Winter Gear Questions

I’m looking to get started backpacking, and I’ve spent many hours looking at gear and reading reviews, but it seems like most manufacturers don’t include information on cold-weather durability. As I live in Alaska, so that’s quite a consideration for me even if I only want to camp in the fall or spring, though I would also like to have gear that's capable of ice climbing and snowshoeing, too. I don’t have so much cash that I can afford to buy both a summer and a winter kit, and it seems to me that winter-capable items will function well enough in a summer environment, though they might be heavy. And anyway, winter’s long enough here that I don’t want to waste eight months for fear of snow.

So, does anyone know how to identify gear that functions well even below zero? Do I really need to buy a $600 sleeping bag if I want to be prepared for -30? That in particular seems to be complicated when you factor in pads and liners and overbags and clothes and whatnot.

The more I look into gear, the more I’m tempted by REI’s stuff because it’s so much cheaper. There must be a downside, but I don't know what it is; usually the only reviews and specs are on REI’s website, and a lot of those seem kinda… fake. REI’s store brand especially seems to get a lot of glowing reviews on their site, but most of the time other sites (like this one) don’t even have one review on the item. Kinda suspicious if you ask me.

Anyway, I was looking in particular at REI’s Arete for a tent, which is a lot lighter than many other four-season tents, in addition to being cheaper; and their Pinnacle for a pack, maybe a North Face Terra 40. I don't have the faintest idea about sleeping bags or pads, though REI is cheaper there as well. I’m least confident about the packs, since I don’t really know what a good volume is for an all-around pack either. (Any enlightenment would be appreciated!) Before I buy them, though, I thought I'd post here and see what more experienced folks have to say.

Where in Alaska are you? If you are in Anchortown, go to Alaska Mountaineering and Hiking (basically diagonally across from the REI on Northern Lights, a half block north on Spenard, I think). AMH is one of the best shops anywhere and will provide lots of excellent guidance and advice. I have dealt with them for a number of years, whenever I am in Alaska. Talk to either the owner or to John, though all their personnel are excellent. There is also a good shop in Fairbanks, the name of which I have forgotten, and one in Talkeetna that is ok (the 2 good shops there closed a few years back).

For years my kit consisted of one bag, one tent, one pad, one backpack, etc. and that was it. It took me from winters at -28 below to summer thunderstorms and high hot summer meadows. I even wore a pair of Sorel packboots for 2 straight years including the summer cuz I didn't want to carry two pairs of boots.

Here's what I learned: Buy the best stuff you can afford, especially for winter camping. Sell the house, sell the kids, sell blood, but get the best bag you can find like a Feathered Friends or a Western Mountaineering and look for the strongest 4 season tent you can find like the Hilleberg Nallo/Allak/Soulo/Akto/Staika or the Integral Designs single walled tents(MK3?). In the long run you will save a bunch of money because this gear will last and will withstand some of the worst conditions Miss Nature has to offer. Don't worry about summer, just throw that arctic furnace bag over your feet like a quilt and by morning you might have it wrapped over you blanket-style. And a beefier 4 season tent works just as well in the summer, too. And with the best gear, your load will be lighter, also.

Thanks to both of you! Yeah, I'm in Ankwidge, so I'll definitely give AMH a look; that place has always seemed like the real thing to me, if that makes any sense. Which it probably doesn't. I also seem to remember reading something about clubs on their website, that is, before it broke a few days ago.

Tipi, I have Sorels too! Old school style... I adore those boots. Thanks for the advice! I kinda figured that it would be smarter and safer to go with the good stuff, but I guess I needed to hear somebody say it out loud. Er, read it... you know what I mean.

I'm thinking about going with the Hilleberg Akto, if I can get it. There's a dealer around here, so maybe they're not sold out like the online stores are. I guess I'm gonna have to suck it up and get a good bag, too, but then that's what the PFD is for. Ha ha! (It also seems like the FF Ptarmigan would be a good bet in the sleeping bag direction.)

As for packs, I'm probably going to test drive a bunch of them at REI. Too bad they don't have the Jansport packs, though, since those seem to be of both decent quality and price. I'm thinking about upping the volume to 60 L for more versatility. Tipi, what's the volume on your One Pack to Rule Them All?

If anyone else has any thoughts, comments, suggestions, or random snippets of advice, I'm all ears. Not literally, of course.

