Anyone else soured on the 'hook'n'loop stuff ?

Are we not allowed to say, 'Velcro' here ? (I just did ... now what?)

Anyhow ... I am ambivalent about the stuff.   Works extremely well, for what is is supposed to do ....

However; the annoyances can become a factor for me, when selecting some gear.

First thing that comes to mind, is how it snags fine / close mesh fleece, and technical-fabric garments.

Also, it can lose its effectiveness, by falling apart before the item it is integrated with wears out.   Teva sandals come to mind.

When it attracts foreign material, like sand, dirt, grass, other fine-particles, it looses its effectiveness because its very difficult to remove the foreign material.  The U.S. military is presently slated to replace 'Velcro' on a lot of war-place gear because of complaints in the field (one of which is noise, that probably would not bother us) about it picking-up a lot of sand.

What say you, trailspacers ?

you have made some good observations; for me, it depends on how the hook/loop is used.

applications where it works:

-closure tab over the top end of the zipper on my sleeping bags, and to link the draft collar.  never had a problem.

-hard shell cuffs - can fuzz up the shell material a little, but it's nice to have an easy & secure way to adjust the cuff.

-hard shell rain flaps - used sparingly, it's OK, jackets and pants.  better than snaps, for me.  on hard shells, the hook/loop isn't usually exposed to enough debris to render it ineffective.  at the bottom cuff of rain pants, though, snaps are better due to the risk of mud clogging the hook/loop. 

-backpack torso adjustment: some brands adjust torso length using hook/loop to allow the shoulder harness to move up and down, then re-secure it.  Mystery Ranch and Osprey come to mind.  generally, that means a one-time adjustment so the pack fits you, then leave it alone.  because the hook/loop is behind the back pad, protected from debris and from your clothes, it doesn't tend to snag anything and doesn't lose effectiveness.  for this purpose, i like it a lot, so long as it's sufficiently wide to secure the shoulder harness. 

-gaiters - i'm a little on the fence here, because gaiters get dirty and muddy.  but, the convenience of being able to easily take them on/off with a hook/loop front closure is too tempting.  besides, they don't seem to get sufficiently mucked up to prevent the hook/loop from working.  i have a pair of low REI gaiters that are at least ten years old - the ones i use when i expect really muddy trails - and the wide hook/loop strip along the front remains bombproof after tons of use.  advantage - you can hose them off and throw them in the washer, which does a great job keeping the hook/loop debris-free. 

-not good - water shoes.  too much risk of fouling up the hook/loop closure with sand or mud, and there are better options.  chacos, where they tighten via a slider clip engaging the webbing; or Keens, that usually rely on an elastic or a slider clip. 

-tents - i have used tents that secure the rain fly to the poles, in places, with hook/loop.  it's a pain to fasten/unfasten reaching under the fly.  plastic clips would be a better choice for me. 

-outer parts of the backpack - i agree that if a backpack has a hipbelt that adjusts somehow using hook/loop, it creates a risk of annoying clothing snags if the pack isn't well-designed. 

It doesn't work well on all outer gear in snow.  The snow collects in the hook and loops, sometimes making it almost useless.

Ed

I noticed the same thing....why don't more people say Velcro anymore....even on ads for product "hook and loop" is used.  What gives?

D&G in the Smokys said:

I noticed the same thing....why don't more people say Velcro anymore....even on ads for product "hook and loop" is used.  What gives?

The company that patented Velcro hired lawyers to inform those that used the name, "Velcro" without express  permission, would be sued.

For what, I know not.   Seems pretty stupid to me.   They get all this free publicity.

It has become a 'generic' term, by now.   Kind of like "frigidaire', 'Kleen-eX', 'google', etc.

r2

I pulled this of off  Wikipedia.

