Chrysler/GM vs. AIG bailouts?

I can't say that I really agree with any of these bailouts, but what gives with denying a bailout to GM or Chrysler because their plans to become viable were not realistic? Especially when you consider how much we have given to AIG, how many times we gave, and under what circumstances.

I'd love to hear some educated opinions on whether or not we should be bailing out the auto makers and the effect a bankruptcy might have on our economy. Would it be too much to ask that this not become a gripe session?

Even though you started this in the OffTopic section, I'm not sure I want to see space taken up by this topic in an outdoor-oriented website. Yes, most of the population of the US does own stock directly or indirectly (through 401k, 403b, pension funds, mutual funds) and the whole population is affected. But I think there are better forums/websites to discuss this highly politicized, highly controversial topic

dm1333 said:

Would it be too much to ask that this not become a gripe session?

Hmmm...it might be, but I'll be positive and say you can have a go at it, assuming everyone stays civil, polite, constructive, and so on.

I'm going to stay out of this one though.

You don't really want my opinion. I assure thee. I'll raise the roof.

At least this time I'm not the one holding the dynamite.

I would just say that when you (society) travel so far down the wrong road (greed / corruption) there is not always a good solution, or even a solution at all. Obviously my premise is that most of this was caused by greed and corruption, at least at the root of it all, and not by mere global economic circumstance.

Throwing money at it is nothing more than a quick improvised fix that may well be the only thing we can do in the short run.

Trying to regulate this stuff has limited effect since someone always finds a work around. They find a work around because they do not intend to do the right thing to begin with.

The only correct and lasting fix is to raise our kids to be good honest people who truly care about their fellow human as much as they care about themselves and to teach them a great disdain for selfishness and greed, and wrong doing.

Oh.... and for lying too. Anyone catch the congressional hearings? VERY FEW innocent people in the room IMO. I'm especially referring to congress. Both sides of the aisle folks!

In other words, I think too many people are focused on the symptoms and not the true cause.

I do believe we will pull out of this, hopefully wiser, maybe not. But we will of course, pay the price for a very long time and may well have damaged the American economy past the point of being able to pick up were we left off. That sound you hear late at night is the printing pre$$es.

If you guys want to shut the thread down now it wouldn't bother me at all. I just happened to be reading here and listening to the news when the subject came up and thought that it might make for some interesting reading. My intent was never to politicize Trailspace. If I want to observe carnage I can go over to DU or APS.

Don

I will say this: let GM and Chrysler falter. If they cannot compete why should BIG government spend our tax dollars to bail out failing companies?

Who gave this present administration the right to waste our tax dollars on these failing companies..."Change You Can Believe In"...yeah right. Same old corruption and lies if you ask me. Thank God I never voted for that evil devil.

Welfare Government. Just bankrupt the country...

Ok, I'm back to posting about BIG name brand gear. Thanks for listening! LOL!

ministercreek said:

I will say this: let GM and Chrysler falter. If they cannot compete why should BIG government spend our tax dollars to bail out failing companies?

Who gave this present administration the right to waste our tax dollars on these failing companies..."Change You Can Believe In"...yeah right. Same old corruption and lies if you ask me. Thank God I never voted for that evil devil.

Welfare Government. Just bankrupt the country...

Ok, I'm back to posting about BIG name brand gear. Thanks for listening! LOL!

GM was still the largest automaker in the world. Toyota only surpassed them a few months ago, when the economy started to really take a turn for the worse.

When gas hit $4, yes, we started buying fewer SUV/Trucks, but as soon as the gases prices eased sales were back up, although not back to 'normal' of course.

Point is, We (Americans) asked for V8's, and we got them. I myself drive a V8 Jeep, which I absolutely love, BTW. The overhead costs compared to the Japanese automakers can be largely attributed to the ridiculous unions that occupy the industry here, and push costs ever higher.

American automakers are certainly capable of competing, FORD has not received a dime, proving that I was right along that Ford was a better truck than Chevy, a topic that has now been solved (ha! chevy guys).

Might I remind you that Toyota has received several Billion dollars from their government, so using your formula for measuring viability would that not make Ford the company in better shape? It's not, but using your formula it is. Although, Ford should become profitable again somewhere in 2010.

We love to blame the automakers for selling us vehicles we asked for, what hypocrites we are! Truck sales lead car sales!! We need to blame ourselves, mostly at least. GM and Chrysler do/did have their problems, trust me I know, but the mileage properties of their vehicles is our fault, IMAO. Well I know it's mine!

Sorry if you meant "cannot compete" as a whole, not just their products. I assumed you were talking mileage and quality, both of which are close, if not higher than the foreign makers. American car companies really do make a larger number of fuel efficient cars, not to mention that the Ford Hybrid Escape is still the most fuel efficient SUV in the world (at least the last time I checked, a few months ago)

Chrysler/GM vs. AIG Bailouts?

Please let me add my two cents from up here in Canada. I personally disagree with the idea that a company can or should be able to receive a government backed bailout/handout with taxpayers dollars. We in Canada have also helped out the poor fortune 500 companies and it drives me crazy that it occurs.

Having said that, for the economy of a country it is not a really bad thing.
If and that’s the kicker, if the company in question is able to restructure, reorganize and remain as a competitor in the market place then just about everyone wins. The people employed would be able to remain at work, spending their paychecks, Bolstering the economy. The companies that supply goods and services could continue to supply, with their employees earning and spending their paychecks. The spinoff benefits can be amazing. So for the economy yes it can be a good thing.

Would YOU like to be known as the President that closed the doors of FORD Motor Company?

MTB416
As for why one product is more expensive than another, you will have to ask the companies as they are the ones who set their prices. The labour cost is only part of the price. If the laborer earns only a dollar a day he can not spend more than that. If the labourer earns $100 a day who can spend more?

Yes I do work for a company that has a union as part of their work force. I have yet to see a unionized company work in such a fashion that the union asks to decertify.

I do think that most of North America is caught up in this notion that wages must be low so I can make money. One of the many issues with the auto industry is that too many of the executives compensation is far removed from the general consumer. Locally I have seen the owner of a company loose touch with his customers. The usual result is that the company has to close because it charges too much for its products, the customer can not or will not pay the too high price. Sound like the auto industry?

By the way have you bought your cushioned tailgate for your Ford yet?