I have done a bit of winter camping in Yosemite, not in AK type weather though; no colder than about +10F or so. Winter gear is bulky-I have a big two person tent, big parka, insulated pants, fleece jacket, extra socks, rain jacket and pants that I use as a shell, assorted hats and gloves, down booties, extra stove, overbag for my 3 season sleeping bag, bear canister, etc.

With all of my winter gear, I have so much stuff that I use a sled I tow behind me, which I have done on snowshoes and skis along with my pack, which I don't load up very much. I probably take too much stuff, but since I have been alone on my past couple of trips, I don't have anyone to share carrying anything and want to be prepared if the weather turns bad unexpectedly. I never go that far from the trailhead, but still, I'd rather have what I need than wind up trudging back in bad weather because I left something at home.

There is a good little book-Allen & Mike's Really Cool Backcountry Ski Book, which covers snow camping as well as using backcountry skis. Even if you never ski, the book is well worth it. It is done with cartoon style illustrations and has lots of practical advice.

Before buying a pack, get all of your stuff you intend to take with you, load it up into a box and cart it down to the store with you. This may seem a bit of a hassle, but you need to buy a pack big enough to hold your gear rather than find out when you get home that you really needed a bigger pack. REI will take back almost anything you buy there, but you may as well get the right size to begin with. For winter, 60L sounds too small to me. For example, my big winter parka, which if I was in AK I'd be wearing,stuffs down to about the size of my sleeping bag, so right there, that is a lot of space used up already.

My One Pack To Rule Them All has pretty much always been either a large volume external or a large volume internal like the Dana Designs Terraplane or the Mystery Ranch G6000(6400 cubic inches). Most people would balk at the empty weight of the MR pack(around 8 pounds), but this baby hauls whatever I want to hump and does so without sagging. Sagging is the bane of high weight backpacking. And with a lighter load(say, 45 pounds), the MR feels like a feather on my back. A fully supported feather, by the way.

Many people go for something smaller, maybe around 4000-4500 cubic inches, and end up strapping too much gear on the outside of the pack and hauling too much weight for its harness/hipbelt system. I think a pack is the hardest piece of gear to buy since you'll quickly become very intimate with it, especially when hauling some serious weight. I do not envy your search for a good pack, and often it hinges around having one to try out at a local outiffing store. Mail ordering a sleeping bag is easy, or even a tent. But mail orderng a pack can be a mistake and you only know it after several days on the trail under load.

Here's one of my favorite tidbits: Get your sleeping bag and pad and bedroll camp outside in your back yard/deck and get used to the feel of sleeping on a pad. It takes a while to get used to. And if you have a tent, set it up in your yard and start sleeping out in it. Wouldn't hurt to take it down every morning and then set it up again, over and over. And once you pick out a pack, load it down with at least 50 pounds and walk around for an hour. These three things will help to alleviate surprises on the backpacking trail. "No Surprises" should be the beginning backpacker's mantra.

For backpacking in Alaska, ESPECIALLY during the wintertime, you NEED highend gear and that does NOT include the recreational backpacking stuff sold by the container load by REI and MEC as well as giant megastore camping outlets.

For a winter pack, the Mystery Ranch G-6000 or even the G-7000 is a superb choice, I use the Kodiak version of the 7000, WITH added Longpockets and Fliptops to a volumn of just over 8000 cu. in. This means I can carry the bulkier winter gear INSIDE my pack, where it belongs. This tends to preserve you balance on skis or snowshoes and also protects expensive gear.

Other options are a McHale custom pack, the Gregory Denali Pro and the Arcteryx Bora 95 as well as the larger Bergans internal frame packs. I do not like externals for winter camping (or much else), after decades of toting them.

A REALLY GOOD sleeping bag is mandatory and the best are Integral Designs, Western Mountaineering and, especially, the Valandre Shocking Blue,a 3 lb. wonder sack that will take most people to -10*F, which is a LOT colder, for most, than many think it is!

Your tent should be an Integral MKI-XL, or, a Hilleberg model, I like their Soulo, Jannu and Saivo models best and own/use a Soulo and a Saivo. I also have the ID I refer to and it is my regular snow/winter camping tent, complete with vestibule and, sometimes an awning rigged from an ID Silshelter....superb rig, about perfect for one in the worst weather.

