Preceived value

1:41 p.m. on March 3, 2011 (EST)
389 reviewer rep
1,124 forum posts

Ok, ok, I must admit that I am plenty POed.

IMHO GoLites treatment of Gary is inexcusable. But on a resent trip this week I had to bug out early, because of a tent failure. the tent is my TNF Canyonlands.

Earlier this year the clear windows cracked and broke. TNF gave me a new rainfly. Now this is all and good. In fact I was thrilled! I have been out with this tent many time though high winds and driving rains. Never an issue. But this time is was a light soaking rain all day and all night, everyday (3). The seams got soaked and leaked onto my down sleeping bag. I checked out the seams in question. It seems that TNF didnt tape the zipper seams on the rainfly.

Now I have many tents ranging in price from $24.95 - TNF $189 MSRP.. I expect to have to seam seal, and work on the more inexpencive tents. If these tents fail many would say "you get what you pay for".

My question is REALLY?

I have had good costumer service from many "lower end" companies. Just what do these higher dollar tents and gear have over some of the inexpencive gear. Am I paying $100 for a silk screen name?

That being said, I realy do like TNF tent. But now I find that I have to do the same to it as I have to do with my "lower end" gear. did I get what "I paid for"?

I'm doing my best to keep my temper in check here. I'm not trying to blast any company, or persons. Just trying to understand what the preceived value is on some gear. Is the name on the gear that important?

2:21 p.m. on March 3, 2011 (EST)
171 reviewer rep
223 forum posts

Sometimes you just buy/receive a lemon...

Could it be the case?

2:32 p.m. on March 3, 2011 (EST)
389 reviewer rep
1,124 forum posts

I dont understand why I'm so up in arms about this. I thought hard and long before posting. Reading and rereading my post before posting. I'm not upset with my TNF tent as I read the reviews before I bought, and some said that these seams were a weak point. I'm just trying to figure real value Vs Preceived value.

3:18 p.m. on March 3, 2011 (EST)
271 reviewer rep
1,861 forum posts

Mike I think alot of us have had that fustration at times and will in the future.

Now for your well being and I deem you as a craftsmen IE( Seen one of your kites). This is more of a personal observation from a craftsmen because you take pride in quality workmanship and labor.

Let me tell you what I know about name branding first.Please indulge me.1725 is the first company out of Italy to use name branding on bricks.Stll in existance.The basillica in Rome used their bricks.It's a concept for Trademarking a product or service..To be used in a intelectual rights..Money is that game..

Now did you get what you paid for? I wonder the same thing at times when I buy a product..Then the school trained monkey that I am.Remembers Kants theory of phylosyphy...Caveat Emptor( buyer Beware).The manufacturer's are aware of this. Thats why they list restrictions on use and warranty. Yeah we all shop with the emotions and feelings of grandure and the marketing people know it.. I believe I read an article just recently that TNF came up with another line. Why another product line is the one they have defective? So that makes me wonder if we all are jumping through hoops based on a bias we create ourselves. Does this answer your question probably not but it does lead to more open exchange of opinion..

I personally would love to take a tour of a manufacturer from design to testing to Manufactureing to actually see how a product is made for the Outdoors..I also think of when Jeff Loew and Jim Witicker were both product testers for REI and would rate all the gear they sold. Now I hardly know who rates it..

4:23 p.m. on March 3, 2011 (EST)
102 reviewer rep
2,972 forum posts

..I also think of when Jeff Loew and Jim Witicker were both product testers for REI and would rate all the gear they sold. Now I hardly know who rates it..

Sometimes I think the fashion models they hire for their catalog shoots are the test group.  It seems REI is more about style and all about merchandizing nowadays.  I await the press release anouncing the merger with Banana Republic.


5:12 p.m. on March 3, 2011 (EST)
389 reviewer rep
1,124 forum posts

More form, less fuction. Wow, if I buy that, look how good it makes me look. I'm looking very hard at all the gear I replaced last year. You know there wasnt anything wrong with the inexpencive gear I had. But I repaced it with shinner toys that do the samething the older gear did. Feeling like a tool. I'm having a hard time right now coming to grips with this. I'm on a compleat freeze on gear spending.