"The Velcro brand is an example of a genericized trademark — a brand name that has become the generic term for a type of product. The Velcro company has forbidden its employees to use the term "Velcro",[11] in an effort to stop this. Instead the employees must use the generic terms "hook and loop fastener", "hook tape", or "loop tape". The company is very protective, and refer to their product as "the Velcro brand hook-and-loop fastener". The company publishes detailed trademark guidelines designed to preserve the strength of the Velcro brand.[14]

Besides being used as a generic term for hook and loop fasteners, the word "Velcro" has also become a verb, as in "Velcroed", which means to be attached by Velcro. It has been used as such since approximately 1972."

THis is much the same as had happend to "Jello".   The term jello was at one time applied to all gelatin food products when in fact jello is a single brand name product.

What makes this all the more interesting is after asking there employees not to call it velcro.  I am holding in my hand a piece of unused 2in x 5ft peice of newer unused hook & loop that has the words "velcro" printed all over the  plastic which covers the adhesive back. 

So the employees are forbidden to say the word "velcro", but they print it on their product.  It is a funny funny world.

Thanks, apeman.

(It seems funny, funny to be communicating with an apeman).

r2

I would guess I'm related to the Geico caveman more of less ;-}

I much prefer snaps or buttons to hook/loop.  IMHO hook/loop wears out too fast, is loud, and doesnt hold when you need it too.  Just my experiences though.

cfmiller58 said:

I much prefer snaps or buttons to hook/loop.  IMHO hook/loop wears out too fast, is loud, and doesnt hold when you need it too.  Just my experiences though.

A few companies (Patagonia comes to mind) sometimes use 'mini' plastic snaps (instead of metal).   They work pretty doggone well, in my opinion.

r2

the word "generic" has a very specific usage in trademark law, and it explains why the velcro company has acted aggressively about how their brand name is used.

trademarks (and patents and copyrights) protect a company's intellectual property and are very valuable - a trademark can be used to prevent people from knocking off one's products and stealing the brand name, basically.   if a trademark becomes generic, it is no longer entitled to protection.  if you think about it, people used to refer to photocopying as 'xeroxing' something - same concept.  if a trademark becomes so associated with an item that the public thinks of the item as synonymous with the name, the owner of the trademark loses the right to protect their brand.  (i wouldn't be surprised if xerox took the same action that velcro has done). 

some terms that have become generic: thermos, aspirin (generic in the US, but protected in most other countries in the world by its owner, Bayer), dry ice, escalator, trampoline. 

ps - i'm a lawyer who has done some trademark work.  this post obviously doesn't constitute legal advice.  :)

I've got a 20+ year old pair of OR Croc goretex gaiters, with 1.5" velcro down the front. Pretty early on I added a snap at the bottom to keep the velcro from opening up in the snow. I've also replaced the velcro twice (not too hard), the fastex cam-locks on the calf straps once, and sewn hypalon patches on the inside where the cordura got worn through by ski edges. Maybe time for a new pair?

So, yeah, velcro can be a pain in the snow, but you can work around it, and probably lasts as long or longer than a zipper in this app.

BTW, my spell checker recognizes "velcro", even in lower case :-). (but not fastex...)

i disregarded my own advice on a hike this week along the costa rican shoreline.  because it was so ridiculously hot and humid, i opted for five finger shoes that have a velcro strap across the top of the foot.  i was in and out of muck and sand, and sure enough, when i took them off for a swim, the velcro was all fouled with sand, barely functional.  i managed to clean it out in the ocean without too much trouble. 

a strap with a simple fastex clip or friction clip, like on my chacos, would be better. 

LOVE those Chaco's !

I have a couple pair ... one thru-(big) toe ... and one cross-over (instep) pair.

Only thing ... I wore 'em TOO much last Summer, and into Autumn.   My feet got wider.   Now, my Fabiano's feel tight in the toe-box.

Yogi Robt

I use Velcro when it is a good solution and other fasteners when they are better, stronger, faster, more reliable, etc.

Velcro is DEFINITELY not good in a snow or freezing rain environmemt.

If your Teva's velcro is going try using a stiff short bristled brass brush to clean out and open up the loop portion. Works for me.

Eric

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