You need proper clothing, footwear and other gear and the guys are RIGHT, go with the best, you WILL be glad that you did!

You're right, Tom, winter gear does tend to take up a ton of space, but... wouldn't I be wearing it? I'm the first to admit my complete and total ignorance and lack of practical knowledge, but I can't really imagine a situation where I would both take your gear off and want to carry it. As I said, though, I have only my imagination to guide me, which is why I'm here. That book should help, too. I'll definitely add it to my reading list.

Woah, Tipi, that pack is huge! I can't even imagine a pack that big. Looking at pictures online is just not the same; you don't get a sense of scale at all. That's one of the problems with Alaska, too; there's just not as much stock here, and fewer outdoors stores in general, so it's harder to find a place that has a particular pack.

That advice about camping practice is great, too. My backyard is sticks and rocks, so it'll be a fairly realistic test. It should be really useful, too, to be used to setting up my tent instead of trying to figure out where that pole goes in the rain. Even if the Hillenberg Akto only really has one main pole... I've got my heart set on that one now. Well, no, I'd love the Soulo, but at $650 for a sleeping bag, I just can't afford it when the Akto will probably do just fine.

Thanks, kutenay. REI claims that their gear is great and all, and I needed someone to contradict them. Do I really need a pack that big, though? I do want to be able to do multi-day stuff in the winter, but... wow, those packs are just monstrous. And depending on where I go, I might be able to get away with a sled.

About sleeping bags... I never really considered anything less than a good-brand -25 bag. I just didn't know what the best brands were until everyone enlightened me. No, there's no way I would have gone with something crappy in that direction; I have nothing but caution toward cold weather. While kids in the rest of the world were learning about poisonous snakes, spiders, and plants, I was hearing about frostbite and hypothermia. I'm not saying I'll want to be hiking around in -25, but if I go out at 0-10, it could easily get colder than -10 at night. No, below zero is not fun. I remember this one pep rally in high school when they locked us outside for two hours in five below... ANYWAY.

Yeah, I have the clothes/footwear/etc. corner more or less covered. Most people in Anchorage wear decent quality stuff around town in the winter, myself included. It gets coooold, particularly with windchill.

Back to the packs: Would Cilogear hold up to the competition? I've been eyeing their packs ever since I watched like 50% of the respondents say "Buy Cilogear or buy twice" in a pack-selection thread on rockclimbing.com. Apparently guides use them on Everest and Denali, and some famous gear destroyers use them too. Unfortunately, since the company is so small, it's very hard to find more than a couple reviews, but all of those have been worshipful. Their biggest pack is 75 L, though, which might be too small, according to what I'm hearing?

Again, thanks to everyone who responded! It's great hearing what really works as opposed to what I imagine might work.

I'm too small to carry a big heavy pack; I've tried it on showshoes and just about killed myself doing it. That's why I have the sled. I have pics posted on another site. If you are interested, I'll post a link.

I don't have any experience in really cold weather, so someone else like Bill or Kutenay will have to answer the question about what you'll be wearing while moving. In my limited experience in Yosemite, I had no need for a big parka or insulated pants until evening when it got colder.

The guy who makes Cilogear posts a fair amount on the other website I help moderate, www.backpacking.net (look for the Community link from the Home Page). His name is Graham and his screenname is Crackers (Graham Crackers). Anyway, aside from the bad pun, his packs get good reviews. Another member there has the 60L Worksack and loves it. Graham seems really knowledgeable and I bet if you contact him, he could help you pick one. I think the 75L pack has an extension to make it about 90L. 8000ci is something like 110L which is huge.

His site says he's at the OR show now, but will be back soon.

I would NOT choose the Hille. Akto as a winter tent, it is a very poor design for heavy snow regions and more complicated to erect than a Soulu. It is a basic Euro design that IS good for "hill walking"and bike touring, but, NOT repeat NOT, for alpine or wilderness use in Alaska, BC, the Territories and other such places.

You CANNOT go wrong with a Hilleberg dome style tent or an ID MK tent, get the little ID MKI lite if you need the lightest truely functional winter tent, I consider the MKI_XL to be the best choice, overall.

I would not bother with a lighter, smaller pack than a MR G-6000 as you WILL end up using this type of pack in MOST Alaska backpacking, especially winter. Get what really works now and save money in the long run.

