof. The shell in that case is more for wind protection, since most fleece and soft shells are not very windproof. A simple nylon shell is plenty breathable. You will find dry conditions in winter if the temperature is sub-zero (unless you fall through the ice into a stream or are ice-fishing).

If the conditions are wet (temperatures from a few degrees below to a few degrees above freezing, with wet snow falling or mixed rain and snow), then you need a waterproof shell. A non-breathable waterproof shell (such as a coated rainshell) will very quickly have your inner layers soaked, unless it is constructed with a good ventilation system (like some industrial rainsuits that are too heavy for backpacking). The idea here is that as the sweat evaporates, it will pass through the waterproof/breathable shell and keep your inner layers fairly dry (wicking long johns and fleece, for example).

But there is a problem - all the wp/b materials (Goretex, eVent, a few others) depend on a temperature and humidity difference between the inner and outer atmosphere. Higher temperature and higher humidity inside your shell will drive the moisture through to the colder, drier air outside. So Goretex and (even better) eVent work very well in really cold, dry conditions (in my experience, Tetons and Wasatch backcountry most of the winter, Alaska during the winters, and Antarctica more than 100 kilometers inland). But they don't work all that well in humid conditions around freezing, and very poorly in tropical conditions (like the rainforest I had to hike through for the first day on my Kilimanjaro hike in December - although the pitzips on my Marmot Alpinist jacket helped a lot with the ventilation).

So the bottom line is that waterproof/breathables are orders of magnitude improvement over what we had back in the 1960s, but still are not a miracle answer.

Wool does breathe well, but most wool does not wick very well. Merino wool is the exception (and the wools from a couple of non-sheep animals). A lot of wool garments tend to hold water, so you may get quite damp under a waterproof/breathable shell (my Patagonia and Smartwool merino tops work almost as well as my Capilene of the same weight). Unlike cotton, wool does retain a certain amount of its insulating capacity when wet.

I will say that despite my displeasure with the e-vent jacket for waterproofness it breathed noticeably better then my old Gore did. I was quite impressed with its breathability. I now have a gore pro shell. Since I have worn it in colder weather (with primaloft under it) can't comment on the breathability vs. the e-vent as of yet.

Howdo,

I realise this may be a bit late, but here in the UK, Event is beginning to make inroads into Gore's dominance of the membrane market. Ive recently bought a CRUX Flak Smock. Theyre a small UK based company making bomber tents and 2 jackets. if its available stateside then check them out. with its simplistic design, they ll give arcteryx a run for their money.
RAB, who are Sheffield based are also worth a look. theyre better known for their down equipment, but theyre using Event in their jackets.