5:23 p.m. on March 3, 2011 (EST)
271 reviewer rep
1,861 forum posts

Mike please don't beat yourself up.It's not worth the aggravation...I do it on day's at work where we outsource a product to a producer for a client. Every industry does it..they weigh the cost verse liability issue when they produce a product..And I have even bought the shiney new toy to find out it stinks..We all have and knock on wood someone else will in the future..

Whomewrry(Ed) said it right must be the models at times..

6:59 a.m. on March 4, 2011 (EST)
389 reviewer rep
1,124 forum posts

Having vented seems to have helped. thanks for your resonses. I just let some little things build up. In truth I have shave'n better than 10 Lbs off my back with my new gear. Marketing is just so important. Lets face it, without marketing most of use would'nt own half of what we have. :)

8:35 a.m. on March 4, 2011 (EST)
141 reviewer rep
218 forum posts

I have noticed that some of the most expensive tents require you to seam seal before use. I think a great deal of what people call "good" gear is a matter of preception. But, that preception can (and I think usually is) caused by a track record of good performance from a brand in the past. The fact is, most brands do not produce their gear, they design it and farm out the production overseas. They set up standards, but those standards are not always adhered to. Although the cottage industry can have bad products, they can also control their quality better as they design and build their gear. Point is, if a tent cost $100 and another tent cost $300 and they are the same size, weight, materials and made in a country where cheap labor keeps costs down....what is the real difference?

10:57 a.m. on March 4, 2011 (EST)
271 reviewer rep
1,861 forum posts

Robby- Good point is the PP the same? You just thru a great additive to the equation..I couldn't answer that.I acknowledge and agree with the designs are here and the Manufactureing is oversea's..It seems it might be the same manufactureing house constructing different companies products at the same facility..I have never been to china but I did have friends that outsourced there for there for their company at one time and Europe as well. Now the company they did work for is in the toilet for sub standard products...want to guess the four letter companies Name?  product branding can also bite you if your not careful in production and meeting the consumers expectations...

12:17 p.m. on March 4, 2011 (EST)
141 reviewer rep
218 forum posts

I think you are correct that many manufactures produce for several companies. That makes it hard to convince me that the quality of construction is different. Also, some Brands use different manufactures...that would lend itself to tougher quality control.

I own several bags and tents from both high end and low end Brands. All the gear I own performs to my standards (anything that doesn't, I get rid of). I dont see alot of difference in the quality of the same products.

7:51 p.m. on March 4, 2011 (EST)
1,549 reviewer rep
443 forum posts

It appears that the progression of manufacturing technologies, in many cases, has allowed for far better execution on a large volume scale. The things that can be done on a massive scale are nothing short of astounding, and in my experience have narrowed the quality gap between cheapest to most expensive.

I have gear from all realms of perceived quality, and am impressed by the quality that some no-name companies have provided me. I do exhaustive research on a product before I purchase it, and then wait patiently to find the desired item at a significant discount. Paying 1/2 price for a highly rated-respected piece of gear greatly increases it's value IMO.

"you get what you pay for" is a literal phrase...making it a relative one is problematic. If I paid $53 out the door for My Golite Pursuit Pack, and another person paid retail (3x's that amt), and we both get a lot of quality use, durability, and performance out of them, then which one got what they paid for? Both? I say yes.

What do we say then if the one that paid retail for this excellent pack had a buckle failure (reasons not important) but I had no such problems. Who then got what they paid for? Where in the world am I going with this? I'm out.

6:04 p.m. on March 14, 2011 (EDT)
36 reviewer rep
13 forum posts

For what it's worth, my favorite tent is an ALPS Mountaineering Lynx 2. I bought it for $70 or so. It's never leaked and I've never had to seal it. One of the poles broke due to a friend's rough handling. I called ALPS to inquire about buying a replacement and they sent me a new one immediately, free of charge.


Sometimes it seems like we definitely pay for the name.


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