Big name, high reputation gear, from ANYONE, REI (or whomever is the latest fad among the trendoids), IS NOT what you want for Alaska or other such regions. Get the proven gear from MR, ID and so forth that those here with such experience suggest and you will be happier and also not waste $$$$ on inadequate stuff. REI IS great, but, they and MEC tend to serve the "average" hiker, in most respects and you simply will need better gear for winter in Alaska, northern BC or the Yukon, IMHO, after having been in these places.

There is a store in Anchorage, called "Barney's"which caters to hunters and they stock Hille., ID and other good stuff. He has his own labeled bags made by ID and can supply an ID winter bag, such as the XPD-II with an Endurance shell and 900 fill option down....THAT is among the very BEST bag choices you could make and I have one made for me by Evan Jones five years ago, that is as fine a bag as I have ever seen, HIGHLY recommended for serious cold weather camping.

Thanks for your thoughts, Tom. I'm 5'7" or so; is that too short for carrying everything on my back? (Assuming you meant height when you said "small," which might be a mistake.) At any rate, a sled seems worth considering. And definitely thanks for the info about Graham. I'll probably email him about his packs, since they look great to me at least.

Kutenay, thanks for the heads up about the Akto. I apologize if I seem stupid; I'm trying to keep the cost down, and what started out looking like a couple hundred bucks is now shaping up to look like a minor fortune. It makes sense since it's my life depanding on this gear, but $2000 to outfit myself is just completely out of my price range. If it's going to be that much, I'm not sure I'm going to be able to do this at all. I guess it's better to not go at all than to go and freeze to death, though....

I'm sorry, but I'm just as confused about the rest. I do realize that REI carries watered-down, commercialized gear for the average person, but are you saying that there is absolutely nothing worth my time there?

I have heard of Barney's Sport Chalet, actually, and I lament daily that their website isn't up yet. Thanks for your thoughts on the sleeping bags; I'll definitely take that into consideration. ...Okay, putting it that way sounds like I don't mean it, but I do.

Forgive my ignorance, but I don't understand why I want 100 L worth of gear. It's not that I don't believe you, but I just can't imagine how I would need that much space. I mean, 100 L is just... HUGE. Could you perhaps enlighten me about just what's going into that and I'm not wearing when I would be carrying the pack?

On the upside, if I get this quality gear and decide to get into mountaineering, I won't have to buy anything new.

Seriously, though, I really appreciate you guys putting up with trying to keep a total newbie out of danger. Thanks for your time.

White Silence,

I have very little experience in really cold weather so I try to refrain from posting on these types of threads.

Just wanted to mention that I am also 5' 7" and I weigh 155. I use a pack dog for a companion, but more importantly to carry some of my stuff. We don't see much snow around here or I would use a sled myself.
I am physically fit and could carry everything myself, but after many years of backpacking I've learned there's nothing wrong with making life easier if you can. Besides I don't have anything to prove, I've already done it. HaHa

You are getting good advise from these guys, I only buy the good stuff nowadays and it is money well spent, does it's job and lasts. Save your money and do it right, you will be glad you did. It took me most of a year to save/pay for my current gear, that was 12 years ago.

Good luck to you!

White Silence

Start at your skin and work out for the clothing, required for the winter weather and nights. When you are hiking/moving you will work up a sweat, you need room for those cloths that you take off. Remember when you stop you will put those things back on. You may need clothes just for around camp, or for sleep wear. Maybe the weather takes a turn for the worst, guess what? You guessed it, more clothing. More importantly you will need the right kinds of clothes. They should not be overly heavy, they should compress or pack well. I mean they should store really small and weigh as little as possible.

Starting out it is easy to choose the less expensive, the bigger, the less functional. Talk to all the outdoor store employs and ask which of the gear they have.

Try going out hiking with others, beg or borrow their gear, until you know what gear you whish to own.

That 100L space can be eaten up pretty quickly with stuff that almost “will do”. Your wallet conversely will become smaller at the same time. Choose carefully, and slowly. It’s cheaper in the long run.

I am 5'10" but I only weigh about 140 at most. I am reasonably fit but carrying 40 or 50 lbs on my back on snowshoes just is too much for me, so that's why I have the sled. It is so much easier on my back for one thing and far less stress on my knees.

Here's a brief list of what I have taken on my short Yosemite trips-keep in mind the temps there are warm during the day-usually above freezing-you see people skiing in t-shirts or light jackets and maybe +10F at night, so much different than AK.
Pack-Kelty lightweight pack-probably about 4000ci. Got it used;
Tent- EMS Pompero (somewhat similar design to a MH Trango Assault)-weighs about 7 lbs, double skin 5 pole design with big vestibule-not the best tent around, but got it cheap;
Bag-+23 rated down bag with MEC overbag and Bibler Winter Bivy-not a setup for subzero weather at all;
Pads-full length Therm-a-Rest and Ridgerest-used one on top of the other;
Stoves-Optimus Nova or Coleman Xtreme, plus Primus Micron canister stove for day hiking; extra fuel bottles and canisters;
Cookkit-small aluminum kit, plus Primus pot that holds the Micron, good for making tea on day hikes;
Ten essentials-all the little stuff-compass, whistle, etc. that you should have on any trip-fits into a fairly small bag;
Misc.- Camera, small tripod, glacier glasses, regular glasses, book, matches, small first aid kit, multi-tool and spares for ski bindings;
Bear canister-holds all my food, mine is made by Bear Vault and looks like a really big pill bottle;
Clothes-
Patagonia Capilene long underwear-midweight top and bottom;
Nylon briefs-2 pair;
Socks-2 lightweight pairs, plus heavier hiking socks;
Down booties;
Pants-Marmot Precip rain pants-full zip and work well as a shell in light conditions;
Jacket-REI rain jacket-fairly light;
Fleece jacket-midweight, I suppose, nothing special;
Down Parka-TNF Nuptse, but I have also taken a TNF Baltoro (now called the Himalayan)which is a real deep winter parka;
Insulated pants-Golite synthetic-only worn at night or when it's really cold (by my standards) and I'm not moving around a lot;
Gloves-various mitts and gloves, including liner gloves;
Hat-Turtlefur beanie, heavy balaclava; baseball hat or Tilley hat for sunny daytime use.
Boots-last time I wore Garmont Excursion ski boots, but when I snowshoed, I wore Sorels;
Skis-Atomic Rainier bc skis with Voile bindings;
Sled-a kid's sled made in Canada with pvc poles that attach to my pack harness with caribiners-made this from plans and pics I saw on the web;
sled bag-really huge duffle bag to hold almost all of this stuff.
Could I take less? No doubt because I see people doing it-using a smaller tent, taking less clothes, no spares and so on, but I'm just not comfortable doing that. Not sure how they do it, really.
The sled does limit how far I can travel because it slows me down considerably, but I'm not going that far so it doesn't bother me.

I notice that there seems to be a fair number of short guys here, I'm one as well, standing about 5'7"to 5'8"in my socks. However, I am big, burly and strong and can carry a heavy pack and did for many years as a part of my chosen employment. One SHOULD carefully ascertain just how much you CAN handle and go from there, not try to be "macho" and thus injure yourself.

So, my point about the larger, 6000 cu. in. packs is largely based on what I have had to do in winter camping here in BC. It is MUCH easier to re-pack your camp each morning with a larger pack as you have not lived until you try to stuff a freezing nylon-shelled sleeping bag into a too-tight backpack in -27*F cold....you will find that you know "words"that are not cool even in logging camps!

The quality of your gear IS FAR MORE important in remote wilderness camping than in other forms of backpacking and $2000.00 is not much when considering what you need, especially if you go solo, which you should NOT do, at least until you have several years experience...I know, my first solo winter camp nearly killed me and only years of experience in cold weather and avalanche country saved my young butt.

You need, IMHO, to start off slowly and build your winter camp as you can afford it. Get your sleeping system, tent and pack and jury-rig some of the less crucial items...I PREFER using the several pieces of Snowpeak Titanium cooking gear and the Snowpeak Litemax stove I have, BUT, I backpacked for over 40 years with far less advanced gear.

You need to spend the most on your BOOTS, PACK and then bag and tent. Used Hillebergs and IDs are actually fairly easy to find and used WM bags also are available. Here is what I would and do choose as a basic winter camp, of the gear I currently own.

Pack-my all in all general duty pack, a 2005 vintage Mystery Ranch BDSB, now called the "Kodiak" with added sidepockets and waistbelt pockets. This is VERY costly, heavy, bombproof and more than you need, I bought it for a series of longer, specialized trips that were cancelled when my wife became very ill. Get a G-6000 and it will be perfect.

Tent-For rainy weather, a Hilleberg Soulu as it is driest to easily and quickly erect. For colder weather, an ID MKI-XL, which is my basic winter tent and perfect for longer trips...you CAN use the lighter MK-I Lite and it is only 3.75 lbs. and will just kick azz on really bad conditions.

Bag-For most winter camping, my Valandre Shocking Blue, an incredible work of functional art and the "best" down bag I have ever had...mine came from a friend in the industry, who is over 6Ft. and is a "long"; after using it, I will ALWAYS use a "long"bag for winter camping as I can keep my boots inside to prevent them freezing. For REALLY cold weather, a custom ID XPDII Himalayan OF with Endurance shell, this weighs 4-9 and is a "broad" style, super comfy for stocky guys and older guys with a bit of gut, but, it's a little shorter and a bit heavier than I prefer to backpack at age 62; it is my main basecamp bag and is perfect for long, really COLD trips.

DO NOT buy a -40*F bag, no matter what some hotshot in a gear store tells you, these are VERY specialized and rather uncomfortable at even 0*F, which is closer to the actual temps. that you will really be camping at.....-40 is just horrible, no matter how tough and experienced you are and VERY few will go out then, all 'net BS aside. I have and will again, IF, I NEEDED to, but, -10 to -20*F is my limit for enjoyable winter camping and that is plenty cold if you are out for 3-5 nights....this is about FUN, not how tough one is.

So, again, buy the good stuff, get each piece as you can and try to find some used gear to start simple, short trips with. Get a copy of "Winter Wise"by Monte Alford of the Yukon, next door, this is one of the two best winter camping-survival books I have ever seen. The other is "Down But Not Out"by the Royal Canadian Airforce and is out of print; my copy was lost in a basement flood. I have the reprint from Paladin Press, ignore it as it is over-priced garbage.

I have worked with RCAF survival instructors, the best in the world at Arctic survival and we Canucks own more Arctic remote, untouched wilderness than anybody ( and the Ruzzkie commies AIN'T getting it, flags at the North Pole notwithstanding) and these guys KNOW their schitt. SO, if you CAN find, "DbutnotO", in a Canadian gov't. printing, GRAB IT.

All for now, take your time and think about what you want to learn and accomplish, it WILL come and so will the highend gear....I grew up poor and I know.

I'll might as well throw my two cents in:

I started winter camping back in 1999 while still living in northeast ohio. I spent most of my weekends down at West Branch State Park camping on the weekends.http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/547460332JRNUaA (I pursued my Winter Camping with singleness of heart, foregoing all things to accomplish the same, even to the point of forsaking girlfriends). Winter camping is all that mattered to me, please bear in mind. The gear I had then was my Diamond Brand Free Spirit 2-person tent; an LL Bean High Camp -20 Degree Mummy Bag (Long); a BIG name brand Therm-A-Rest LE in the long size. Please take note I was simply camping NOT backpacking.

While here in Wisconsin I spent two whole Winters in my tent, almost every night. Here I used mainly ALPS Mountaineering brand gear (tent, mummy bag, etc.)
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2026868860055403717tSDlYd
http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2642135540055403717UlqqNf

So I do have some experience with cold weather camping.

Hope it helps,

Bruce

If I might add something to kutenay's comment about not buying a -40*F sleeping bag... yes, it's true, you probably won't be camping happily at those temps. However, if you are a cold sleeper, it wouldn't be unwise to buy a bag that is a few degrees colder than the coldest temps you'll encounter. Also remember that temp ratings are sometimes optimistic, and are usually estimates. Your body type, activity level, gender, food intake, etc. will all affect your body's tolerance for cold, and thus the required level of insulation.

Try borrowing one or two types of bags to test them out first, if you can, to find out what rating you'll need!

Buy from REI, but don't buy REI brand stuff. REI>E-bay>most else.

So, maybe, buy your clothing from REI--stick with Marmot or MH--and then pick up the MK or Hilleberg on E-bay on the cheap. Try to hit one of REI's garage sales for extra savings.

I agree with the elders here (using the term with the utmost respect) in that you should not skimp out on cold-weather gear. Figure out what is the "best" in your opinion, and try to find that stuff for the cheapest you can, or else it's your arse.